Support NeoGAF

[Drencrom]

It really is amazing, never have I read something so extensive when it comes to a game and its lore and story.

 

[Edzi]

You guys should check out the Bloodborne Lore thread. The game's plot (and this essay) have been discussed and picked apart there, so it's worth a read to avoid rehashing the same ideas and theories over and over again.

It's also worth noting that you probably shouldn't take the essay as complete gospel. It's a great read and a good resource for connecting a lot of dots, but the author also comes up with some theories that are kinda reaching (though he does a good job of separating the in game lore from his own opinions).

 

[Lime]

I kind of want a Cliff's Notes verson of this.

Remember at the very beginning of Bloodborne, the very first scene, in first person, where you're receiving the blood transfusion, and you see a beast emerge from blood, and the beast touches you, and the beast bursts into flames?

The explanation for it...

SO GOOD

What's the explanation?

 

[Neiteio]

I kind of want a Cliff's Notes verson of this.



What's the explanation?

The impact will be lost without the rest of the essay leading up to it, but the gist of it is you were sick with a low red blood cell count, making your blood "pale" (inspired by a real-life illness from the Victorian era), and when "palebloods" take the infusion of Old Blood they develop an immunity (hence you don't turn) and this is what binds them to Gherman as hunters. The hallucination of the beast emerging from the blood, and burning, is a visualization of your inoculation. A paleblood who goes further and ingests the umbilical cords can "transcend the Hunt" and become immune to the Moon Presence, as well. Since Moon Presence (the personification of the Blood Moon) is the source of the Scourge, it ends the pandemic.

There's a lot of in-game evidence to support this, including the blood itself, "your sickly spirit," etc. It's also suggested that other hunters were bound in this way, namely Eileen and Djurga, who reference the Hunter's Dream, the Doll, etc. I strongly suggest actually reading the thing!

 

[Edzi]

The impact will be lost without the rest of the essay leading up to it, but the gist of it is you were sick with a low red blood cell count, making your blood "pale" (inspired by a real-life illness from the Victorian era), and when "palebloods" take the infusion of Old Blood they develop an immunity (hence you don't turn) and this is what binds them to Gherman as hunters. The hallucination of the beast emerging from the blood, and burning, is a visualization of your inoculation. A paleblood who goes further and ingests the umbilical cords can "transcend the Hunt" and become immune to the Moon Presence, as well. Since Moon Presence (the personification of the Blood Moon) is the source of the Scourge, it ends the pandemic.

There's a lot of in-game evidence to support this, including the blood itself, "your sickly spirit," etc. It's also suggested that other hunters were bound in this way, namely Eileen and Djurga, who reference the Hunter's Dream, the Doll, etc. I strongly suggest actually reading the thing!

Theories like this are what I meant by the author reaching. Sure, it may work, but it's by no means stated at all by the game itself.

 

[Neiteio]

You guys should check out the Bloodborne Lore thread. The game's plot (and this essay) have been discussed and picked apart there, so it's worth a read to avoid rehashing the same ideas and theories over and over again.

It's also worth noting that you probably shouldn't take the essay as complete gospel. It's a great read and a good resource for connecting a lot of dots, but the author also comes up with some theories that are kinda reaching (though he does a good job of separating the in game lore from his own opinions).

True, but like you say, the author separates the lore from his speculation. He even encourages us to come up with our own theories.

That being said, his speculation seems reasonable. My only critique (on first reading) is the bit about Moon Presence manipulating the player to kill rival gods. I'm not sure there's enough to support that idea.

 

[BriGuy]

Amazing effort, but the fact that almost none of this is readily apparent to the average player means that the game's narrative is largely a failure. Just my opinion of course.

 

[BabyFaceKillah]

Gonna wait for the audiobook.
So vaati

.

 

[Edzi]

Amazing effort, but the fact that almost none of this is readily apparent to the average player means that the game's narrative is largely a failure. Just my opinion of course.

