-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Todd Howard explains PS3 Skyrim saga
- Thread starter AgentOtaku
- Start date
Not to mention the outright lie about the new engine...
Still, Skyrim PS3 is fixed and I'm enjoying the game.
I bought it used, something I never do. I would buy it new, day 1 if I wasn't wary about the whole Bethesda PS3 situation. When the game was finally released and at first it seemed to run fine on the PS3 many gaffers criticized me for not believing that the game was OK.
Lol, I even remember that on the first days some people were arguing that the PS3 version was better than the 360 one in many aspects.
I'm willing to give Bethesda a new chance and buy their games new, day one if they don't pull this shit again with their costumers. Review copies should be sent for every platform.
actually it kind of is.
when you are given a finite amount of time to develop a game why would you devote the most resources on the sku which performs the worst in sales? bethesda isnt sony they need to make their games multiplatform.
British Monsoon
Member
And that somehow gets them off the hook for flat-out lying about the quality of the port and doing their damnedest to ensure no reviewer got their hands on the PS3 copy pre-release? Give me a break.
As said before it would take years to eliminate all the bugs, even then you can't be sure, at least Bethesda stood up and addressed the issue's and brought out a patch to fix it.
PS3 should really take a leaf out of the N64:
I burst into laughter :lol high five
Deified Data
Banned
If Bethesda A) Refused to develop for Sony consoles, or B) Admitted the PS3 version would be inferior before launch, your post would be a sensible excuse. As it is, it's wrong on multiple levels.
It's good that they fixed it, I think the thing that left a bad taste in gamers was that they were definitely aware that the game will have a lot of bugs and they even mentioned that in one of the interview, that they were going to be quick this time at fixing them and providing a really quick way to adjust the game after the game was released, etc.
The thing is that it wasn't really that quick, it took approximately 3 months, the way they communicate with their users were pretty bad too, there is a community manager and I think sometimes he wasn't too sure with the progress on those patches (he even mentioned it wouldn't take "months" on gaf when they were doing damage control, but it did), until Bethesda released a public statement that it will be fixed in a january patch which came out in Feb, not to mention there were the quest bugs, etc, the roadmap is almost like a mmo in beta.
One of the patch was released and it broke magic resistance, and the patch that came out to fix that took nearly 2 weeks. That's half a month, but I do think there's the certification with Sony, but still... their QA feels kind of amateurish.
Patches are difficult and all that, I agree, but it's the way they deal with the issue, and the fact they know it's probably going to happen and doesn't seem like they've planned ahead that kind of bothers me... if you're going to release a broken product, I think you should be quick and steady with the patches at least, how many quest bugs were fixed in the first 2 months anyway?
The thing is that it wasn't really that quick, it took approximately 3 months, the way they communicate with their users were pretty bad too, there is a community manager and I think sometimes he wasn't too sure with the progress on those patches (he even mentioned it wouldn't take "months" on gaf when they were doing damage control, but it did), until Bethesda released a public statement that it will be fixed in a january patch which came out in Feb, not to mention there were the quest bugs, etc, the roadmap is almost like a mmo in beta.
One of the patch was released and it broke magic resistance, and the patch that came out to fix that took nearly 2 weeks. That's half a month, but I do think there's the certification with Sony, but still... their QA feels kind of amateurish.
Patches are difficult and all that, I agree, but it's the way they deal with the issue, and the fact they know it's probably going to happen and doesn't seem like they've planned ahead that kind of bothers me... if you're going to release a broken product, I think you should be quick and steady with the patches at least, how many quest bugs were fixed in the first 2 months anyway?
AgentP
Thinks mods influence posters politics. Promoted to QAnon Editor.
How lame. They decided to make the SKU, and they should have the integrity of doing it correctly. They made a business decision, the PS3 hardware and tools were not new or unknown. So this means they were bad at managing their time or got cheap with the number of resources. Blaming the PS3 or sony is LOL worthy, the console is five years old.
Castor Krieg
Banned
I'm sorry you think this way. I would say it is simple human courtesy, that if you decided to sell a PS3 version, and people bought it, you are obligated to provide support for that version. If you didn't want to do it, don't release a PS3 version, problem solved.
