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[tehrik-e-insaaf]

So recently I came across this article - http://www.kotaku.com.au/2012/12/the-wii-u-isnt-just-a-large-scale-ds-its-one-in-spirit-as-well/ - with a great quote

Ever since the DS, Yamauchi’s philosophy of adding something unique has lived on and can be seen in every console. Now with the Wii U, the philosophy has manifested in taking a TV console and giving it a second screen. Said Iwata, “Mr Yamauchi had no direct input in the development of the Wii U, but indirectly, you could say his idea from the DS is connected.”

and it got me thinking about a bunch of things Yamauchi said about ~20 years ago in particular, some comments he made during the SNES era when NOA was dropping the ball vs. Sega

http://www.businessweek.com/stories/1994-02-20/nintendos-yamauchi-no-more-playing-around

some gold nuggets in that article - including Nintendo's reliance on third parties vs. first party production (there was a time, when Sega had the issue of depending too much on first party titles and Nintendo wanted to be more like Sega in that respect) - as well as harsh comments towards Arakawa, Yamauchi's son-in-law

but more interesting - Yamauchi talks a lot about the rise of shovelware (i.e. Wii) and his remedy being to expand in-house output and support independent game developers and give them tools to build great games (something he consistently did with the Q fund during the Gamecube)

So for the Project Reality game machine due next year, Yamauchi will develop most of the initial games in-house or through joint ventures. He'll let independents have the software "tools" to create games. But he'll shun the big software conferences that Sega and 3DO have used to encourage independents. "We're better off, at first, with a few good titles," he says. "Lots of software just means lots of bad software."

I realized this is something Nintendo has been really doing incredibly well behind the scenes recently with the Wii U in Japan

Some examples

1. Namco Bandai / Smash (great article and comments - http://www.siliconera.com/2012/08/2...endo-chose-namco-bandai-for-super-smash-bros/ )

“Also, we’ve continually developed a very good relationship with Nintendo,” Harada continued. “Maybe not necessarily in the public spotlight but kind of behind the scenes. We have established a very good working relationship with them. Not just Nintendo, but as a company, we have a very good relationship with Sakurai-san at Sora as well. I think that we are in very good position to make a great game for the Smash Brothers series.”

2. Team Ninja (Metroid Other M, Ninja Gaiden 3) http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2012/08/team_ninja_interested_in_another_nintendo_collaboration

3. Platinum Games (Bayonetta 2, Wonderful 101)
http://www.qj.net/qjnet/wii/hideki-kamiya-wants-nintendo-to-force-him-to-make-a-star-fox-game.html

4. Monolithsoft (purchased probably because the talent had stuck around under Namco ownership for a long time, and a Nintendo purchase would not lead to an exodus) - also given a lot of creative freedom and modeling themselves after Bethesda - http://www.vg247.com/2012/12/16/xenoblade-developer-wants-to-be-something-like-bethesda/

5. Good-Feel (ex-Konami staff members, gave them Kirby and Wario IP) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good-Feel

6. Mistwalker (http://www.siliconera.com/2012/06/16/mistwalker-would-like-to-develop-wii-u-action-rpgs/)

7. Grezzo (developed Zelda Ocarina of Time 3D, run by Koichi Ishii - the Director of Secret of Mana, FF XI) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grezzo)

I won't go through and make all the references to the devs out there working or collaborating with Nintendo in some way (simple Google searches will show a bunch more), needless to say there are countless more examples of top notch dev teams that are now working with Nintendo... so they really have their act together with regards to top-notch Japanese talent and attracting them to work on Nintendo IP or generally to collaborate with on various projects...

Now what I want to know - what about the West? Nintendo had a long history of working with and developing great European talent (Rare, DMA Design which later went on to do GTA) and taking risks in the American market for talent (Retro, Silicon Knights, Left Field)... Some worked out and some did not (Silicon Knights imploded, Left Field bought back the minority interest Nintendo had in them, Retro went on to fame and glory before self-imploding earlier this year and rebuilding again through the summer)...

We know NST recently picked up Yasuhara-San (http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/...kazu_Yasuhara_joins_Nintendo.php#.UOLe42_LR8E) and Retro recently picked up a bunch of folks from Naughty Dog after a post-Metroid Prime 3 / DKCR exodus from the company and even picked up a few devs in Japan...

But other than those - what is Nintendo doing in the West other than talking to large publishers and hoping for hand-me-downs? Of course the market is far more competitive in the West so getting devs to work exclusively with them is going to be harder compared to Japan where Nintendo is the big fish... still, there is a LOT of talent out there, and it seems like Nintendo doesn't have much of a gameplan... Iwata talks about supporting developers (http://www.siliconera.com/2012/06/1...ecedented-third-party-partnerships-for-wii-u/) but I don't see a lot of it, infact his own comments seem to be pretty focused on helping Japanese developers access international markets (http://www.siliconera.com/2011/10/3...3ds-titles-outside-japan/#x0zRg6TYmUcLwKjy.99)...

