Support NeoGAF

[Edzi]

I can absolutely see why it might seem that way, and while I agree with you for the most part, it's important to remember that Nintendo are the ones that deserve the most blame for their current failures. Nintendo messed up in almost every single way regarding the Wii U, from the terrible/nonexistent marketing to the lack of regular games coming out (which is really sad considering the great games on the system).

However, it can certainly feel like people are being far too hard on Nintendo/Wii U (and for the wrong reasons). People should be focusing on all the mistakes Nintendo made and why this mess happened. What shouldn't happen is all the Nintendo bashing and straight up smugness or joy that you see from a lot of people (including those on gaf) when it comes to Nintendo doing poorly. Some people just seem to go out of their way to bash.

 

[theprodigy]

We need a chalkboard for the ever expanding list of people Nintendo fans blame for the WiiU failing.

Spoiler

Blame Nintendo

I bought one at UK launch and couldn't recommend it to a friend in good conscience.

Edit : Are the press to blame for devs and publishers not wanting to make games for it ?

-lazy 3rd parties
-gamers who got a PS4/XB1
-retail for shoving Wii U in the back
-gaming media
-bad marketing

Did I miss something?

 

[Haunted]

All of a sudden Nintendo fans don't want to talk about sales anymore.

It's all about the games.


Snarky observations aside, I'm looking at the WiiU eshop and there's no fucking demo for Pikmin 3, Super Mario 3D World or Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze.

Fucking get your shit together, Nintendo.

 

[Beelzebufo]

I still remember the day Nintendo officially announced the Wii U. I had heard they were planning on releasing another system so I was somewhat excited, but the moment they announced the name "Wii U" my stomach dropped. Somehow I instinctively knew things weren't going to go as well for Nintendo this time around. I hoped I was wrong (and still do) but unfortunately I haven't been so far.

I think that was how most people felt. It didn't help that we had all sorts of rumors going around, from "Project Cafe" to basically an incredibly upgraded SNES with PS4 graphics and new versions of all their old franchises.

 

[JinjoUnchained]

OP, did you somehow miss all of those puff pieces about how Wii U is the only current gen systems with games worth playing? There must have been 10 or so articles like that from major news or gaming sites at the time Mario 3DW came out.

The system still didn't sell and is tracking at the same pace. As a Day 1 adopter, I'm happy with the system as an exclusive Nintendo games box. I like the direction that Nintendo is going with their franchises this generation. But Nintendo themselves promised so much more than that. They promised to have fixed 3rd party relations and to leverage the GamePad to create new experiences. Then they charged a premium price for these false promises. That's why the system is selling like crap and why it has a bad reputation.

There's no doubt that some industry forces just simply dislike Nintendo and want to smear them. But those people are just piling on the mess that Nintendo made. If they deliver on Iwata's recent promise to feature the GamePad at E3 and the media still piles on, then it may be time to revisit this idea. But certainly not now.

 

[Polioliolio]

How about it's just a system that no one wants or asked for, and the stories that are written reflect the mood of gamers. It's not a journalists job to sell a console that Nintendo ruined themselves

See, I feel this way about PS4 and Xbone though.

At least WiiU has good games, like Mario 3D World and Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze.. Upcoming Mario Kart and Smash Bros.

Nothing on ps4/xbone interest me in the least.. There's a PC for that, and all I play on here are indies, Left4Dead2, and Dark Souls.

 

[Freezie KO]

Here we go. Now it's the new trend from Nintendo detractors to dismiss whatever complain or criticism against anything negative toward it calling it "persecution complex" as a punchline for antagonizing.

I agree with the OP. The bad press against WiiU was huge. Sure, there's a lot of reasons for some of them are valid... if they started after WiiU's under performance. But, it actually started even a year before WiiU's release. Of course the detractors will solely blame Nintendo's mistakes for this and will justify the bad press using it as reason, but the bad press coming out before the release was definitively unnecessary.

