Devolution
Member
I think if someone is trapped in an abusive relationship it's ridiculously easy for sheltered people to pass judgment on them finding happiness elsewhere. That's what I think.
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This is why you should never sleep with a married woman
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I think if someone is trapped in an abusive relationship it's ridiculously easy for sheltered people to pass judgment on them finding happiness elsewhere. That's what I think.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
That's why I said that I am *not* talking about this particular case. In this particular case, I understand why she did what she did, considering the fact that her husband seem to be an unstable, abusive person.
It's just that, the "a wife is not a husband's property" line that you mentioned, in my experience is often cited by those who are participating in adultery even if the person getting cheated on is decent, respectable, or all-in-all good individual. That the agreed commitment made between the person who is cheating and the person he/she cheated on shouldn't be at the very least appreciated, that it shouldn't have any meaning whatsoever, especially by the other person who participate in the adultery/cheating. I disagree with this notion.
I am simply on the opinion that having a 100% opinion for these kind of things are not right (not this case but the whole cheating is bad cheating is okay debate.) Some cases cheating cannot be justified; some cases why it happens can at least be understood.
shanshan310
Member
How did this thread end up full of "I'm older/ more experienced so I win" arguments?
perfectchaos007
Member
Like others before me have mentioned, did the husband find out his wife was cheating on him and THEN he went abusive/psycho? Or was he psycho/abusive BEFORE he found out his wife was cheating on him. Its actually a crucial detail because finding out your spouse cheated on you can turn cause someone to become psycho
Halcyon
Member
The article reads that the abuse started after she revealed the affair. He might have been a decent husband that cracked psychologically from betrayal.
Again not condoning anything but people do crazy shit when emotions are involved.
Maybe he was abusive the whole time and she couldn't get out. Its not clear
Hydranockz
Member
Am I missing something or was there no divorce actually filed for? Did this guy even have a history of domestic violence prior to when she wanted to break it off? The article states that she only said she no longer loved him and demanded he move out. It also states that it was only then when the husband snapped and hit her and falsely imprisoned her.
Aren't the claims that she was seeking refuge in this other man just a tad unfounded? Let me be clear; The husband snapped and should absolutely be held accountable for killing the other guy. It just doesn't sound to me as though she ever filed for a divorce. The article highlighting how she demanded he move out is weird as well.
Relationships/marriages feel like trucks. You start slow and build up speed over time and if you need to stop, you ently apply the brakes. It seems to me like this relationship jackknifed. There is nothing wrong with having to stop the truck so I am not suggesting the wife was at fault for not loving him. It feels like a very instictive reaction to slam on the brakes when you see something on the road ahead but that doesn't mean you slam the other guy.
Aren't the claims that she was seeking refuge in this other man just a tad unfounded? Let me be clear; The husband snapped and should absolutely be held accountable for killing the other guy. It just doesn't sound to me as though she ever filed for a divorce. The article highlighting how she demanded he move out is weird as well.
Relationships/marriages feel like trucks. You start slow and build up speed over time and if you need to stop, you ently apply the brakes. It seems to me like this relationship jackknifed. There is nothing wrong with having to stop the truck so I am not suggesting the wife was at fault for not loving him. It feels like a very instictive reaction to slam on the brakes when you see something on the road ahead but that doesn't mean you slam the other guy.
freenudemacusers
Member
I'm married (5 years) and have a child (2 years). Someone please inform me how much input I am allowed to offer in this thread thanks in advance.
derivative
Banned
So this is what happened to the gaffer who got with the Korean woman?
Halcyon
Member
It has nothing to do with that. People were saying how does wife cheating on you--->murder.
If have no experience with that then you can't have a fully informed opinion. Marriage kids divorce buying a house etc are all considered the most major of life events. They carry a lot of weight and have deep and profound emotions connecting them that you can only understand by going through them.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
apparently this is a picture of the three : husband, wife and dead guy
That's a pretty shitty move by the little guy (and wife) if they all knew eachother, seems like the husband was a cool guy from this pic, but looks are deceiving...
Reminds me of the time when i always saw a guy i knew from school getting all romantic with a hot blonde housewife at a gym we used to go, she always reciprocated him, suddenly some day the guy came to the gym with a black eye to work out and didn't even crossed eyes with the woman.
