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This Wii U doom forecast is absolutely toxic

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ccbfan said:
Topics like this always remind me that Nintendo fans have a worshipping relationship with Nintendo.

They see Nintendo and their games in such a light that they can't imagine any other point of view.

Its literally like arguing with hardcore Christians.
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While this post could be offensive I see where he is coming from. A lot of hardcore Nintendo fans do have a worship like mentality with the company. Kind of like a cult to me.

Nintendo does not compromise, they do not discuss things with their audience or view them as competent. Just like the leaders of some religious organizations rely on people who do not ask questions and are content with getting repetition in a small pool of concerning topics about life.

Take for example question answer sessions with twitter and facebook. Nintendo will literally create and answer their own questions rather than truly address their consumers. They feel they know what is best and you should be content with all the choices they make.

Maybe they are afraid of negative press so they just do a shit job trying to stay neutral by controlling it as much as possible?

EDIT: As long as the company gives them Mario, Zelda, Pokemon and gives them good games, they can treat them however the hell they want. Horrible droughts, broken promises, poor online support etc. similar to how a cult can be mentally and emotionally harmful in someways but gives meaning and togetherness as a positive.
 
TAS said:
The Wii U was sabotaged with negativity from Day 1. And it all started right here.
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Actually, Nintendo did a pretty good job of sabotaging itself with its less-than-confident platform reveal back in 2011 that left a lot of us scratching our heads. Not even Nintendo knew what it had.

I still remember asking the Nintendo rep questions after I got to spend time with WiiU behind closed doors, and "I don't know, but more info will be coming" was the line du jour.

If you're going to reveal something, you need to do it with confidence... not just because "Oh, crap. Sales are tanking and we need something new, so let's throw this out there & see what happens."
 
Bundle the console with a Pro Controller instead of the GamePad and I'd buy it. I recently held the GamePad of a demo unit at a gamestop and I was not liking it.
 
H3XAntiStyle said:
I think at this point, the Wii U might be absolutely beyond saving due to the absolutely horrid word of mouth that games journalists are putting out on it. I honestly think that has been the single most damaging factor on this whole situation.
I say this because the other day, a friend of mine said that they could pick up a Wii for $150, and was asking if this was a good deal or not. It didn't come with any games, and I'm not sure if it came with controllers or not. Now, I'm not aware that $150 is a good price or not, but that's beyond the actual point. When he posted this, this was the day that the $200 Nintendoland Deluxe bundle was shown to be $200. I suggested that he consider that, as Nintendoland is an AMAZING couch multiplayer game, the system could play all Wii games, and he'd effectively be getting a better system for just the cost of the game he'd be playing.

His response? There was no way in hell he would ever get a Wii U, citing reasons like "Wii has cheaper local multiplayer (...wut?), and the system was already abandoned (...wasn't the Wii literally abandoned like 3 years ago, instead of being on Nintendo-only life support?).
Nevermind the fact that neither of those reasons make any sense, this guy was completely against getting a Wii U even though it's just a completely better buy given the price he was considering. And no, he never once mentioned Gamecube support, nor have I ever heard him mention one. He didn't want one, even though it would do -everything- he wanted it to do, and then some.

This is absolutely shocking to me -- Nintendo's problem isn't wholly marketing, it's that the entire gaming journalism scene has it out to completely destroy Nintendo's reputation, to the point where a no brainer purchase becomes completely out of the picture. What the hell happened here? I seriously hope that "Nintendoomed" doesn't end up being a self fulfilling prophecy, because that would be some major bullshit, as the Wii U is, IMO, a wonderful machine.
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Ok OP, let me address this.

Nintendo's problem isn't wholly marketing,
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Not is not. I believe there are other problems, which I have alluded on another post.

Lord-Audie said:
Getting late into this discussion, but is the gimmick discussion will change the fact that:

1. WiiU is not selling not even close to well compared to it's competitors.
2. WiiU game outlook doesn't look promising compared to it's competitors.
3. The gamepad has yet to prove that it has resonated with the market. (evidenced by the low sales.)