Iwata believes that the Nintendo 3DS presents a “great opportunity” for Japanese publishers to expand their market outside Japan. While Nintendo products sell well worldwide, regardless of whether they’re on a portable or console, the same doesn’t hold true for other Japanese developers. To address this issue, Iwata says that Nintendo will identify third-party 3DS games with strong overseas potential, and will collaborate with their publishers to turn these games into hits.

Compare that to Sony who is pushing indie (Thatgamecompany) as well as Western/European internal studios but has basically dropped the ball with respect to their Japanese relationships.. It's incredible how Team Ico imploded, and Sony has basically one other studio working on a relative modest project (Puppeteer).. but no other Japanese talent other than that...

While there are some positive signs from Nintendo ... i.e. improved relationship with indie developers - http://venturebeat.com/2012/11/27/nintendo-wii-u-eshop-indie-developers/

I still don't see the kinds of large scale collaborations and risks being taken on US or European development talent that Nintendo is doing in Japan... Unless of course Nintendo's plan is to work directly with publishers for hand-me-downs while they scale up NST/Retro and not to worry about other up and coming studios... Nintendo would still have zero exposure to Europe though outside of small collaborations with Ubisoft...

Is this is an issue? Is Nintendo holding back info? Should they just focus more on internal studios rather than trying to find competent development studios to take a bet on? I'd be curious to hear what other peoples' thoughts are...

My four suggestions for Nintendo

1. Get CliffyB! He has a great network of developers and has a bit of a cult following given his work... Let him setup in the East Coast where there is a bigger pool of talent and less demand for it. I think ultimately Bethesda will pick him up but given he wants to do something that isn't just another shooter... Nintendo is the one company that offers him that opportunity to get a truly global reach for his next work

2. Possibly collaborate with some of the up and coming Texas studios like Armature (MGS HD Collection, ex-Retro staffers like Jack Matthews) - less competition for those resources relative to the West Coast, and more value for the dollar

3. The UK is really, really competitive now, but I think Germany and France still have some great smaller studios and there is a great opportunity to collaborate with some of the folks there

4. Sweetheart deals with indies for 1+ year exclusivity agreements and give the best ones a chance to work on second tier IPs Nintendo is sitting on

 

[JoeInky]

Retro went on to fame and glory before self-imploding earlier this year and rebuilding again through the summer

Wait, what? Do they still have the same staff members and everything? What happened? I thought they just expanded a bit.

 

[the androgyne]

Iwata actually outlined the reason for absorbing Monolith in the 2006 Financial Results Q&A.

When we say we do not do M&A, there are always exceptions, so let me explain about it. We have never said that we will never do M&A in any situation. Actually, we are not against M&A if Nintendo can absorb the real value of the company. However, in most cases, the value of software developing companies is attached to its people, not the company, which is merely a vessel for its people. So, when we purchase a company, we can purchase the vessel, but we cannot necessarily purchase the contents. Even if we should compete with others to purchase a software company, although we might be able to increase the sheer number of our developers and to gain a short-term result, we do not think it will do good for us in the long run. We have been repeatedly saying that we will not do that kind of M&A.

In the case of Monolith Software, Mr. Sugiura, the president, and Nintendo have a long-term relationship. How Mr. Sugiura thinks is close to how Nintendo thinks. The software Mr. Sugiura would like to create is in line with what Nintendo would like to have for its platform. So, we thought that Nintendo should support this idea, and we decided to take action.

If certain conditions are met, we may do the same thing in the future (M&A). However, we will be very careful and selective, so that we will only partner with people with whom Nintendo can create a long-term working relationship.

Basically similar to what you suggested. I'd say in line with what he says, they're just very choosy, and it's just bound to be easier for them to know in the first place, and make these relationships with developers in Japan than anywhere else.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

Wait, what? Do they still have the same staff members and everything? What happened? I thought they just expanded a bit.

Retro's had major staff turnover after basically every project.

 

[Takao]

Compare that to Sony who is pushing indie (Thatgamecompany) as well as Western/European internal studios but has basically dropped the ball with respect to their Japanese relationships.. It's incredible how Team Ico imploded, and Sony has basically one other studio working on a relative modest project (Puppeteer).. but no other Japanese talent other than that...

wut

The majority of Sony's Japanese output are joint productions with outside Japanese developers, you know like six you just listed for Nintendo. This gen the company has worked with Pyramid (Patapon series), Crispy's (Tokyo Jungle), Level-5 (White Knight Chronicles series), From Software (Demon's Souls), MarvelousAQL (Soul Sacrifice), Acquire (My Lord/No Heroes Allowed series), Alfa System (Over My Dead Body series), and more. They even have an indie program (just like you're praising Nintendo for) called PlayStation C.A.M.P. that birthed titles like Tokyo Jungle, Patchwork Heroes, LocoRoco and more... Sony's Japanese problems stems from Japan Studio, and Polyphony struggling to release internal projects on a regular basis.

