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[ReadingRambo]

As a father (who drops his 1 year old off at daycare every day) fuck this lady.

a) if you are that stressed and tired don't fucking drive your 2 ton death machine around and endager everyone else.

b) there is NO way I could see this happening to me. No way.

You should REALLY read that Pulitzer Prize Winning Washington Post Article About Why You Are Wrong.

 

[EYEL1NER]

You should REALLY read that Pulitzer Prize Winning Washington Post Article About Why You Are Wrong.

Why should he? He's clearly got some super-human brain that is wired differently than all of our scumbag brains.
It couldn't ever happen to him. He is superior to us regular humans.

 

[ReadingRambo]

Why should he? He's clearly got some super-human brain that is wired differently than all of our scumbag brains.
It couldn't ever happen to him. He is superior to us regular humans.

Seriously. I physically cringed after reading what Flo wrote.

 

[base shagohod]

Enough until she commits suicide.
If that happened to me, I'd put a bullet in my head. I wouldn't even think about it.

Really? I don't even

 

[echoshifting]

The punishment issue is certainly debatable, but the hubris on display from the Perfect People in this thread is kind of amazing.

I imagine those who can't even conceive of this happening to them are likely the most vulnerable.

 

[ReadingRambo]

I imagine those who can't even conceive of this happening to them are likely the most vulnerable.

Absolutely.

 

[demigod]

Like I said, she has another child. Both very young. My daughter is 5 weeks old this Thursday and I can tell you, sleep deprivation has kicked in hardcore for me. I can't imagine how much worse it would be with 2. I feel like I forget huge parts of my morning on the way to work.

She thought the kid was with her husband, her husband thought the kid was with her....running on autopilot at that point.

I love it when the OP doesn't even bother to read his own article that he posted.

Yeah it sucks that the her baby is dead but still, she should be charged at least 2 years. My sister does this all the time coming over to my mom's house and leaving her kids in the car even just for a few minutes. I'd yell at her and go out and watch her kids for her.

 

[Flo_Evans]

Seriously. I physically cringed after reading what Flo wrote.

So you are OK with people so distracted to the point of killing their own child driving around on public roads?

According to the super article 60% of the parents get charged. I don't see why GAF is assuming nothing should happen to this lady.

 

[ReadingRambo]

I love it when the OP doesn't even bother to read his own article that he posted.

Yeah it sucks that the her baby is dead but still, she should be charged at least 2 years. My sister does this all the time coming over to my mom's house and leaving her kids in the car even just for a few minutes. I'd yell at her and go out and watch her kids for her.

Except that leaving your kids in the car for a few minutes is not the issue. It's thinking that you have dropped them off in a safe location when you haven't. There is no conscious decision being made to leave the child in a car unattended. READ THE ARTICLE.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

The punishment issue is certainly debatable, but the hubris on display from the Perfect People in this thread is kind of amazing.

I imagine those who can't even conceive of this happening to them are likely the most vulnerable.

I just don't see how this is any different from any other form of criminal negligence. Intent? I don't think you can prove most negligent parents intend to not give a shit about their kids starving, drowning, falling, etc.

 

[EYEL1NER]

the hubris on display from the Perfect People in this thread is kind of amazing.

I imagine those who can't even conceive of this happening to them are likely the most vulnerable.

Some of the people ITT realized or already knew that the human brain sucks. It can really fuck people over sometimes.
Obviously the ones who don't realize it aren't human.

I'm not saying they're aliens..........












But they're aliens.

 

[ReadingRambo]

So you are OK with people so distracted to the point of killing their own child driving around on public roads?

According to the super article 60% of the parents get charged. I don't see why GAF is assuming nothing should happen to this lady.

Kids aren't dying with the parents in the car driving around. Also, charged does not equal convicted. Sometimes I feel like people are purposefully obtuse.

 

[demigod]

Except that leaving your kids in the car for a few minutes is not the issue. It's thinking that you have dropped them off in a safe location when you haven't. There is no conscious decision being made to leave the child in a car unattended. READ THE ARTICLE.

I did read the article fool. If you have a kid, you ALWAYS have to check the back seat before leaving to see if you dropped off your kid at a daycare or not.

 

[Dunlop]

So you are OK with people so distracted to the point of killing their own child driving around on public roads?