Again, I think Josh Sawyer is pretty qualified to comment on this issue, seeing as he worked with the engine on F:NV. He also doesn't have a reason to lie, unlike Todd Howard.
Nizz
Member
That's the part that pisses me off the most. Hardly anyone came to bat on the issue. I'm so glad Digital Foundry did the piece they did showing everyone just how screwed up the PS3 version was.
Game sites everywhere fawning over the game, yet when the PS3 version's problems really came to light it seems most game media's reaction was "sucks to be you".
ya you're right they could have handled it much much much better. imo i bet it was because of things like managment that this sorta thing happens, you have top level management screaming down and making unreasonable patch date expectations, the patch gets rushed, they ship an unfinished patch. the community rages its a vicious cycle lol.
I am not saying Todd Howard is 100% correct, but you are putting an awful lot of faith in one guy over another. One that worked on a older version of the current engine as well.
The truth is probably somewhere in between, but people tend to ignore that when trying to back up their own opinion.
Punchpudding
Member
Given the options they had, I think they downplayed the difference and planned to patch it up after launch (which they are doing). They made that choice after weighing all of their other options. Does that justify the hate they're getting? I don't know.
I don't think he's qualified to comment on the issue at all, New Vegas still has a variety of issues years after its release.
A bad workman always blames his tools. This is not 2007 anymore. If bethesda can't code for the ps3 then they should quit making games for it. simple as.
its not really a question of how i feel its about having to prioritize things so that you can ship a product. its like cutting off limb to save your body its the difficult decisions that they have to make sometimes.
yes not having skyrim on ps3 is a very reasonable option... smh
Castor Krieg
Banned
That's engine's fault, New Vegas is the most stable Gamebryo game, much more stable than Fallout 3.
As I said, they could've just come forward, admit to the problem, offer apologies, and get to work on fixing it. They made a choice, that is true. I'm just surprised who thought about hiding the issue first, and then ignoring it for some time when reports from players started coming in. I hope they learned their lesson now.
they already had a reputation for shitty quality. Skyrim just fit their usual pattern for buggy, unplayable rubbish.
not having a substandard broken product on the ps3 is a very reasonable option. i agree
SolidSnakex
Member
The PS3 issues in NV were worse than Fallout 3.
British Monsoon
Member
Even so, Skyrim PS3 is by far the one Bethesda game rendered mostly unplayable by bugs - and this is coming from someone who put over 200 hours into the vanilla version of Morrowind for the OG Xbox, which had a ton of problems, yet none that ever saw the FPS drop to 0 and the game become an broken mess.
Aizu_Itsuko
Member
"It's not our fault you played the game WRONG!" /pretty much
And here I thought software should run fine regardless of what the player does...
You have sort of fixed the problem now for the most part, apologize or move on but don't treat your consumers like idiots.
And here I thought software should run fine regardless of what the player does...
You have sort of fixed the problem now for the most part, apologize or move on but don't treat your consumers like idiots.
ZombieSupaStar
Member
So.....it's...our fault? The gamers?
The Steve Jobs Reality Distortion Field lives on!
lucius
Member
Bethseda should really give PS3 Skyrim owners some free DLC or discount on the first DLC, then more people will forgive them. I bought the 360 version of Skyrim, that they only sent 360 copies to be reviewed was a pretty big red flag.
Didn't they just re-release New Vegas with all DLC is that version playable after 60 hours?
They really should try to fix the original New Vegas, the fact that more reviewers never mentioned the problem with that game is probably a big reason they thought they would be able to get away with releasing Skyrim the way they did.
Edit:
Umm New Vegas is not more stable than Fallout 3 I own both console versions of Fallout3 and New Vegas 300+ hours in the series.
Didn't they just re-release New Vegas with all DLC is that version playable after 60 hours?
They really should try to fix the original New Vegas, the fact that more reviewers never mentioned the problem with that game is probably a big reason they thought they would be able to get away with releasing Skyrim the way they did.
Edit:
Umm New Vegas is not more stable than Fallout 3 I own both console versions of Fallout3 and New Vegas 300+ hours in the series.
Deified Data
Banned
I didn't even need to counter a post like your's with an argument. I did so out of a generalized respect, but I see that's not reciprocated.
