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[herzogzwei1989]

One of these days, I really need to learn how to set-up an emulator of the X680000 and play these games. Japanese computer systems are really kick ass.

There is a whole library of quality games waiting for me there. That looks to be a far superior version of TF2. The one on the Genny was kind of....well crap really. The later games in the series was much better.

You need Win X68 High Speed and the bios. You really need to do this ^_^


I know, X68000 Thunder Force II shits all over the MD/Genesis version.

 

[djtiesto]

First time I ever played this was at the dentist's office, of all places. Back in '89 or '90, in those pre-Sonic Genesis days. I actually don't mind the overhead sections, even though half the time I could never figure out what the hell you're supposed to do. Of course nowadays, the game doesn't compare to the almighty TF3 and 4. I recently picked up TF5 but didn't quite care for it, the polygonal graphics were so ugly compared to the sprite-based games.

Really need to d/l an X68k emu one day. Looks like there are so many great games for it.

 

[levious]

On the Genesis, "This is Exceliza (name of your ship)! Roger, good luck!"

no way, "mission initiated, nanu, good luck!"

 

[herzogzwei1989]

I've always wondered what was said, heh.

 

[wondermega]

I know, X68000 Thunder Force II shits all over the MD/Genesis version.

maybe.. but it didn't have.. this

 

[Gattsu25]

I fucking LOVED this game on the genny.

Played the shit out of it. Ahh.. youth.

 

[herzogzwei1989]

I never played much Thunder Force II on the Genesis, it was all about Herzog Zwei. But I've come to realize that Genesis Thunder Force II was an arcade-quality shmuo with outstanding music, graphics and gameplay. It's just now that I knkw the X68000 version exists, I cannot go back to the Genesis/MD version,

 

[ShinAmano]

Genesis version is the only game where despite trying I was unable to beat. It is my white whale.

 

[Dragoon En Regalia]

If Herzog Zwei on the X68K ever surfaces, in any shape or form, I'll make an AirMech/Herzog Zwei sandwich and cryogenically freeze it for the world to worship. Superior real-time strategy games, them all.

DJ, the system's got some great games. I'd also press you to play A-Train III on the X68K, as it started Artdink's financial heyday, but I won't force ya.

 

[herzogzwei1989]

If Herzog Zwei on the X68K ever surfaces, in any shape or form, I'll make an AirMech/Herzog Zwei sandwich and cryogenically freeze it for the world to worship. Superior real-time strategy games, them all.

I'd die and go to HEAVEN if Herzog Zwei ever surfaces for the X68000.

Also, I cannot imagine how amazing a X68K version of Thunder Force III would be like.

 

[wondermega]

I'd die and go to HEAVEN if Herzog Zwei ever surfaces for the X68000.

Also, I cannot imagine how amazing a X68K version of Thunder Force III would be like.

Ehh, they'd probably move the status bar to the bottom of the screen, and stick a couple of side-scrolling levels from part 2 in there. Oh wait..

 

[herzogzwei1989]

opps, wrong thread :/

 

[Aeana]

Are you looking for box shots or screenshots?

Here is a really big front.

 

[racerx77]

I wonder how thunder force 2 later in the genesis life cycle would have compared.

 

[herzogzwei1989]

I wonder how thunder force 2 later in the genesis life cycle would have compared.

Probably not very well. Gosh I wish Genesis had been based on the System 16 board so arcade-exact ports would be doable :/

 

[Genesis Knight]

Probably not very well. Gosh I wish Genesis had been based on the System 16 board so arcade-exact ports would be doable :/

Obviously you're really biased towards the X68000 but what specific properties of the X68k version of TFII do you think would have been impossible to bring over? Especially considering later graphical powerhouses like Gunstar Heroes, Vectorman 1/2, Ranger X, Contra Hard Corps, Thunder Force IV, etc etc?

 

[herzogzwei1989]

Obviously you're really biased towards the X68000 but what specific properties of the X68k version of TFII do you think would have been impossible to bring over? Especially considering later graphical powerhouses like Gunstar Heroes, Vectorman 1/2, Ranger X, Contra Hard Corps, Thunder Force IV, etc etc?

Yeah, I think Genesis could handle a decent port of X68000 TFII on a larger cart and with more experience with the hardware.

 

[djtiesto]

Here's a nice writeup of Thunder Force 2 Genesis that a friend of mine did:

http://redparsley.blogspot.com/2012/02/game-gallery-6.html

 

[Genesis Knight]

Bah, another TFIII lover. TFIV was the pinnacle of the series! The pinnacle, I say!

