It's all just part of the cycle. When your device doesn't have games it sells bad. When it sells bad no one wants to makes games for it. No games equals negative opinions from critics. Negative opinions ends up equaling killing a dead horse. That's more Nintendo's fault than anything. At this point, Nintendo should realize that they need to sell their system with a killer app day one and move from there. No way a Nintendo system can survive if it starts as slow as the Wii U did.
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This Wii U doom forecast is absolutely toxic
- Thread starter Astral/H3X
- Start date
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Uncle Rupee
Banned
I disagree that the press is doing more harm to the Wii U than Nintendo's management of the situation.
Amazeballs
Member
Usually when people do that they do so constructively by writing out rational critiques, often attempting to find core issues, and possible solutions to those issues. Many of the negative comments I read are lazy one-liners all with the same regurgitated rhetoric, And no the issue isn't as simple as one that can be stated adequately in one or two lines. Some even mention that they feel offended for whatever reason, when there are companies like Monsato or, hell, even EA that actually do things worthy of disdain. Last I remember Nintendo was the publisher least prone to scummy tactics like coercive micro-transactions or "bullshots." They may have also made a few missteps in designing and marketing their console, but that's hardly a reason to be offended.
At this point, I am beginning to believe that even the Nintendo name itself is starting to become toxic to gamers. Anecdotal evidence, but I am the only person I know who buys Nintendo systems or plays their games. I ask my nephew and other kids about it and they just don't give a shit about anything Nintendo related.
It sickens me that it has come to this. It sounds like hyperbole but I truly believe that Iwata is destroying the Nintendo brand.
It sickens me that it has come to this. It sounds like hyperbole but I truly believe that Iwata is destroying the Nintendo brand.
The Abominable Snowman
Member
Because Sony set the entry barrier extremely high.
Wii U's entry barrier is not nearly that high. It's quite low, as it's priced along with last-gen consoles.
Linkstrikesback
Member
The PS3 kept getting 3rd party games because they were still worth bringing them over from the 360 until sony found its feet. That ship has already sailed for wii u.
But at least they had something the Wii U will never have this gen: 3rd party support. That way, you could afford the time to think about your own IP's. Nintendo doesn't have that luxury.
Edit: beaten with a cane
Neff
Member
Wii and DS Lite were marketed very specifically towards casuals, families and children, with twee celebrity endorsements. Unfortunately, this image persists, and image is a very, very powerful (or equally destructive) thing. If you're not one thing, you're most definitely the other, and you can earn cool points by disassociation, as Sony and MS have. This disparity has reached its peak with Wii U and PS4/XBone.
Fortunately, Nintendo now seem to realise this, with their promise of focusing on the core gamer for 2014, but they still want both audiences, and that's going to be a difficult tightrope to walk.
Polioliolio
Member
See, I feel this way about PS4 and Xbone though.
At least WiiU has good games, like Mario 3D World and Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze.. Upcoming Mario Kart and Smash Bros.
Nothing on ps4/xbone interest me in the least.. There's a PC for that, and all I play on here are indies, Left4Dead2, and Dark Souls.
theprodigy
Member
yes, we get it by now, you really aren't interested in PS4/XB1 offerings
you really didn't have to say it three times though
I'd go even further: Nintendo is not focussing on the core gamer this year. With the apparent lack of software, they are going for a totally different audience: the hardcore gamer.
digoutyoursoul
Member
Plants v Zombies Garden Warfare is the type of game I thought would of been a good addition for Nintendo in terms of trying to build some sort of third party portfolio imo
First party Nintendo will always have gems, they have excellent teams there but you need more than that.
IchigoSharingan
Member
Except Nintendo has done this more than once already. Doesn't look like they want to realize anything of worth.
Amazeballs
Member
Wouldn't Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze, Monster Hunter 3U, Monster Hunter Frontier G, Zelda games, Monolith Soft X, Bayonetta 2, W101, ZombiU, Smash Bros, and FExSMT fit into the category of hardcore games? Quite a selection consdering the lack of third party support.
Captain Tuttle
Member
Nintendo has been doing that by itself for years, it's just now catching up to them
If we are mentioning old titles, let's not forget about Disaster, Metroid Prime, Sin&Punishment 2, and Xenoblade, which are all playable on Wii U.