It's all there in the game if you want to look for it, it's just completely optional. All of the concrete stuff that's mentioned in the essay are directly lifted from inside the game, and that stuff alone is enough to get the basic gist of the world and story.

 

[Klossen]

Amazing effort, but the fact that almost none of this is readily apparent to the average player means that the game's narrative is largely a failure. Just my opinion of course.

Bloodborne isn't intended for the average player.

 

[The Xtortionist]

True, but like you say, the author separates the lore from his speculation. He even encourages us to come up with our own theories.

That being said, his speculation seems reasonable. My only critique (on first reading) is the bit about Moon Presence manipulating the player to kill rival gods. I'm not sure there's enough to support that idea.

I suppose because the hunt "ends" after killing the Wet Nurse, and presumably Mergo along with her. Even after beating Rom, you get the message "Seek the nightmare newborn".

Otherwise...¯\_(&#12484_/¯

 

[Lexad]

Wow can't imagine writing 89 pages. Can't wait to read this

 

[Neiteio]

Theories like this are what I meant by the author reaching. Sure, it may work, but it's by no means stated at all by the game itself.

That part is prefaced as speculation. He quotes NPCs like the Doll noting you were ill, and the game begins with a transfusion of healing blood, from a character whose VA is listed in the credits as "Blood Minister." It's a theory that seems to fit, but you're right it's not as airtight as other stuff. I feel the items in the OP are better examples of "pure lore," but I thought his alternate take on "palebloods" was really interesting.

 

[Arkeband]

I read this a few months ago and Vaati already ripped it off in one of his own videos.

It's pretty awesome.

 

[Neiteio]

I suppose because the hunt "ends" after killing the Wet Nurse, and presumably Mergo along with her. Even after beating Rom, you get the message "Seek the nightmare newborn".

Otherwise...¯\_(&#12484_/¯

That might be it.

On a side note, "Seek the Nightmare Newborn" is interesting because Mergo, at least in human terms, appears to already be dead. The Wet Nurse appears to be a guardian Great One.

 

[Magic Mushroom]

Amazing effort, but the fact that almost none of this is readily apparent to the average player means that the game's narrative is largely a failure. Just my opinion of course.

Nah. It's more like the average player is lazy and needs a spoon-fed story, preferably told through lenghty cut-scenes.

Bloodborne is like archeology. The more you dig, the more you find. It's way more rewarding.

 

[Arkeband]

Amazing effort, but the fact that almost none of this is readily apparent to the average player means that the game's narrative is largely a failure. Just my opinion of course.

And if they went and hid it in data logs you'd fit right in in the Type 0 gripe thread.

Games that don't force feed you the story are not bad, or failures. They're just different.

 

[Cess007]

Remember at the very beginning of Bloodborne, the very first scene, in first person, where you're receiving the blood transfusion, and you see a beast emerge from blood, and the beast touches you, and the beast bursts into flames?

The explanation for it...

SO GOOD

Okey,now i'm interested on reading this!

 

[UnluckyKate]

You know the singing brains?

Not brains. Cobbled-together Messengers.

And the body is the Doll's body.

Think about it.

Fuuuuuuuuu—

wat

WAT ?

I refuse to believe this

 

[Newtype-001]

Theories like this are what I meant by the author reaching. Sure, it may work, but it's by no means stated at all by the game itself.

What follows is purely my own interpretation and belief based on the evidence I have gathered. Do not consider any of this as solid fact. Instead, use it as my interpretation, so that you can gather your own beliefs.

^that is before everytime he speculates.

 

[Neiteio]

Amazing effort, but the fact that almost none of this is readily apparent to the average player means that the game's narrative is largely a failure. Just my opinion of course.

It's not a failure. It's successfully giving us what we've come to love. Part of the appeal of the Souls game (and their ilk) is that story is like a mystery you piece together with the rest of the community. The dots are all there, waiting to be connected, but it requires players to read item descriptions, carefully observe NPC behavior, note item placements, what characters are wearing and what items they use, and even note changes in voice actors to fully comprehend the story (or at least, come closer to the "Eldritch Truth").