Emily Rogers made an article about this. This negativism, without a doubt, took major damage on WiiU's reputation. Here's a huge list from bad press against even prior to WiiU's release. I strongly recommend seeing the enormous list of bad press against it from June 2011 till May 2013.

http://www.notenoughshaders.com/2013/05/18/wii-u-two-years-of-negative-brand-momentum/

*Read the list*

Gosh, man… I don't think this is just negativism based on WiiU's underperformance as the reason some are trying to point at, it was big already even before the system launch. The underperformance later was the excuse needed for the detractors to point the reason at to cloud the bashing against it and sounds like were reasonable commentaries. I agree there was somewhat of a "self fullfilling prophecy" from some sections of the media to actually see it falling.

Of course there was negative reaction to the product before it launched. It didn't materialize out of thin air on launch day.

All the reasons to be negative about the product were not fabricated by the media. They were entirely the fault of Nintendo.

Prior to launch, Nintendo left Wii to die with no software for the last two years of its life. They then told everyone that this was the next Wii.

Prior to launch, E3 2012 confused people as to what the Wii U controller actually was. Nintendo showed no compelling game for it.

Prior to launch, at E3 2013, Nintendo still showed no compelling reason for the Wii U controller to exist. Nintendo Land fireworks were met with complete apathy.

Prior to launch, Nintendo was pushing "expanded audience" software to an audience that had already migrated to smartphones and Facebook.

Prior to launch, everyone knew the console would be powered like the PS3/360, which made its non-existent third-party support a safe bet.

Prior to launch, nobody saw the requisite advancements in online from Nintendo. As underwhelming as it looked, their flagship multiplayer title, Nintendo Land, was still offline only.

Prior to launch, this underpowered console that was launching was priced higher than comparatively-powered hardware.

Prior to launch and most importantly, Nintendo showed zero new experiences that they would be offering on the console. NSMB4 and more minigames were the flagship titles. They were going to be followed by more Fit, more Sports, and Game and Wario.

This isn't a media conspiracy. It's not even a story of bad mouthing that got out of hand. This is the story of an undesirable product that the media recognized as undesirable when it was first shown.

 

[RagnarokX]

While most of the blame is on Nintendo for not properly marketing the system, I do feel that Wii U is suffering from a self-fulfilling prophecy. See a lot of people saying they won't buy the system because it's failing, but it's failing because people aren't buying the system. Also see people eagerly anticipating a fire sale and asking for ridiculously unrealistic prices.

 

[fred]

I agree. What's even more ridiculous is that everyone seems to be ignoring the poor sales of the Xbox One so far. It's been an outright flop in Europe post-launch and only had okayish sales in the US. It's total sales since launch aren't a million miles away from the total sales the Wii U had this time last year, during which time the press were starting the Nintendoomed train. If Titanfall doesn't do something drastic Microsoft could have serious problems.

 

[capslock]

Jesus, this is like the Republicans whining about the "liberal media".

 

[Jb]

You're mistaking the effects with the cause. The bad word of mouth is just a consequence of Nintendo's inability to present a compelling and clear vision for why consumers should get their console.

 

[MDX]

I think at this point, the Wii U might be absolutely beyond saving due to the absolutely horrid word of mouth that games journalists are putting out on it. I honestly think that has been the single most damaging factor on this whole situation.

Seriously, they are taking the fun out of video gaming

 

[MDX]

Of course there was negative reaction to the product before it launched. It didn't materialize out of thin air on launch day.

All the reasons to be negative about the product were not fabricated by the media. They were entirely the fault of Nintendo.

Your post is full of contradictions

 

[Rodney McKay]

-lazy 3rd parties
-gamers who got a PS4/XB1
-retail for shoving Wii U in the back
-gaming media
-bad marketing

Did I miss something?

-General audience who thinks the Wii U is just an accessory for the Wii
-3DS getting consistently solid Nintendo franchise support
-Pokemon X/Y making younger audience want 3DS instead of Wii U

 

[Spieler Eins]

Nintendo doesn't do shit to fight against that image, so it's their fault. Journalists just reflect what they get with this horrid console, while Nintendo is constantly on radio silence despite almost no upcoming games and awful sales. This isn't some conspiracy, last year everyone was raving about it after the January Direct showing (and before we realized how much of a farce that one was). I'm sure more than enough people would happily report something brighter regarding this console, but Nintendo isn't giving them anything so they get what they deserve.

