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[crap monkey]

The final boss in Dead or Alive 4, Alpha-152, is trash. I can't imagine what the devs were thinking. No fun at all.


Yeah, the TW101 kicks your ass without mercy until you're experienced enough that you can suddenly handle it. I had an awful time on Normal mode during my first playthrough. I enjoy the game a lot more now that I've finally wrapped my head around the finer points of the combat system.

This is why I tell everyone to start on Easy, no matter how good they think they are at action games. You can't really enjoy the story if you're like me and you hate getting slapped down every five seconds. It's better to lower the difficulty initially so you don't sour your first impression.

I think this is what I need to do. I kept trying to get into the game but just couldn't. I love the game and I want to enjoy it, but the combat is rough to put all together and some of the earlier bosses can be tough. It feels like a game of timing, but changing weapons with the tablet and getting the perfect timing on reflecting attacks is difficult to put all together at once. There's a rhythm to the combat, I just haven't gotten it yet. Next time I start it up I'll set it to easy and run through it that way. Platinum games are really replayable so I'll go back and play it on normal after.

 

[Chitown B]

http://webm.host/19f92/vid.webm

That is some impressive fucking work.

 

[CrashSimonFaye]

bad memories

 

[Fractal]

If being expected to die in parts isn't unfair, then it's impossible for any game to ever be unfair. Patience doesn't help you the first time you run into a mimic. It's a treasure chest just sitting there like a regular treasure chest. In normal bullshit fashion, it's pretty deep in Sen's Fortress after you've made it past lots of traps, enemies, and boulders. I don't consider it my fault for dying there. Same for toxic archers flying from the dark in Blighttown. Especially the first time when there's no way you could have seen that coming. After dying a bunch on that, I almost quit the game. When I got to Ornstein and Smough, I wish I would have.

I guess it's best to say the game isn't for you... dying in Dark Souls is pretty much an integral part of the experience, a means to progress and learn. First time playing, you're expected to die, a lot... even if you're familiar with the concepts of the game. I mean, even the marketing slogan was "Prepare to Die", so you know what you're getting yourself into. Now, I don't mean to say every single death is completely fair with only the player to blame, but unfairness is definitely not a term I'd use to describe any of the Souls games in general.

And the first time I ever encountered a mimic, I was actually impressed how even the desire for loot was boldly turned against me. The gruesome design of the damn thing was memorable as well.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Yeah, this is total bullshit. I died often in DS1. It was almost never my fault.

Somehow, I doubt it.

The treasure chest that eats you.

I guess without a player message warning you it might surprise you. But funnily enough the mimics are actually moving, and the chain around them is different than on normal chests. Still, it's hard to notice, so I'll grant you that one if you're playing offline.

Enemies that shoot toxic arrows at you from the darkness.

How is that unfair? The first time I was shot and saw my toxic bar fill up I was like "WTF?" but figured it out pretty quickly. I actually watched my boyfriend play Dark Souls (his first playthrough) a few days ago, and he took care of the dart snipers pretty quickly. He was patient and panned the camera around and was observant. It's not rocket science.

The archers on Anor Lando - possibly the cheapest most bullshit enemy ever.

Hah oh man. Can't believe people still bitch about this. The only unfair part is the physics of the arrow that push your character according to the angle of the character rather than the angle of the arrow impact, but I suspect that's a tech limitation rather than intended design. But yeah just roll through and then kill the knight. Easy.

Stumbling onto Ornstein and Smough for the first time.

"Stumbling onto"? You mean the giant fog gate inside a giant main hall of a giant castle didn't warn you "boss is coming"? Not to mention they're 30 seconds away from the nearest bonfire. Anyway, it's a tough fight but not an unfair one. You can summon help from an NPC, there are pillars to use strategically, the first one you kill goes down really fast, and so on.

The fire breathing damage that you have no chance to fight one on one and you're forced to hide.

You mean the bridge drake? You can certainly melee him, but you can also completely skip him. Not sure what the issue is. You could argue that the first time he arrives on that bridge and spews fire, it's a bit of a cheap ambush moment, but the fire doesn't even OHKO at SL 1 so the game gives you a chance to learn.

The first time you get to the ghosts or the skeletons.