 

[NeoFaff]

I have to applaud whoever manages to make 89 pages out of a half page plot.

 

[Mr. Nice_Guy]

It's also a testament to how observant someone has to be to get the full effect. For example, I don't think I would've noticed how Rom bleeds different colors when hit in one place vs. another, and what this means. The whole concept of the red blood, the serum, and the white blood... My head is still spinning from that one. Miyazaki, you brilliant bastard.

Holy, I never noticed that either but you're wright. Can't wait to dig into this. Lore, put it in my veins now.

 

[The Xtortionist]

That might be it.

On a side note, "Seek the Nightmare Newborn" is interesting because Mergo, at least in human terms, appears to already be dead. The Wet Nurse appears to be a guardian Great One.

This is my line of thinking:

-The infant we hear crying throughout the game is Mergo (easier to hear with higher insight)

-Mergo is formless just like his father Oedon, who impregnated Queen Yharnam (Oedon and Yharnam's..."affair" is indicated through various item descriptions)

-We are told to seek the nightmare (Great One) newborn, which sends us in the direction of...

-The area named "Mergo's Loft"

-Queen Yharnam's ghostly form still seems broken up about the whole baby-stealing thing, indicating that Mergo is still alive.

-In the Wet Nurse's arena, we approach a baby carriage apparently containing a crying baby (Mergo). When we get close, the Wet Nurse swoops in and envelopes the carriage. I interpret this as the Nurse "absorbing" the formless Mergo into her body for protection.

-The music track "Lullaby for Mergo" plays during the Nurse fight.

-When the Wet Nurse dies, we hear Mergo crying for a few seconds until it suddenly stops and the words NIGHTMARE SLAIN appear on the screen.

-The hunt concludes.

Maybe some holes in there, but it makes sense to me

 

[DarkKyo]

Amazing effort, but the fact that almost none of this is readily apparent to the average player means that the game's narrative is largely a failure. Just my opinion of course.

Or maybe it's brilliant, depending on how you look at it.

 

[Edzi]

That part is prefaced as speculation. He quotes NPCs like the Doll noting you were ill, and the game begins with a transfusion of healing blood, from a character whose VA is listed in the credits as "Blood Minister." It's a theory that seems to fit, but you're right it's not as airtight as other stuff. I feel the items in the OP are better examples of "pure lore," but I thought his alternate take on "palebloods" was really interesting.

Yeah, I just wasn't really a fan of his speculation and don't think it makes the most sense. Still, the bulk of the essay is fantastic and really helped me put my thoughts together since it does a great job of putting together the in game item descriptions and dialogue in an organized and easy to read way.

 

[Neiteio]

This is my line of thinking:

-The infant we hear crying throughout the game is Mergo (easier to hear with higher insight)

-Mergo is formless just like his father Oedon, who impregnated Queen Yharnam (Oedon and Yharnam's..."affair" is indicated through various item descriptions)

-We are told to seek the nightmare (Great One) newborn, which sends us in the direction of...

-The area named "Mergo's Loft"

-Queen Yharnam's ghostly form still seems broken up about the whole baby-stealing thing, indicating that Mergo is still alive.

-In the Wet Nurse's arena, we approach a baby carriage apparently containing a crying baby (Mergo). When we get close, the Wet Nurse swoops in and envelopes the carriage. I interpret this as the Nurse "absorbing" the formless Mergo into her body for protection.

-The music track "Lullaby for Mergo" plays during the Nurse fight.

-When the Wet Nurse dies, we hear Mergo crying for a few seconds until it suddenly stops and the words NIGHTMARE SLAIN appear on the screen.

-The hunt concludes.

Maybe some holes in there, but it makes sense to me

That seems like a reasonable alternate theory. Apparently you can use the Music Box from the Father G fight in that area and make the baby giggle. The writer of the essay believes the crying is Oedon (said to be formless, save for voice) and that this is his amusement at an attempt to commune with him.