 

[RagnarokX]

In terms of media, I don't know about other journalists, at the last few E3s Gametrailer's coverage of Nintendo has been fairly shameful. Last E3 Geoff dedicated an hour to Nintendo coverage and spent that time telling Mega 64 to stop talking about Nintendo and talk about Sony and MS instead, having an overly harsh interview with Reggie, and getting angry about and not really covering the Wii Fit Trainer reveal for Smash Bros. And that was basically Nintendo's E3 for many people.

 

[mantidor]

I see always the same limited views regarding Nintendo's big picture in any thread about the Wii U.

It never fails to deliver a "It's a toy" post like if it was a bad thing, Nintendo is perfectly happy in keeping that image, children are their most important market, on could even argue is the most important market on the industry.

But this forum, gaming forums in general and the gaming press overall are "not children", and most dread the thought of being associated with that image, and that is where most of the animosity towards Nintendo comes from, when their product fails, they feel a sense of satisfaction "see? gaming is for grown ups", Nintendo is wise to ignore all that, to bypass the press through directs, while they are very damaging inside the community, in the mainstream is just noise. I disagree that its that important regarding sales. And Nintendo is never going to get people like the one in the OP without a huge investment that is just not going to give a big enough revenue.

Nintendo is at this point far, far more worried about cellphones and tablets eating the children market than gamespot making clickbait articles every other week, as they should.

 

[Freezie KO]

Your post is full of contradictions

It's a good thing you didn't point any of them out.

--

Last E3 Geoff dedicated an hour to Nintendo coverage [...] having an overly harsh interview with Reggie,

Considering the state of the Wii U, Keighley could have treated Reggie like the Spanish Inquisition, and it still wouldn't have been "overly harsh".

 

[Crisco]

Forecast? Is this OP from August? It's already doomed.

 

[gamingeek]

Great OP. agreed

 

[Linkstrikesback]

It never fails to deliver a "It's a toy" post like if it was a bad thing, Nintendo is perfectly happy in keeping that image, children are their most important market, on could even argue is the most important market on the industry.

Did you miss the entire of the wii generation? Nintendo made approximately all the money exactly because the wii shook off the "It's a childrens toy" view of Nintendo consoles.

 

[RagnarokX]

It's a good thing you didn't point any of them out.

--



Considering the state of the Wii U, Keighley could have treated Reggie like the Spanish Inquisition, and it still wouldn't have been "overly harsh".

It was overly harsh because he just kept asking the same question repeatedly when it was clear Reggie would not or could not give him the answer he wanted and obviously nobody in his position would answer the questions he was asking straightforwardly. It's good to ask hard-hitting questions and he should do that with everyone, but there is a point where it can be excessive and last E3 Geoff hit that point.

 

[RobFox64tm]

As conspiracy theory mongering as it sounds, I think Wii U IS a victim of this to some degree. Not to ignore the flaws inherent in the system itself mind you, because those are real too, but there are some good things about the console that people seem to actively chose to ignore. Most obvious among them is the fact that Wii U already has a good selection of exclusive titles available that can't be played anywhere else. By the time the system dies off completely, it will only be that much better. Wii U is everyone's favorite whipping boy now, as sad as it is, but I think people will look back on it with a realization of the great experiences it offered in spite of its flaws. I hear the word "Dreamcast" thrown around a lot when talk of Wii U surfaces, and I think that's a good comparison. Most people I know have only good things to say about the system in hindsight, and I think it'll be the same for Wii U.

 

[mantidor]

Did you miss the entire of the wii generation? Nintendo made approximately all the money exactly because the wii shook off the "It's a childrens toy" view of Nintendo consoles.

It expanded the concept of being for children only to be for families, but it never shook of the toy image, it made it a more accesible toy for grown ups with children, you only need to see the commercials.

The press had no qualms in calling it a toy anyway, not only a toy but a toy with obsolete technology, it didn't had much of an impact, except in the community, as always, where people changed the rethoric from "kiddie" to "casual", but it was the same thing, most also refused to buy a Wii.

