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Toddler left in car all day, dies.
- Thread starter daw840
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Pretty much. If there was no intent to harm the child, this can be seen as nothing more than a tragic accident. It could happen to anyone. Awareness is the best way to prevent such a thing from happening.
You could say lack of caring is also a "failure of the brain." You could say this about a lot of things.
This and the nature of punishment make this a complicated issue that I don't pretend to have the answers to. I just don't like to see it brushed off like something trivial or obvious.
Dreams-Visions
Member
.......
Omegasquash
Member
I get how things can slip by, and I understand no sleep at all (I have a son and a daughter on the way), but there should be charges brought. Not out of malice, not out of me being judgmental...this was negligence on part of a caregiver that resulted in death.
More than anything this is tragic. I'm very sorry for the child and the mother, and I hope for whatever mercy a court may find in their hearts to give her, because the OP is right to a degree...there's nothing that will ever make this woman feel better again.
More than anything this is tragic. I'm very sorry for the child and the mother, and I hope for whatever mercy a court may find in their hearts to give her, because the OP is right to a degree...there's nothing that will ever make this woman feel better again.
Car seat with accelerometer.
Park the car when it's latched in and it beeps once every few seconds until you disengage the latch or press a button on the car seat to disable it for 5 minutes (lets you get the baby in, then have 5 minutes to get yourself in and ready to go).
If it's been over 20 minutes, the beep becomes louder, like a car alarm.
Alternatively, just like child safety locks, give cars a carseat mode.
A simple weight sensor in the seat, just like for airbags, to determine if the child is present. Could also calibrate the weight based on the parent pressing a button or latching the seatbelt.
When the car is turned off and the door opened, you can use the same chime system as the door/key minder.
If the baby is still left inside, the car can roll down the window, use the alarm/horn, etc.
Patent pending patent pending patent pending.
This logic gives a free pass to any fuckup, ever. (Also, it should be "failure of the brain to work properly".)
aparisi2274
Member
This is a tragedy and I feel bad for the mom, but in the article it says:
"It appears the mother mistakenly believed that she had dropped the boy off at day care on the way to work, police said"
Now, when I am driving my car, I have a clear view of the backseat via my rear view mirror. If she was driving I assume she would be looking in the rear view to check on the baby. If she had the car seat with the back toward her, I could understand her confusion as you don't actually see the baby.
The other iissue with the above statement from the article is that when she gets out of the car, wouldn't she see the car seat still contained a baby? Unless she has crazy tint on her windows, when she steps out of her car, would she not happen to look in the back seat and perhaps see some tiny legs?
Lastly, if she was driving to work, and the baby was left in the car, was this the quietest baby in the world that she did not hear any cooing, or breathing or some other form of communication from the back seat?
Again, I feel really bad about what happened, but I think it could have been prevented if she perhaps paid a little more attention to her surroundings.
Again, I am not looking to argue with anyone over this as I have stated that it is a real tragedy, I just think she could have been more thorough when exiting her car.
"It appears the mother mistakenly believed that she had dropped the boy off at day care on the way to work, police said"
Now, when I am driving my car, I have a clear view of the backseat via my rear view mirror. If she was driving I assume she would be looking in the rear view to check on the baby. If she had the car seat with the back toward her, I could understand her confusion as you don't actually see the baby.
The other iissue with the above statement from the article is that when she gets out of the car, wouldn't she see the car seat still contained a baby? Unless she has crazy tint on her windows, when she steps out of her car, would she not happen to look in the back seat and perhaps see some tiny legs?
Lastly, if she was driving to work, and the baby was left in the car, was this the quietest baby in the world that she did not hear any cooing, or breathing or some other form of communication from the back seat?
Again, I feel really bad about what happened, but I think it could have been prevented if she perhaps paid a little more attention to her surroundings.
Again, I am not looking to argue with anyone over this as I have stated that it is a real tragedy, I just think she could have been more thorough when exiting her car.
Rear facing car seats...they need to make front seats safe for children honestly. That would make this a lot better. A way to disable the airbags maybe.
Of the 613 times that this has happened, the news was saying one of the times was actually a NASA scientist. His colleagues have been designing a system to alert the driver of someone in the backseat. A weight sensor or something similar.
Negligence would be if she left the kid in the car with a juice box to keep cool throughout the day.
iKeepPlaying
Banned
C'mon, you can forget a lot of stuff.
You can forget to pay something, to turn on the washing machine, etc. But forgetting your own baby? Who the fuck does that?
Sorry if I think that she deserves to die, but she killed her own baby.
Did you even read the article? She didn't do it intentionally.
I'm sure she feels the same. But you're still pretty cruel. Mistakes happen. It's only unacceptable when you aren't making them though, eh?
why?
