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[Ichabod]

Moral of my story: don't get married

That's a whole other can of worms all together but at this point in my life when I think of marriage I always think of a quote I saw somewhere that said something along the lines of "Marriage is betting someone half your shit that you'll love them forever."

 

[Resilient]

I don't agree that anyone had a moral imperative to wait until a divorce was finalized. She attempted to end the relationship, he went nuts and assaulted her, and then the legal system failed by giving him a suspended sentence and keeping him in the picture. Her safety would obviously be in jeopardy again if she made another attempt at separation/divorce, so at that point she ignored the piece of paper and started seeing someone else. Totally reasonable.

This is my main gripe with what happened here.

 

[Chie Satonaka]

This. She took her chances and wanted to actually you know, be happy in her life.

I guess I'm having a problem with the idea of someone who's already in a violent relationship increasing the possibility of violence both to herself and to a third person.

I'm not going to pretend to understand all the intricacies of that whole thing, and I won't disagree that she has an emotional need. But there had to be a better way here.

All three parties are at fault.

 

[shanshan310]

I don't agree that anyone had a moral imperative to wait until a divorce was finalized. She attempted to end the relationship, he went nuts and assaulted her, and then the legal system failed by giving him a suspended sentence and keeping him in the picture. Her safety would obviously be in jeopardy again if she made another attempt at separation/divorce, so at that point she ignored the piece of paper and started seeing someone else. Totally reasonable.

Agreed.

 

[Dude Abides]

Do you know why it's blowing your mind? It's because NOBODY is saying murder is right. We're saying we don't want to get involved with married people because of the potential problems like this.

Keen insight indeed that getting involved with married people can lead to problems. What would we do without this CommonSense wisdom?

 

[pants]

Damn. Who bodyslams another person outside of a playground :|

 

[Devolution]

I don't agree that anyone had a moral imperative to wait until a divorce was finalized. She attempted to end the relationship, he went nuts and assaulted her, and then the legal system failed by giving him a suspended sentence and keeping him in the picture. Her safety would obviously be in jeopardy again if she made another attempt at separation/divorce, so at that point she ignored the piece of paper and started seeing someone else. Totally reasonable.

This. Thank you.

 

[Laughing Banana]

I don't agree that anyone had a moral imperative to wait until a divorce was finalized. She attempted to end the relationship, he went nuts and assaulted her, and then the legal system failed by giving him a suspended sentence and keeping him in the picture. Her safety would obviously be in jeopardy again if she made another attempt at separation/divorce, so at that point she ignored the piece of paper and started seeing someone else. Totally reasonable.

In this sort of case, perhaps.

But not all people who cheated/involved in adultery are doing it because the person he/she currently involved in in a relationship is an unstable person with murderous impulse. Perfectly good/decent people can sometimes got cheated too.

So "I don't agree that anyone had a moral imperative to wait until a divorce was finalized" won't work on all cases, all instances of cheating/adultery. People do often participate in adultery because they are, ah, what one qualify as an asshole.

 

[Devolution]

I guess I'm having a problem with the idea of someone who's already in a violent relationship increasing the possibility of violence both to herself and to a third person.

I'm not going to pretend to understand all the intricacies of that whole thing, and I won't disagree that she has an emotional need. But there had to be a better way here.

All three parties are at fault.

What was she supposed to do. How about you and the people who think like you actually map this out.

Or you could see how conservatives force women to "just deal" with batterers. Hello this is the importance of VAWA right here.

 

[AlexMogil]

Jesus gods, I've been cheated on by my wife and never thought MURDER MURDER MURDER. Angry? Yeah, sad, depressed, let's keep going, but MURDER?

That poor woman. She made some bad choices and she was also trapped. She has a list of "She shouldn't have _____" But wow.

Additionally, two wrongs don't make a right.

 

[User 100115]

This. Thank you.

Yeah, Evilore is dropping enough truth in this thread that I think I am done now lol. No one is listening to me anyhow.

 

[Devolution]

Yeah, Evilore is dropping enough truth in this thread that I think I am done now lol. No one is listening to me anyhow.

It's almost like VAWA has a point to it despite the conservative fuckstains in congress trying to derail it or minimize what it does. Here's a prime example.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

What was she supposed to do. How about you and the people who think like you actually map this out.