My boyfriend, again who's a total noob going in blind, figured out how to fight the ghosts right away. He actually read the description of the item he picked up right before going into New Londo, imagine that. Then he couldn't attack the ghosts, went "oh, I see", retreated, used the transient curses, and then tried again. He died and gave up because the area is pretty hard for a beginner, but not because of anything "unfair".
The skeletons? What's unfair about them? I went there first thing in my first playthrough. I died a few times 'cause they were hard, and decided I should come back there later. What's the problem?

The many gifs of cheap kills.

Such as? The funniest gifs are for funny derpy deaths, not "cheap kills".

Battletoads is way less cheap and more forgiving.

lol, sure.

The funniest thing is that Dark Souls does have a few unfair moments. But it's not the Anor Londo archers or stuff like that. Here are some actually unfair Dark Souls moments, before anyone screams "fangirl" at me:

- Seath's first encounter
- Bed of Chaos
- Lost Izalith dinosaurs, particularly pre-patch (messy lock-on, wonky hitboxes, but at least they can be skipped more easily now)
- Fog ring NPCs pre-patch (patched fixed it)
- Finding the DLC areas. It's so obtuse and ridiculous. If you beat the Hydra, then proceed ahead, the golden golem isn't there until you reload. Kind of stupid.

 

[Kr0gan_73]

Not sure if unfair or not, but the final boss in Wolfenstein: The New Order had me yelling profanity at my PC monitor. I haven't been that irritated in a long time.

 

[JudgmentJay]

People saying O&S in Dark Souls 1 makes me sad. Best fight in the Souls series in my opinion.

Yeah, this is total bullshit. I died often in DS1. It was almost never my fault.

This might be the most ridiculous post I've ever seen on NeoGAF, and that's saying something!

 

[Fractal]

Here are some actually unfair Dark Souls moments, before anyone screams "fangirl" at me:

- Seath's first encounter
- Bed of Chaos
- Lost Izalith dinosaurs, particularly pre-patch (messy lock-on, wonky hitboxes, but at least they can be skipped more easily now)
- Fog ring NPCs pre-patch (patched fixed it)
- Finding the DLC areas. It's so obtuse and ridiculous. If you beat the Hydra, then proceed ahead, the golden golem isn't there until you reload. Kind of stupid.

I see this one brought often, and since you seem to know your stuff when it comes to Dark Souls, could you elaborate?

Never had any problems myself, I remember falling to my death a few times on the way to the weak spots, but that's all. And they don't even "respawn", which is helpful.

@Lothar
Forgot to say, do yourself a favor and stay away from Dark Souls 2. Eventually you'd reach a certain wondrous area which makes a few toxic archers of Blighttown seem like walk in the park... which would probably lead to a rampage in your case!

 

[Euron]

Defiled Chalice Dungeon

Spoiler

Amygdala

Boss fight from Bloodborne. The

Spoiler

Watchdog of the Old Lords

is very difficult but fair since there are only two moves that can kill you in one hit that are easily avoidable.

Spoiler

Defiled Chalice Amygdala

is just bullshit.

 

[TemplaerDude]

There are a few parts in the Dark Souls series I'd say are unfair, but for the most part I died a lot because I was being lazy. I will say that one part with the archers shooting at you on the thin roof I, uh, had no trouble with that. Was dreading it for days, heard terrors of it from the Bombcast and on here, and I just killed those motherfuckers easily. But again, I wasn't being lazy and on my toes. Game doesn't let you relax.

 

[Genryu]

Man, this thread is just making me want to run through Dark Souls again.

 

[CruelTott]

I'm pretty sure they intentionally designed the Zodiac spear to be impossible to obtain.
The four chests is basically a code that came with the guide.
The equivalent now with online consoles would be a code for a DLC weapon instead.

So missing out on it is on the same level as missing out on some preorder bonus item.

 

[Tye The Czar]

The giant hordes of enemies in the Serious Sam series would be managable most of the time... if you actually had enough firepower to hold all of them off.

But then they start throwing hordes of these clopping bastards at you.

Croteam pls nerf.

Spoiler

Otherwise you'll never be better than Painkiller.

 

[DeaviL]

The giant hordes of enemies in the Serious Sam series would be managable most of the time... if you actually had enough firepower to hold all of them off.