In this day and age of clickbaiting the media is going to hype up the thing that gets them the most hits, and talk doom and gloom to generate even more hits. It's unfortunate but there's no money in trying to promote the good side of a system that doesn't resonate w/ the target demographic for games journalism as much as the competition, and even less of a reason now that marketing efforts screwed up and really stifled consoles sales growth.
adamantypants
Member
Sometimes the launch lineup doesn't matter. Sometimes it's just the hardware. Look at the Vita. IMO, it had the strongest launch of any system I've ever pre-ordered. The games were there people just didn't want another handheld. The difference is that it seems like Sony is okay with where the Vita is and I think they're doing okay selling it as an add-on for the PS4.
I think the same could be said about the Wii U. Even for us in the know, the hardware is gimmicky at best and not a system seller in itself. If Nintendo had come out guns blazing with beefy internals rivaling the PS4/Xbone I would've been super hyped on it.
The Wii U failed the day Nintendo named it. You can't make a new console that the majority of people think is just an add on. Ninetendo not getting smash and Mario kart out in the first year hurt as well. But if people had even known it existed it might have had enough third party support to survive. The media calling a dead console dead isn't toxic, its the truth.
true. I didn't even take that into account. All Nintendo can do at this point is save face.
Software was definitely Vita's problem. It had a lot of games, but a lot of those games could also be played on PS3 or were simply inferior versions of PS3 games. They were trying to sell Vita on its portability, but portability has long not been a major selling point for portables. DS and 3DS found success in differentiating their software enough from Nintendo's home console offerings.
The ridiculous memory card prices were another big issue.
Apophis2036
Banned
I'm amazed that some people think Wii U having ports of things like Dark Souls II and the latest Battlefield would have any effect on sales ! Look at the sales of recent hardcore third party releases on the system, it says it all.
The problem with Wii U is price, marketing and software droughts, not third party support.
The problem with Wii U is price, marketing and software droughts, not third party support.
I remember those "WUST" threads, super active every day, with all sorts of crazy hopes and dreams. Those threads felt more active than both the PS4 hype and Xbox One threads did combined. The PS4 thread was only popular because of the Kaz gifs, the Xbox One...erm.. wasent that active
Today most of those people who participated in those WUST threads arent around, and those who are, do not seem to care about the Wii U much anymore.
Its a bit sad to see such a hyped product that seemed, at least online, to have such potential just crash and burn.
There is a gif of a hypetrain that we see before every E3, where it goes off rails and explodes. To me the Wii U perfectly exemplifies that gif, it started so crazy and ended up in such a whimper. I actually want to play 4 games on the Wii U that are out now, but because the console carries a stench of failure and its future is unsure, i am reluctant to invest in one.
I dont think Wii U's failure is apathy/hate amongst enthusiast online, because at one point, it used to have this very forum by the balls in a positive way and look how it ended.
Today most of those people who participated in those WUST threads arent around, and those who are, do not seem to care about the Wii U much anymore.
Its a bit sad to see such a hyped product that seemed, at least online, to have such potential just crash and burn.
There is a gif of a hypetrain that we see before every E3, where it goes off rails and explodes. To me the Wii U perfectly exemplifies that gif, it started so crazy and ended up in such a whimper. I actually want to play 4 games on the Wii U that are out now, but because the console carries a stench of failure and its future is unsure, i am reluctant to invest in one.
I dont think Wii U's failure is apathy/hate amongst enthusiast online, because at one point, it used to have this very forum by the balls in a positive way and look how it ended.
Amazeballs
Member
I was splitting my attention so I only gleaned over the latter half of your post, but backwards compatibility is a good feature to point out.
Rodney McKay
Member
Having solid, consistent 3rd Party support is exactly how consoles avoid software droughts.
ReBurn
Gold Member
Now you're just making sense.
Wii U is in the situation because the system is not very appealing to the majority of consumers at market, not because journalists are putting a "horrid word of mouth" on it. During the Holidays actually, tons of game journalists picked up the mantle for the Wii U and tried to convince people it was a better investment than XBO and PS4 at this juncture.
