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[icecream]

B. The game didn't sell good at either systems

C. The 360 had about what 5 times more consoles sold then the PS3 at that time?

Isn't that kind of, the point when it comes to determining platform choices? No matter why it sells more, if it sells, it's an opportunity.

 

[Whoaness]

How isn't it "relative information" it's a statement saying that I everything I referred to was comparing the two consoles same lifespans.

I even implied it in the starting sentence of the post.

None of those things change the fact that the PS3 is abysmal compared to what the PS2 had in it's first year in the quality games arena.

"And that doesn't change the fact that the PS2 will probably have a FAR superior line-up then the PS3." implies a new aw **** grammar.

There you go again. Abysmal? I have a lot more PS3 games than I did for my first year of PS2 games, and PS3's first year isn't even up yet. You obviously overlook the quality of the current PS3 titles. They are certainly NOT abysmal. In fact, they are comparable against 360's first year of games (Wii games don't shout quality so I left it out).

 

[KiticanaX]

Isn't that kind of, the point when it comes to determining platform choices? No matter why it sells more, if it sells, it's an opportunity.

So a developer and publisher would rather release a game on a platform that will sell far less then another platform?
:?

 

[OnWarmerMusic]

I'm still probably going to get my hands on a hard copy, I have a soft spot for excellent game art.

Nice find! I think that's probably fine, there are a few scans in the official thread as well. Seems (though you've probably already found this) that the book was a JP pre-order bonus, so it might be hard to come by.

 

[KiticanaX]

"And that doesn't change the fact that the PS2 will probably have a FAR superior line-up then the PS3." implies a new aw **** grammar.

It doesn't change the fact, we are talking about the PS3's first year line up to the PS2's and critically and community wise the PS3 looks to be far behind the PS2. There's no point in making exceptions or shifting the subject the PS3 is doing worse then the PS2 is in it's first year.

There you go again. Abysmal? I have a lot more PS3 games than I did for my first year of PS2 games, and PS3's first year isn't even up yet. You obviously overlook the quality of the current PS3 titles. They are certainly NOT abysmal. In fact, they are comparable against 360's first year of games (Wii games don't shout quality so I left it out).

Quality? PS2 had far far more 9.0+ and 8.0+ titles on gamerankings and metacritic it's first year. Also I think the community speaks for itself since I rarely hear of games as ground breaking as Metal Gear Solid 2, Silent Hill 2, Devil May Cry, Grand Theft Auto 3, and Gran Turismo 4. Yes we hear about them, but I'm talking about this year. Tell me what current and upcoming exclusive PS3 games of this year look to stand up to those games? All I can think of is Rachet and Clank *I hate it but many people like it* and I think Uncharted comes out this year too. And since when are we comparing it against the Wii and 360? We're talking about comparing the PS3's first year to the PS2 and absolutely nothing more.

 

[FateBreaker]

So a developer and publisher would rather release a game on a platform that will sell far less then another platform?

OK...so with your logic Blue Dragon still should have been released on Xbox360. It was still the best seller, only very recently being beaten by Wii wordwide. Meanwhile, PS3 sales aren't too hot in ANY country. So with your logic, it was actually a WISE choice to put these jRPGs on 360, right??

tri-Crescendo makes budget titles?:lol

Yeah, that's what I said. They make great games, but I don't think Namco gave them too much money to make it.

 

[clustering]

Oh man, the knew Vanillaware game looks fucking awesome. I honestly didn't like Odin Sphere much, although I really did try. Hopefully this game impresses me more, because it sure looks awesome.

 

[schuelma]

"And that doesn't change the fact that the PS2 will probably have a FAR superior line-up then the PS3." implies a new aw **** grammar.

There you go again. Abysmal? I have a lot more PS3 games than I did for my first year of PS2 games, and PS3's first year isn't even up yet. You obviously overlook the quality of the current PS3 titles. They are certainly NOT abysmal. In fact, they are comparable against 360's first year of games (Wii games don't shout quality so I left it out).

So wait..according to you, the PS3 has better games out as compared to the PS2..and yet its selling a ton worse? How does that work?

