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This scene in GTA5 is pretty disturbing and controversial [spoiler]
- Thread starter Lime
- Start date
I only think that we should be more responsible about it now. (See Last of Us)
People do not play GTA for the character development or screen direction...it always was about violent criminals and whores. For me it's high time for the series to evolve if it really is targeting 'mature adults' (as some claim).
Different people play GTA for different reasons.
BigTnaples
Todd Howard's Secret GAF Account
Didn't look at the spoiler because I just started the game. But saying something is controversial doesn't make it so.
This game let you comit mass murder on an infinite amount of innocent NPC's if you so desire. Literally nothing posted in the OP could make it any more "disturbing" or "controversial".
Ridiculous.
This game let you comit mass murder on an infinite amount of innocent NPC's if you so desire. Literally nothing posted in the OP could make it any more "disturbing" or "controversial".
Ridiculous.
I played them for their incredible atmosphere, the joy of exploration, and the fun, memorable characters. I also enjoyed the stories in San Andreas and IV.
If you can't see the difference, I don't what to say. Gaming is not movies or TV shows. It is an interactive medium. You are being rewarded for torturing someone. You are penalized for not torturing someone.
If Mad Men had an overt message being sent that being a misogynistic asshole was a good thing, you would have a point. But it does not. Leave that to Girls Gone Wild, which gets its share of criticism as well.
Excellent!
Love stuff like this. Pushing boundaries is what it's all about.
I understand (but don't agree with) them not adding kids, but torturing someone sounds really fun and I'm not even joking here.
Now if they can get back to the violence of Manhunt, I will love them forever.
Only thing I'd change is maybe giving you the choice of who to torture. Would be cool if you could just pick and abduct people in the street
Love stuff like this. Pushing boundaries is what it's all about.
I understand (but don't agree with) them not adding kids, but torturing someone sounds really fun and I'm not even joking here.
Now if they can get back to the violence of Manhunt, I will love them forever.
Only thing I'd change is maybe giving you the choice of who to torture. Would be cool if you could just pick and abduct people in the street
Modern AAA gaming.
Wow. Never thought GAFfers would be this bothered by it. But yes, scene is disturbing and one of the reasons I never liked the GTA series. I mean, doing immoral things just because you can get away with it in a game environment? Not my cup of tea.
Edit: Jesus, im starting to sound like those con-violent videogame parents. Still, torture scene could have been accomplished with simple cutscenes, no need to force the player to make that decision. Kind of reminds me of that CoD MW2 mission infinity ward gave you the option to skip because it was considered morally sensitive.
Edit: Jesus, im starting to sound like those con-violent videogame parents. Still, torture scene could have been accomplished with simple cutscenes, no need to force the player to make that decision. Kind of reminds me of that CoD MW2 mission infinity ward gave you the option to skip because it was considered morally sensitive.
Exactly. Graphics get better and so should the violence.
I'd actually love a Manhunt 3.
Messofanego
Banned
It's too bad the Housers used a controversial topic just for shock value and then nothing is made of it later on.
If there is an issue with this (not saying specifically if there is or isn't) being an a piece of entertainment than the question has to be raised about a huge percentage of what is produced as entertainment across all mediums.
TBH although it's hardly pleasant I really can't take it seriously due to the GTA link - i.e. I just can't take GTA seriously. The game would probably be better without it from the perspective of tone/approach as it is out of kilter with much of the rest of the game - but I wouldn't remove it "just because". Despite all the outrage GTA attracts I would argue it's actually hardly outrageous at all in context to other more genuinely shocking material and media. GTA is really all posturing and puppy dog eagerness to have naughty fun by and large and it shows in how most people approach it.
I found the torture in TLOU much more unpleasant and that was just via a cut-scene although it was totally valid within context of the game. Never mind say watching it in a film like Zero Dark Thirty.
In context within GTA it's just too cartoonish no matter how much they play it semi-serious - no matter what Rockstar think they don't really have a vehicle that allows this to be approached well within the broader mechanics of a GTA game. I do kind of love Houser and the team's enthusiasm for what they do but I've yet to see anything in a GTA game that doesn't feel ripped right out of a film or TV show or book in terms of narrative or characters. Not to say they shouldn't keep upping the ante - they are pretty good at characters and dialogue within the limits imposed by their own game structure - but let's not really think GTA V has anything over other media dealing with stuff like this far better in context.