Devolution
Member
Normal people just don't beat their partners when infidelity comes up. Sorry. This half ass defense of this guy is pretty damn sad.
lol
Yes, they should honor the commitment, and technically they are free to fool around but most people agree it's not something ethical one would do if they're married. My opinion is that the most sensible thing to do is for the person being cheated on to file divorce as a way to punish the cheater's actions, getting violent in a case like this is not justifiable because the punishment far exceeds the offense.
I know the question wasn't directed at me but it felt appropriate to respond since I was the one who brought up the whole ownership thing.
Spring-Loaded
Member
Also, for those who are aware that she was trying to get away from a violent relationship but are still saying she's at fault, I imagine they're trying to say it's like leaving your wallet sitting out. I should be able to leave my wallet on a table in a public place, leave, then come back 10 minutes later to find it there or at a reception desk. That won't always happen though. Chances are someone will run off with it and I have to hold on like En Vogue to my belongings because there are bad people out there.
This woman should not have had to be in the position she was in. her "cheating" is completely understandable, especially because of the husband's sentence getting suspended. She should not have had to worry about her husband coming after her or this other guy. She felt her only option was this. However, that doesn't mean she did the right thing. The law failed her, but she should contacted the police again, tried to get a restraining order, something without risking provoking her insane husband. She should not have to, but that could've circumvented this situation.
Of course it's easy for us to judge. But just because something is understandable, does not make it okay; if someone wants to call out an understandable, yet wrong action, then so be it. It's naive to so staunchly believe otherwise.
I don't care what anyone here thinks about this. I was just wondering why you'd make it at all misleading. Was it to take a jab at those who defend people who defend those who resort to violence in these situations?
This woman should not have had to be in the position she was in. her "cheating" is completely understandable, especially because of the husband's sentence getting suspended. She should not have had to worry about her husband coming after her or this other guy. She felt her only option was this. However, that doesn't mean she did the right thing. The law failed her, but she should contacted the police again, tried to get a restraining order, something without risking provoking her insane husband. She should not have to, but that could've circumvented this situation.
Of course it's easy for us to judge. But just because something is understandable, does not make it okay; if someone wants to call out an understandable, yet wrong action, then so be it. It's naive to so staunchly believe otherwise.
I don't care what anyone here thinks about this. I was just wondering why you'd make it at all misleading. Was it to take a jab at those who defend people who defend those who resort to violence in these situations?
I don't think anyone is defending the husband, they're just saying the woman was not the saint you are making her out to be. If she was cheating on him with their mutual friend before she told him things were over then that's a pretty strong breach of trust with someone you married and had 4 kids with.
Dude weren't you the same guy whining in a gun law thread? So you can condone cold blood murder but have issue with law abiding citizens bearing arms?
Halcyon
Member
The article says she told him about the affair and he slapped her and locked her in a room. I'm thinking 4 or 5 out of ten partners would have some sort of reaction with that news.
You keep saying I'm defending him. I'm saying that stuff like this is going to happen based on human behavior.
perfectchaos007
Member
Again, my former dentist was the sweetest lady, and great friends with my family. Then one day she caught her husband alongside his mistress and ran over him 3 times with her Mercedes. Previously non-violent/sane individuals CAN become violent solely from situations like this. Saying this guy was violent towards her before he found out about her other partner is still speculation at this point.
soul creator
Member
that's where my comment about "we should have a class on how to deal with sexual jealousy" comes into play.
After all, we go through life and get lied to/betrayed about random shit all the time. Why does this particular type of lie/betrayal often inspire violence, and why do people supposedly "understand" why it happens.
Is it as biological as we like to pretend it is? Or is this just a cultural artifact from a society that places sexual jealousy above other emotions? That's what I'm curious about.
She may have been non violent, but she may have been very unstable, thousands of people get cheated on everyday.
Chie Satonaka
Member
Teehee.
So, did you actually have something to contribute to this discussion? If so, I'd suggest classes in reading comprehension:
Not condoning murder. I said that he took a chance. It's nice to be remembered, though! Thanks!