 

[Zeed]

Nice find! I think that's probably fine, there are a few scans in the official thread as well. Seems (though you've probably already found this) that the book was a JP pre-order bonus, so it might be hard to come by.

It was a pre-order bonus? Bitches are charging $60 for that shit! Argh.

Well let me go evaluate the contents now and see if it's worth it.

 

[icecream]

So a developer and publisher would rather release a game on a platform that will sell far less then another platform?

Again, where is your precedence for determining that a SO4 for the 360 would sell significantly less than a SO4 for the PS3?

 

[KiticanaX]

OK...so with your logic Blue Dragon still should have been released on Xbox360. It was still the best seller, only very recently being beaten by Wii wordwide. Meanwhile, PS3 sales aren't too hot and ANY country. So with your logic, it was actually a WISE choice to put these jRPGs on 360, right??



Yeah, that's what I said. They make great games, but I don't think Namco gave them too much money to make it.

No it was a horrible choice.

The PS3 already has games that have sold more then Blue Dragon in Japan *both first and third party*, because remember Blue Dragon is the 360's best selling Japanese game. So there are far more potential buyers in Japan.

Japanese market performence is crucial for Japanese publishers/developers since Japanese games sell far more in Japan then overseas. LINK

So yes it would've been far wiser to release it for the PS3, though I will wait until I see it's performance in the Western market before officially moving my tongue.

Also what on Earth does the Wii recently overtaking the 360 in worldwide sales have anything to do with how well JRPG's will sell on the 360 compared to other consoles?
The only thing I can get out of it is negativity for the point you're trying to prove.

Again, where is your precedence for determining that a SO4 for the 360 would sell significantly less than a SO4 for the PS3?

Because of the far lower Japanese sales? I mean Star Ocean III sold far more in Japan then in the West, but that's including both the original and director cut sales.

 

[Whoaness]

It doesn't change the fact, we are talking about the PS3's first year line up to the PS2's and critically and community wise the PS3 looks to be far behind the PS2. There's no point in making exceptions or shifting the subject the PS3 is doing worse then the PS2 is in it's first year.

Quality? PS2 had far far more 9.0+ and 8.0+ titles on gamerankings and metacritic it's first year. Also I think the community speaks for itself since I rarely hear of games as ground breaking as Metal Gear Solid 2, Silent Hill 2, Devil May Cry, Grand Theft Auto 3, and Gran Turismo 4. Yes we hear about them, but I'm talking about this year. And since when are we comparing it against the Wii and 360? We're talking about comparing the PS3's first year to the PS2 and absolutely nothing more.

Gee, you just had to continue with it. You ended the sentence and started a new statement. Basically, that second sentence is a new statement that does not include the "first year" bit.

I can't sort by date on gamerankings and I don't trust metacritic (not like I trust gamerankings entirely). I use to trust Gamespot and they do list 3-4 AAA for PS2 and PS3 is in the same range, even though I think a lot of their current reviews are crock.

And again, a lot of those title you labeled weren't in the first year of the PS2.

 

[el Diablo]

One of my questions was that. It's not up to Vanillaware, it's up to their publisher. Vanillaware is just starting and they need to make themselves a name. They can't be like Kojima and say "Hey, I'm gonna get out of this Publisher politics and form my independent studio." Vanillaware probably has to play ball for some time.

But a possible PS2 port could happen. It's not like Japan doesn't have PS2s anymore. The install base is there.

That's the point, there's no confidence in making any money on the the PS3 at this time or at any time in the foreseeable future heh. It's a vicious cycle that the PS3 will be stuck in for a long time over there. PS3 needs JP style games to sell systems but developers won't make said games because there isn't a large enough userbase out there to make it profitable. Sadly publishers trump dev teams. Kojima might think he's the man cause he's working on the PS3 exclusively but when push comes to shove if Konami leans on him we're going to see MGS5 on another platform.

Also i put the odds of this being released on the PS2 at none and none, given the wii's hardware and control methods the odds of a gaming coming from another system to it are fairly high but the odds going the other direction are very very low.