I'm not overly keen on this kind of gameplay myself, but I'd never back censoring stuff like this - at most I'd question access to minors and better control of how and when parents allow early access to such material (because despite all the ratings systems in the world appropriate material for a kid depends very much on the individual kid and their environment and parents)
Still - interesting to note some GAFers are getting their kicks out of it. Better than drowning kittens I suppose!
TBH although it's hardly pleasant I really can't take it seriously due to the GTA link - i.e. I just can't take GTA seriously. The game would probably be better without it from the perspective of tone/approach as it is out of kilter with much of the rest of the game - but I wouldn't remove it "just because". Despite all the outrage GTA attracts I would argue it's actually hardly outrageous at all in context to other more genuinely shocking material and media. GTA is really all posturing and puppy dog eagerness to have naughty fun by and large and it shows in how most people approach it.
I found the torture in TLOU much more unpleasant and that was just via a cut-scene although it was totally valid within context of the game. Never mind say watching it in a film like Zero Dark Thirty.
In context within GTA it's just too cartoonish no matter how much they play it semi-serious - no matter what Rockstar think they don't really have a vehicle that allows this to be approached well within the broader mechanics of a GTA game. I do kind of love Houser and the team's enthusiasm for what they do but I've yet to see anything in a GTA game that doesn't feel ripped right out of a film or TV show or book in terms of narrative or characters. Not to say they shouldn't keep upping the ante - they are pretty good at characters and dialogue within the limits imposed by their own game structure - but let's not really think GTA V has anything over other media dealing with stuff like this far better in context.
I'm not overly keen on this kind of gameplay myself, but I'd never back censoring stuff like this - at most I'd question access to minors and better control of how and when parents allow early access to such material (because despite all the ratings systems in the world appropriate material for a kid depends very much on the individual kid and their environment and parents)
Still - interesting to note some GAFers are getting their kicks out of it. Better than drowning kittens I suppose!
I'm sure you are not alone in that - in many ways Gta games are great/the best. Is all the violence/criminals/whores or more so the way they are presented a bit distracting? For me yes and it is actually lowering my enjoyment. Are those things in the game to enrich the story or is it a form of a Dickensian social commentary, a satire? For me calling it that it is only a way to justify their overwhelming presence in the game. A funny reference to current events/problems here and there does not make it art. And that is, more or less, all I wanted to say...
Omnistalgic
Member
the closer we get to realism, the less this argument will work my friend. We're getting close.
This guy gets it!
not sure if serious? There is nothing trivial about rape/torture, even if it was played out with two stick figures? my goodness, this thread's remarks are astounding.
I assure you they're are people who won't be bothered by it at all, but I agree, to "enjoy" a scene like that is a tad worrying lol....still, violence is so prevalent its very easily ignored particularly in games. So it's one thing for the scene not to bother you, it's another for the scene to be enjoyable.
You can stomach it...but you didn't enjoy it. I think that's the what he was trying to point out. I agree as well...it should make you cringe, not grit your teeth and act out the motion of pulling our dentures. yet, the tone of this thread is leading me to think some are actually responding that way.
ding ding ding...you're the man...and with that I can take my leave. I was starting to get dissapointed with reading the comments tbh. It's not about what I can stomach and what bothers me, but for some of this stuff to just not bother ppl on some type of morale level (regardless of it you can personally handle it or not, I know we're all violence desensitized) is a bit sad. It won't make you do anything or act anyway differently, I just think it says something about your character what you do in a play ground, virtual or not. good post man...that's why I'm picking up gta5 as well though. The silly stuff hopefully won't detract from the experience too much.
I hear what you're saying. That just because something is satire doesn't make it art. Well I don't really want to walk into the never ending abyss that is a "...but is it art?" discussion (I find them boring anyway), but I have to say, I think it's weird to say you find the criminals and such in GTA distracting, when it's a series that revolves around the criminal underworld. Feels like saying you'd like Dragon Age more if it weren't for all of that silly magic, or Mass Effect if it didn't insist on setting things on foreign planets.
And those elements in GTA do enrich the story, and can be satirical. I don't say that to justify their presence, because I don't think their presence for the most part needs to be "justified", in the same way I don't feel that Dragon Age needs to justify the inclusion of wood elves in its narrative.