 

[Whiskeymatt]

This is absolutely shocking to me -- Nintendo's problem isn't wholly marketing, it's that the entire gaming journalism scene has it out to completely destroy Nintendo's reputation, to the point where a no brainer purchase becomes completely out of the picture. What the hell happened here? I seriously hope that "Nintendoomed" doesn't end up being a self fulfilling prophecy, because that would be some major bullshit, as the Wii U is, IMO, a wonderful machine.

There are certainly parts of games journalism currently surrounding Nintendo that need to disappear (e.g., factoring sales potential of a game into reviews), but suggesting that "the entire gaming journalism scene has it out to completely destroy Nintendo's reputation" is an incredibly stupid statement. The entirety of the problems with the Wii U fall squarely on Nintnedo's shoulders, because they're the ones who released another underpowered system while failing to properly market it to the masses or secure third party support for it. Those things don't make the Wii U a bad system--I own one and I think it's fantastic--but its problems undeniably originate from Nintendo.

 

[jvm]

This is absolutely shocking to me -- Nintendo's problem isn't wholly marketing, it's that the entire gaming journalism scene has it out to completely destroy Nintendo's reputation, to the point where a no brainer purchase becomes completely out of the picture.

This is irrational. Yes, it isn't all of Nintendo's making, but there isn't also a cabal out to kill Nintendo.

The problem, in a broad sense, is that Nintendo is still operating in a way that would have worked a decade ago but doesn't anymore. Until they get a more modern vision of how to make money with what they have, I don't think you can blame anyone else but them.

 

[Amazeballs]

I'm probably going to get flogged for asking this, but why are people so emotionally invested in this doom and gloom? I suspect quite a few have bought into the sensationalism of the very journalism they love to criticize, and then fulfilling their prophecies for them. I suppose using misfortune as a basis for snark helps one to acquire forum cred too, because I really don't see any other reason for dogpiling on the system.

 

[squidyj]

It's a conspiracy!

those damned games journalists are just out got glorious Nintendo.
are you fucking kidding me?

 

[mrpeabody]

I think at this point, the Wii U might be absolutely beyond saving due to the absolutely horrid word of mouth that games journalists are putting out on it. I honestly think that has been the single most damaging factor on this whole situation.

Here's my two questions:

- What "absolutely horrid word of mouth"? Coverage of the Wii U system and games has been very positive overall.

- If there is unfair reporting, how do you know the Wii U's abysmal sales are due to that, and not to consumers simply not wanting what Nintendo has to offer?

Your friend being shockingly misinformed doesn't prove either of those points.

Nintendo fans need to accept the truth: It's not marketing, and it's not "the media". Nintendo made a machine that people didn't want to buy, and then they starved it of games. That is why sales are in the shitter.

 

[JinjoUnchained]

Edit: double post

 

[komplanen]

Where there's smoke...

 

[RobFox64tm]

I'm probably going to get flogged for asking this, but why are people so emotionally invested in this doom and gloom? I suspect quite a few have bought into the sensationalism of the very journalism they love to criticize, and then fulfilling their prophecies for them. I suppose using misfortune as a basis for snark helps one to acquire forum cred too, because I really don't see any other reason for dogpiling on the system.

I honestly think it's a tough love kind of thing myself. I'm sure even the harshest critics of Nintendo want to see them succeed. Seeing them continually make bad decisions, however, only makes them more vocal, and I think there's some kind of desire then to see them fail, if only to validate their frustrations with the company. I think it's important people do this though, but at the same time I see some trying to negate what the company does well to suit their argument. That's when I start questioning the motives of some of the critics.

 

[Into]

I dont even see that much doom and gloom around the Wii U anymore, certainly not as much as 6 or so months ago, when there was nothing else to really talk about except people predicting XB1 and PS4 sales.

That was the time when every MC and NPD thread had people "OMG THE WII U WTF!?" and countless pages of people discussing what Nintendo should or should not do. We dont really see that anymore, havent for months, its just kind of become standard.

What is worse than being hated and ridiculed as a product? People being completely indifferent towards it. Its like the console is a ghost now

Even the likes of marc^_^ or whatever his name was, is no longer here to tell you how the turnaround is just around the corner, there is nothing left to say anymore.