Ah this wouldn't be so aggravating if Odin Sphere wasn't such a great game, easily the most enjoyable i've played this year.

 

[KiticanaX]

Gee, you just had to continue with it. You ended the sentence and started a new statement. Basically, that second sentence is a new statement that does not include the "first year" bit.

I can't sort by date on gamerankings

Yes you can it's at the bottom right of the customizable options when you go to "the rankings" link.

and I don't trust metacritic (not like I trust gamerankings entirely).

So what's more relibale then metacritic a site that includes all trustworthy reviewers?

I use to trust Gamespot and they do list 3-4 AAA for PS2 and PS3 is in the same range, even though I think a lot of their current reviews are crock.

And again, a lot of those title you labeled weren't in the first year of the PS2.

Yes they were. All of them came out in 2001, and it still doesn't change the fact that their are barely any Q1 08 titles to look forward for the PS3 unless MGS4 follows promise and is released then. *then again I think it was quarter 2*

 

[icecream]

Because of the far lower Japanese sales?

Except the Star Ocean series sells well outside of Japan as well.

In any case, what platform it actually appears on does not interest me until TGS, when it will probably be announced. RPGs are not the same as other genres, and at this point, you don't have enough data to prove one platform is successful over the other.

 

[FateBreaker]

No it was a horrible choice.

The PS3 already has games that have sold more then Blue Dragon in Japan *both first and third party*, because remember Blue Dragon is the 360's best selling Japanese game. So there are far more potential buyers in Japan.

You say this like it's this huge gap in sales. And it's not. The sales are not too drastic of a difference, just for Japan; worldwide, 360's all over PS3 with software.

Japanese market performence is crucial for Japanese publishers/developers since Japanese games sell far more in Japan then overseas. LINK

This is arguable. SNES used to be the best at RPG selling (and Genesis, maybe, whatever), but then when Sony came into the picture with PS1, N64 really didn't get much support for jRPGs. Now Microsoft is in the picture with 360, so how can you say it doesn't have the possibility of becoming a great jRPG holder?

So yes it would've been far wiser to release it for the PS3, though I will wait until I see it's performance in the Western market before officially moving my tongue.

I'm hearing Blue Dragon is selling decently. Let's say 100,000 its first week. So by default, if Sony published it on PS3, you're saying it would be maybe 200,000--oh, and better reviews, just because it's on PS3?

Also what on Earth does the Wii recently overtaking the 360 in worldwide sales have anything to do with how well JRPG's will sell on the 360 compared to other consoles?
The only thing I can get out of it is negativity for the point you're trying to prove.

It has nothing to do with it ...I was just pointing out that that is the only change from when BD was released in Japan to when it was released now, in America. Negativity? Negativity in what, man? I own a 360 and Wii, and I'm happy they're both selling well. What are YOU talking about?

 

[KiticanaX]

Except the Star Ocean series sells well outside of Japan as well.

The fact that the series sells more in Japan then out of Japan is a far more crucial matter to think of.

 

[FateBreaker]

The fact that the series sells more in Japan then out of Japan is a far more crucial matter to think of.

It's actually pretty darn close to selling equally in contrast with Japan and America.

 

[Whoaness]

Yes you can it's at the bottom right.

So what's more relibale then metacritic a site that includes all trustworthy reviewers?

Yes they were. All of them came out in 2001, and it still doesn't change the fact that their are barely any Q1 08 titles to look forward for the PS3 unless MGS4 follows promise and is released then. *then again I think it was quarter 2*

Yeah I don't see why critics mark PS3 R6V lower than 360 when its known that PS3 is better. Stuff like that, I don't buy. Times have changed and reviewers are crappier so what can I say about that?

Metacritic includes Maxim, Yahoo Games... it's about as bad as Gamerankings' problems.

GTA3 just makes the mark by 4 days. Oct 26 2000 is PS2 release date. FFX and MGS2 don't count.

 

[Bebpo]

SO4 is X360 unless Tri-Ace is Xenophobic (which very well could be, as a lot of Japanese developers are).

 

[Haly]

Vanillaware game scan

Main character needs to get some sleep.