 

[Dragoon En Regalia]

Absolutely the pinnacle, in every single damn way. Thunder Force II (for the X68K) comes quite close, though. Thunder Force III isn't as great as it's cracked up to be. That same blogger did a piece on the original Thunder Force, released back in 1984. Interesting stuff.

 

[herzogzwei1989]

Oh I totally agree wholeheartedly that Thunder Force IV / Lightning Force is THE highlight of the series. From there it all went south ;_;

 

[Gattsu25]

Bah, another TFIII lover. TFIV was the pinnacle of the series! The pinnacle, I say!

Even with lesser levels, design, and music?

You are a very charitable person and others should strive to be more like you.

 

[wondermega]

1st, let me say I am shocked to see we are closing in on page 3 of a goddamn Thunder Force II thread on Neogaf. This truly warms the cockles of my heart.

2nd, I have to say as a longtime TFII fan (as much as one can be, at this point) I have never had any real appreciation for TFIV. To wit:

- Called Lightening Force in the US. Strike 1, for several reasons right there.
- The dumb way the ship spun around in the opening title sequence. It made me feel bad for the pilot who must be getting nauseous every time he has to do that.
- Shell seemed immediately kind of hacked-together, rough. Not sure how to explain this.. after the extremely tight, polished presentation of TF3, something felt rough and raw in this one in an off-putting way
- scrolling the screen up and down during stages. Probably the biggest turnoff in all of the gripes I have with this game. Not as bad in a vertical shmup for whatever reason (although still irritating), when they pulled this BS in a horzie then it was enough to feel like The End of Fun for me. Nothing like darting around in a game as hectic as TF only to smash into something that wasn't even visible because that part of the playfield wasn't being drawn at the moment. Piss me off.
- soundtrack was excellent (as usual), but for some reason this game really sounded wayyy murkier than any of the other TF games on the system. I'm usually a big fan of the Genesis sound chip but this one just sounded like it was being abused, even though the compositions were extremely awesome.

I dunno what to say. It's sacrilege as a shmupper, I know, to disavow TFIV but it's never sat right with me

 

[Ben Morales]

Scrolling up and down was off-putting to me too at first, but once I got used to it I loved exploring the huge stages. Gave the game more replay value because I was always choosing different paths to go to.

 

[Genesis Knight]

Even with lesser levels, design, and music?

You are a very charitable person and others should strive to be more like you.

Are you seriously getting riled up over an internet opinion? LOL, okay.

Some stellar TFIV tracks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yhi_bK1bH4U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObJVuRTIIS4

 

[Gattsu25]

Are you seriously getting riled up over an internet opinion? LOL, okay.

Some stellar TFIV tracks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yhi_bK1bH4U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObJVuRTIIS4

What? I was complimenting you.

Regarding the tracks that you posted: Both track are good, but they both start pretty poorly IMO. It's not until you get to the middle of the track the melodies begin to shine. This is all IMO, mind you.

 

[herzogzwei1989]

BTW, the arcade game Last Mission is a lot like TFII's overhead levels:

 

[Gattsu25]

BTW, the arcade game Last Mission is a lot like TFII's overhead levels:

Wow, that looks pretty damned similar. Which one came out first, I wonder..

 

[wondermega]

BTW, the arcade game Last Mission is a lot like TFII's overhead levels:

that's right! I totally remember thinking the same thing after stumbling onto it, on MAME several years ago. Never have been able to recall the name of it though, so thank you

*goes off to play it*

 

[Genesis Knight]

What? I was complimenting you.

Wait...I'm confused, aren't you saying that TFIV has lesser levels, design, and music?!! If you're not, I'll buy you a drink!

 

[wondermega]

YouTube

Another must-play game for fans of top-down TF2 is Konami's Time Pilot 84. It's actually aged pretty well if you like that sort of thing (extremely stripped-down, but very hectic blasting)

 

[Dragoon En Regalia]

Those TFIV tracks start poorly? Have you listened to TFIII's muddy FM synth sounds and lack of interesting music, at least outside of the boss battle anthems and Venus Fire? Holy shit that's stupid. Metal Squad and Stand Up Against Myself are two of the most defining tracks in shooting game music history, and I'd know damn well. TFIV's soundtrack beats the living shit of TFIII's, mainly because it plain sounds better and works better on a compositional basis. I like TFIII's music, but it feels lacking compared to the music from TFII and IV. Toshiharu Yamanishi was still inexperienced and did weaker material for TFIII than he did for the vastly-superior TFIV soundtrack. And Tomomi Ohtani's work on TFII and III is always great, unique amongst shooting game soundtracks.