A lot of people aren't taking into consideration the history of this particular case and are speaking generally. All the wrong parts of the story are bolded/quoted in the OP it seems.

 

[bangai-o]

was it an elbow drop?

 

[Devolution]

A lot of people aren't taking into consideration the history of this particular case and are speaking generally. All the wrong parts of the story are bolded/quoted in the OP it seems.

Or they've never actually dealt with a situation in which someone has a violent partner. She sought comfort in the arms of someone else and she's awful for it. Jesus.

 

[ShadyLurker]

I thought victim blaming was more common in sexual assault but apparently people do the same for murder now as well.

 

[soul creator]

I sometimes feel like society collectively needs a "how to deal with sexual jealousy" course, heh.

 

[Wool]

He locked her up when she asked for a divorce. That totally doesn't suggest longer running control issues. Not at all.

I'm not defending him for locking her up, but the article says:

After telling her husband she no longer loved him and demanding he move out...

That sounds much much worse than "asking for a divorce". Finding out that the woman you love and have four kids with cheated on you, and now she wants you to move out would be an infuriating situation.


Edit: Maybe I misread it, did she tell him things were over and then start seeing the other guy, or was she cheating on him beforehand? Nothing wrong with her if it's the former.

 

[Chie Satonaka]

What was she supposed to do. How about you and the people who think like you actually map this out.

Or you could see how conservatives force women to "just deal" with batterers. Hello this is the importance of VAWA right here.

I don't know. I don't know australian law. I don't know the process of getting out of abusive relationships. I've never been in one. I do think that I wouldn't involve someone else in my relationship when there's a possibility of violence. My point is that cheating wasn't the answer, and the outcome of this case reinforces that.

 

[Devolution]

I sometimes feel like society collectively needs a "how to deal with sexual jealousy" course, heh.

Or some people could not beat their partners and we could not sit here on moral high horses bemoaning the fact that a victim of violence sought comfort in the arms of another.

I don't know. I don't know australian law. I don't know the process of getting out of abusive relationships. I've never been in one. I do think that I wouldn't involve someone else in my relationship when there's a possibility of violence. My point is that cheating wasn't the answer, and the outcome of this case reinforces that.

What is the answer? She should just suffer under her husband?

 

[ghostmind]

I don't agree that anyone had a moral imperative to wait until a divorce was finalized. She attempted to end the relationship, he went nuts and assaulted her, and then the legal system failed by giving him a suspended sentence and keeping him in the picture. Her safety would obviously be in jeopardy again if she made another attempt at separation/divorce, so at that point she ignored the piece of paper and started seeing someone else. Totally reasonable.

Did she attempt to end the relationship first, or did she have the affair, then tell her husband that she did not love him and demand that he move out?

After murdering Mr Moresco on October 30, 2011, Budimir had driven to Broken Hill in NSW before calling his wife, Jana, the next day to tell her he got rid of Mr Moresco so she would come back to him.

They had been married since 1992 and had four children aged from eight to 15 before she began an affair with Mr Moresco in August 2011.

After telling her husband she no longer loved him and demanding he move out, Budimir had slapped his wife several times across the face before locking her in a room.

The way the article is written, it appears that she started the affair first.


And because of the actions of all parties involved, these are who will suffer the most:

four children aged from eight to 15

 

[Halcyon]

Jesus gods, I've been cheated on by my wife and never thought MURDER MURDER MURDER. Angry? Yeah, sad, depressed, let's keep going, but MURDER?

That poor woman. She made some bad choices and she was also trapped.

Additionally, two wrongs don't make a right.

I just think that throughput the history of man if there were a list of things that were most likely to get someone murdered then adultery would be somewhere near the top.

I'm not saying its right but I think its a common enough side effect that Moses had to write it on a brick.

That being said the guy in this story is clearly scum. The woman shouldn't have involved the new guy though because she probably knew there would be a chance of violence with her ex.

 

[Blasty]

Did she attempt to end the relationship first, or did she have the affair, then tell her husband that she did not love him and demand that he move out?





The way the article is written, it appears that she started the affair first.

That's whats confusing me.

 

[Ashodin]

Or they've never actually dealt with a situation in which someone has a violent partner. She sought comfort in the arms of someone else and she's awful for it. Jesus.