 

[Jonnyram]

The fact that the series sells more in Japan then out of Japan is a far more crucial matter to think of.

3 sold better in the US than Japan. DC was a re-release in Japan and I'd imagine that many people who bought DC already owned the original.

 

[icecream]

Unless Tri-Ace is Xenophobic (which very well could be, as a lot of Japanese developers are).

Then where did IU come from.

 

[FateBreaker]

Then where did IU come from.

Two tri-Ace RPG's for 360? Oh man...just too good to be true...

 

[KiticanaX]

You say this like it's this huge gap in sales. And it's not. The sales are not too drastic of a difference, just for Japan; worldwide, 360's all over PS3 with software.

Not with Japanese centric games or in Japan where Japanese software sales almost twice as much then it does overseas, I'd call twice the amount a pretty big gap.

This is arguable. SNES used to be the best at RPG selling (and Genesis, maybe, whatever), but then when Sony came into the picture with PS1, N64 really didn't get much support for jRPGs. Now Microsoft is in the picture with 360, so how can you say it doesn't have the possibility of becoming a great jRPG holder?

What? The difference between the 360 and the PSX was that with the PSX the Japanese games sold VERY well, well into the millions, unlike the 360 where the best Japanese game sold around 200,000 copies, that's a HUGE difference

I'm hearing Blue Dragon is selling decently. Let's say 100,000 its first week. So by default, if Sony published it on PS3, you're saying it would be maybe 200,000--oh, and better reviews, just because it's on PS3?

First of all "decently" isn't good enough because it would've sold far better on the PS3 looking at it's performance in Japan in the realm of big selling software. Also what on earth are you takling about better reviews? I even said that the PS3 reviews of Enchant Arms was worse then the 360.

It has nothing to do with it ...I was just pointing out that that is the only change from when BD was released in Japan to when it was released now, in America. Negativity? Negativity in what, man? I own a 360 and Wii, and I'm happy they're both selling well. What are YOU talking about?

So software sales in a country where these types of games sell the most have nothing to do with a game performance? Negativity? How can I not be negative the 360's software sales *actually overall Japanese performance* is sheer abysmal. I mean if 200,000 copies is the highest you dish out in that region there really isn't anything more to add.

Then where did IU come from.

Well it's first party published so I assume Microsoft paid tri-ace to develop it.

Yeah I don't see why critics mark PS3 R6V lower than 360 when its known that PS3 is better. Stuff like that, I don't buy. Times have changed and reviewers are crappier so what can I say about that?

Metacritic includes Maxim, Yahoo Games... it's about as bad as Gamerankings' problems.

GTA3 just makes the mark by 4 days. Oct 26 2000 is PS2 release date. FFX and MGS2 don't count.

Then the PS2's first year performance is still superior to the PS3's, so nothing changes.

 

[Bebpo]

Then where did IU come from.

That's because they'll take free money Plus PS3 tools were too far behind anyway.

SO4 is either:

A. On X360 using tools they've developed with IU.

or

B. On PS3 using ported tools they've developed on IU & lots of money that was supposed to be spent on IU.

 

[icecream]

Well it's first party published so I assume Microsoft paid tri-ace to develop it.

If money was all it took, then MS would have a much larger JP lineup now.

 

[FateBreaker]

Not with Japanese centric games or in Japan where Japanese software sales almost twice as much then it does overseas, I'd call twice the amount a pretty big gap.

OK, Xbox360's best-selling games have been around 150,000-200,000. But you're telling me there are PS3 games that are twice as much in Japan, then? Go ahead, tell me some. More than two.

What? The difference between the 360 and the PSX was that with the PSX the Japanese games sold VERY well, well into the millions, unlike the 360 where the best Japanese game sold around 200,000 copies, that's a HUGE difference

You missed the point of what I was saying.

First of all "decently" isn't good enough because it would've sold far better on the PS3 looking at it's performance in Japan in the realm of big selling software. Also what on earth are you takling about better reviews? I even said that the PS3 reviews of Enchant Arms was worse then the 360.