Five reasons to buy a Wii U over a PS4 and Xbox One this Holiday
TIME: 10 Reasons I'd Pick the Wii U over the PS4 and Xbox One today
8 Reasons to buy a Wii U instead of a PS4 or Xbox One this Holiday
4 Reasons to buy a Wii U over a PS4 or Xbox One this season
Wii U beats PS4 and Xbox One onto kids Christmas lists
5 Reasons Parents should pick Wii U instead of PS4 or Xbox One
Gizmodo: Why I'm getting a Wii U over a PS4 and Xbox One
The list goes on and on.
But...
...at the end of the day, one must understand the Wii U is a fundamentally flawed product to most people on the market. It's not a game journalist making this be so. It's a market evaluating their options and seeing it is a poor idea to invest in the Wii U.
We're talking about a system that after this year will likely have the worst third party support of any Nintendo console, will almost have nothing except lego games and a few errant family titles from publishers and developers. Since most games are made from third parties, and by sheer numbers most good games come from third parties, the fact that you must eliminate these guys as an option if you go Wii U is hugely problematic for most people. And if you DO get those third party ports, they'll be comically inferior, making it pointless for much of the rest of the people still behind anyway.
Think about it. We're talking about a system that is performing so poorly it's nearly unprecedented. We're talking about a system whose future is indeed incredibly dire, which also has to deal with its markedly inferior technical power, which is also inhibited by a prohibitively expensive gamepad that arbitrarily makes the price higher than it should be particularly when you consider how rarely anyone is using it in any compelling fashion, including Nintendo. And the gamepad itself is its own problem - laughably low quality, with a screen that is sub-HD... what's the point of finally joining the HD gen and lauding an off-TV feature when you must once again take the trip down to SD road to utilize it? Wii U's OS, which is improved from launch, is still woefully slow compared to any decent standard, and has reams of its own idiosyncratic problems (and Miiverse simply isn't a widely appealing concept for the market, it's basically a lot of circle jerking with Nintendo fanboys and awkward drawing).
The reason I mention all this is not to shit on Wii U, which I own and enjoy (whenever there is a game release anyway that I can stomach, which is getting rarer now again after the Pikmin 3, Wonderful 101 and Super Mario 3D World trio punch). It's to demonstrate precisely why Wii U is having so much trouble at market. One problem is nothing. But Wii U is straddled between two worlds and does neither particularly well, whilst being in the shadow of two other platforms who basically do everything it does but better. Hell, even the Off TV play feature shows up for Vita users (and you get a half-way decent screen at least there!). And on top of that, the system which does everything worse basically has no future.
I would personally find it very difficult to recommend the Wii U anymore to someone I love, and I was doing just that over the Holidays. But now seeing the sheer cliff it is falling off of, I can't in good conscience do it. And I'm sure many journalists feel the same. But it's not their fault. It's Nintendo's. They designed the machine they did.
charlequin
Banned
This is super-harsh, but ultimately the poor value proposition is pretty much what it comes down to. The good software on Wii U has to climb uphill against what is probably the most poorly engineered console from a big-three platform holder, an unpleasant and awkward user experience, a deficient set of services, and guaranteed droughts outside specific tentpole releases. Anyone making a sober judgment of its market value would probably avoid recommending the system over most of the competing options.
Every failing system fails this way. Game consoles gain value based on network effect -- the more people buy a system, the more online partners you have and the more likely the types of games you like will be successful (and therefore keep getting made.) Small differences in initial performance get magnified by the market, and it takes increasingly large levers to change the trends midstream (Sony was only able to revive PS3 with $300 of pricecuts, a redesign, and an enormously expensive effort to bring major titles to its system.)
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
Umm... thats WHY the WiiU has software droughts.
Mr. Poolman
Member
I think in the end, history will be kind with the WiiU.
A simple misunderstood console with a LOT of really good games.
A simple misunderstood console with a LOT of really good games.
Negative word of mouth hurting the system is real and has been in place before it launched. It's extends beyond just gamers and media to even developers and publishers who made it clear their disdain for Nintendo as a company and their decisions separate of any particular power or sales of a console.
Just in the same way Microsoft has a positive bias from developers, publishers, and games media from being the only American based company in the console race and the good will their investments of marketing dollars etc. have bought for them in the industry has kept them in the race, while the backlash and negative perception of the Xbox One and Microsoft's decisions have ultimately still hurt their bottom line.