But then they start throwing hordes of these clopping bastards at you.

Croteam pls nerf.

Spoiler

Otherwise you'll never be better than Painkiller.

Strafing has become an advanced technique?

 

[Gyossaits]

Bloodborne and Spelunky unfair?

I disagree highly.

HORSE SHIT. You damn well know there are times when sacrificial altars in Spelunky will get blown up the moment you enter the level.

Enemy placement can also screw you when you enter a level. And there was even one early Spelunky daily where you can die by a block trap when starting a Temple level.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

I see this one brought often, and since you seem to know your stuff when it comes to Dark Souls, could you elaborate?

Never had any problems myself, I remember falling to my death a few times on the way to the weak spots, but that's all. And they don't even "respawn", which is helpful.

For one thing, puzzle/gimmick bosses that are independent of build or gear like that are really not suited for Dark Souls. There's no real strategy or tactic. But unlike, say, Dragon God where it's at least a bit more fair, Bed of Chaos is just rigged against the player by having those sweeping attacks push you into a suddenly collapsed floor (so you can't tank them and they're hard to dodge/i-frame through) -- it's basically just really easy to fall even if you're skilled or careful, which is shitty design. Dragon God also didn't punish you for standing still and observing the area (since it's a "puzzle boss" after all, you'd think that's the best plan), but Bed of Chaos does by throwing those firestorms at you if you stop and try to observe what's going on. Then the end phase basically requires platforming, which is extra dumb in a Souls boss fight.

It's unsurprising that everyone hates it and that even From has apologized for this boss, really.

 

[Timu]

That particular part is pretty doable. Here is where the game turns into a dick...

Scroll ghoul off the screen, duck under bird and slash the guy that jumps towards you...that's all you have to do.=p

 

[Lusankya]

When Football Manager decides to give you the middle finger.

A nice example of my current Newcastle game. 2 games left, I'm first with 1 point over Chelsea and I have to face West Brom, which is 14th or so on the table.

34 shots, 20 on target, 0-5 defeat. Yay.

I still had a chance to win the league, tho. I just need to win the last game and a Chelsea defeat, who will play the 18th classified. Easy peasy. Or almost. Look when did Norwich score.

Wonderful trolling stuff.

Looks like real football to me.

 

[Nere]

Dunno if it has been mentioned but the damned ghost fishes in ninja gaiden black. I have never seen a more unfair enemy in all games I have played, none. They grab you and sometimes they deplete your entire health or some other times they just leave you right away and there is nothing you can possibly do. Hate them!

 

[Tye The Czar]

Strafing has become an advanced technique?

Sure, I can strafe to evade one or two of them coming visibly from the front. When you have almost every variety of enemy on every side, including from behind it stops being fun.

The usual Git Gud attitude is a pathetic excuse for cheap design.

 

[Synth]

Sure, I can strafe to evade one or two of them coming visibly from the front. When you have almost every variety of enemy on every side, including from behind it stops being fun.

The usual Git Gud attitude is a pathetic excuse for cheap design.

I've been told to "Git Gud" at Sonic 06 before, because it's demonstrably possible to beat the game without dying, or encountering any major bugs when played "properly"

I wish I was joking (and wasn't related to the person in question).

 

[Hypron]

HORSE SHIT. You damn well know there are times when sacrificial altars in Spelunky will get blown up the moment you enter the level.

Enemy placement can also screw you when you enter a level. And there was even one early Spelunky daily where you can die by a block trap when starting a Temple level.

It's true that the RNG can royally fuck you over if it wants to in Spelunky (shopkeepers randomly getting angry at you while walking through the black market, exits completely closed off by 2 tiki traps, strong enemies instantly aggroing you as you start a level (boomerang cavemen and croc-men are especially bad. I've already had levels where I died within half a second of starting because I didn't jump up the moment it started).

However, I feel that for a game that's randomly generated it's usually pretty fair. A lot more than, say, The Binding of Isaac for example.