I just told you to assume it was 100,000. So in theory, you're saying it would have sold better just because of that? As for what on Earth am I talking about, I'm trying to understand WTF you're saying, man. You're saying it would sell better, but are you saying it'd get graded better, too?

So software sales in a country where these types of games sell the most have nothing to do with a game performance? Negativity? How can I not be negative the 360's software sales *actually overall Japanese performance* is sheer abysmal. I mean if 200,000 copies is the highest you dish out in that region there really isn't anything more to add.

I have no idea what you're talking about here.


------------
I'm pretty tired of this, mostly because I think you're being really ignorant on this whole subject, and I think your "facts" are kind of off. So, I'm done.

 

[icecream]

That's because they'll take free money Plus PS3 tools were too far behind anyway.

SO4 is either:

A. On X360 using tools they've developed with IU.

or

B. On PS3 using ported tools they've developed on IU & lots of money that was supposed to be spent on IU.

Wouldn't it be possible for S-E to front the money for a PS3 version? tri-Ace did say they're developing their next-gen engine with cross-platform capabilities in mind.

Although I do agree the most effective way out is to make it for the 360, since the tools are already there and the sales are guaranteed to be decent worldwide.

 

[Twilight Princess]

must've been lonely having only the gc last gen I guess.

It's ok, we had BKI and BKO.

 

[KiticanaX]

If money was all it took, then MS would have a much larger JP lineup now.

Well money was all it did take considering that they offered them millions to develop a game from them.

OK, Xbox360's best-selling games have been around 150,000-200,000. But you're telling me there are PS3 games that are twice as much in Japan, then? Go ahead, tell me some. More than two.

There are only two and that shows that the PS3 can move more software then the 360 can in Japan. And it still doesn't change the fact that the average Japanese game sells more on the PS3 then the 360.


You missed the point of what I was saying.

I just told you to assume it was 100,000. So in theory, you're saying it would have sold better just because of that?

*continued*

I'm trying to understand WTF you're saying, man.

:lol

You're saying it would sell better, but are you saying it'd get graded better, too?

I already stated twice that Enchant Arms got a lower score on the PS3 then the 360.

I have no idea what you're talking about here.

I have no idea where you get the idea I've said these things.


------------

I'm pretty tired of this, mostly because I think you're being really ignorant on this whole subject, and I think your "facts" are kind of off. So, I'm done.

What? I said that Star Ocean series won't appear on the 360 because the series sells better in Japan and the PS3 is more likely because it has higher Japanese software sales, that is a fact.

I stated that the PS3 can gross higher software sales and has higher average Japanese game sales, that is a fact.

I also stated that Japanese focused games sell poorly on the 360 which is also fact.

Add them up together = Little Hope for Star Ocean 4 on the 360.

My facts aren't off at all they're straight from Media Create sales and publisher earnings. The only problem is that you don't choose to accept the reality of them and their effect on Microsoft's third party performance. Want proof that it's true, then tell me why do you see very few Japanese third party support and hardly any Japanese centric or even focused games on the 360 by third parties?

 

[Tenbatsu]

Vanillaware game looks AWESOME. Love the art style mingled with a classical Japanese theme. It really is Okami + Odin Sphere. :lol

This, in particular, looks outstanding.

What we are lookin at now is just a still image, imagine the moving of the Sakura leaves, lanterns, flags.....gulp!

 

[icecream]

Want proof that it's true, then tell me why do you see very few Japanese third party support and hardly any Japanese centric or even focused games on the 360 by third parties?

What?

But I'm not going to be the one to reply to this one. It seems your mind is already made up.

 

[FateBreaker]

stuff

I'm really tempted to continue this, just because of how you apparently don't know wtf a fact actually is, but like icecream, I'm just going to sit here, wait, and hope to God Star Ocean 4 comes to Xbox360 just to shut you up.

 

[Awntawn]

I hope SO4's on PS3 simply so I can import it right when it comes out instead of having to wait half a year for a localization that I'm going to be switching off anyway ala Trusty Bell ;'

Unless it's a simultaneous release with both language tracks included on the disks, but who the hell are we kidding 3;

 

[Klone.K]

wow, why did Pokemon score that high?