This. A lot of people here seem to be pushing for the concept of "she's an evil person, the two men who were involved were justified in what they did because of what she did" and that's a horrible thing to rationalize.

Man A is mad and insanely jealous to the point of violence.

Woman A is a most likely loving person. Gets beat by husband, husband comes back anyway, she wants out of a loveless relationship, takes chance by meeting Man B

Man B is the guy caught in the crossfire. He met Woman A, maybe even saw her plight (or never knew, who knows) and wanted to help her be happy. It's not known whether he did it out of his own personal reasons, but they were described as lovers, not as a fling, or any other description that means "one-time deal".

Some people seem to think because the woman was the one still in the marriage, that she should have waited. She most likely didn't have the time (as she would either get beaten to death or go insane around the husband).

 

[Valnen]

Except the person who replied to that exact post you quoted and said yeah, it is logical for that happen.

It's logical, not right. It's obviously legally and morally wrong to actually murder someone.

 

[Skeyser]

apparently this is a picture of the three : husband, wife and dead guy

 

[Spring-Loaded]

Or they've never actually dealt with a situation in which someone has a violent partner. She sought comfort in the arms of someone else and she's awful for it. Jesus.

Or they didn't read the whole story and are speaking about the situation as if it was just her cheating. People need to make clear they're speaking about cheating in general if that's what they want to discuss.

 

[Resilient]

A lot of people aren't taking into consideration the history of this particular case and are speaking generally. All the wrong parts of the story are bolded/quoted in the OP it seems.

The entire bottom part would need to be bolded, so I left it unbolded.

 

[Cow Mengde]

I don't agree that anyone had a moral imperative to wait until a divorce was finalized. She attempted to end the relationship, he went nuts and assaulted her, and then the legal system failed by giving him a suspended sentence and keeping him in the picture. Her safety would obviously be in jeopardy again if she made another attempt at separation/divorce, so at that point she ignored the piece of paper and started seeing someone else. Totally reasonable.

I think there are 2 different arguments going on in this thread.

1. Those of us who rather not cheat because we don't trust people enough to risk potential disaster all for the sake of getting laid.

2. Why this women cheated and if she is in the right.

 

[ghostmind]

apparently this is a picture of the three : husband, wife and dead guy

So they all knew each other (and were friendly to some extent)... this is just getting worse.

 

[Chie Satonaka]

What is the answer? She should just suffer under her husband?

I think I made it pretty clear in my previous post that I don't have an answer as to how she could have escaped that relationship. I don't know. Can you tell me how her cheating (and someone dying in the process) was the right course of action?

 

[Spring-Loaded]

The entire bottom part would need to be bolded, so I left it unbolded.

What about the thread title?

 

[Blasty]

Did it happen like this...

She cheats on him > She tells him she wants a divorce > He beats her > He kills her lover.

...or this

He is abusive> She wants a divorce > He beats her > She finds a new lover > He murders his wife's lover.

It's really important.

 

[Shambles]

Just to be clear -- speaking for myself only -- I am not at all condoning this man's behavior. I responded specifically because of how the OP is framed: the wording implies the problem with sleeping with a married woman is that the husband might be crazy and could attack you.

It gets to the very heart of the discussion where religious people can't understand how atheists have morals -- the implication being that the only reason people don't rape and pillage is that they're afraid of retribution from God. That the reason to not perpetually cheat on your wife is that God may send you to hell, and not because it's simply a mean, selfish thing to do.

Good people don't avoid or dismiss behaviors because they're afraid of being punished, they dismiss them because they don't want to do them in the first place. From an ethical perspective I don't think of a person who walks around all day desperately wanting to cheat on his wife with every woman he sees but who is afraid of retribution as a "good person."

I'm confused. Are you just trying to say that 'some' religious people think that the only reason why they have to do good things is because of damnation, or do you really think that the entire basis for morals in religion is based off of fear? Far more religious people would agree with your last statement than disagree.

 

[User 100115]

It's logical, not right. It's obviously legally and morally wrong to actually murder someone.

I don't know how to put this any other way but....

It's not in any way logical to go from 'my wife slept with someone else' to murder.

 

[ghostmind]

I think I made it pretty clear in my previous post that I don't have an answer as to how she could have escaped that relationship. I don't know. Can you tell me how her cheating (and someone dying in the process) was the right course of action?

