AceBandage
Banned
sillymonkey321 said:
You mean the ones that don't exist?
The only thing Ubisoft has done of any worth on the Wii was publish NMH 1 and 2, both of which got 0 marketing, 0 push and was sent out to die.
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THQ: Core, Casual, Nintendo + SR3 and RF2 at E3
- Thread starter squicken
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You mean the ones that don't exist?
The only thing Ubisoft has done of any worth on the Wii was publish NMH 1 and 2, both of which got 0 marketing, 0 push and was sent out to die.
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
They don't have to buy a single one for them to contribute to their poor image. For example my image of Toyota up until recently was that they made good reliable cars. Now that image is tarnished slightly due to the massive recalls they have had, even though I know that a lot of cars have recalls for safety issues. All of this is without me ever owning or driving a single Toyota.sillymonkey321 said:
AceBandage said:
That's why i said when/if, specifically referring to Red Steel 2 which MIGHT be good, might not. But if it IS good then i highly doubt a bunch of bad games that nobody bought to begin with will be the reason behind Red Steel 2 not selling, it's major obstacle will be Red Steel's mediocrity, a hurdle that all sequels to bad games have to face. High review scores and SOME marketing would help but Ubisoft seems to have lost faith in the title, hopefully that doesn't reflect a lack of faith in the quality as well as sales.
AceBandage
Banned
sillymonkey321 said:
Ubisoft lost faith in the title long ago, and gamers lost faith with Ubisoft on the Wii long ago as well.
Like I said, there's no way this game is going to sell well, regardless of quality.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
At this point in the game, part of the problem has got to be that core gamers who own a Wii also likely own a PS3 or 360. Unless a Wii game really stands out as something special and quality, they'll funnel the money they have to spend into the PS360 - why? Because of teh graphix? Well, for some people, yes. But for a lot, it's simply the fact that the PS360 gets the better core games - graphix aside - since that's where the publishers are putting the truly hot core titles.
Let's use myself as an example. I have all three consoles. I did not buy Mad World and No More Heroes at launch and waited for them to hit the bargain bin (the serious bargain bin). Not because of teh graphix, but because the same 50 bucks went towards a major title out around the same time on PS360, that was simply a better core game in terms of content. ON THE OTHER HAND, I motherf**kin' pre-ordered Tatsunoko vs Capcom, Shiren the Wanderer, and Silent Hill: Shattered Memories and was there day 1. I was there with bells on not just due to a matter of taste, but because I feel those are all far better, genuinely AAA (or at least A) games than say, Mad World.
Now, I am more informed than the average core gamer; I waste too much time reading GAF, after all. I /knew/ that despite the horrible rep that Wii 3rd party games have, that TvC, Shiren, or Silent Hill are actually good games worth buying. I can't blame the median core gamer with a Wii however if he/she never looked twice at those games (especially since, while they're great games, they still admittedly do not exemplify fully naturalized Wii title - something that could only be done on the Wii, with Wii play mechanic values.)
Even the fact that they are "conventional" good games taken into account, the average Wii owner has been shit upon for three years, as alluded to upthread. That burned audience is now a hard, hard sell. At this point, I am not sure if 3rd parties can do anything /other/ than the one thing that would probably be impossible for them: take the next entry in some massively popular series and make Wii the lead platform. Make people go to the Wii for the game. Nothing else may convince the Wii core gamer that he is not being insulted and swindled out of his money with hand-me-down table scraps from the "real" game consoles.
Let's use myself as an example. I have all three consoles. I did not buy Mad World and No More Heroes at launch and waited for them to hit the bargain bin (the serious bargain bin). Not because of teh graphix, but because the same 50 bucks went towards a major title out around the same time on PS360, that was simply a better core game in terms of content. ON THE OTHER HAND, I motherf**kin' pre-ordered Tatsunoko vs Capcom, Shiren the Wanderer, and Silent Hill: Shattered Memories and was there day 1. I was there with bells on not just due to a matter of taste, but because I feel those are all far better, genuinely AAA (or at least A) games than say, Mad World.
Now, I am more informed than the average core gamer; I waste too much time reading GAF, after all. I /knew/ that despite the horrible rep that Wii 3rd party games have, that TvC, Shiren, or Silent Hill are actually good games worth buying. I can't blame the median core gamer with a Wii however if he/she never looked twice at those games (especially since, while they're great games, they still admittedly do not exemplify fully naturalized Wii title - something that could only be done on the Wii, with Wii play mechanic values.)
Even the fact that they are "conventional" good games taken into account, the average Wii owner has been shit upon for three years, as alluded to upthread. That burned audience is now a hard, hard sell. At this point, I am not sure if 3rd parties can do anything /other/ than the one thing that would probably be impossible for them: take the next entry in some massively popular series and make Wii the lead platform. Make people go to the Wii for the game. Nothing else may convince the Wii core gamer that he is not being insulted and swindled out of his money with hand-me-down table scraps from the "real" game consoles.