 

[Whoaness]

wow, why did Pokemon score that high?

Scoring Pokemon low would constitute as suicide as a reviewer. Angry mobs will form!

 

[Kintaro]

I hate all over you for ruining this thread with silly arguments.

Although, if SO4 does go to 360, I'll be shock and awed as that will say volumes about the overall situation...

 

[ethelred]

I'm calling it now -- Star Ocean 4 for 360.

 

[Zeed]

I'm calling it now -- Star Ocean 4 for 360.

If it does that cements my 360 purchase over the PS3.

 

[Skilletor]

I own a 360 and ps3, but I want it (more) on ps3...because that's region free.

 

[Bebpo]

If money was all it took, then MS would have a much larger JP lineup now.

Money is all it takes.

MS in Japan just doesn't want to spend it besides a few big IPs here and there. If they wanted to they could've bet their whole budget on a lineup of non-stop AAA exclusive Japanese games, but they obviously felt that wasn't the best solution to profiting worldwide.

I own a 360 and ps3, but I want it (more) on ps3...because that's region free.

I'd rather have rpgs on PS3 just so I don't have to replay long dungeons when my system crashes. Every single X360 game I've played recently has crashed at least once and forced me to replay sections. Bioshock crashed once and I had to redo 2 hours of gameplay, The Darkness crashed once and I had to redo about 30 mins, Lost Planet crashed on a different system like 3 times making me redo about 3 hours of gameplay total...it's my only pet peeve with playing games on the X360, though I'll still buy the X360 versions and redo sections over play a worse looking/running port.

But I'd also want it to be on X360 to get better sales and push more jrpg developers onto the next-gen bandwagon.

 

[Askia47]

I dont think SO4 is going on 360. Not enough support in The Japanese market to justify it. Sure Blue Dragon Sold ok, but i think they would do better on PS3.

 

[ShinAmano]

I can't wait...but at the same time I wish Nintendo would have gone the HD route as this would truly stand above the rest...sigh...

 

[Error]

It's ok, we had BKI and BKO.

 

[ethelred]

Scary, isn't it?

 

[radios shipping overview]

It didn't sell that poorly relative to what other comparable games sold, but its performance was bad enough -- when one factors in the human dev resources consumed on it, the time it took to make it, how heavily it was marketed, the game's budget and then how much it sold -- that it got its designers fired.

Now maybe you'd like to type all that out whenever you talk about the game, but for most people, "it bombed" is going to serve as sufficient shorthand.

All I know is that it sold above expectations, according to Capcom. But clearly it didn't sell enough to launch a milk-tastic franchise, which in Capcom terms (and in terms of modern dev costs) spells CapBOMB. Iiiii gotcha.

 

[ethelred]

All I know is that it sold above expectations, according to Capcom. But clearly it didn't sell enough to launch a milk-tastic franchise, which in Capcom terms (and in terms of modern dev costs) spells CapBOMB. Iiiii gotcha.

The entire project cost Capcom a lot more money than it brought in. It was phenomenally expensive and it didn't give them the money they needed to make up for that. So you can call it a success or think whatever you like. It doesn't change things now.

 

[Jonnyram]

I dont think SO4 is going on 360. Not enough support in The Japanese market to justify it. Sure Blue Dragon Sold ok, but i think they would do better on PS3.

Well it would be a real shame if they had to move the project to PS3 just because of the state of the market in Japan. I don't think the current difference is enough to warrant such a move, however. Maybe they're waiting to see how BD does in September NPD.

 

[lupin23rd]

Well it would be a real shame if they had to move the project to PS3 just because of the state of the market in Japan. I don't think the current difference is enough to warrant such a move, however. Maybe they're waiting to see how BD does in September NPD.

If September NPD comes out in October sometime, and they will unveil the platform at TGS (are they?), wouldn't that be too late? Or did you mean August NPD (which shows up in September)?

I want to play Star Ocean 4 on PS3, personally. I'll offer up Lost Remnant exclusivity on 360 and the rights to the next Railfan game for multiplatform (or PS3 exclusive) SO4.