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Tobacco-Free Hiring in Workplaces

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Carnby

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"Hospitals Shift Smoking Bans to Smoker Ban
By A. G. SULZBERGER
Published: February 10, 2011

More hospitals and medical businesses in many states are adopting strict policies that make smoking a reason to turn away job applicants, saying they want to increase worker productivity, reduce health care costs and encourage healthier living.

The policies reflect a frustration that softer efforts — like banning smoking on company grounds, offering cessation programs and increasing health care premiums for smokers — have not been powerful-enough incentives to quit.

The new rules essentially treat cigarettes like an illegal narcotic. Applications now explicitly warn of “tobacco-free hiring,” job seekers must submit to urine tests for nicotine and new employees caught smoking face termination.

This shift — from smoke-free to smoker-free workplaces — has prompted sharp debate, even among anti-tobacco groups, over whether the policies establish a troubling precedent of employers intruding into private lives to ban a habit that is legal.

“If enough of these companies adopt theses policies and it really becomes difficult for smokers to find jobs, there are going to be consequences,” said Dr. Michael Siegel, a professor at the Boston University School of Public Health, who has written about the trend. “Unemployment is also bad for health.”

Smokers have been turned away from jobs in the past — prompting more than half the states to pass laws rejecting bans on smokers — but the recent growth in the number of companies adopting no-smoker rules has been driven by a surge of interest among health care providers, according to academics, human resources experts and tobacco opponents.

There is no reliable data on how many businesses have adopted such policies. But people tracking the issue say there are enough examples to suggest the policies are becoming more mainstream, and in some states courts have upheld the legality of refusing to employ smokers.

For example, hospitals in Florida, Georgia, Massachusetts, Missouri, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Tennessee and Texas, among others, stopped hiring smokers in the last year and more are openly considering the option.

“We’ve had a number of inquiries over the last 6 to 12 months about how to do this,” said Paul Terpeluk, a director at the Cleveland Clinic, which stopped hiring smokers in 2007 and has championed the policy. “The trend line is getting pretty steep, and I’d guess that in the next few years you’d see a lot of major hospitals go this way.”

A number of these organizations have justified the new policies as advancing their institutional missions of promoting personal well-being and finding ways to reduce the growth in health care costs.

About 1 in 5 Americans still smoke, and smoking remains the leading cause of preventable deaths. And employees who smoke cost, on average, $3,391 more a year each for health care and lost productivity, according to federal estimates.

“We felt it was unfair for employees who maintained healthy lifestyles to have to subsidize those who do not,” Steven C. Bjelich, chief executive of St. Francis Medical Center in Cape Girardeau, Mo., which stopped hiring smokers last month. “Essentially that’s what happens.”

Two decades ago — after large companies like Alaska Airlines, Union Pacific and Turner Broadcasting adopted such policies — 29 states and the District of Columbia passed laws, with the strong backing of the tobacco lobby and the American Civil Liberties Union, that prohibit discrimination against smokers or those who use “lawful products.” Some of those states, like Missouri, make an exception for health care organizations.

A spokesman for Philip Morris said the company was no longer actively working on the issue, though it remained strongly opposed to the policies.

Meghan Finegan, a spokeswoman for the Service Employees International Union, which represents 1.2 million health care workers, said the issue was “not on our radar yet.”

One concern voiced by groups like the National Workrights Institute is that such policies are a slippery slope — that if they prove successful in driving down health care costs, employers might be emboldened to crack down on other behavior by their workers, like drinking alcohol, eating fast food and participating in risky hobbies like motorcycle riding. The head of the Cleveland Clinic was both praised and criticized when he mused in an interview two years ago that, were it not illegal, he would expand the hospital policy to refuse employment to obese people.

“There is nothing unique about smoking,” said Lewis Maltby, president of the Workrights Institute, who has lobbied vigorously against the practice. “The number of things that we all do privately that have negative impact on our health is endless. If it’s not smoking, it’s beer. If it’s not beer, it’s cheeseburgers. And what about your sex life?”

Many companies add their own wrinkle to the smoking ban. Some even prohibit nicotine patches. Some companies test urine for traces of nicotine, while others operate on the honor system.

While most of the companies applied their rules only to new employees, a few eventually mandated that existing employees must quit smoking or lose their jobs. There is also disagreement over whether to fire employees who are caught smoking after they are hired. The Truman Medical Centers, here in Kansas City, for example, will investigate accusations of tobacco use by employees. In one recent case a new employee returned from a lunch break smelling of smoke and, when confronted by his supervisor, admitted that he had been smoking, said Marcos DeLeon, head of human resources for the hospital. The employee was fired.