Its gone from "omg what a flop!!!" to "oh..yeah the Wii U..yeah..that exists"

The XB1 and PS4 have not stolen any sales from the Wii U, since its doing just as badly as before, but they have certainly stolen the discussion part on enthusiast forums, its not just GAF either, look at any gaming forum, Wii U is barely talked about, even in a negative light

 

[Malice215]

The doom and gloom people have for the Wii U is nothing compared to the doom and gloom for the Vita. Even the 3DS had it when it first launched.

I think people at times are more concerned with when a product is going to die so the discussion becomes toxic, but ultimately it's on the companies themselves to change people's perspectives on their hardware and on people to decide whether they want to pay attention to it instead of researching themselves.

 

[3bdelilah]

Absolutely nothing and no one to blame but Nintendo. They all brought this shit storm on themselves and they'll have to see it through as punishment. Killing it now will cause massive anger from most current owners.

Nothing they can do now besides pushing forward those AAA first or second party titles. They can forget about most 3rd party support this gen, PS4 and XBO shits all over Wii U and I'm not just talking about the technical aspects.

Tough to see, actually.

 

[digoutyoursoul]

I can absolutely see why it might seem that way, and while I agree with you for the most part, it's important to remember that Nintendo are the ones that deserve the most blame for their current failures. Nintendo messed up in almost every single way regarding the Wii U, from the terrible/nonexistent marketing to the lack of regular games coming out (which is really sad considering the great games on the system).

However, it can certainly feel like people are being far too hard on Nintendo/Wii U (and for the wrong reasons). People should be focusing on all the mistakes Nintendo made and why this mess happened. What shouldn't happen is all the Nintendo bashing and straight up smugness or joy that you see from a lot of people (including those on gaf) when it comes to Nintendo doing poorly. Some people just seem to go out of their way to bash.

I love them deep down, it's why I criticise them so much as I want them to do well, I want Sony and Microsoft to do well too and I don't want to see another Sega situation a few years down the line.

When I say love them, I don't mean the board, the CEO, the marketers or the Presidents. I mean the mythologies they have brought over the years, the devs and their visions and the fun I have had on the systems.

Nothing would please me more for them to release a beast of a system with a staunch library at a good price and be successful. The Wii U isn't going to be that imo.

 

[Snakeyes]

The negative press is certainly not doing the system any favors, but at the end of the day, it was Nintendo's job to deliver an exciting console and/or software lineup and market it accordingly. Even if there was no way to make the hardware into something else, I can guarantee that the press' response would have been more positive if the Wii U had been unveiled with an ambitious looking Mario game instead of NSMB, a Metroid reveal and more core-oriented first party IPs in general.

 

[WrenchNinja]

This is absolutely shocking to me -- Nintendo's problem isn't wholly marketing, it's that the entire gaming journalism scene has it out to completely destroy Nintendo's reputation, to the point where a no brainer purchase becomes completely out of the picture.

This is conspiracy nonsense.

 

[espher]

I would not say buying a Wii at $150 today without games would be a worthwhile value proposition whether or not the Wii U existed. Because the Wii is widely available new for $100, often with games, and available used for significantly less. I also wouldn't recommend the PS3 for $499 right now either.

The better question is what I would recommend to someone who never had a Wii but wanted to play some Wii games. And to that, I'd ask "Well, is it that you specifically want to play Wii games, or did you sit out the whole generation?" and if they sat out the whole generation, I wouldn't recommend a Wii or a Wii U. I'd look at their computing hardware, potentially recommend PC gaming, potentially recommending a 360. Probably not a PS3 because the availability of them on the cheap is not ideal.

If someone didn't sit out the previous generation, just sat out the Wii, and was looking at doubling back to the library... well, that seems like a pretty great idea. There's some great stuff on it. I'd probably recommend obtaining the hardware as cheaply as possible at this point. Non-launch units hold up pretty well, don't break easily. The online services are about to be discontinued. Also the kind of person who's checking out the Wii's library in 2014 is probably going to be pretty flighty and sort of not really committed, so I think they'd want to minimize their upfront investment to avoid being too burnt.

I dunno.

Interesting.