 

[Crimsonclaw111]

For one thing, puzzle/gimmick bosses that are independent of build or gear like that are really not suited for Dark Souls. There's no real strategy or tactic. But unlike, say, Dragon God where it's at least a bit more fair, Bed of Chaos is just rigged against the player by having those sweeping attacks push you into a suddenly collapsed floor (so you can't tank them and they're hard to dodge/i-frame through) -- it's basically just really easy to fall even if you're skilled or careful, which is shitty design. Dragon God also didn't punish you for standing still and observing the area (since it's a "puzzle boss" after all, you'd think that's the best plan), but Bed of Chaos does by throwing those firestorms at you if you stop and try to observe what's going on. Then the end phase basically requires platforming, which is extra dumb in a Souls boss fight.

It's unsurprising that everyone hates it and that even From has apologized for this boss, really.

Thank God you can easily cheese it.

 

[Monocle]

I think this is what I need to do. I kept trying to get into the game but just couldn't. I love the game and I want to enjoy it, but the combat is rough to put all together and some of the earlier bosses can be tough. It feels like a game of timing, but changing weapons with the tablet and getting the perfect timing on reflecting attacks is difficult to put all together at once. There's a rhythm to the combat, I just haven't gotten it yet. Next time I start it up I'll set it to easy and run through it that way. Platinum games are really replayable so I'll go back and play it on normal after.

Good, I think you'll have a much better time that way.

 

[bobawesome]

The stupid fight in the

Spoiler

heart of the Bionis

towards the end of Xenoblade. Oh hey, here's a room with pits full of poison. And four or five minions that are constantly being respawned. And your attacks do jack-shit. And you're constantly being debuffed or thrown into the pits of poison. My hands cramp up just thinking about all the micro-managing I have to do. This is one of the worst boss fights I've played in a game, let alone a JRPG.

In summary:

 

[crazyprac]

Getting Tasker and Theo to drop in diablo3.

 

[Kamina777]

This was amazing...

Agreed, he is an analogy savant.

 

[Aeqvitas]

I called this the Emperor's big bag of grenades

 

[OrlanisWorks]

Fuck this in the original version of Metro 2033 (thank god they fixed this in the Redux version)

I gave up on Metro 2033 for a few weeks after failing that part so many times. I mean, come on YOU STUPID SHIT! MILLER, STOP WALKING! LET ME KILL THEIR NESTS FIRST, YOU DUMB FUCK!

Yeah, that part really sucked. The worst escort mission I ever played.

 

[Soodanim]

That is some impressive fucking work.

I hated the archers of Anor Londo unil I saw speed runners do it. It's actually laughably easy when you know how, and the dread of approaching it with any number of souls I'd rather not lose is replaced with nothingness now. Half the time that first archer pulls his sword out and runs at you, but because it's a fixed animation and a narrow ledge (and a corner) he just runs right off to his death.

But I still maintain that the knock back is cheap as fuck. The other day I got a Dragonslayer Spear, which has a lightning projectile. I shot one of the winged demon enemies in the side, and his knock back was in the direction that normal physics would suggest. So it's one rule for them and another for us.

 

[Fractal]

For one thing, puzzle/gimmick bosses that are independent of build or gear like that are really not suited for Dark Souls. There's no real strategy or tactic. But unlike, say, Dragon God where it's at least a bit more fair, Bed of Chaos is just rigged against the player by having those sweeping attacks push you into a suddenly collapsed floor (so you can't tank them and they're hard to dodge/i-frame through) -- it's basically just really easy to fall even if you're skilled or careful, which is shitty design. Dragon God also didn't punish you for standing still and observing the area (since it's a "puzzle boss" after all, you'd think that's the best plan), but Bed of Chaos does by throwing those firestorms at you if you stop and try to observe what's going on. Then the end phase basically requires platforming, which is extra dumb in a Souls boss fight.

It's unsurprising that everyone hates it and that even From has apologized for this boss, really.

I see... got pretty lucky and just moved on so I didn't think about it much, but that's a fair point. Guess the battle can easily turn into an exercise in frustration regardless of your skill if you hit a bad streak, and not letting you observe definitely goes against the Souls philosophy.

 

[Hidden One]

 

[Zomba13]

HORSE SHIT. You damn well know there are times when sacrificial altars in Spelunky will get blown up the moment you enter the level.

Enemy placement can also screw you when you enter a level. And there was even one early Spelunky daily where you can die by a block trap when starting a Temple level.