Even antismoking advocates have found the issue tricky to navigate. The American Lung Association, the American Cancer Society and the World Health Organization do not hire smokers, citing their own efforts to reduce smoking.

But the American Legacy Foundation, an antismoking nonprofit group, has warned that refusing to hire smokers who are otherwise qualified essentially punishes an addiction that is far more likely to afflict a janitor than a surgeon. (Indeed, of the first 14 applicants rejected since the policy went into effect in October at the University Medical Center in El Paso, Tex., one was applying to be a nurse and the rest for support positions.)

“We want to be very supportive of smokers, and the best thing we can do is help them quit, not condition employment on whether they quit,” said Ellen Vargyas, chief counsel for the American Legacy Foundation. “Smokers are not the enemy.”

Taking a drag of her cigarette outside the University of Kansas School of Nursing, just beyond the sign warning that smoking is prohibited on campus, Mandy Carroll explained that she was well aware of the potential consequences of her pack-a-day habit: both her parents died of smoking-related illnesses. But Ms. Carroll, a 26-year-old nursing student, said she opposed any effort by hospitals to “discriminate” against her and other smokers.

“Obviously we know the effects of smoking, we see it every day in the hospital,” Ms. Carroll said. “It’s a stupid choice, but it’s a personal choice.”

Others do not mind the strict policy. John J. Stinson, 68, said he had been smoking for more than three decades when he decided to apply for a job at the Cleveland Clinic, helping incoming patients, nearly three years ago.

It turned out to be the motivation he needed: he passed the urine test and has not had a cigarette since. “It’s a good idea,” Mr. Stinson said."
 

Fusebox

Banned
I can understand a formal agreement not to smoke at work or during work hours, but urine tests?! That's absurd, they should be allowed to do whatever they want once they punch out for the day.
 

Gallbaro

Banned
They should also stop hiring fat people, seeing as how that increases the cost of the employee in a variety of direct and indirect ways.
 

Gaborn

Member
Employers should have the right to discriminate. I'm not sure that it will be able to continue this policy under the current law but that should absolutely be within their rights.
 

Pinzer

Unconfirmed Member
Most of the people that are "so against" smoking don't know what they're talking about, they have just been propagandized into thinking there is absolutely no reason to smoke. After smoking some tobacco I see the appeal and while I still don't think the benefits warrant the health risks, I am able to understand why some people do smoke. Workplaces should not be allowed to discriminate against smokers if the habit is not affecting their job performance.
 

Jayge

Member
Out of curiosity bred by ignorance, how sensitive are the urine tests? I went to school where I was literally part of a group of 3 people out of 40 who didn't smoke, and I'm guessing I would have failed it based on how much I ended up inhaling anyway. How can this possibly be accurate?
 
Pinzer said:
Most of the people that are "so against" smoking don't know what they're talking about, they have just been propagandized into thinking there is absolutely no reason to smoke. After smoking some tobacco I see the appeal and while I still don't think the benefits warrant the health risks, I am able to understand why some people do smoke. Workplaces should not be allowed to discriminate against smokers if the habit is not affecting their job performance.


it's a hygene issue. Smokers smell like shit. I had to sit next to one in my cubicle and it sucked every time she came back from one of her 11 smoking breaks. If she was not showering or had B.O. we could have actually had HR talk to her and say something, but because she smokes everyone else has to just grin and bear it.
 

Suairyu

Banned
This goes above and beyond and into the realms of discrimination. The arrangement is thus: don't smoke at work. If the inability to smoke affects their ability to work, whatever, fire them. But don't preemptively assume it will. That's bullcrap.

Edit - smelling like a smoker directly affects your work colleagues, so that's a good grounds for being fired, too. But don't assume the smokers won't was well (you probably don't need to, though; you could tell in the interview).
 

Home

Member
I can understand restricting it at the workplace, citing concerns for other workers etc, but I can't agree with urine tests; people should be able to do what they want when not at work.

Pinzer, what is a valid reason to smoke, to risk your health so seriously for seemingly, no benefit to you or others?
 

Firestorm

Member
Pinzer said:
Most of the people that are "so against" smoking don't know what they're talking about, they have just been propagandized into thinking there is absolutely no reason to smoke. After smoking some tobacco I see the appeal and while I still don't think the benefits warrant the health risks, I am able to understand why some people do smoke. Workplaces should not be allowed to discriminate against smokers if the habit is not affecting their job performance.
No we just don't like the way you smell.
 