First of all Kaijima, bonus points for getting Tatsunoko vs. Capcom. I'm really looking forward to seeing how it performs in February's NPD.
EDIT: Whoops, guess my brain stopped functioning for a second.
This is why a whole lot of eyes are going to be on the performance of Monster Hunter Tri. This is a major franchise for Capcom, moreso in Japan than America, but still they made the decision for the next flagship entry in the series to be Wii-exclusive (at least for now). It looks great, there's a lot of depth, online play (possibly even sans-friend codes), it will come in a bundle with the Classic Controller Pro, and Nintendo has said that they're lending Capcom the same sort of marketing effort that they use in their pokemon games. Technically speaking, this game should be a huge deal, and should be a big seller. There hasn't been a "core game" situation on the Wii quite like this.Kaijima said:
EDIT: Whoops, guess my brain stopped functioning for a second.
Great post, deserves a full quote.Stumpokapow said:
I did try to make some conversation out of the PC side of THQ. All the PC gamers say they like THQ, but my argument would be that's the THQ of the past. Relic is now making a console exclusive, which sounds fucking awesome for what little we've seen of it, so THQ may in fact be responsible for taking one of the truly great PC devs away from the PC. Outside of Relic, you're not left with much on the PC side. A very bad port of Saints Row 2, a flawed port with Red Faction: Guerrilla, and the only future releases being MMOs.
I like the quote about Metro 2033 because it shows a willingness to remove themselves from the big budget arms race and find a niche for certain titles, and tempering their sales expectations accordingly. The perfect attitude for PC development imho.
It seems the only place PC gaming issues get talked about is Alan Wake threads though. Carry on having the same tired Wii third party debate I guess.
You didn't really fix. That franchise has traditionally NOT sold in the West. Only by some miracle will they be able to make it sell more than in the past. If one company can make that miracle it's certainly Nintendo, and if they don't manage then CAPCOM may as well stop trying to push the series over here for good, but it will stilll have no bearing on the "core audience" of the platform. It's purely a matter of that franchise in particular, regardless of platform.Doorman said:
Wait what?Sipowicz said:
You know, you can mock THQ for the Deadly Creatures comment, but de Blob? Come on. THQ was (or, Blue Tongue) was right on the money with this game. You could argue that jumping with the Wiimote wasn't flawless and towards the end it tended to be a bit repetitive, but still: this was an honest attempt of making a good Wii game and they got it right for the most part. They got rewarded as well with sales. To bad it's still their only good Wii game to this date.
Wait till next gen I supose.Kaijima said:
Edit: I'm kind of curious about his "Well, that makes sense on Wii" statement though.
The_Technomancer said:
Although this thread is impressive so far. We seem to be staying (mostly) away from the old, tired arguments.
Well, I tried to bring up the point that publishers seem to have double standards when comes to Wii games bombing, i.e.
Game bombs on Wii = Casuals, no Core Market = Consumers fault
Game bombs on HD platform = Game was just not good enough for the gamers, did not have enough marketing = devs/pubs fault
All the while ignoring that NONE of those Wii games would have performed well on the 360 or PS3 either and that apparently publishers consider consumer standards to be lower on Wii than they are on HD platforms (which ironically is exactly why their Wii games bomb)
Well, I tried anyways, not sure if that point has ever been brought up.
AceBandage
Banned
Bizzyb said:
Oh, it's been brought up plenty.
Which just further showcases publisher's idiocy and arrogance this generation.
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
I doubt Relic are going permanently to the darkside, in fact I think they created a new team within Relic to work on 40K:SM although I may be wrong. In addition to supporting Relic, THQ have continued to give ports to PC for most of their games which currently is pretty much the best PC gamers can hope for.Fredescu said:
Bizzyb said:
People say it's the publishers fault when a game bombs on PS3/360 because every month there are successful core games without fail, but only a few. Publishers are pushing out too many big budget games too close to each other. But still there will be some games that should have sold better, that were good games and decently marketed, but don't.
When a game bombs on the Wii, it's not because several other new releases succeeded and it can't sustain them all, it's because people are buying the same 2 or 3 Nintendo titles and small numbers of everything else...and there are a LOT of "everything else" iirc Wii has almost 2x as many games available for its system as ps3 and 360. I haven't been to many retail gaming stores lately but i'm afraid to look at the Wii shelf. I'm not going to completely blame the Wii owners though as a lot of the games just aren't up there in quality, but the ones that ARE pretty good, maybe not amazing but worthwhile experiences, you'd hope they could pull better numbers than they are with a userbase THAT huge.
AceBandage
Banned
sillymonkey321 said:
Except that this has never been the case.
The good Wii games are a lot like the good PS3 games that failed in sales (Okami, God Hand, Killer 7, ect).
It had a larger user base than the Wii, but it doesn't matter.