I definitely agree that Spelunky (and other games with randomly generated levels) can be unfair due to the the vary nature of random/procedural placement of things. You could get screwed upon entering a level due to placement that you had no way or knowing about or influencing.

On the whole though Spelunky is pretty fair but you do get unfair layouts sometimes.

 

[Pyramid head]

If you move in quickly on the archer to the right, the archer to the left will soon be out of range to hit you.

Yup. I've always taken out the right archer first by approaching him quickly and rolling under his arrows, I don't even recall ever seeing an incoming arrow from the left after I've reached the top of the butress in all my playthroughs. I've only ever been killed by these archers once and that was only because I was resuming a playthrough after a several month break and pressed the wrong button to block a sword swing, resulting in a mis-timed parry.

 

[PiPSmallie]

Defiled Chalice Dungeon

Spoiler

Amygdala

Boss fight from Bloodborne. The

Spoiler

Watchdog of the Old Lords

is very difficult but fair since there are only two moves that can kill you in one hit that are easily avoidable.

Spoiler

Defiled Chalice Amygdala

is just bullshit.

I'm actually currently stuck on this... It is actual bullshit! It would not be so hard if they hadn't given her a fuck ton of health for a cheap way to make it harder.

 

[Chitown B]

I hated the archers of Anor Londo unil I saw speed runners do it. It's actually laughably easy when you know how, and the dread of approaching it with any number of souls I'd rather not lose is replaced with nothingness now. Half the time that first archer pulls his sword out and runs at you, but because it's a fixed animation and a narrow ledge (and a corner) he just runs right off to his death.

But I still maintain that the knock back is cheap as fuck. The other day I got a Dragonslayer Spear, which has a lightning projectile. I shot one of the winged demon enemies in the side, and his knock back was in the direction that normal physics would suggest. So it's one rule for them and another for us.

I don't get how the other archer isn't shooting him from behind. They are always doing that when I play it.

 

[Saro]

Rematch with Canary Mary in Banjo-Tooie, the leading cause of carpal tunnel in N64 owners. Doesn't matter how fast you mash A, she always catches up near the end of the race.

My proudest achievement was beating that bird brained cheater for the final cheat sheet.

 

[Pinky]

Scroll ghoul off the screen, duck under bird and slash the guy that jumps towards you...that's all you have to do.=p

You are correct! That trick makes things a hell of a lot easier. However, you know those sadistic fucks at Tecmo didn't count on players discovering that.

 

[Zoloft Sonic]

Gradius V.

Brilliant game that made me go "Come oooooooon" just one too many times. I'm open to the possibility that it's just me though.

 

[zma1013]

The Nuclear Armadillo in Ninja Gaiden 2. For those who have not had the misfortune of dying to this boss, you face him at the end of Chapter 7, immediately after fighting another, quite challenging, boss (Genshin). What makes this boss unfair? After his life bar reaches zero, the boss lays dead for a few seconds. Then, he explodes. You die. He is the only enemy up to this point to exhibit this behaviour. No matter what you do, when you kill him, you die. So how do you progress? You block the damn explosion with your sword. But perhaps there is a history of blocking explosions with the sword? No. Any other explosion will break your block, up to this point. There is no other way to survive the boss's explosion, you have to block a gigantic explosion.

Later on you fight two of them, that's alright, because you already know the behaviour, but the very first fight at the end of Chapter 7 is ridiculously unfair. Whatever about any other point in the game, they're challenging but can generally be overcome with skill; this boss's first appearance is just unfair as there is no indication what will happen, and there's no indication as to how you should survive it even when you do know without trial and error.

Yep, pretty much. Me and my friend were stuck on the 2 of them having never figured out that you could block the nuclear explosion since we used Ninpo the first time for invincibility. Once we got to fighting 2 of them, we only had one Ninpo use and so we could survive one of them but not the other. Tried everything we could think of and must have fought that boss over a dozen times. Had to read about how to beat it and we were so angry about the solution. It didn't make any sense.

 

[Septimus Prime]

Shao Khan is bullshit because he can just sometimes decide you didn't hit him. Like, you can tell your hitboxes connected while he wasn't blocking, but then he takes no damage or hitstun. It's almost as bad as the old SNK bosses, who would read your inputs and counter everything you do.