And let's not get started on how much more technically-proficient and well-designed every part of TFIV is compared to its predecessor. The scrolling level mechanic makes sense from both a technical perspective and because the player isn't missing much on both vertical extremes of the screen. The weapon system is vastly-improved with the ability to retain all of your weapons after you've died (aside from the one currently in use), and the sheer variety of contexts, enemies, and boss encounters is simply amazing. Most importantly, it's much more challenging and fast-paced compared to TFIII, nearly up there with TFII X68k in terms of difficulty at certain points in-game.

But I can understand why people like TFIII. It got more reception and press than its sequel, anyway. Last Mission and Time Pilot are two great overhead shooters, though I'd like to think that the original Thunder Force came out in 1984 alongside Time Pilot, with more influences coming from Namco's Xevious and SEGA's Zaxxon than any other games. Shame no one played it!

 

[Log4Girlz]

Is this the Abacus Bish was talking about?

 

[Ben Morales]

Time Pilot '84 looks fantastic! I never heard of that until now. Which reminds me, what do you guys think of Vanguard II?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HW-sqvh2yn0

Sure, it has nothing on the original Vanguard, but the TFII style game play is fun imo.

 

[herzogzwei1989]

I always thought Thunder Force III was "THE KING OF SHOOTERS". I didn't feel that way about Thunder Force IV, even though it IS the superior game. I just was playing it vie emu, OMFG the parallax scrolling and music. It's pure biss!

 

[Dragoon En Regalia]

Thunder Force IV has great opening themes. Seriously, I could listen to this stuff for hours. And none of that Hyakutaro Tsukumo stuff, thank you. It's all about Mega Drive-era Toshiharu.

Thunder Force III is no doubt the most remembered of the franchise, and it's the signature early representative of Tehnosoft's support for the up-and-coming platform—was back then, anyway.

 

[herzogzwei1989]

Thunder Force IV has great opening themes. Seriously, I could listen to this stuff for hours. And none of that Hyakutaro Tsukumo stuff, thank you. It's all about Mega Drive-era Toshiharu.

Thunder Force III is no doubt the most remembered of the franchise, and it's the signature early representative of Tehnosoft's support for the up-and-coming platform—was back then, anyway.

Thanks for these. My favorite is the intro theme!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYPcte3BlPw&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VzLxWBho-8&feature=related

 

[herzogzwei1989]

The versions have significant differences, as the X68000 version is the more "complete" one of the two. Two of the stages, an overhead one and a side scroller, found in the X68k version were removed for the Genesis version. The X68k version has a handy map feature for the overhead stages, and has noticeable improvements in graphics (the ship is small but there's a lot more parallax scrolling) and sound (there are more voice clips, and they're a lot clearer too.) Amusingly, the game even curses for you when you lose your last life. However, the X68k version is insanely harder. The difficulty increases gradually like in the Genesis version but at a much higher level. Autofire is also disabled by default. Finally, some weapons in the Genesis version are different from their X68k counterparts.

Genesis

X68000

 

[Dragoon En Regalia]

Those transparencies—yum. Wish the Mega Drive was able to use them, but that was a feat for anyone to accomplish. That kind of difficulty with transparencies transferred over to the Saturn, and even then Technosoft put more 2D and 2D transparencies into Thunder Force V on the Saturn. Here, though, the overhead perspective got used to great effecr.

 

[Genesis Knight]

Thunder Force IV has great opening themes. Seriously, I could listen to this stuff for hours. And none of that Hyakutaro Tsukumo stuff, thank you. It's all about Mega Drive-era Toshiharu..

Hyakutaro only started composing with TFV? I didn't know that.

 

[Dragoon En Regalia]

He started in 1993, right as Toshiharu left to co-found Gust with some other dudes. His first soundtrack was done for Hyper Duel, and from then on became the chief musician for all of the company's games. TFV came out in 1997, 5 years after TFIV. Meanwhile, Toshiharu left Gust after doing relatively on the soundtrack for Atelier Marie (good on its own merits, but lacking compared works past and present). He's been relegated to obscurity since, and Hyakutaro suffered a similar fate. Hyakutaro, of course, still gets more work because he surely did all of the Thunder Force music ever. Album credits tell otherwise, as there've been a number of different musicians responsible for the games.

 

[djtiesto]

He started in 1993, right as Toshiharu left to co-found Gust with some other dudes. His first soundtrack was done for Hyper Duel, and from then on became the chief musician for all of the company's games. TFV came out in 1997, 5 years after TFIV. Meanwhile, Toshiharu left Gust after doing relatively on the soundtrack for Atelier Marie (good on its own merits, but lacking compared works past and present). He's been relegated to obscurity since, and Hyakutaro suffered a similar fate. Hyakutaro, of course, still gets more work because he surely did all of the Thunder Force music ever. Album credits tell otherwise, as there've been a number of different musicians responsible for the games.