Anyway, I don't have much to say about the scene in question, because I'd really much rather experience it in-game. From what little I watched, the scene certainly felt unsettling.
100% serious.
I didn't even complete GTAIV. I just drove around killing people. Killed thousands.
I still remember in Vice City I raked up about 5k kills. Majority of them were civilians.
Hopefully GTAV has the stat tracker. Haven't brought it yet
Regarding the "satire" argument: It's not satire if it doesn't challenge that which it claims to parody. Based on the description in the article, one might argue that the presentation and treatment of torture aren't sufficiently challenging torture in terms of labelling this satire.
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
Just finished this scene actually. It's pretty brutal, but it is a game and the "reason" Trevor goes along with it fits his character as being crazy and unpredictable, but none of them really have a choice. I felt terrible for the guy afterwards though, even with it being a game.
D
Deleted member 10571
Unconfirmed Member
Gotta love US GAF for finding this prelonged torture scene A-OK, but saying about some nipples "I didn't think Rockstar would go THAT far" (in the OT) 
And no, this isn't meant offensive in any way, it just makes me chuckle everytime something like that happens.
And no, this isn't meant offensive in any way, it just makes me chuckle everytime something like that happens.
Beermeister
Banned
It's just a game.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Why do people do this? I mean seriously... how hard can it be to read his post and calmly disagree and rebut the points you disagree with, instead of completely distorting his argument as to make it ridiculous and unrecognizable? I hate when people do that. It's rude. It's not even about my own post but that kind of shit pisses me off. If the post was tl;dr then at least have the decency to not reply to it.
=\
Yeah, some of those satire claims seem tenuous at best, really. Though I have not seen the scene in question and don't plan to as I hate all GTA games, so I could give it the benefit of doubt, but from what some reviewers have said, it's not even close to being actual satire.
Do you have an actual point?
Darko
Member
waterboarding is fun.
perfectchaos007
Member
This thread reminds me, what the hell happened to Jack Thompson? I remember when he was public enemy #1 with gamers, and GTA was the franchise he criticized the most. I haven't heard a peep from the guy in years.
Matrix XII
Member
I agree actually. As I was replaying gta iv recently I actually realized that I wasn't having fun playing it. I just got tired of the senseless killing and being a scumbag. Now gta 5 seems to take this to another level. I've owned most of the gta games in the past but I think I'm done with them now. I don't have a problem with cod or other shooting games but there's just something that feels wrong to me about these games. I know I'm in the minority here with this opinion though lol
Nico_D
Member
While the sniping setting based on the information gotten was pretty good and interesting, the torture and violence part is what originally turned me off of the GTA franchise. Didn't like it in Vice City (which was otherwise a very good game), didn't like it in GTA IV (which wasn't) and don't like it in V. As I've seen the trend, I'll probably won't be playing this. Looks like same old. And people complain Mario don't change.
Is bigger map with more irrelevant activities an improvement?
Whoever enjoys GTA, may do so freely. No problem with me.
Is bigger map with more irrelevant activities an improvement?
Whoever enjoys GTA, may do so freely. No problem with me.
eyeball_kid
Member
It seems like Rockstar is trying to touch on issues which it just doesn't have the writing chops to tackle, and so we get tone deaf scenes like this. Or maybe the developers are just so desensitized by working on these games so long that they think a torture scene is just for laughs. Either way, it's a missed opportunity, the same way that Watch Dogs takes the troubling issues surrounding western nation surveillance states and turns it into GTA with a magic smartphone.
Played a little GTA last night as left feeling a little disturbed. Of course there was just random fuckery, launching yourself at pedestrians, knocking them down. shooting randomly, causing general mayhem. The whole thing left a bit of a bad taste in my mouth.
But I actually applaud them for trying something like this. It's raised the bar for the game a little in my eyes.
The only problem is, how many people play the game for the story? Who will get to see it? I'd guess GTA has one of the lowest completion averages of any game out there*.
*May or may not be hyperbole.
But I actually applaud them for trying something like this. It's raised the bar for the game a little in my eyes.
The only problem is, how many people play the game for the story? Who will get to see it? I'd guess GTA has one of the lowest completion averages of any game out there*.
*May or may not be hyperbole.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
I actually close my eyes for any scene like that in movies or jump a few paragraphs ahead if its a book. I guess you can't do that in GTA if you're required to do a QTE with it.