 

[Meatvillain]

I don't have a lot to add, but just wanted to say I really enjoyed reading the OP.

 

[massoluk]

Iwata actually outlined the reason for absorbing Monolith in the 2006 Financial Results Q&A.



Basically similar to what you suggested. I'd say in line with what he says, they're just very choosy, and it's just bound to be easier for them to know in the first place, and make these relationships with developers in Japan than anywhere else.

So they are into buying the talents behind the studio, not the studio's ip or some buildings.
I approve.

 

[Laguna]

So they are into buying the talents behind the studio, not the studio's ip or some buildings.
I approved.

Hudson -> NDCube comes to mind.

wut

The majority of Sony's Japanese output are joint productions with outside Japanese developers, you know like six you just listed for Nintendo. This gen the company has worked with Pyramid (Patapon series), Crispy's (Tokyo Jungle), Level-5 (White Knight Chronicles series), From Software (Demon's Souls), MarvelousAQL (Soul Sacrifice), Acquire (My Lord/No Heroes Allowed series), Alfa System (Over My Dead Body series), and more. They even have an indie program (just like you're praising Nintendo for) called PlayStation C.A.M.P. that birthed titles like Tokyo Jungle, Patchwork Heroes, LocoRoco and more... Sony's Japanese problems stems from Japan Studio, and Polyphony struggling to release internal projects on a regular basis.

it doesn´t look like that their relationship with level5 is as good anymore, the same with from software (multiplatform DarkSoul 1+2)

 

[IrishNinja]

a lot of that - especially the follow-up bit where iwata talks about the decision with monolith - sounds like the kind've management i wish companies like Konami had before buying Hudson Soft, for example

I don't have a lot to add, but just wanted to say I really enjoyed reading the OP.

basically wanted to say this. looking forward to alberto, shikimaru and others' input here as well, sub'd.

 

[test_account]

It shall be interesting to see what Nintendo will make for the WiiU.

and Retro recently picked up a bunch of folks from Naughty Dog after a post-Metroid Prime 3 / DKCR exodus from the company and even picked up a few devs in Japan...

Wasnt it only one guy (envoirment artist)? They apparently hired someone who worked on Darksiders too, but i've only heard about one guy who worked at Naughty Dog.

it doesn´t look like that their relationship with level5 is as good anymore, the same with from software (multiplatform DarkSoul 1+2)

How so?

 

[Neoriceisgood]

Don't have much to add like some other guys said as well, but cool thread.

 

[Takao]

it doesn´t look like that their relationship with level5 is as good anymore, the same with from software (multiplatform DarkSoul 1+2)

So because Mistwalker is now making iOS games, and Koei-Tecmo will port Razor's Edge to PS3/360 we can assume those two must not like Nintendo either? The only reason I bring up those two is because they're listed in the OP. Mistwalker is a flaky one as they'll go to whoever will pay for their projects to be made.

 

[Tenki]

Hudson -> NDCube comes to mind.

Yep. They should buy the Hudson IPs as well, and let NDcube develop games with those IPs. I want Bomberman 3DS

 

[daycru]

I don't have a lot to add, but just wanted to say I really enjoyed reading the OP.

Same here, good thread.

 

[Aquamarine]

It's fascinating just how many collaborations Nintendo has really done over the years with other major 3rd party Japanese publishers...

Developed by Sega's internal studios:

Mario and Sonic at the Olympic Games
Mario and Sonic at the Olympic Winter Games
Mario and Sonic at the London 2012 Olympic Games
F-Zero AX (arcade)
F-Zero GX

Developed by Square Enix's internal studios:

Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles
Mario Sports Mix
Fortune Street
Mario Hoops 3-on-3

Developed by Konami's internal studios:

Dance Dance Revolution: Mario Mix
Metal Gear Solid: the Twin Snakes (co-developed w/ Silicon Knights)

Developed by Tecmo Koei's internal studios:

Fatal Frame 4 (co-developed w/ Grasshopper Manufacture)
Fatal Frame 2 Remake
Pokemon Conquest
Metroid: Other M (co-developed with Project M)
Ninja Gaiden 3: Razor's Edge

Developed by Capcom's internal studios:

The Legend of Zelda: The Minish Cap
The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Seasons
The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Ages
The Legend of Zelda: Link to the Past & Four Swords

Developed by Namco Bandai's internal studios:

Mario Kart Arcade GP
Donkey Konga
Donkey Konga 2
Donkey Konga 3
Star Fox Assault
Mario Superstar Baseball
Mario Super Sluggers
Mario Kart Arcade GP 2
Super Smash Bros. 4 (upcoming) (co-developed w/ HAL Laboratory and Sora Ltd.)


...When they have practically ZERO collaborations with major Western 3rd-party publishers like EA or Activision. I like to think that Nintendo maintains healthy relationships with the old guard in Japan for the sake of domestic profits. But it leaves me questioning how serious Nintendo is about its overseas support.