In most cases it would involve filing for divorce and getting a restraining order against the husband at the same time, which should have been granted if there were a history of violence, or even a suspicion of one. However, I don't know if Australian law allows for this, or if the courts screwed up here.

 

[Devolution]

I don't know how to put this any other way but....

It's not in any way logical to go from 'my wife slept with someone else' to murder.

It is if you think your wife is property and someone else stole her.

 

[User 100115]

It is if you think your wife is property and someone else stole her.

Apparently, yeah.

 

[valkillmore]

So you don't sleep with a married woman because when you inevitably confront her lover at his place of work and power-slam his face into the ground, resulting in his death, you will end up serving time in prison. Got it.

 

[Halcyon]

It is if you think your wife is property and someone else stole her.

People that are married a long time and have kids share a deep emotional connection. Its not about property its about love commitment and happiness. Family. Their whole world.


If you're not married or don't have kids you have no concept of what you are talking about.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

It is if you think your wife is property and someone else stole her.

I don't have any skin in this game, but are we perhaps strawmanning it up here? I may have misread, but is anyone genuinely saying this?

All the people I've seen in this thread who are placing blame on the woman of this story are doing some combination of the following:

• Are placing partial blame on her for cheating since they believe cheating itself is wrong
  
• Refraining from reading the whole story and are ignorant of the reasons why she wanted to leave him
  
• Talking purely about cheating, but trying to stay on topic

EDIT: ^And then there's that guy

 

[Devolution]

People that are married a long time and have kids share a deep emotional connection. Its not about property its about love commitment and happiness. Family. Their whole world.


If you're not married or don't have kids you have no concept of what you are talking about.

Oh don't bother with this shit plenty of people get divorced because of adultery and no one ends up murdered.

 

[Chie Satonaka]

I was just about to ask where and why "Your wife is your property" ended up in this discussion, but I was beaten to the punch.

 

[Surface of Me]

I don't have any skin in this game, but are we perhaps strawmanning it up here? I may have misread, but is anyone genuinely saying this?

All the people I've seen in this thread who are placing blame on the woman of this story are doing some combination of the following:

• Are placing partial blame on her for cheating since they believe cheating itself is wrong
  
• Refraining from reading the whole story and are ignorant of the reasons why she wanted to leave him
  
• Talking purely about cheating, but trying to stay on topic

EDIT: ^And then there's that guy

Yeah, this thread is really a mess of worms.

I dont condone murder. I dont condone cheating. I'm hesitant to call what the woman in the story did as cheating, since she had tried for divorce and to get him out of the picture, but his delusions and anger trapped her in. A partnership is a two way street.

I think what the people saying "this is why you dont sleep with a married woman" are trying to say is that you open yourself up to violence when you do it. It isn't right that the person cheated on will resort to violence, but it is entirely a possibility in this world. Acknowledging something that can happen is not the same as condoning it.

 

[Halcyon]

Oh don't bother with this shit plenty of people get divorced because of adultery and no one ends up murdered.

And yet I'm sure its a much higher percentage of murders than because someone left the toilet seat up.


I'm making comments based on general human behavior.

I don't even know what you're arguing.

 

[MaddenNFL64]

What I don't get is... why at the dudes house? Why not bring his wife to your house?

I mean, cmon.

 

[Laughing Banana]

It is if you think your wife is property and someone else stole her.

Not speaking about this case in particular but in general:

I think if someone is agreeing to marry with another person, that someone is agreeing to form a commitment with that person. Of course no one is a property of anyone in the sense that they are an "object" like a car or a bike, but shouldn't you agree that that commitment at the very least should be honored if both parties agreed to it in the first place?

Or even after such commitment is in place people can still be free of fooling around?

 

[BadAss2961]

apparently this is a picture of the three : husband, wife and dead guy

Damn... Only makes it worse if the husband was cool with the guy she moved on with.

Not defending the guy at all, but that's never a great idea. IT BURNS.

 

[Timedog]

apparently this is a picture of the three : husband, wife and dead guy

Husband looks pretty beefmacked.

 

[Resilient]

What about the thread title?

Dunno, why do some threads start with G/A/F? If you're trying deduce how I feel about the story based on the article, you should probably stop. I've made my opinion clear in the thread.