Would have never expected the Thunder Force and Atelier series to be linked at all, even in the slightest... btw Dragoon, I have to say you are definitely one of the most interesting posters I've seen in a while on here, very knowledgeable about retrogaming.

 

[herzogzwei1989]

He started in 1993, right as Toshiharu left to co-found Gust with some other dudes. His first soundtrack was done for Hyper Duel, and from then on became the chief musician for all of the company's games. TFV came out in 1997, 5 years after TFIV. Meanwhile, Toshiharu left Gust after doing relatively on the soundtrack for Atelier Marie (good on its own merits, but lacking compared works past and present). He's been relegated to obscurity since, and Hyakutaro suffered a similar fate. Hyakutaro, of course, still gets more work because he surely did all of the Thunder Force music ever. Album credits tell otherwise, as there've been a number of different musicians responsible for the games.

Very, very interesting, thanks for posting that.


BTW guys, a screenshot from one of the X68K exclusive levels, nothing really impressive but still..

There are, of course, layers of parallax scrolling in that level.

 

[Dragoon En Regalia]

Would have never expected the Thunder Force and Atelier series to be linked at all, even in the slightest... btw Dragoon, I have to say you are definitely one of the most interesting posters I've seen in a while on here, very knowledgeable about retrogaming.

Thank you for the compliment. Others have been researching obscure, relatively-unknown Japanese game developers for quite a while now, and I'm just one of them. And, yes, there technically is a connection between both companies, though it's probably on a private scale. More interesting is how both Toshiharu and Hyakutaro mixed and matched stylistic elements in each of their respective soundtracks. For example: Toshiharu did the music for Falcata, Gust's first major title with any sizable record and media out there, at the same time that Hyakutaro had completed Hyper Duel's music and was working on Nekketsu Oyako. Falcata's music, for the most part, is a great mixture of orchestral synth-sampled background tunes and elaborate baroque-influenced heavy metal battle themes. And Toshi used synth samples and chord progressions similar both to what he'd produced before, and to what Hyakutaro was doing at the same time. Time for me to rip the music I found on NicoNico and upload it to Youtube (though finding the music is easy enough through a NND account and Google Translate).

 

[Ben Morales]

Do you know what happened to Tomomi Ohtani? I think she (or is it a he?) was one of the contributors in the Genesis era TF games and stuff like the excellent Herzog Zwei. I loved that composer's style so much.

 

[Dragoon En Regalia]

Do you know what happened to Tomomi Ohtani? I think she (or is it a he?) was one of the contributors in the Genesis era TF games and stuff like the excellent Herzog Zwei. I loved that composer's style so much.

He left Technosoft before it went under (speculation, though—haven't seen him credited on later Technosoft albums, that's all I can go on) and now operates a computer-tech home business. He even sold CDs of his unreleased music a while ago! And he's got a Twitter and chats with Naosuke Arai, his partner from Technosoft who preceded him in the sound department. All he's done with new music, in recent times anyway, is an arrangement Knights Of Legend for one of three Broken Thunder album releases.

Shame, really. I'll interview him when I'm able to get a translator, lol. I'm more surprised and deeply-satisfied that someone asked me about Tomomi!

 

[Ben Morales]

Tomomi is awesome, I've been a big fan of his for a long time! Thanks for the update on him, and yes if you ever get to do an interview please hit me up. =D

 

[herzogzwei1989]

X68K TFII mini review:

Review - Having played the Mega Drive version of Thunder Force II back in the day, I was very curious to find out about the differences with this X68000 incarnation.

To my surprise, I must admit that the Mega Drive port holds its ground, but of course, only to a point!

The X68000 version looks cleaner and includes some extra effects such as parallax scrolling and beautiful transparencies in the top-down view levels. These effects are entirely missing in the Mega Drive version.

Voice samples are also much cleaner here and more abundant. For example, when you lose a continue, the pilot will scream "Shit!"

But I have to say that strangely, without the agonizing yet hilarious Mega Drive mumbling voices, TFII on X68000 almost feels like a different game.

Bottom line: Probably the best version of TFII available. 8/10

http://www.illusionware.it/x68000/Thunder-Force-II.html

 

[herzogzwei1989]

Can someone please post a link to where there's a large amount of X68K box scans, please?

I really want TFII, R-Type, SFII,CE, Strider, etc.

Thanks in advance ^_^

 

[ManeKast]

When I was young I played thunderforce 2 pretty much every day for about a year or more. I perfected it. Thanks for the heads up on this, I can't wait to experience this version.