Posts can go back and fort about what a gimmick is or not, but it will not change these facts.
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Next,

it's that the entire gaming journalism scene has it out to completely destroy Nintendo's reputation, to the point where a no brainer purchase becomes completely out of the picture.
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This sounds like conspiracy theory to me OP. Sorry, but it reads that way. Look at my statements above and tell me if any of them is untrue. If you have an example of an article that deviates from any of those 3 to slander then post examples.

Also, the media has no responsibility on making the WiiU a no-brainer purchase. That is up to Nintendo to do and they have yet to do that.

I seriously hope that "Nintendoomed" doesn't end up being a self fulfilling prophecy, because that would be some major bullshit, as the Wii U is, IMO, a wonderful machine
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It is not a self fulfilling prophecy. It is something that is happening due to the decisions made by Nintendo.

We can go back and forth all you like on how awesome the WiiU is. I think that nothing will come out of that conversation because that's not the point. The point is that is not selling and Nintendo has yet to grasp how to fix that issue. The media is reporting on what they see, and what they see is those 3 points above.
 
R0ckman said:
While this post could be offensive I see where he is coming from. A lot of hardcore Nintendo fans do have a worship like mentality with the company. Kind of like a cult to me.

Nintendo does not compromise, they do not discuss things with their audience or view them as competent. Just like the leaders of some religious organizations rely on people who do not ask questions and are content with getting repetition in a small pool of concerning topics about life.

Take for example question answer sessions with twitter and facebook. Nintendo will literally create and answer their own questions rather than truly address their consumers. They feel they know what is best and you should be content with all the choices they make.

Maybe they are afraid of negative press so they just do a shit job trying to stay neutral by controlling it as much as possible?

EDIT: As long as the company gives them Mario, Zelda, Pokemon and gives them good games, they can treat them however the hell they want. Horrible droughts, broken promises, poor online support etc. similar to how a cult can be mentally and emotionally harmful in someways but gives meaning and togetherness as a positive.
Click to expand...

What did I just read?

So we're just a bunch of mindless cult members because we like to play good games? That's not even a good enough reason to take part in this hobby anymore? Really?
 
ccbfan said:
Topics like this always remind me that Nintendo fans have a worshipping relationship with Nintendo.

They see Nintendo and their games in such a light that they can't imagine any other point of view.
Click to expand...

And this is different from other groups of fanboys in what way? NeoGAF and other message boards are infested with large groups of fanatical fanboys of all stripes. Somewhere out there a hardcore Ouya fan typing away about his company's sales figures and posting memey animated gifs plastered with Ouya business figures.
 
TAS said:
The Wii U was sabotaged with negativity from Day 1. And it all started right here.
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Not really, at least not from the mainstream press. Quite a few major sites and papers tried to hype it up, expecting a repeat of the wii.

The disinterest seemed to be mainly from consumers themselves. Between the console itself, the relative un-novelty factor of touch these days, and people waiting to see what sony and Ms had in store for them, lead to a sort of 'wait and see' approach.

Now, the 3ds was in the same boat, but Nintendo was quick to react to to the vita, whcih initially had monster hype. Once Sony announced their disastrous memory card policy, nintendo was right where they needed to be, between games and price.

They haven't been so lucky this time. If MS hadn't done the 180, they may have been able to get themselves as a solid second place, but without a major misstep from ms or sony, there was little to attract the core gaming market, outside of the nintendo diehard.
 
m0t0k1 said:
Is raising my question marks because you want good stuff on wii u. But you want to see Nintendo and not just the wii u to fail because of some "design errors". I just can't understand that way of thinking because obviously both you and i want good things to happen.
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You're trivialising my perspective on these "design errors". I said it is a fundamentally flawed console, it's not that I just have a few problems with it, it's a disaster. They're also showing the same stubbornness and making the same mistakes in regards to things like third party support as they have done for the past 15 years.