My recommendation to people that sat out the last gen and aren't into PC or couch PC as a platform is to get a Wii (or WiiU, if they want anything that's coming out for it, since the deals have been solid of late) now to satisfy their itch esp. since there are some great underappreciated titles on it (it's not all shovelware), and then I've been inclined to tell people to wait for a PS3 price drop over a 360 unless they indicate a strong preference for specific titles that saw and benefit from a performance advantage on the 360, just because of the differences in exclusives.

 

[3bdelilah]

Where there's smoke...

... there is a massive forest fire called the Wii U

 

[shiftplusone]

the wii u is the only device that I've ever forgotten i had connected

Changing sources the other day I was like wtf is in hdmi3

It's not journalists making it a bad sell(though they aren't helping) it's Nintendo

 

[Neff]

The media, today more than ever, is generally alarmist, sensationalist, and dramatic for drama's sake. That's how they sell magazines, sell newspapers, get viewers, get clicks etc. Positive and negative coverage is extremely polarised. Individuals, causes and parties seen to be doing well are glorified, and those seen to be doing badly are vilified. It's simply an exacerbated report of reality as it stands. It's nothing new.

 

[3bdelilah]

This is absolutely shocking to me -- Nintendo's problem isn't wholly marketing, it's that the entire gaming journalism scene has it out to completely destroy Nintendo's reputation, to the point where a no brainer purchase becomes completely out of the picture. What the hell happened here? I seriously hope that "Nintendoomed" doesn't end up being a self fulfilling prophecy, because that would be some major bullshit, as the Wii U is, IMO, a wonderful machine.

Action reaction. This whole reaction is nothing but a consequence of Nintendo's action. Namely not even knowing what the hell they're even doing until it's way too late. There still might be a stay of execution with the new Zelda U, maaaaaaaybe even a new Metroid or the new Miyamoto IP, but other than that this console is dead, buried, and pissed all over it. And heck, it's not even breakfast. Nintendo has a loooooooooooong way riding this train wreck out.

 

[StoopKid]

... there is a massive forest fire called the Wii U

Lmao

 

[Palette Swap]

While most of the blame is on Nintendo for not properly marketing the system, I do feel that Wii U is suffering from a self-fulfilling prophecy. See a lot of people saying they won't buy the system because it's failing, but it's failing because people aren't buying the system. Also see people eagerly anticipating a fire sale and asking for ridiculously unrealistic prices.

The thing is that negative momentum like that falls squarely as the company's responsibility, in its inception and in the means to fight it.

Honestly, when you put out a product out there for people to buy, the only things that aren't your responsibility are random stuff (like criminal acts, acts of god or political unrest) and regulatory stuff. And even these could be considered debatable as someone could argue the company badly assessed some risks.

I'm not saying this to stifle discussion, I think discussing these phenomenons is pretty interesting, what damages a brand, what can be done to control that damage, what's important to salvage; I'm just saying that ultimately, all these hows and whys shouldn't be used to shift blame.

 

[Shiggy]

The bad word of mouth just is a result of how undesired the console is and how there's a lack of ambitious software. Just another Mario, DK, Wii Fit, or Wii Sports won't encourage a lot of people to buy a new console, when the games look and play exactly like their predecessors.

 

[GamerJM]

I think it's part of the problem but it's far from the biggest problem. No matter how negative journalists are about a product, there's always going to be a big portion of the market that's not going to affect because they don't pay attention to journalists.

Still, I do think that the overwhelming negativity regarding the Wii U is having a negative effect on the console's performance.

 

[Panda Rin]

the PS3 was a running joke for some time before Sony decided to do something about it. Nintendo can do the same.

 

[Pitmonkey]

Still, I do think that the overwhelming negativity regarding the Wii U is having a negative effect on the console's performance.

I'm a Nintendo fan. When my 38 year old brother approached me about purchasing a Wii U for his 8 year old, than mentioned that they "may discontinue it" because it's doing poorly, it became very clear that the negativity does, in fact, hit people who don't pay attention to the press.

Not to mention, I couldn't rationally suggest it when Nintendo offers the 3DS, the platform he ended up going with.

Nintendo needs to get their shit together, plain and simple. Bring the Wii U up to the standards of their 3DS line up and they will be golden.

 

[IchigoSharingan]

I think Wii U has really done some damage to the Nintendo Brand.

I think Nintendo has done damage to the Wii brand.