Read your last sentence again and you'll see you're looking far too into the thread title.
From what I understand, the husband locked up and beat the wife following her asking for a divorce/wanting to see another man. She chose to see the second man instead, which lead to his murder.
Halcyon
Member
I don't know. Its not just about sex I think. Its biological for sure as it can be uncontrollable. I think humans have always survived based on their family unit. It is the most important aspect to many peoples lives. We raise our young for 18ish years. It requires commitment and trust.
As for labeling it sexual jealousy I don't think 'I have a new mate and I want you out of the picture' can be defined as jealous.
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
Seriously, what the fuck are you talking about?
Teehee.
So, did you actually have something to contribute to this discussion? If so, I'd suggest classes in reading comprehension:
Not condoning murder. I said that he took a chance. It's nice to be remembered, though! Thanks!
Sounds like condoning to me..... but who gives a shit he will spend 16 years of his life in a box over hurt feelings. no one wins, dudes should smarten up.
Chie Satonaka
Member
empty vessel
Member
I was born sleeping with a married woman.
News articles are not written chronologically. They're a series of expanding summaries. The confusing part is that the "I want to move out" assault is subsequent to the description of the affair in the article, but that doesn't mean anything one way or another, and it reads to me like the next stage of specificity in the article rather than as part of a sequence of events.
The two dates given are of the beginning of the affair and the murder, two months apart. The date of the assault isn't given, but the husband was indicted, tried (unless guilty plea), convicted, and sentenced for the assault prior to the murder, which would normally not happen within two months of a felony taking place, thereby likely placing the assault prior to the beginning of the affair in the timeline.
Can't know for sure based on the article, but that's the basis for my assumption.
The two dates given are of the beginning of the affair and the murder, two months apart. The date of the assault isn't given, but the husband was indicted, tried (unless guilty plea), convicted, and sentenced for the assault prior to the murder, which would normally not happen within two months of a felony taking place, thereby likely placing the assault prior to the beginning of the affair in the timeline.
Can't know for sure based on the article, but that's the basis for my assumption.
Spring-Loaded
Member
It's got to be a mixture of both. There's something called "sperm competition," which describes how males of a species will try to make sure their genetic code is based along before others. That page includes details about how a male will try to "win" against another's sperm:
So this drive to get one's genetic code to"win," and keep a mate is inherent to most life forms. I'd imagine that latent instinct is still pretty powerful/
Then of course we have the society's notion a man's value is determined by sexual/romantic prowess, which can be undermined by infidelity. It's common for people to judge the cheatee as being weak/inferior to the cheater. It seems like a "chicken or the egg," situation.
Ninja Scooter
Member
What makes anyone think that a divorce would have deterred this crazy asshole from murdering her or her new boyfriend. Every keeps saying "she should have waited until she was divorced!!!" As if that would have mattered to a wack job willing to murder over this.
Devolution
Member
Because they have no experience in dealing with obsessive violent spouses/exes.
Halcyon
Member
The judges comments seem fairly forgiving despite not really being able to legally do much about it. I'm wondering if more of the full story came out during the proceedings because the article reads like 'judge: I understand you were not in a rational mindset because you are a family man and weren't dealing well with infidelity'
Its either a tale of shithead abusive husband driving his wife away and cold blooded murder, or regular guy destroyed by selfish cheating wife and lost his mind/cold blooded murder.
favouriteflavour
Member
You can't cheat on someone if you asked for a divorce. One guy is crazy, another guy is dead and everyone lost out. What a fucking waste.
Chie Satonaka
Member
It's kind of a hypothetical, but my issue is that I don't like cheaters, and I don't think it's okay.
Since that isn't what happened, why would we discuss it?
soul creator
Member
It's interesting that we often say it's not about sex, even though the primary reason for the jealousy (especially the violent type) is "my partner had sex with someone else". Seems like a contradiction. Sure, people don't like the lying part of it, but people lie to each other in plenty of other things. But only primarily when sex is involved does it elevate people to the level of violent rage.
People get mad at other lies in a relationship, I agree, but rarely do things become as dramatic as they do when it comes to sex.