I want good things to happen to Nintendo - but I fear after all this time - that the only way we'll get that is if Nintendo is forced to properly rethink themselves as a company. The typical reasons why a company is forced to do that? Flagship products failing and revenue and profit losses.
 
The WiiU screamed disaster before it got to the shelves, I don't know what Nintendo was thinking, they probably didn't expect the successors of the PS360 to show up in 2013.

If they really believed in the Gamepad, that is what the console should have being: a gaming tablet that connects to your TV for certain games, the technology was there for it.
 
I own a Wii U, but it's essentially a $350 ZombiU machine. That game is amazing, possibly the greatest survival horror game I've ever played but I've come to terms with the fact that I bought a console with a 2 year lifespan, game wise. The denial period has long passed.

The press didn't kill the Wii U, the Wii U killed the Wii U. The sales show that no one wants it. The online policies of Nintendo are draconian to the point where they actively discourage me from buying any more Wii U games. I was thinking about selling the system, but I might just wait it out and swoop up all the worthwhile games once they're thrown to the bargain bin.
 
Ishida said:
But here's the question: What does the media want to achieve by "dooming" the Wii U?

You seem to speak of some sort of evil agenda, but fail to explain WHY. Why the Wii U, and why not the PS4 for example? Does the media actually win something by "killing" the Wii U? What's in it for them?
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It's profit driven. The western media wants to make the competition look better. One of which happens to be a western company, and the other might as well be. They are paid to do so.

There is no integrity in most gaming "journalism".
 
RobFox64tm said:
What did I just read?

So we're just a bunch of mindless cult members because we like to play good games? That's not even a good enough reason to take part in this hobby anymore? Really?
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No,but the fact Nintendo make great games doesn't mean they shouldn't be criticized for their mistakes.
 
R0ckman said:
EDIT: As long as the company gives them Mario, Zelda, Pokemon and gives them good games, they can treat them however the hell they want. Horrible droughts, broken promises, poor online support etc. similar to how a cult can be mentally and emotionally harmful in someways but gives meaning and togetherness as a positive.
Click to expand...

You guys are starting to sound just as silly as the "videogames were only good back in the days, nintendo is the only company making good stuff" crowd.
 
R0ckman said:
While this post could be offensive I see where he is coming from. A lot of hardcore Nintendo fans do have a worship like mentality with the company. Kind of like a cult to me.
Click to expand...

Replace "Nintendo" with various other companies/entities and this statement still works. That's the issue (other than the swipe at religion which some didn't appreciate). There are fanboys of all stripes out there. This isn't a phenomenon limited to Nintendo by ANY means.
 
CosmicQueso said:
This has got to be tag worthy.

As posted above, indifference is the more likely culprit. The market just does not care about it.
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They just didn't have alot games for launch especially games that took advantage of the gamepad.

If you are going to have an console that is not a graphically powerhouse then you need some system sell games.

By then the ps4 and x1 hype trains were in full steam marketing mode plus the fact that all the media around DRM and ram etc really cast a shadow on the Wii u. Nintendo has no one to blame but themselves.

I wonder if they released smash, kart, Mario, etc in the first months. I wonder how things would have looked.
 
tengiants said:
It's profit driven. The western media wants to make the competition look better. One of which happens to be a western company, and the other might as well be. They are paid to do so.

There is no integrity in most gaming "journalism".
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I need some popcorn now... This is some Tom Clancy shit right here.

We should make a movie out of this, and it would sell more than the WiiU.
 
Freeman said:
The WiiU screamed disaster before it got to the shelves, I don't know what Nintendo was thinking, they probably didn't expect the successors of the PS360 to show up in 2013.
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When the Wii began its sales descent in 2010, demand grew for a new machine. Weakening software output for the Wii also hastened the console's departure from relevance.