People acting like word of mouth effecting perception doesn't happen or that marketing is the only thing that creates that perception are really perpetuating a false narrative.
Just in the same way Microsoft has a positive bias from developers, publishers, and games media from being the only American based company in the console race and the good will their investments of marketing dollars etc. have bought for them in the industry has kept them in the race, while the backlash and negative perception of the Xbox One and Microsoft's decisions have ultimately still hurt their bottom line.
People acting like word of mouth effecting perception doesn't happen or that marketing is the only thing that creates that perception are really perpetuating a false narrative.
RoninChaos
Member
So this is all the press' fault and not Nintendo for making a huge collection of shitty decisions and phoning it in?
I guess the press is the reason why EA pulled out, why third party support is non existent etc.
It's amazing how some Nintendo fans will make any excuse possible that doesn't blame Nintendo for their shitty management and damage to their brand.
kind of like the dreamcast, poorly timed based on the tech inside.
Good post man, summarizes the situation quite well.
charlequin
Banned
The software situation on the Vita emanates directly from the hardware design, just like the Wii U's. The PSP already showed us what kind of software you get when you release that type of system.
The idea isn't that one of these titles would help much in a vacuum, it's that being able to expect to play most multiplatform games on the system would do a lot to alleviate the perception of the system.
Word of mouth comes from hands-on experience. The population at large does not hold onto long-term biases the way you're suggesting. Every new generation is a good opportunity to reset perception. Unfortunately, in this case, Nintendo reset their perception from "good" to "bad."
Bayonetta 2's coming out soon!
Quadraphonic
Member
I just realized the issue in the OP.
His friend, once again, thinks the Wii U is just a tablet.
"Cheaper local multiplayer" = "Not having to buy multiple tablets"
God, Nintendo fucked up so hard marketing on this, it's going to be written about in text books for years.
His friend, once again, thinks the Wii U is just a tablet.
"Cheaper local multiplayer" = "Not having to buy multiple tablets"
God, Nintendo fucked up so hard marketing on this, it's going to be written about in text books for years.
RoninChaos
Member
Lol yes, yes it is.
Mr.Squirrel
Tom
I'm still laughing at the Nintendo abandoning e3 threads from last year.
Now that shit was hilarious.
Now that shit was hilarious.
by comparison the dreamcast had alot more 3rd party support.
ps2 killed dreamcast.
ps4 is killing the wii u
at least thats how I relate it to the dreamcast
theprodigy
Member
fixed
well that too, the arguments mount up like the rest of the thread.
I'm confused with how you're responding to me here. The Wii U not being at the standards of the 3DS has nothing to do with how the media is treating it. It has to do with the fact that the console is getting good software support compared to its competitors (and the 3DS) which is another problem entirely. Negativity reaches people who don't pay attention to the press, but not negativity that is a result of just the press itself.
Kabuki Quantum Lover
Member
Everything and anything is killing the Wii U, Nintendo included.
Mr Fahrenheit
Member
This right here.
I don't wish bad on Nintendo, and I want the WiiU to be great, but this month I'll have had the thing for a year and I only own one game for it, Monster Hunter. Well, three if you count Nintendoland, which it came with and I couldn't care less about, and Mighty Switch Force, which I could have gotten on the 3DS.
There's a lot of unfair hate towards a lot of things in many industries, but Nintendo brought a lot of this on itself.
KingJ2002
Member
Unpopular opinion... but I honestly believe that there a group in gaming media that is hell bent on seeing nintendo become a third party because they no longer wish to purchase a nintendo console.
Even when Nintendo was winning with the original wii... Nintendo was doomed for failure while their competitors could do no wrong. I honestly believe that Nintendo will get their next handheld / console combo right... but it wont matter to some influential people looking forward to Nintendo's demise.
As if oligopolies are great for the industry... smh
Even when Nintendo was winning with the original wii... Nintendo was doomed for failure while their competitors could do no wrong. I honestly believe that Nintendo will get their next handheld / console combo right... but it wont matter to some influential people looking forward to Nintendo's demise.
As if oligopolies are great for the industry... smh
Quadraphonic
Member
Oh yeah. It was all "They can do a Nintendo Direct! They'll be dropping bombs! It'll be awesome!"
And it turned out to just be Donkey Kong and some dioramas for nostalgic photos around their booth.
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