 

[tehrik-e-insaaf]

What I meant to say about Sony is that they are very clearly investing their resources away from developers who are Japanese and more broadly, Japan-centric and more into Western studios - you can see it with the composition of their first/second party relationships =)

Nintendo on the other hand seems to be doing collaborations much more frequently, and yes, investing money and time, for exclusive content from these developers and studios - which is a huge difference from the Gamecube where they tried to get publishers signed up for the console and usually failed in securing exclusive content to stay on the system (I think Twin Snakes was one of the few collaborations that stayed exclusive and that is because Nintendo bankrolled the entire project)

One could argue it is because Nintendo still has a huge 3DS and future Wii U userbase they want to protect with good software in their local market - so I'm not saying Nintendo is altruistic here, but it's a huge difference from where they were - and certainly Sony is in a very different situation than where they were as their publisher-level relationships have gone multi-platform and their internal studios are pretty limited in Japan

as for Retro hiring people from Naughty Dog - I heard it was three - and they picked up a few folks from Disney, EA, Bioware, etc - but Nintendo is already expecting a quarter or third of their very best staff to leave after the Wii U project gets completed so the staff they have come up with since the summer isn't suited for 2-3 projects - whereas MP1-3 had a core group of staff that was really great and stuck around 5-6 years (in spite of some of the reported turn over after MP1)

One thing I can say is that in terms of hardware-level programming - Retro gets an A with the folks they have - simply awesome programmers that know how to push the metal and some folks who really *GET* GPGPU programming - it's some of the artists and gameplay designers I'm more worried about =)

 

[Laguna]

So because Mistwalker is now making iOS games, and Koei-Tecmo will port Razor's Edge to PS3/360 we can assume those two must not like Nintendo either? The only reason I bring up those two is because they're listed in the OP. Mistwalker is a flaky one as they'll go to whoever will pay for their projects to be made.

I specifically talked about Level5 and FromSoftware who seem to be more interested into multiplatform/independant releasess nowadays. Or have there been any hints after Whight Knight Chronicles 2 (2010) that Level5 is working on any project under Sonys order?

 

[Takao]

What I meant to say about Sony is that they are very clearly investing their resources away from developers who are Japanese and more broadly, Japan-centric and more into Western studios - you can see it with the composition of their first/second party relationships =)

Nintendo on the other hand seems to be doing collaborations much more frequently, and yes, investing money and time, for exclusive content from these developers and studios - which is a huge difference from the Gamecube where they tried to get publishers signed up for the console and usually failed in securing exclusive content to stay on the system (I think Twin Snakes was one of the few collaborations that stayed exclusive and that is because Nintendo bankrolled the entire project)

Fair enough. Sony doesn't really invest in Japan, and Vita's sales in particular demonstrates that fact. To be honest, the catalyst for me barking at you was the comment about them lacking talent. A comment I found really difficult to agree with given things like this, haha.

I specifically talked about Level5 and FromSoftware who seem to be more interested into multiplatform/independant releasess nowadays. Or have there been any hints after Whight Knight Chronicles 2 (2010) that Level5 is working on any project under Sonys order?

There's no real reason for Level-5 to work with Sony now. Level-5 is concentrated in self-publishing, and the majority of their games are aimed at a demographic who don't own PlayStation platforms. I don't think that says anything about their relationship with Sony.

 

[tehrik-e-insaaf]

Fair enough. Sony doesn't really invest in Japan, and Vita's sales in particular demonstrates that fact. To be honest, the catalyst for me barking at you was the comment about them lacking talent. A comment I found really difficult to agree with given things like this, haha.

I'm sorry I didn't mean their current devs were untalented, I was referring more to the quantity of talent under their exclusive employ (contracted or internal). I have great respect for Toyama-san - he has a lot of following in the industry as well for his work on Silent Hill =)

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

So because Mistwalker is now making iOS games, and Koei-Tecmo will port Razor's Edge to PS3/360 we can assume those two must not like Nintendo either? The only reason I bring up those two is because they're listed in the OP. Mistwalker is a flaky one as they'll go to whoever will pay for their projects to be made.

Most devs will go to whomever will pay for their projects to be made. Stop being so salty over Mistwalker.

 

[test_account]

as for Retro hiring people from Naughty Dog - I heard it was three - and they picked up a few folks from Disney, EA, Bioware, etc - but Nintendo is already expecting a quarter or third of their very best staff to leave after the Wii U project gets completed so the staff they have come up with since the summer isn't suited for 2-3 projects - whereas MP1-3 had a core group of staff that was really great and stuck around 5-6 years (in spite of some of the reported turn over after MP1)

Do you have any more info on this? I've only heard about 1 guy from Naughty Dog and one guy from Virgil Games. It wouldnt surprise me if there were more people, but it would be interesting to read more about it.