So... Nintendo was caught with its pants down. It wasn't ready for the Wii bubble to burst, and was quickly thrown into recovery mode as the 3DS had also underwhelmed post-launch in 2011. Nintendo had its hand forced and felt that it had to show WiiU-- even in its nebulous state.

What surprised me was 2012 and the weird decisions that came pre-launch. $350? NintendoLand? Why are there so many ports of older multiplatform games? Are people really going to buy this? I knew then that WiiU would have an uphill battle, and that was before Sony and MS arrived with their Gen8 competition.

I can't help but to feel that WiiU was a reaction, instead of a natural action, for Nintendo... and the company is still is reactive mode. On the defensive. Not a lot of confidence, no matter how much of a badass front that Reggie Fils-Aime tries to show.
 
Freeman said:
The WiiU screamed disaster before it got to the shelves, I don't know what Nintendo was thinking, they probably didn't expect the successors of the PS360 to show up in 2013.

If they really believed in the Gamepad, that is what the console should have being: a gaming tablet that connects to your TV for certain games, the technology was there for it.
Click to expand...

it was iffy back then, and then you have local multiplayer issues as well. Heck, it's iffy now, to be honest.
 
tengiants said:
It's profit driven. The western media wants to make the competition look better. One of which happens to be a western company, and the other might as well be. They are paid to do so.

There is no integrity in most gaming "journalism".
Click to expand...

You forgot to add that third parties are also involved in sabotaging Nintendo and the Wii U.
 
tengiants said:
It's profit driven. The western media wants to make the competition look better. One of which happens to be a western company, and the other might as well be. They are paid to do so.

There is no integrity in most gaming "journalism".
Click to expand...

That makes absolutely no sense. Why would the media want Nintendo dead, but not Sony? Sony is a Japanese company, and so far it's been nothing but praise for the PS4.

So far, NO ONE has been able to tell me WHY the media would want Nintendo dead.
 
Petrae said:
When the Wii began its sales descent in 2010, demand grew for a new machine. Weakening software output for the Wii also hastened the console's departure from relevance.

So... Nintendo was caught with its pants down. It wasn't ready for the Wii bubble to burst, and was quickly thrown into recovery mode as the 3DS had also underwhelmed post-launch in 2011. Nintendo had its hand forced and felt that it had to show WiiU-- even in its nebulous state.

What surprised me was 2012 and the weird decisions that came pre-launch. $350? NintendoLand? Why are there so many ports of older multiplatform games? Are people really going to buy this? I knew then that WiiU would have an uphill battle, and that was before Sony and MS arrived with their Gen8 competition.

I can't help but to feel that WiiU was a reaction, instead of a natural action, for Nintendo... and the company is still is reactive mode. On the defensive. Not a lot of confidence, no matter how much of a badass front that Reggie Fils-Aime tries to show.
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The 3ds needed some TLC and that took away from the Wii u but still. Kart and smash shouldn't have taken so long to make. The kart team was done with kart 7 and they could have contracted namco long before for smash. They just wasn't prepared. Arrogance is what I will describe nintendo for the Wii u launch. I am fine with the gamepad and the specs. It was the games that was an issue for me.

They got lucky with the Wii and yet acted like Wii u will be an automatic success.

I will say that nintendo did not have the competition at launch like Sony and ms. Sony and ms made each other work harder. Many changes were made last minute from both sides because of the competition. Nintendo really didn't have that. It is not an excuse but I wonder if nintendo launched along side the other two if specs would have changed.
 
Qassim said:
You're trivialising my perspective on these "design errors". I said it is a fundamentally flawed console, it's not that I just have a few problems with it, it's a disaster. They're also showing the same stubbornness and making the same mistakes in regards to things like third party support as they have done for the past 15 years.