Dan

No longer boycotting the Wolfenstein franchise
This, this is definitely too far. I'm all for pretty progressive laws about where people can smoke since it can impact others, but this is crazy. Where would that stop?
 

Gaborn

Member
Jayge said:
Out of curiosity bred by ignorance, how sensitive are the urine tests? I went to school where I was literally part of a group of 3 people out of 40 who didn't smoke, and I'm guessing I would have failed it based on how much I ended up inhaling anyway. How can this possibly be accurate?

or, more interestingly, what if your spouse is a smoker and smokes in the house, and you're exposed to enough nicotine and such to be positive?
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Dan said:
This, this is definitely too far. I'm all for pretty progressive laws about where people can smoke since it can impact others, but this is crazy. Where would that stop?
What about other self-destructive behaviors that some people feel compelled to engage in, like anorexics? Should places be allowed to discriminate hiring based on people with eating disorders?
 
Gallbaro said:
They should also stop hiring fat people, seeing as how that increases the cost of the employee in a variety of direct and indirect ways.

hmm, good idea.

(am I being sarcastic or not? WHO KNOWS!!!)
 
Gaborn said:
or, more interestingly, what if your spouse is a smoker and smokes in the house, and you're exposed to enough nicotine and such to be positive?

The only thing worse than a smoker is a girl who is a smoker. Divorce is the right answer.
 

Zoe

Member
The_Technomancer said:
What about other self-destructive behaviors that some people feel compelled to engage in, like anorexics? Should places be allowed to discriminate hiring based on people with eating disorders?

And how does an anorexic affect other workers?
 

Gallbaro

Banned
The_Technomancer said:
What about other self-destructive behaviors that some people feel compelled to engage in, like anorexics? Should places be allowed to discriminate hiring based on people with eating disorders?

I should be allowed to discriminate on whatever the fucking metric I want if it gets me an employee that will be more productive per dollar cost than the others.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Zoe said:
And how does an anorexic affect other workers?
Well it makes you a much higher health risk as an employee.
Also, we generally acknowledge that anorexic people need help to get out of their destructive treatment of their bodies, which does not seem incredibly distinct from smoking to me.
 

bill0527

Member
Make everyone get a full physical before hiring.

Fat people - disqualified
Diabetes - disqualified
History of cancer - disqualified
High Blood pressure - disqualified
High Cholesterol - disqualified
History of mental illness such as depression - disqualified

Only perfectly healthy people with no history of health problems will be allowed to have jobs. Health care costs too much for all others.
 

Gallbaro

Banned
bill0527 said:
Make everyone get a full physical before hiring.

Fat people - disqualified
Diabetes - disqualified
History of cancer - disqualified
High Blood pressure - disqualified
High Cholesterol - disqualified
History of mental illness such as depression - disqualified

Only perfectly healthy people with no history of health problems will be allowed to have jobs. Health care costs too much for all others.

Why should problems which if anything can be laid as the responsibility of society become the problem of a private entity?
 

Zoe

Member
The_Technomancer said:
Well it makes you a much higher health risk as an employee.
Also, we generally acknowledge that anorexic people need help to get out of their destructive treatment of their bodies, which does not seem incredibly distinct from smoking to me.

That's not answering how an anorexic affects other employees.

The smell of a smoker has a direct impact on other employees.
 

Gallbaro

Banned
Zoe said:
That's not answering how an anorexic affects other employees.

The smell of a smoker has a direct impact on other employees.

It increases their health insurance premiums.

It increases their workload as the anorexic person is more likely to miss work.
 

Fusebox

Banned
The_Technomancer said:
What about other self-destructive behaviors that some people feel compelled to engage in, like anorexics? Should places be allowed to discriminate hiring based on people with eating disorders?
I'd be a pro-anorexic employer. They don't take lunch breaks!!
 

Koomaster

Member
Agree, keep increasing the cost of cigarettes and decreasing employment opportunities for smokers. Eventually they will be forced to quit one way or another.
 

Zoe

Member
bill0527 said:
Tough to get them out of the bathroom though.

That's bulimia.

Had a coworker I suspected was bulimic. It was disgusting and nauseating hearing her go into the bathroom every day.
 

sk3

Banned
One part of me thinks this is bullshit and they should be able to do whatever they want on their own time. But on the other hand I would do the exact same thing if I owned a company. I like the idea of companies setting moral and ethical standards, rather than being soulless greed-obsessed entities.
 

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
I think this crosses the line, it's one thing to charge smokers more for health insurance or other benefits that may cost more. But to police their private lives?