But according to most people, it's not just "commitment" that's important. It's sexual commitment. After all, this is usually in the context of sexually monogamous relationships.
Since most people don't pursue open relationships, and lots of people instantly get divorced/break up after sexual flings, it does seem that sexual commitment overrides all the other types of bonds in a relationship. That's the part that always seems weird to me (especially when we simultaneously claim that "there are more important things in a relationship than just sex")
I guess I wonder why the immediate assumption when it comes to infidelity is that they "want you out of the picture". I mean, sure, someone could very well want you out of the picture, and that obviously does happen, but that can happen with or without an affair.
I suppose I'm always curious as to why sexual betrayal is the one thing we "understand" violent jealousy and anger with. When other types of betrayal don't inspire the same feelings.
Spring-Loaded said:
Heh, I kinda agree. I think that notion of "possession" in a monogamous relationship (not literal possession, but often hinted at when it comes to sexuality) and masculinity is what often amps up these types of situations
"Why you messing with my man/woman!?"
Ninja Scooter
Member
I don't like bad drivers. Doesn't mean I want them beaten to death. 100% of the blame in this situation goes on the crazy asshole who killed another human being. Outside of self defense there is no excuse for that, sorry. Sorry that I'm not willing to give his crazy ass the benefit of the doubt that a legal divorce would have made it all better.
That's what I was thinking. Lot of people in here saying he was inherently crazy. I get the feeling all this happening kind of ruined him and he didn't know how to deal with it - so unfortunately he went with violence. This happens a lot. Sometimes they don't do anything, sometimes they are driven to booze and drugs, sometimes their is suicide involved, and in this case there is murder.
dead souls
Member
A-fucking-men. Some of the posts in this thread are disgusting.
Ninja Scooter
Member
So next time somebody snaps because they got fired or got kicked out of school and it "ruins" them and they go on a shooting spree, I get the feeling the thread won't play out quite like this one.
Devolution
Member
Yup. You and Lore pretty much captured my thoughts perfectly.
It's so true though. Can't believe people defending this shit or laying the blame on her when it's apparent she's dealing with a violent psychotic husband.
Count Dookkake
Member
If you have any defense for this you might as well be in favor of honor killings.
soul creator
Member
Do you think this is something we can change as a society (from adjusting attitudes towards sex, for example)? Or are we doomed to our apparently biological jealous urges, and some of us will unfortunately just snap sometimes at the mere sight of our partner having sex with someone else, and there's no way around that?
I noticed you mentioned the "he didn't know how to deal with it". I wonder if that's something that we can change, as a society.
LaserBuddha
Member
Some of it is biologically ingrained I reckon, though it also involves these social constructs about pride and machismo. That's not to say we couldn't change it anyway, but we're talking about adopting some crazy meditation regimen or mood-affecting drugs, because you're talking about a different world than this one.
Chie Satonaka
Member
It's interesting. Why are people so willing to give one party the benefit of the doubt, but not the other?
I'll speak for myself. I'm not giving ANY party the benefit of the doubt. I'm saying that all three parties involved in this situation did something wrong. All three of them have a part to play in an unfortunate end.
Halcyon
Member
I'm only coming from the sorta loving person who is cheated on perspective on this but you'd have to remove grief from the emotional spectrum. The feeling isn't much different than a loved one getting killed. Its the same sense of loss. In books based on infidelity some people actually find being a widow almost easier because you know your significant other loved you till the end as opposed to hurting you and then not being around.
To the people from the abused in a relationship angle in this thread I understand that view as well.
I'm not sure what you're getting at. Clarify?
I dunno. It feels like an endless loop really, because him not knowing how to deal with it may have been part of his biological nature. How can society stop somebody from "snapping"? I think that there will always be people who just "snap" like this and it's not something that can be prevented. I want to blame the justice system here for failing the first time, but I'm conflicted because I'm not sure what else they could have done without being too drastic.
RiccochetJ
Gold Member
I think violent jealousy will remain. Doesn't matter the relationship. Guy-Girl, Guy-Guy, Girl-Girl. At our biological level we are a violent species. We are capable of horrible things and I'm sure that crimes of passion will continue until we're extinct unless we figure out how to genetically modify that part out of us.
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