NinjamicWZ
Banned
It's not real.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
daninthemix
Member
Depends on what you mean. No one is actually being tortured, but we are actually taking in images of torture, and the effect that has on the mind may be, respectfully, beyond your knowledge of neuroscience (and mine).
dapperbandit
Banned
Eh I find torture scenes in movies difficult to watch, I got through this okay but I don't think it was necessary.
It would have made more sense to do it if it was a major plot point, with a major character. But there's really not a lot of context given for this. The person isn't important and there's not a whole lot of gravity to the situation that demands it.
If it was in there to convince you Trevor is a messed up person, that had already been conveyed in Trevor's previous missions and cutscenes.
So in the end it's a casual bit of controversy thrown in.
It would have made more sense to do it if it was a major plot point, with a major character. But there's really not a lot of context given for this. The person isn't important and there's not a whole lot of gravity to the situation that demands it.
If it was in there to convince you Trevor is a messed up person, that had already been conveyed in Trevor's previous missions and cutscenes.
So in the end it's a casual bit of controversy thrown in.
Coffee Dog
Banned
Just popped in to this thread to say that I just beat this mission and it was so damn preachy with its anti torture sentiment it was ridiculous. No subtlety at all.
Its distracting how suddenly in the middle of all trevors goofy shenanigans it throws in a hamfisted politcal mission. It reminds me of a "very special episode" of some shitty sitcom.
Edit:
Its point is to make you feel sickened and uncomfortable. Its to show torture is wrong, and on top of that, trevor has a fucking monologue at the end of the mission where he lays out in very clear terms why torture is wrong.
Given that so many people in this thread missed the point of this mission despite it being extremely blatant to the point of explaining itself, I dont think I can insult R*'s lack of subtelty. :/
Edit 2:
Are you purposefully ignoring that at the end of the mission trevor breaks the dude out after his torture and goes on a rant where he says "torture is wrong because..." ? I mean, i just cant believe that peoplw would say that the game is pro torture when it literally says that torture is wrong to your face.
Its distracting how suddenly in the middle of all trevors goofy shenanigans it throws in a hamfisted politcal mission. It reminds me of a "very special episode" of some shitty sitcom.
Edit:
Its point is to make you feel sickened and uncomfortable. Its to show torture is wrong, and on top of that, trevor has a fucking monologue at the end of the mission where he lays out in very clear terms why torture is wrong.
Given that so many people in this thread missed the point of this mission despite it being extremely blatant to the point of explaining itself, I dont think I can insult R*'s lack of subtelty. :/
Edit 2:
Are you purposefully ignoring that at the end of the mission trevor breaks the dude out after his torture and goes on a rant where he says "torture is wrong because..." ? I mean, i just cant believe that peoplw would say that the game is pro torture when it literally says that torture is wrong to your face.
storafötter
Member
Didn't look real to me like films make it seems. It just looks dated so it is hard to feel disturbed by it.
dakeedskee
Banned
I'm still considering that option. Haven't unwrapped it and might send it back to the distributor.
bearlabored
Member
Dunno, i think this scene is ok, wanna talk about torture for government? Go and watch 24.
In my opinion much worse was first introductory scene of Trevor:
1) Sex with drug addict.
2) Cold blooded murder of her lover (main character from last game - so impact is much powerful)
3) Mass murder of bikers.
4) And second mass murder of bikers.
After that I don't really want to play as Trevor anymore.
In my opinion much worse was first introductory scene of Trevor:
1) Sex with drug addict.
2) Cold blooded murder of her lover (main character from last game - so impact is much powerful)
3) Mass murder of bikers.
4) And second mass murder of bikers.
After that I don't really want to play as Trevor anymore.
PlumCantaloupe
Member
Interesting place to draw the line.
Jewologist
Banned
Metal Gear Solid has had a torture minigame or scene in at least three of its games. Why is it all of sudden a problem now?
Remachinate
Member
I haven't gotten far enough to be introduced to Trevor yet, but I can't help but notice that, based on your description of him, he sounds like simply a narrative embodiment of the GTA series' violent freeform gameplay. Rather than pretending to have conflicted feelings about his actions like the series' other protagonists, he embraces the same psychopathic behavior that players of the series always have. Interesting that narrative alignment with this sort of gameplay is what finally causes discomfort with it.