I want good things to happen to Nintendo - but I fear after all this time - that the only way we'll get that is if Nintendo is forced to properly rethink themselves as a company. The typical reasons why a company is forced to do that? Flagship products failing and revenue and profit losses.
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I think i finally understand you. but i disagree on the conclusion part. What made it so confusing is that you are willing to intoxicate yourself and drink the poison until nintendo decides to serve something else. I see lots of people having this mindset but that is their choice so i won't press you any further. Still baffles my mind that people think this way but i can accpet it. For me Nintendo gets most of the things right with the wii u but i know i am in a minority and think that nintendo needs to work on things and step it up.
 
It's a little annoying, but I understand the doom stuff. It wasn't all "doom" before it came out (certainly some negativity but nothing like now). Nintendo has a very bad console (not just specs but OS and online-connectivity-wise) with some great games. Unfortunately, those great games all have a cartoony art style. All of them. It doesn't help to give a broad image.
 
Exile20 said:
Is it his fault that the PS4 and X1 launched a year later?

He wants to play games NOW.

The point is, he wants to play the exclusives now and that is why he has a Wii U and is playing it today and not wait 16 months more to decide which console he should play.
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I have no idea where you're getting that from. His post seemed like a pretty typical "look, PS4/XB1 has no game, Wii U has so many!" post to me.

jello44 said:
You forgot to add that third parties are also involved in sabotaging Nintendo and the Wii U.
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Wanting a return on your investment = sabotage now?
 
AntiFacebook said:
No,but the fact Nintendo make great games doesn't mean they shouldn't be criticized for their mistakes.
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Not all Nintendo fans are guilty of this though, me especially. Unless I am to understand that refusing to play said games is the only way to be truly critical of the company, of course.
 
Eurogamers interview with Monster Hunter creator today:

"A lot of people say they would buy Monster Hunter if it was available on non-Nintendo hardware. Why not release the game on some of the platforms that are more popular in the west, such as the PlayStation and the Xbox?"

"But what about Xbox and PlayStation? Those platforms are more popular in the west than 3DS. Wouldn't Monster Hunter be more popular in the west if it was on the platforms that are most popular in the west?"

"Can you understand where people who call for Monster Hunter on other platforms are coming from?"
 
tengiants said:
It's profit driven. The western media wants to make the competition look better. One of which happens to be a western company, and the other might as well be. They are paid to do so.

There is no integrity in most gaming "journalism".
Click to expand...

That tinfoil hat is awfully shiny.

In essence, you are claiming that Western gaming media is paid to promote the XBO (despite the mixed reaction to DRM) and the PS4? And, because Nintendo isn't paying its protection money, it's being driven to failure?

We'll totally forget those press articles that talked about WiiU in a positive light last November, recommending it-- and Super Mario 3D World-- for holiday purchase.

We'll also just exonerate Nintendo from any culpability here. The House of Iwata is clean. Blame consumers, retailers, gaming press, Obama... hell, anyone and everyone else!
 
inopedes said:
Eurogamers interview with Monster Hunter creator today:

"A lot of people say they would buy Monster Hunter if it was available on non-Nintendo hardware. Why not release the game on some of the platforms that are more popular in the west, such as the PlayStation and the Xbox?"

"But what about Xbox and PlayStation? Those platforms are more popular in the west than 3DS. Wouldn't Monster Hunter be more popular in the west if it was on the platforms that are most popular in the west?"

"Can you understand where people who call for Monster Hunter on other platforms are coming from?"
Click to expand...

Nothing said here was false, and they are valid questions.
 
Mysterious said:
Wat.

That thing was on the Ellen Degeneres show.
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*sigh* Yes, but hardcore game journalists still dumped all over it, didn't they? The difference here that no one wants to recognize is that the Wii had software that had mass appeal and caused people to want to buy the hardware; the Wii U doesn't.

But no one in this thread will ever blame the software. We must kneel at the altar of our infallible Nintendo gods, Miyamoto and Iwata, and never concede that maybe, just maybe the games aren't good enough, and maybe, just MAYBE the Wii U gets a bad rap because it sells like shit and not the other way around.
 