 

[Newtype-001]

Miyazaki is truely my favourite VG director of all time. Theres just no one like him.

 

[Jotaka]

There a pdf for this?

Its google docs. Try reload the page to show the TOP menu. From there you can access the option to download as PDF, rtf, odt, txt etc.

Try reload because the file is very popular and the top menu may not be displayed.

I upload here if you want http://www.filedropper.com/thepalebloodhunt

 

[Edzi]

^that is before everytime he speculates.

Yeah, I know. I said how I appreciated how he made that much clear. I just think some of the speculation reaches a bit too far so that it's barely based on what you can find in the game.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

THEMING INCEPTION.

Amazing effort, but the fact that almost none of this is readily apparent to the average player means that the game's narrative is largely a failure. Just my opinion of course.

Grant us eyes. Grant us eyes.

^^^

 

[Magic Mushroom]

I have to applaud whoever manages to make 89 pages out of a half page plot.

Half page? Hell no. Read it and be amazed at how deep the rabbit hole goes.

 

[Neiteio]

I have to applaud whoever manages to make 89 pages out of a half page plot.

Half-page plot? No no no. If anything, after reading this essay, one has to imagine that Miyazaki had tons and tons of whiteboards with intricate story webs of how everything fits together.

 

[KodaRuss]

I gotta play this game again soon. One of the best ever.

 

[Kyleripman]

Looks cool, thanks for posting. Hoping this will motivate me to finish the game. For some reason this is the first Souls game that I haven't been totally absorbed by.

 

[BriGuy]

It's not a failure. It's successfully giving us what we've come to love. Part of the appeal of the Souls game (and their ilk) is that story is like a mystery you piece together with the rest of the community.

I get all that, but I think BB takes the concept to the extreme. Even if I didn't know or understand the extreme minutia of DeS or DaS, I had a general idea of what was going on and my role in the game world.

Bloodborne starts as a glorified werewolf hunting game, then "oh shit, Lovecraftian cosmic horrors!" now you're in a dream in a pocket dimension, time to perform a 4th trimester abortion while the world descends into madness below. By the end, I had no idea what was going on or why.

 

[The Xtortionist]

I mean, any plot can be overly simplified. Dark Souls is basically "break out of jail, ring two bells, kill a pair of assholes, kill four lord assholes, kill the final asshole, light a bonfire or walk away". It's the meaning of those events that warrant pages and pages of analysis.

 

[Lingitiz]

I get all that, but I think BB takes the concept to the extreme. Even if I didn't know or understand the extreme minutia of DeS or DaS, I had a general idea of what was going on and my role in the game world.

Bloodborne starts as a glorified werewolf hunting game, then "oh shit, Lovecraftian cosmic horrors!" now you're in a dream in a pocket dimension, time to perform a 4th trimester abortion while the world descends into madness below. By the end, I had no idea what was going on or why.

Yeah BB definitely went wayyyyy down the route of obscurity and mystery, for better or worse. I can definitely see how people would either really love it or it would do nothing for them.

The true ending in particular fell really flat for me. I kind of had no idea what I was really doing or why I was doing it in the second half of the game. And then

Spoiler

I turned into a slug?

. I had people watching me play the ending and I had a really difficult time trying to explain what was happening in a few sentences. And honestly, that's totally fine. BB is an experimental Souls spiritual successor. It should be weird and obscure as hell.

It's pretty awesome that the community is doing it's thing and parsing out what a lot of the stuff in the game means. But I did appreciate how Dark Souls towed the line by still being fairly comprehensible without diving into the explanations online.

 

[The Xtortionist]

I get all that, but I think BB takes the concept to the extreme. Even if I didn't know or understand the extreme minutia of DeS or DaS, I had a general idea of what was going on and my role in the game world.