Otherwise, you're wrong. Bethesda released a criminally-buggy game. They could have play tested it to the point where the first couple of patches wouldn't have been necessary. They didn't. They're to blame.
dragonelite
Member
I lolled and its probably true.
ZombieSupaStar
Member
how bad is it gonna get when they start bolting on DLC to the main game, which in the past has only made the problem worse and worse?
Punchpudding
Member
My impression is that they are working on fixing it (patches 1.2, 1.3, 1.4; accepting user saved games, etc). Besides that you're looking for an apology for what boils down to a somewhat shrewd business decision (that they are actively trying to correct).
Let's face it, as a gamer pure honesty would be nice (thanks, Valve) but the party that had the most to lose if Bethesda started saying that the PS3 version was inferior was Sony and I'm sure as a dev you're trying to preserve all those relationships too.
Maybe on release it was, but I can't agree with that now. The issues I had in Fallout 3 were fixed. The issues I had in New Vegas remain after over a year.
60 hour+ saves in Fallout 3 don't have near the level of slowdown and ice skating as they do in New Vegas. It's painful for me to navigate the Pipboy. I really wish this wasn't the case because I have 4 DLC expansions to play through but it's making it very difficult.
videogames
Banned
The best was walking all the way to your sweet new tower only to find a giant exclamation mark. Oblivion was such a good game <3
yes i am wrong because game studios have an infinite amount of time and the ps3 is on the same level of difficulty to develop for as the 360 and the PC. and sony has never had a history of making difficult platforms to develop for.
lol whatever. They knew it was shit, hence the complete lack of sending out any PS3 review copies. They wanted reviewers to spend as little of time as possible making sure it stacked up to the 360 version, before throwing out their GOTY awards.
All he's doing here is saying yup we failed to port the game properly, and yup we made sure you didn't know so you would lap it up.
All he's doing here is saying yup we failed to port the game properly, and yup we made sure you didn't know so you would lap it up.
Deified Data
Banned
They had the time to play test the game for a measly 20 hours.
lol, "As a mage, you may be tempted to join the College of Winterhold or hotkey certain spells. This is not advisable. The PS3-owner is advised to remain within the boundaries of Riverwood, and never start the main quest. We believe that, though different, this method of play is on par with other platforms experiences of Skyrim."
videogames
Banned
yeah, that ps2 version of morrowind was fucked
They're not blaming the player. They blame the way the engine handles everything the player is doing.
whalleywhat
Member
They knew the PS3 version was busted, and they made plenty money off it anyways. No mystery here.
its not a matter of testing, im sure they knew about the bug its about allocating enough development cycles to fix the problem. because engine code like memory management is so deep in the engine, simply throwing more money or more men at a problem wont fix it faster because there are only so many people within bethesda that fully understand the innerworkings of those very complicated systems.
what i suspect is that because skyrim pushed quite a few improvements in the underlying engine like in graphics, lighting, ai, and especially animation where as they may have had a buffer in fallout/obivion those improvements may have strained the already limited memory resources further and thats why this problem seems like it popped up now.
Intentionally deceive consumers, release one typical bethesda quality version + one buggier than usual version + one literally uplayable version, and finally blame the user without nutting up and taking blame. No more buying bethesda games for me.
Every media outlet that gave this game GOTY basically is anti-consumer as well. It really exposed them for what they are (as if we didn't know this gen).
Every media outlet that gave this game GOTY basically is anti-consumer as well. It really exposed them for what they are (as if we didn't know this gen).
Hmm. I came in here to see if there was any interesting technical discussion on PS3 memory, how Bethesda's scripting is affected by it and how other developers tackled similar situations, but I just see a lot of people calling Todd Howard a liar and the dev team lazy fucks that are laughing to the bank. Guess it's still too soon to have a rational discussion on the topic.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
game of the year
Deified Data
Banned
It's a contentious topic. A lot of people feel let down by their favorite developer.
I understand why Skyrim is the game it is. I don't believe they released a buggy game specifically to troll their fans. I'm just saying we should expect more from a AAA developer by now.
_/¯HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
I'm honestly confused as to why people actually believe that developers make games that cost millions of dollars just to "troll their fans".
Deified Data
Banned
Most sane people don't. It's a reactionary response to failed expectations.