 

[Sumio Mondo]

Forbidden Siren definitely has a few. Like that mission where you're escorting the little girl whilst playing as the Priest. Since the Priest can't attack any enemies and there's trigger happy Shibito freaking everywhere it quickly turns into game over time and time again. Then there's also the other escort missions that always turn nasty too since the partner AI is all messed up; where your partner will just stand there and let the Shibito just lay into them, ultimately to their deaths. Then there's the fact that you have to grab all of the hidden items on the map to advance the storyline...in such a foggy atmosphere and some really gruelling, long missions, it's kinda ridiculous to force you to play through them again, especially in ones where you can get one hit deaths!

Thankfully, they really improved this with further games in the series (with 2, there's multiple paths, the AI of your partners is much improved, there's more options to fight back and the partners in missions actually run away when enemies turn up instead of standing on the spot all confused, ffs, in Blood Curse there's far less escort missions in general, thank goodness and the game controls much better), but that first Siren game was just shit for that. It did lead to a lot of unnecessary frustration.

 

[Mandelbo]

Not sure if unfair or not, but the final boss in Wolfenstein: The New Order had me yelling profanity at my PC monitor. I haven't been that irritated in a long time.

This annoyed me as well. It felt as if damage was coming from every direction, made worse by the fact that the gas pipes seemingly gave no warning as to when they would burst, which made it very difficult for me to dodge them or really use any strategy other than tanking the damage.

 

[Widge]

*enters thread and is immediately killed by Capra Demon*

 

[Burger_Baron]

This:

The damn thing was impossible to do as a kid. My thumb starts to hurt from just watching.

I was not able to complete this myself. Had to ask one of my friends, who was notorious for his button smashing skills to do it for me, and it took even him couple of tries to get it.

Feel the pain

 

[Orin GA]

Fuck this place.

 

[Euron]

I'm actually currently stuck on this... It is actual bullshit! It would not be so hard if they hadn't given her a fuck ton of health for a cheap way to make it harder.

I defend most of Miyazaki's design choices but you can't defend this or tell me it's a good idea. It's absolute bullshit. It has a ton of health. You have half health. It's harder to damage than any other boss in the game. It can one hit kill you without warning. The jump attack is incredibly inconsistent. I can go on and on.

 

[BlackRock]

I guess it's best to say the game isn't for you... dying in Dark Souls is pretty much an integral part of the experience, a means to progress and learn. First time playing, you're expected to die, a lot... even if you're familiar with the concepts of the game. I mean, even the marketing slogan was "Prepare to Die", so you know what you're getting yourself into. Now, I don't mean to say every single death is completely fair with only the player to blame, but unfairness is definitely not a term I'd use to describe any of the Souls games in general.

And the first time I ever encountered a mimic, I was actually impressed how even the desire for loot was boldly turned against me. The gruesome design of the damn thing was memorable as well.

I disagree that the cheap deaths don't detract from the game when you pay such a heavy price in your lost time for dying. If there was a checkpoint system where you had to repeat less work, it would be far more forgivable. Getting a cheap death just isn't any fun when you are then forced redo the past 15 min (or worse) worth of work. It's just frustrating. I play games to have fun. I don't want to be punished for not having precognition. There are undeniably cheap deaths in Dark Souls and part of the challenge in the game is memorization. The game is massively easier on replays because of this. It's not really a game that requires lightning reflexes or complex strategy. It's knowing the ropes and what especially what the tricks are.

I maintain Dark Souls would be a far better game without the cheap shots.

 

[the-pi-guy]

Didn't even think of it, but yes.
I think this was the hardest part of the entire series.
Still loved the game though.

 

[Journeywalker]

Bayonetta 2:

Spoiler

Rodin

He feels like a throwback to 16-bit bosses, where you can be pretty good at the game and still barely scratch him on the first 10 tries. Of course, he has a move that knocks you down to 1HP. At first, it has a wind-up, but as you get closer to beating him, the wind-up gets incredibly short. I think it took me about 120 tries. I wish I counted, because it could easily be more. The progress is never linear, so you often feel like you're just spinning your wheels. You'll get him down to 1/3 health, and then the next time he'll combo you at the very start and you'll barely get him down to 2/3.