Bloodborne starts as a glorified werewolf hunting game, then "oh shit, Lovecraftian cosmic horrors!" now you're in a dream in a pocket dimension, time to perform a 4th trimester abortion while the world descends into madness below. By the end, I had no idea what was going on or why.

A lot of clarity comes from talking to Gilbert. At first, he tells you to seek the Grand Cathedral in order to find whatever paleblood is. Then I believes he tells you to head to Byrgenwerth, since that's where the church originated. Killing Rom in Byrgenwerth, the player receives a message to kill a nightmare newborn, and along the way there are numerous messages on the ground that talk about stopping evil rituals and blood moons and stuff.

So I guess the plot flow is

-Wake up confused and seeking paleblood

-Seek paleblood at the Grand Cathedral

-No dice. Seek paleblood at Byrgenwerth instead.

-LOVECRAFTIAN TWIST. Kill the newborn (presumably Mergo) and stop the ritual, or we're all doomed.

-Ritual stopped, hunt's over. Make your choice with Gehrman.

All that being said, neglecting to check in with Gilbert can obliterate any sense of direction the player has.

 

[SteveWinwood]

all I gathered is he either needs to write more succinctly or hire an editor

you don't need 89 pages to discuss bloodborne

phd dissertations have 100X the value and quality of discussion and a tenth of the size

 

[Arkeband]

all I gathered is he either needs to write more succinctly or hire an editor

you don't need 89 pages to discuss bloodborne

phd dissertations have 100X the value and quality of discussion and a tenth of the size

I'm sure you read it.

 

[SteveWinwood]

I'm sure you read it.

you want me to go through the first few pages with a red pen?

 

[SamusPrime]

all I gathered is he either needs to write more succinctly or hire an editor

you don't need 89 pages to discuss bloodborne

phd dissertations have 100X the value and quality of discussion and a tenth of the size

It's a passionate fan ranting about the game in a not-for-profit format, he doesn't need to do anything or owes anyone anything.

 

[Magic Mushroom]

you want me to go through the first few pages with a red pen?

Do write one yourself that is better then, I'd love to read it.

It's so easy to dismiss something that clearly had a lot of time, love and thought poured into it.

 

[JudgmentJay]

all I gathered is he either needs to write more succinctly or hire an editor

you don't need 89 pages to discuss bloodborne

phd dissertations have 100X the value and quality of discussion and a tenth of the size

 

[SteveWinwood]

It's a passionate fan ranting about the game in a not-for-profit format, he doesn't need to do anything or owes anyone anything.

he can do whatever he wants

I'm still free to say it's unnecessarily long winded and poorly constructed

Do write one yourself that is better then, I'd love to read it.

It's so easy to dismiss something that clearly had a lot of time, love and thought poured into it.

I'm not dismissing anything. I'm saying it could be better easily if he was a decent writer.

I'm sure there is quality there, it's just obfuscated in it's current form and as a basic courtesy to the people who want to absorb his content he should make it clear, succinct, and well written

 

[robertlebrone]

I'll check this out later when I feel like reading something.

 

[DNAbro]

Finished reading it. Didn't even know some of the concrete facts that the story presents to you. Game has a surprisingly good narrative hidden in the lore.

As said above this essay could have been written a bit better and made more concise.

 

[SamusPrime]

There seems to be a lot of skepticism regarding the Grand Cathedral skull. I always thought it was pretty clear that it's Laurence's head. I forgot what item it is and so on, but somehow before you get to this point ypu are informed of the fact that the highest ranking clerics turned into the foulest beasts or something along the lines. I took it as touching his skull = seeing his memories.

 

[JudgmentJay]

There seems to be a lot of skepticism regarding the Grand Cathedral skull. I always thought it was pretty clear that it's Laurence's head. I forgot what item it is and so on, but somehow before you get to this point ypu are informed of the fact that the highest ranking clerics turned into the foulest beasts or something along the lines. I took it as touching his skull = seeing his memories.

Miyazaki confirmed it was Laurence's skull in the interview in the Future Press guide.