I feel like I'm in some weird bizarro world TBH. I don't know, I personally love the Wii U. I have about 20 retail games for it, and it is my most played console, despite owning a PS4 and a very powerful PC. I admit, the initial Wii U unveiling in 2011 was done very poorly, as I'm a big Nintendo fan and even I was like "huh?"

But once I saw the games for the system I just had to jump in. I guess the public at large just doesn't care about Nintendo's core franchises that much anymore. Regardless of their BS online system, and plenty of horrible decisions over the years, I think this is really the primary issue. Well that, and poor customer perception. The gaming media constantly talking about Nintendoom certainly doesn't help.
 
Petrae said:
That tinfoil hat is awfully shiny.

In essence, you are claiming that Western gaming media is paid to promote the XBO (despite the mixed reaction to DRM) and the PS4? And, because Nintendo isn't paying its protection money, it's being driven to failure?

We'll totally forget those press articles that talked about WiiU in a positive light last November, recommending it-- and Super Mario 3D World-- for holiday purchase.

We'll also just exonerate Nintendo from any culpability here. The House of Iwata is clean. Blame consumers, retailers, gaming press, Obama... hell, anyone and everyone else!
Click to expand...
I remember those but a few positive articles at the end of the year isn't going to break though months of negative coverage. Especially when that positive last for what a week at most and then the negativity starts back up. For the longest time in general gaming media couldn't post a Nintendo story without someone putting a negative spin on it. Even when the news was 100% good they found a way to spin it at the end. There were threads here on gaf I believe talking about this as others started to notice this.

Nintendo has plenty of blame in how they handled things. They continue to be the one that should be blamed. They're the ones I'm upset with when it comes to the Wii U and it's lack of variety of games, not just form third parties but from Nintendo itself. Their hands are not clean and they should have crap thrown at them when deserved. That's the thing though, when deserved. When it seems constant even at times when it's clearly not deserved it's not hard to think there is something going on.
 
Valjean Lafitte said:
*sigh* Yes, but hardcore game journalists still dumped all over it, didn't they? The difference here that no one wants to recognize is that the Wii had software that had mass appeal and caused people to want to buy the hardware; the Wii U doesn't.

But no one in this thread will ever blame the software. We must kneel at the altar of our infallible Nintendo gods, Miyamoto and Iwata, and never concede that maybe, just maybe the games aren't good enough, and maybe, just MAYBE the Wii U gets a bad rap because it sells like shit and not the other way around.
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This is heavily predicated on the idea that all good games sell, which is definitely not true at all. I agree with your second point though.
 
TAS said:
The Wii U was sabotaged with negativity from Day 1. And it all started right here.
Click to expand...

The only people who sabotaged the Wii-U are Nintendo themselves. Blaming anyone else for the failure is incorrect.
 
Nintendo has been a little short sited. As a person who WANTS to buy a wii u I havent been able to talk myself into it. Thing that would have gotten me to buy a wii U?

1. being able to play gamecube and wii games with a pro controller.
2. being able to play wii games on the GAMEPAD!(with working buttons).
3. having an account system and a large catalog of n64 and gamecube games to download online.
4. A healthy stream of HD remakes.
5. If I could have played brawl with a pro controller it would have been an instabuy.

I think the wii U could have positioned itself like the vita(lol) with an emphasis on playing games on the tablet and downloadable titlles. Because the u wouldnt need to be connected to a screen, it would be the most portable console.

No. The wii U hasnt been sabotaged. Everything about the Wii U is a bit messy. Wii mode, 50,000 peripherals, some peripherals only work in certain modes, no account system, not enough downloadable titles,
 
inopedes said:
Sure & i hope they badger the makers of Titanfall on why they are not releasing on Playstation, and then badger all other single format game creators they interview. Doubt they will though.
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I'm pretty sure questions about exclusivity come up all the time to pretty much everyone who isn't a first party.
 
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