If a game isn't appealing to the majority of people they aren't going to buy it.
Agnates said:
I believe that the public opinion of Monster Hunter is generally a blank slate in the West, due to the fact that the last console iteration released here was the first one for PS2 released 6 long years ago with little fanfare, and that the rest of the Western releases were for the PSP, and PSP software pretty much doesn't count in the West. A good marketing campaign doesn't need to sway the opinion rather than form it.
AceBandage said:
PS2 bud.
@Fredescu
So long as Relic can still make more Dawn of War, THQ can do whatever the fuck else for all I care. Though I didn't know about no PC version of Space Marine. Sadness.
But there was marketing for the PSP games, especially in Europe. There were clear efforts to push the series, if you didn't see it personally is a different matter. There were commercials and great online presence. Tutorials like this and places like that. It's not a blank slate at all. People know Monster Hunter. They just don't enjoy it (I do). Only "casual" gamers don't know of it, but they'd hardly be able to enjoy it if it's their first serious game. That's not who they should go after. MH is a hard sell for "cores" even.
Yeah, Relic have specifically said they are making more Dawn of War for PC, so they're not abandoning PC at all. I just wish such a talented PC developer could see their way clear to port their new awesome sounding game to a platform they're obviously great at. I guess that makes me no better than 95% of the rest of the thread wanting Red Faction or Darksiders for Wii.evangd007 said:
So the worst case scenario is that Monster Hunter is an unknown quantity. Anecdotal, I know, but I have a number of acquaintances who own Wiis and pirate the vast majority of what they play (note that I personally do NOT fall into nor agree with that category), but fully intend to pay for MHTri when it's released. The American fanbase for Monster Hunter is very small, but it does exist, and it's somewhere to start, at least.Agnates said:
And anyway, existing fanbase aside, the main point I was trying to make is that with MHTri, we have a title from a company that has actually tried, it's a big game with most if not all of the modern amenities that people like to point at for "next-gen" games. It comes packaged with a new controller and promised marketing support from Nintendo itself. I don't think you can really get away with saying that it has "no bearing" on the now-fabled existence of the core Wii audience.
I mean hell, if companies are going to draw conclusions about successful Wii games from Deadly Creatures of all things, Monster Hunter can't (or at least shouldn't) be ignored when it joins the conversation, for better or for worse. The "developers didn't try" and "it wasn't marketed" excuses won't be around for Wii folks to fall back on.
No, worst case scenario, and far closer to reality, is people know the franchise and just don't freaking like it. It's a hard sell. Even for you I'm sure it didn't click right away like most succesful games. And from your friends I bet half of them won't stick with it if they're just hyped because as you say it's the first real effort, and I can see the game being returned. It's a hard sell, not because people don't know it, which may well change, but because it just isn't a mainstream kind of game in these regions. It's not Phantasy Star Online instant gratification and simplicity. People are even going "lolwut" when they see footage that includes the loading screens. It's a hard sell. It's just as stupid to judge the quantity of the core audience on Wii by Monster Hunter Tri as it is to judge it by Conduit. And yes, publishers will do both stupid things. You don't have to.
Hey, I couldn't care less about Red Faction or Darksiders Wii. I just want the stupid to stop.Fredescu said:
But I too want that SPESS MAREEN game on PC. Having it on those filthy, chaos-touched consoles alone is heresy as far as I'm concerned. FOR THE EMPRAH!
Fredescu said:
With respect to Red Faction on the Wii, the fact that THQ thought that Deadly Creatures was a potential winner and this was not worth continuing with is where most of that ire comes from. I really don't understand why they wouldn't finish Beast and then release it alongside Guerilla, positioning Wii versions like that generally has had good results due to what I like to call "hype osmosis." It worked for Force Unleashed and Call of Duty three times, at the very least.
sillymonkey321 said:
No, it's because they either had no idea the game existed or it was in a genre that many people do NOT care for. Every other game on PS3 is either a shooter or an action game involving killing, destroying or maiming in SOME way. That is what these core gamers want to play, not Little Kings Story, or Deadly Creatures. The closest legitimate game Wii has gotten so far has been Tatsunoko Vs Capcom, everything else would have (most likely) bombed hard on 360/PS3
That has been my point all along. The games being released on Wii would have done badly ANYWHERE, yet when it's on Wii it's our fault but when a bad game does badly on 360 it's their fault.
You are right about one thing though, there are many great AA-AAA successful core games on HD platforms every month to compare the bombs to, but those AA-AAA games simply do not exist on Wii to compare to, b/c 3rd parties never gave a shit about producing one.
BadSanta said:Again the same bs from a third party on Wii. I quote myself from another thread, it's faster.
Yeah, Basically.
My dad once said sometimes when people get into car accidents the one who starts yelling at the other guy first and loudest will be perceived as the one who is not in the wrong, even if they are, and if they are loud enough and mad enough the other guy may actually start to believe that it was their own fault...psychology.