Ya sure the husband would love to see his wife killed right after his child. Taking another life solves nothing in this situation.
A thread like this needs a full disclosure clause. Do you or do you not have kids? I think it's important because it would certainly colour if not inform your opinion on the subject.
I have two kids.
The old saying is "It takes a village to raise a child." Before I had kids I thought this saying was allegorical and nuanced. Maybe it is. After having kids I now know that it also has a far more direct and simplistic meaning. Child raising is a ridiculous amount of work and the more helping hands you have the better off the whole family is. For todays modern nuclear family with relations spread out all over the country and the world, raising kids is harder than ever. There are no breaks. Two people or even one person must often do it all on their own. I think it's one of the big reasons why families are getting smaller and the birth rate is down.
I have been so utterly burnt out, exhausted, and mentally drained raising a family that I started avoiding driving my car whenever possible. Mistakes due to extreme fatigue and stress will be made and hopeful it just doesn't result in something serious like the nightmare scenarios in this thread. All humans suffer from the inheirent limits of their biology. You can't run at 100% at all times regardless of the demands being placed on you. People simply break down trying. Post-Pardum Depression is commonplace and fatigue plays a big role in it.
Each terrible case should be investigated but I don't believe in blanket charges. It's bullshit for a society to not help parents at all and then slam them with a criminal record when they fail. Trust me. Failing this hard as a parent sound like a suicide scenario to me. We as a society don't have enough compassion to collectively raise our young. I think the least we can do is show a bit of compassion for when it all goes horribly wrong.
I have two kids.
The old saying is "It takes a village to raise a child." Before I had kids I thought this saying was allegorical and nuanced. Maybe it is. After having kids I now know that it also has a far more direct and simplistic meaning. Child raising is a ridiculous amount of work and the more helping hands you have the better off the whole family is. For todays modern nuclear family with relations spread out all over the country and the world, raising kids is harder than ever. There are no breaks. Two people or even one person must often do it all on their own. I think it's one of the big reasons why families are getting smaller and the birth rate is down.
I have been so utterly burnt out, exhausted, and mentally drained raising a family that I started avoiding driving my car whenever possible. Mistakes due to extreme fatigue and stress will be made and hopeful it just doesn't result in something serious like the nightmare scenarios in this thread. All humans suffer from the inheirent limits of their biology. You can't run at 100% at all times regardless of the demands being placed on you. People simply break down trying. Post-Pardum Depression is commonplace and fatigue plays a big role in it.
Each terrible case should be investigated but I don't believe in blanket charges. It's bullshit for a society to not help parents at all and then slam them with a criminal record when they fail. Trust me. Failing this hard as a parent sound like a suicide scenario to me. We as a society don't have enough compassion to collectively raise our young. I think the least we can do is show a bit of compassion for when it all goes horribly wrong.
LegendofJoe
Member
The people in here unable to understand how someone could forget their child have probably never experienced severe stress and sleep deprivation. When I was working 30 hours a week and going to school full time I once drove all the way to work on a day I wasn't supposed to be there before I realized what I had done. I've also gone to work with my shit inside out a few times because I was barely aware of what I was doing while I was getting ready. This happened because I was under a lot of stress and I wasn't getting enough sleep. You can literally forget anything and everything if you're stressed enough and lacking sleep.
600+ people a year. Just because a mistake is a tragedy doesn't mean that it is negligent.
Himynameischris
Member
I'd be more worried about her killing herself then giving her any punishment, I can't imagine the guilt she's carrying right now...
Baconsammy
Banned
Worst case - because now you've just created a legit alibi for any crappy mom that's sick of having a kid. The "whoops!" defense.
People who are saying they don't understand how this can happen REALLY need to read the Washington Post article (the author won the Pulitzer for it):
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/27/AR2009022701549.html
Also, a device that can prevent it:
http://www.babyalert.info/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=6
another one:
http://www.babybeesafe.net/default.html
Iphone app:
http://www.safekids.org/safety-basi...er-leave-your-child-alone-baby-preminder.html
article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/30/automobiles/30HEAT.html?pagewanted=all
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/27/AR2009022701549.html
Also, a device that can prevent it:
http://www.babyalert.info/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=6
another one:
http://www.babybeesafe.net/default.html
Iphone app:
http://www.safekids.org/safety-basi...er-leave-your-child-alone-baby-preminder.html
article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/30/automobiles/30HEAT.html?pagewanted=all
NinjaBoiX
Member
Just genuinely suprised by your hardline "eye for an eye" point of view. But fair play, everyone has an opinion.
She is obviously a danger to her other child, so either that child should be taken away, or she should be put in jail. Babies are completely helpless, so to just brand this as an 'honest mistake' just doesn't cut it.
I can't imagine the suffering her baby went through because of her honest mistake.