 

[DXB-KNIGHT]

I want just to see new games ;_; instead of just looking at new videos of games announced years ago, I can't believe Luigi's Mansion took that long and it's a collaboration game.

 

[radcliff]

as for Retro hiring people from Naughty Dog - I heard it was three - and they picked up a few folks from Disney, EA, Bioware, etc - but Nintendo is already expecting a quarter or third of their very best staff to leave after the Wii U project gets completed so the staff they have come up with since the summer isn't suited for 2-3 projects - whereas MP1-3 had a core group of staff that was really great and stuck around 5-6 years (in spite of some of the reported turn over after MP1)

I'm curious. Where did you get this information? Is it speculation based on what Retro has experienced in the past with each game's release or do you actually know something?

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

I'm sorry I didn't mean their current devs were untalented, I was referring more to the quantity of talent under their exclusive employ (contracted or internal). I have great respect for Toyama-san - he has a lot of following in the industry as well for his work on Silent Hill =)

It's not just internal or exclusive, Sony's lack of investment and interest in Japan is acknowledged by the national industry at large. Even 3 years ago Square Enix CEO Yoichi Wada said this:

“But now Nintendo is practically the only console manufacturer based in Japan…so the console manufacturer as a hub is now missing.”

3rd parties essentially consider Sony a western company today.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Yep. They should buy the Hudson IPs as well, and let NDcube develop games with those IPs. I want Bomberman 3DS

I wish they'd get Bomberman.

Spoiler

and Banjo.

Nintendo getting Cliffy B would be pretty good I suppose. I'd love to see more western Nintendo love.

 

[tehrik-e-insaaf]

My Retro comments are based on rumors and speculation... I could be (and am probably) totally wrong =) I don't have any inside information...

I can point to this blog run by Emily Rogers who has a questionable track record insofar as having inside information, but I can say that it lines up with some of the... uhm... sentiment... at Quakecon

http://emilyrogersblog.wordpress.co...-studios-rocky-development-for-wii-u-project/

I want Nintendo to get Itagaki, but that's impossible.

Yeah unfortunately he burned so many bridges during the Xbox era and left Tecmo on terrible terms... He is basically untouchable right now in the Japanese development community... The President of Tecmo hates him for the bonus litigation and the sexual harrassment issues... He has been pushing for attention from Nintendo especially since Valhalla and Devil's Third were dumped by a nearly insolvent THQ... but Nintendo would be taking a huge risk and potentially compromise their existing relationship with Tecmo to gamble on Itagaki delivering...

Still... who knows? Iwata is a developer and he was known to have a pretty eccentric personality (one of the reasons Yamauchi liked him so much) so I could see him talking to Itagaki about picking up D3rd... Nintendo does work pretty actively with Mistwalker and Sakaguchi now and we all know THAT history...

You look at Kamiya and Mikami, and they were not on very good terms with Nintendo after the Capcom 5 folded... but Kamiya managed to recover his relationship with Nintendo behind the scenes and through a lot of public statements about his affection for Nintendo IP... Inafume was in a lot of trouble and he kind of abused Nintendo IP saying that people just play it for nostalgia purposes in a McKinsey Quarterly interview... but later he came back and said how much he respected Nintendo in a Wired interview (probably because he started working on 3DS stuff)... Mikami tried to recover his Nintendo relationship and he did to a large extent, but RE4 going to PS2 was really rough to recover from so I mean obviously Nintendo wasn't jumping up and down to fund Tango Gameworks... Mikami also wanted to make a statement in the West about Japanese talent so it made less sense for him to do something exclusive with Nintendo anyways...

Interestingly, Nintendo/Capcom were on bad terms through most of the Wii's lifecycle and Nintendo supposedly didn't allow Mega Man to be in Smash Brothers Brawl because it was still fairly bitter over that betrayal...

 

[Subaru]

I want Nintendo to get Itagaki, but that's impossible.

I don't really enjoy a lot of western games, so from MY perspective, I love that Nintendo is investing in partnership with japanese companies. Because THEY do the games that I like.

That said, I think we can never forget the partnership between Nintendo and Ubisoft. It's really obvious that Nintendo really treats them well, because Ubisoft is the ONLY western company to fully suport the Wii - and they are already supporting Wii U.

 

[test_account]

My Retro comments are based on rumors and speculation... I could be (and am probably) totally wrong =) I don't have any inside information...

I can point to this blog run by Emily Rogers who has a questionable track record insofar as having inside information, but I can say that it lines up with some of the... uhm... sentiment... at Quakecon

http://emilyrogersblog.wordpress.co...-studios-rocky-development-for-wii-u-project/

Fair enough, and thanks for the link =) That article does actually say the opposite by the way, it says that Retro employees were applying for jobs at Bioware after the WiiU project is done, not that Retro was hiring people from Bioware. But i'm looking forward to see how Retro's game will be. I'm sure they have some good talent there and they probably hired in some talented people as well during the last few years.

 

[Alexios]

When they have practically ZERO collaborations with major Western 3rd-party publishers like EA or Activision.