Regarding smell, I think it depends on hygine.
One asshole at work smelled like ass mixed with cigarettes, just nasty whenever he walked into a room. On the other hand, one of the other smokers at work was not nearly as bad.
 

Zoe

Member
Suikoguy said:
Regarding smell, I think it depends on hygine.
One asshole at work smelled like ass mixed with cigarettes, just nasty whenever he walked into a room. On the other hand, one of the other smokers at work was not nearly as bad.

Most people it's not a lingering issue, but it's still bad when they're fresh off their smoke break. I always had to avoid my old boss right after he smoked cause it was nauseating.
 

teh_pwn

"Saturated fat causes heart disease as much as Brawndo is what plants crave."
I for one welcome the the prohibition of smoking! Damages your health and reduces productivity. Besides, drugs are bad. I'm high on life.

*eats cake*
*grabs beer*
 

Pinzer

Unconfirmed Member
Home said:
Pinzer, what is a valid reason to smoke, to risk your health so seriously for seemingly, no benefit to you or others?

The idea that there is no benefit is a myth. If you smoke you can tell an almost immediate effect. Whether you think this effect is worth the health risks is up to the person, just as someone who eats a cheeseburger warrants the health risk because of the great taste.


teh_pwn said:
I for one welcome the the prohibition of smoking! Damages your health and reduces productivity. Besides, drugs are bad. I'm high on life.

*eats cake*
*grabs beer*

does...not...compute....
 

andycapps

Member
Ninja Scooter said:
it's a hygene issue. Smokers smell like shit. I had to sit next to one in my cubicle and it sucked every time she came back from one of her 11 smoking breaks. If she was not showering or had B.O. we could have actually had HR talk to her and say something, but because she smokes everyone else has to just grin and bear it.

You bring up another huge point, they take a lot more breaks than non-smokers. Multiply that by how many smokers you have at a company per day, then per week, then per year and that's a lot of wasted man hours. Not to mention the increased health care costs that most companies foot the majority of the bill for.

This shouldn't surprise anyone with the economy being the way it is, employers are looking for ways to increase productivity and cut costs. This is a pretty easy by-product of that.
 
Well hospitals and other medical professions ban alcohol and being drunk when on call too, right? How long do the effects of smoking linger in the body after a cigarette or ten? If the hospitals are citing that the effects linger on during their shift, then I don't have much of a problem.

I actually don't have much of a problem with banning them anyway. They can dictate what you wear, right? And other things that are symbols of "freedom?"
 
Pinzer said:
The idea that there is no benefit is a myth. If you smoke you can tell an almost immediate effect. Whether you think this effect is worth the health risks is up to the person, just as someone who eats a cheeseburger warrants the health risk because of the great taste.

Again... what is the benefit? seriously, assume I never smoked a cigarette. What benefits do I reap? I eat a cheeseburger, I'm no longer hungry. I smoke a cigarette, I... what potentially develop cancer while becoming addicted to nicotine substance?

Note: I'm not trying to be an ass. Just really curious. If the benefits are good enough, I might pick up the habit.
 

def sim

Member
Smoker hate in this thread is ridiculous. Bunch of babies.

I'm all for banning smoking with certain jobs, but prohibiting that when at home is extreme.

BrLvgThrChmstry said:
Again... what is the benefit? seriously, assume I never smoked a cigarette. What benefits do I reap? I eat a cheeseburger, I'm no longer hungry. I smoke a cigarette, I... what potentially develop cancer while becoming addicted to nicotine substance?

Note: I'm not trying to be an ass. Just really curious. If the benefits are good enough, I might pick up the habit.

Calming feeling. Relaxation.

Super addictive and expensive though so don't get into it.
 

Imbarkus

As Sartre noted in his contemplation on Hell in No Exit, the true horror is other members.
The power balance in the world has been steadily shifting from governments, and their laws, to corporations, and their hiring practices. Which actually impacts your life and behavior more?
 

Hari Seldon

Member
BrLvgThrChmstry said:
Again... what is the benefit? seriously, assume I never smoked a cigarette. What benefits do I reap? I eat a cheeseburger, I'm no longer hungry. I smoke a cigarette, I... what potentially develop cancer while becoming addicted to nicotine substance?

Note: I'm not trying to be an ass. Just really curious. If the benefits are good enough, I might pick up the habit.

You get a little pick up like drinking some coffee. And this is the 21st century you don't have to get tar to get nicotine, so banning nicotine is fucking retarded. Might as well just ban caffeine, mercury, trans-fats, non-diet soda, candy bars, fast food, pregnant people, single moms, and anything else that reduces productivity. Fuck it all.
 
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