I can't imagine the suffering her baby went through because of her honest mistake.
Thirteen months is right around the time you are supposed to switch from rear-facing to front-facing (assuming the child is at least 20 pounds).
I remember when my son was 13 months old - he had just started walking on his own and was learning all sorts of things about the world around him. I can't fathom that happening. It's upsetting even to think about it.
EDIT: THat being said, I also can't fathom how she forgot. Dropping my son off at daycare in the morning could get very repetitive yes, but I cannot imagine a scenario where I would forget to do it, no matter how tired or distracted I was.
I remember when my son was 13 months old - he had just started walking on his own and was learning all sorts of things about the world around him. I can't fathom that happening. It's upsetting even to think about it.
EDIT: THat being said, I also can't fathom how she forgot. Dropping my son off at daycare in the morning could get very repetitive yes, but I cannot imagine a scenario where I would forget to do it, no matter how tired or distracted I was.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Get out of here with all your reason, logic, research and data.
These mothers should just kill themselves. climb to the roofs of their apartment buildings and swan dive off them mothafuckas. Right, iKeepPlaying?
Really now? How exactly? Mistakes happen. Freakish nightmare scenario mistakes happen.
The Grim Heaper
Member
I'm going to assume that she does it most mornings(drop her child off at the daycare), so... how does she forget about the thing that she should love the most?
I feel for her and the family, but still...
I feel for her and the family, but still...
Baconsammy
Banned
How many mistakes is she allowed before it becomes a crime?
StriKeVillain
Banned
I can't imagine it'd be easy living with yourself after making a mistake of that magnitude.
I'm going to guess she's not going to leave her other child out of her sight for the rest of her life.
SnakeswithLasers
Member
This forum never ceases to amaze me.
What a horribly tragic situation.
What a horribly tragic situation.
It depends on whether you believe mistakes are similarly distributed among all people. If certain people are particularly mistake-prone, it may be reasonable to say that they shouldn't be responsible for raising young children. Whether it's "their fault" or not seems almost irrelevant.
Not necessarily my actual opinion; just seems like a reasonable interpretation that you were missing.
You'd be surprised. There are a lot of people calling for punishment around here too. It's definitely not just this forum. Seems like its about a 60/40 split. 40% for punishment. Granted, that 40% seems to be a lot of people who don't have kids.
There's a prior case with this happening with a motion sensor car alarm going off. The father thought it was just false positives or kids messing with the car.
DjangoReinhardt
Thinks he should have been the one to kill Batman's parents.
I think it might have something to do with her own gross negligence being the direct cause of her other child's death.
Gross negligence? It was a tragic mistake. Gross negligence would have been cracking the window and leaving the kid in the car while you go to get your nails done.
Mammoth Jones
Member
Put your wallet or cellphone in/under the seat with the kid so you have to physically go there when you get out of your car.
Absolutely tragic. I'm not even going to get into whether she should be charged or not, I just don't know. I can't imagine how shitty she must feel. If she doesn't get charged, I hope she pulls herself together for the sake of her other child.
Here's hoping the family can get past this.
Here's hoping the family can get past this.
faceless007
Member
You think people who want to find a way murder their child and get away with it will be deterred by the law?
That WaPo article is a must-read about this issue. But heart-breaking.
Baconsammy
Banned
You're also guessing that she didn't do it the first time on purpose. Dismissing gross negligence that results in a baby literally being heated to death is a slippery slope.
LegendofJoe
Member
Who cares?
The law exists to protect people, how would prosecuting this woman protect other infants from suffering this fate? It wouldn't. Selfish, viscous people with kids that have the intent to be rid of them will find a way to do it, it's up to those we entrust with enforcing the law to determine what their intent was.
The college-armchair-lawyers are out in force today.
Oh right, I forgot it's some nefarious plot for the woman to kill of her children.
Rubbish King
The gift that keeps on giving
it is definitely bad parent day today.
DjangoReinhardt
Thinks he should have been the one to kill Batman's parents.
neg·li·gence/ˈnegləjəns/
Noun:
Failure to take proper care in doing something: "some of these accidents are due to negligence".
Failure to use reasonable care, resulting in damage or injury to another.
gross (grs)
adj. gross·er, gross·est
1.
a. Exclusive of deductions; total: gross profits. See Synonyms at whole.
b. Unmitigated in any way; utter: gross incompetence.
2. Glaringly obvious: gross injustice. See Synonyms at flagrant.
I doubt it. Like most things, it would be handled in a case-by-case basis.
For example, if you leave your kid in your car while going into a store ... you aren't likely to get the benefit of the doubt since it's possible a parent would do it out of convenience. In this specific case, there is no convenience argument.
That said, I could certainly understand a charge of negligence.
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