They worked closely with Activision for Guitar Hero, EA for WiiU online implementation, have helped Ubisoft here and there (with Red Steel 2 for one), and so on... Not making a full NIntendo IP game (I can't think of Western studios I'd want that from anyway) for them, or not returning the sentiment with as much, I dunno, loyalty, that doesn't mean zero collaborations. And of course they do occasionally work a lot with smaller teams. Monster, Headstrong, etc. It would be nice if they did more for sure and despite this you missed a ton of their Japanese collaborations so it's still attitude skewed toward Japan but that's obvious.

 

[Aquamarine]

They worked closely with Activision for Guitar Hero, EA for WiiU online implementation, have helped Ubisoft here and there (with Red Steel 2 for one), and so on... Not making a full NIntendo IP game (I can't think of Western studios I'd want that from anyway) for them, or not returning the sentiment with as much, I dunno, loyalty, that doesn't mean zero collaborations. And of course they do occasionally work a lot with smaller teams. Monster, Headstrong, etc. It would be nice if they did more for sure.

Worked closely with Activision for Guitar Hero? Can I have some more information on that? Because that doesn't really sound like something Nintendo would do.

And is there anything more about Nintendo partnering with Ubisoft on some of their games? I mean, I know that Ubisoft has a strong relationship with Nintendo, but I'm really not sure how many developer collaborations (if any) Nintendo has had with them.

All I can find is this:

http://gamasutra.com/view/news/1672...s_fast_early_on_new_hardware.php#.UOMFtW99IgQ

"We've always had a really close relationship with Nintendo, so I'd venture to say that we did have an advantage in getting dev kits earlier than other people," Key said. "I'm not saying we got them earlier than everyone, but I do think we got them early.

"They came to us and asked us to make Red Steel. The thing is, once these dev kits show up in the building, you've got these other teams peeking around the curtain going, 'Hey, what's that?' Before you know it, there's three projects being developed for the Wii in that one room, and then another guy from another studio just happens to be visiting and brings back some ideas..."

...It says that Ubisoft has faith in Nintendo and Nintendo allows them concessions like early dev kits, but it doesn't really imply any developer collaborations.

 

[Plinko]

They worked closely with Activision for Guitar Hero, EA for WiiU online implementation, have helped Ubisoft here and there (with Red Steel 2 for one), and so on... Not making a full NIntendo IP game (I can't think of Western studios I'd want that from anyway) for them, or not returning the sentiment with as much, I dunno, loyalty, that doesn't mean zero collaborations. And of course they do occasionally work a lot with smaller teams. Monster, Headstrong, etc. It would be nice if they did more for sure and despite this you missed a ton of their Japanese collaborations so it's still attitude skewed toward Japan but that's obvious.

I think it's quite clear that the relationship blew up at some point over the online implementation.

 

[tehrik-e-insaaf]

I think it's quite clear that the relationship blew up at some point over the online implementation.

I think the battle between Valve & EA to get Nintendo to cede control of their marketplace to either one really blew up the relationship

http://n4g.com/news/1053284/how-greed-and-origin-killed-eas-relationship-with-wii-u

EDIT: obviously this is disputed ^ so please don't assume it is fact or anything

 

[chris3116]

My Retro comments are based on rumors and speculation... I could be (and am probably) totally wrong =) I don't have any inside information...

I can point to this blog run by Emily Rogers who has a questionable track record insofar as having inside information, but I can say that it lines up with some of the... uhm... sentiment... at Quakecon

http://emilyrogersblog.wordpress.co...-studios-rocky-development-for-wii-u-project/



Yeah unfortunately he burned so many bridges during the Xbox era and left Tecmo on terrible terms... He is basically untouchable right now in the Japanese development community... The President of Tecmo hates him for the bonus litigation and the sexual harrassment issues... He has been pushing for attention from Nintendo especially since Valhalla and Devil's Third were dumped by a nearly insolvent THQ... but Nintendo would be taking a huge risk and potentially compromise their existing relationship with Tecmo to gamble on Itagaki delivering...

Still... who knows? Iwata is a developer and he was known to have a pretty eccentric personality (one of the reasons Yamauchi liked him so much) so I could see him talking to Itagaki about picking up D3rd... Nintendo does work pretty actively with Mistwalker and Sakaguchi now and we all know THAT history...

You look at Kamiya and Mikami, and they were not on very good terms with Nintendo after the Capcom 5 folded... but Kamiya managed to recover his relationship with Nintendo behind the scenes and through a lot of public statements about his affection for Nintendo IP... Inafume was in a lot of trouble and he kind of abused Nintendo IP saying that people just play it for nostalgia purposes in a McKinsey Quarterly interview... but later he came back and said how much he respected Nintendo in a Wired interview (probably because he started working on 3DS stuff)... Mikami tried to recover his Nintendo relationship and he did to a large extent, but RE4 going to PS2 was really rough to recover from so I mean obviously Nintendo wasn't jumping up and down to fund Tango Gameworks... Mikami also wanted to make a statement in the West about Japanese talent so it made less sense for him to do something exclusive with Nintendo anyways...

Interestingly, Nintendo/Capcom were on bad terms through most of the Wii's lifecycle and Nintendo supposedly didn't allow Mega Man to be in Smash Brothers Brawl because it was still fairly bitter over that betrayal...

For the first part, I read the link you gave and most people that left are some artists or worked on the concept art. Basically, most of them were probably hired with a contract for 1 or 2 projects and they were not hired permanently.

As for Itagaki, we don't even know if Nintendo were involved for his projects that don't have a publisher. It could happen to see his projects on Wii U. I still can see Nintendo making more deals a la Bayonetta 2 in the near future.

Nintendo needs to reconcile to the japanese 3rd party developers first. The western developers had been snobbed Nintendo for a long time. The big western developers are just making brown, violent, dudebro games now and Nintendo doesn't do that. So without these kinds of 1st party games, there's virtually no market.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

Just to give an idea of the size of each hardware maker's investment in Japan:

1st Party Studios (game development only)

Nintendo
-Nintendo EAD
-Nintendo SPD
-Nintendo EAD Tokyo
-Intelligent Systems
-HAL Laboratory
-Monolith Soft
-NdCube
-Brownie Brown

Sony
-SCE Japan Studio
-Polyphony Digital

Microsoft
-lol


3rd party studios/companies contracted or collaborated with (last 3 years, game software only)

Nintendo
-Ambrella
-AQ Interactive (inc. Artoon)
-Arika
-Arzest
-Asobism
-Atlus
-Camelot Software Planning
-Chunsoft
-Cing
-Creatures
-Engines
-Game Freak
-Ganbarion
-Genius Sonority
-Good-Feel
-Grezzo
-G-rounding
-indies-zero
-Jamsworks
-Jupiter
-Keys Factory
-Konami
-Level-5
-M2
-Mindware
-Mistwalker
-Mitchell
-MuuMuu
-Namco Bandai
-Omiya Soft
-Paon
-ParityBit
-Platinum Games
-Prope
-Red Entertainment
-Sandlot
-Sega
-Shift
-Skip
-Square Enix (inc. 1DD and Armor Project)
-syn Sophia
-Tecmo Koei (inc. Team Ninja)
-Treasure
-Tose Software
-Vanpool
-Vitei

Sony
-Acquire
-Alfasystem
-Chunsoft
-Clap Hanz
-Comcept
-Crispy's!
-Eighting
-Level-5
-Marvelous AQL (inc. Artoon)
-Matrix Software
-Pyramid
-Q-Games
-Racjin

Microsoft
-G-rounding
-Grasshopper Manufacture
-iNiS
-Land Ho
-NaNaOnSha
-Spike
-Treasure

 

[99%]

Get cliffy B?

Yeah dude must be dying to work on wiiu...

 

[Übermatik]

This thread is full of huge posts... gimme a sec...

 

[Alexios]

stuff

IGN have changed their site since and the link doesn't work but google for this:

guitar hero 5 closely nintendo site:ign.com

And the relevant quote is in the page description though the link won't function past that.

It was made a big deal of back then with having online mode on par with the other versions and exclusive modes, Miss, etc.

Then also google Retro Studios Red Steel 2 for some Ubisoft stuff.

CBA to look for the rest, I know what I've read.

I'll also say the thread was for relationships in general, not simply if they worked on a game together hence my stuff for Wii U. Much of your own post I first replied to was games that Nintendo didn't help with their development. What did Nintendo do for each and every Mario & Sonic or Ninja Gaiden 3? I don't think we've seen them mention sending their own staff over etc.

 

[18-Volt]

..When they have practically ZERO collaborations with major Western 3rd-party publishers like EA or Activision.

Actually, Nintendo works with Disney Interactive and Warner Bros games very closely. Other than those there are only 4 big western publishers: EA, Activison, Ubisoft and Take Two. Except for T2, they three are fairly supportive of Nintendo, though they make collaborations with no one.

Nintendo isn't close to western developers as they were used to be, Nintendo's "Golden team" (Acclaim, Midway, Rare, Infogrames) is long gone. There are no western developer like those anymore, today's big four (EA, Ubisoft, Activision, T2) think only themselves and constantly making money from annual multiplatform titles. Smaller ones that Nintendo could have a connection with were absorbed to bigger ones, just like Midway to WB games and Eidos to SE (WB supports Nintendo greatly, only they are making Wii U version of their multiplatform titles).

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

Nintendo's work on Just Dance in Japan is pretty notable too. They do seem reasonably close with Ubisoft.

Also, FreeStyle games making Sing Party for them is interesting. Has Activision ever allowed one of their studios to develop an IP for another publisher before?

 

[Aquamarine]

Actually, Nintendo works with Disney Interactive and Warner Bros games very closely. Other than those there are only 4 big western publishers: EA, Activison, Ubisoft and Take Two. Except for T2, they three are fairly supportive of Nintendo, though they make collaborations with no one.

Nintendo isn't close to western developers as they were used to be, Nintendo's "Golden team" (Acclaim, Midway, Rare, Infogrames) is long gone. There are no western developer like those anymore, today's big four (EA, Ubisoft, Activision, T2) think only themselves and constantly making money from annual multiplatform titles. Smaller ones that Nintendo could have a connection with were absorbed to bigger ones, just like Midway to WB games and Eidos to SE (WB supports Nintendo greatly, only they are making Wii U version of their multiplatform titles).

In the late '90s - early '00s, Nintendo had a GREAT relationship with Disney Interactive. They (Nintendo) published a good amount of Disney Interactive games in places like North America. They even made Rareware develop Mickey's Speedway USA and Mickey's Racing Adventure.

And as seen by credits like this:

...They even had some influence in development back in the day.

But can you give me some evidence that Nintendo still works closely with Disney Interactive and Warner Bros.? I haven't seen many examples beyond Disney / Warner Bros. deciding to support the Wii / Wii U platform.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

Recently I think it's just Nintendo picking up Epic Mickey (Disney) and Scribblenauts Unlimited (WB )for Japan. They also picked up Goldeneye from Activision and Just Dance 1-2 and Rayman Legends from Ubisoft. I sort of wonder if Nintendo will go for Epic Mickey 2, 007 Legends and Just Dance 3/4 as well (even though they're multiplatform)? They never went for Rayman Origins, and the Wii version never even released in Japan iirc?

Lego City Undercover is also sort of a deal with WB (they own TT).

 

[wsippel]

In the West, Nintendo currently has close relationships with Warner, Activision and Ubisoft. Lego City Undercover is developed by Tt Fusion, a WB Interactive studio, financed and published by Nintendo. Freestyle Games, a subsidiary of Activision, developed Sing Party. And Nintendo reportedly had some Mario Club guys help out on Zombi U, and they publish Rayman Legends in Japan.

 

[Aquamarine]

Recently I think it's just Nintendo picking up Epic Mickey (Disney) and Scribblenauts Unlimited (WB )for Japan. They also picked up Goldeneye from Activision and Just Dance 1-2 and Rayman Legends from Ubisoft. I sort of wonder if Nintendo will go for Epic Mickey 2, 007 Legends and Just Dance 3/4 as well (even though they're multiplatform)? They never went for Rayman Origins, and the Wii version never even released in Japan iirc?

Lego City Undercover is also sort of a deal with WB (they own TT).

I wonder if Nintendo decided to publish the games in Japan because they wouldn't have been published otherwise...you know, to bolster support of those consoles.

In the West, Nintendo currently has close relationships with Warner, Activision and Ubisoft. Lego City Undercover is developed by Tt Fusion, a WB Interactive studio, financed and published by Nintendo. Freestyle Games, a subsidiary of Activision, developed Sing Party. And Nintendo reportedly had some Mario Club guys help out on Zombi U, and they publish Rayman Legends in Japan.

Thanks.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

Doing my previous list for Nintendo's western endeavors:

1st Party Studios (game development only)

-Nintendo Software Technology
-Retro Studios

3rd party studios/companies contracted or collaborated with (last 3 years, game software only)

-Activision (FreeStyle Games)
-Big Fish Games
-Curve Studios
-Kuju Entertainment (Headstrong Games)
-Monster Games
-Next Level Games
-Nuevo Retro Games
-Sanzaru Games
-Ubisoft (Paris studio)
-Warner Bros. (Tt Fusion)


Someone else can do Sony & MS, but Nintendo is anemic compared to either.

 

[Aquamarine]

Doing my previous list for Nintendo's western endeavors:

Someone else can do Sony & MS, but Nintendo is anemic compared to either.

Well we go back to the whole comment that Wada made about "Nintendo being the only Japanese-based hardware manufacturer." It's obvious that Sony and Microsoft's western support would trump Nintendo as they seem to be primarily focused on the Western audience these days.

 

[zsidane]

Rebuilding a western "dream team" ain't a bad idea. Ubisoft would probably be the captain of such a team...

 

[Subaru]

I think Nintendo cares so much about its own image to associate it to Itagaki. That's sad, he's awesome.

 

[chertipros]

Nintendo really should expand. They are too small to support 2 platforms and looking at that list, the devs they normally partner with are not talented enough to trust a majority of their ip's with

 

[DjRoomba]

Single Best dev relationship Nintendo had was with Rare. They need to farm all the ex-Rare guys, set up a company like Good-Feel and give them a bunch of funding.

 

[Hiltz]

It would be nice to find another Western developer for Nintendo to team up with. Although,it's great that Nintendo is currently working with Platinum Games. That was a pleasant surprise. With any lucky, they may work with them again in the future.