What are your options?

My son for the first 2 years of his life kept me up so much at night I had to start taking the commuter train to work as I could no longer safely drive my car in rush hour traffic. Had the train not been an option, should I have quit my job? You need to play the hand you are dealt.

This woman will need major therapy to even hope to get her to being a productive mother/member of society again as well as constant support from her immediate family. I cannot fathom the grief she must be feeling

This was obviously not done on purpose, why destroy the entire family over it?

 

[ReadingRambo]

I did read the article fool. If you have a kid, you ALWAYS have to check the back seat before leaving to see if you dropped off your kid at a daycare or not.

No need for name calling. I know it's frustrating for you, as someone who has never forgotten anything ever, to have to explain child rearing to us mortals. For the purpose of discussion, however, could you pretend that you are imperfect and that your mind is capable of more trickery than you give it credit for?

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

What are your options?

My son for the first 2 years of his life kept me up so much at night I had to start taking the commuter train to work as I could no longer safely drive my car in rush hour traffic. Had the train not been an option, should I have quit my job? You need to play the hand you are dealt.

This woman will need major therapy to even hope to get her to being a productive mother/member of society again as well as constant support from her immediate family. I cannot fathom the grief she must be feeling

This was obviously not done on purpose, why destroy the entire family over it?

You can be charged with criminal endangerment for driving drunk with a minor.

If you're so tired that you can't keep your eyes on the road you shouldn't be driving, period. You were wise to switch to the commuter rail.

 

[echoshifting]

I just don't see how this is any different from any other form of criminal negligence. Intent? I don't think you can prove most negligent parents intend to not give a shit about their kids starving, drowning, falling, etc.

Do we charge people when their kids get into bleach and whatnot? That's not rhetorical...I don't know, I'm asking.

I mean, obviously there is some element of negligence here, because it's possible to take precautions to prevent this from happening. But it's not possible for a parent to be 100% on top of that stuff 100% of the time, so I'm really not sure. Frankly, though, were I in her shoes I would consider tangible punishment a mercy.

 

[Flo_Evans]

What are your options?

My son for the first 2 years of his life kept me up so much at night I had to start taking the commuter train to work as I could no longer safely drive my car in rush hour traffic. Had the train not been an option, should I have quit my job? You need to play the hand you are dealt.

This woman will need major therapy to even hope to get her to being a productive mother/member of society again as well as constant support from her immediate family. I cannot fathom the grief she must be feeling

This was obviously not done on purpose, why destroy the entire family over it?

Bravo for recognizing you where becoming dangerous and doing something about it.

This is not something that can happen to anyone, I don't get why some people keep saying that. Every case in the article is someone severely distracted and sleep deprived.

If you are severely distracted and sleep deprived, you SHOULD NOT BE DRIVING AROUND IN A CAR WITH A BABY. This is pretty simple.

GAF throws a shit fit whenever someone is drunk and drives, I really don't see any difference between drunk driving and driving like a zombie.

 

[demigod]

No need for name calling. I know it's frustrating for you, as someone who has never forgotten anything ever, to have to explain child rearing to us mortals. For the purpose of discussion, however, could you pretend that you are imperfect and that your mind is capable of more trickery than you give it credit for?

Maybe next time you can use your brain and figure out how i knew the OP didn't read his article. Your mind playing tricks on you is just a bs excuse. It's not hard to look in the back of the car before leaving it.

 

[poppabk]

I can understand how this could happen, I have a 10 month old and with a sleeping baby and a rear facing car seat it would not be apparent at all that a baby was in the backseat. Not realizing you hadn't dropped them off at daycare would be a little harder, but with sleep deprivation and a hectic schedule it is not inconceivable. The same way that it is conceivable that someone can mix up the gas and break pedals for example. Still I think this woman should be charged with negligence of some order, leave it to a jury to decide if she should be punished or forced to some kind of treatment/education program.

 

[Dunlop]

forced to some kind of treatment/education program.

That I think should be forced on her, she will need professional help to have any hope of coping with this.

 

[Toddler]

As a father (who drops his 1 year old off at daycare every day) fuck this lady.

a) if you are that stressed and tired don't fucking drive your 2 ton death machine around and endager everyone else.

b) there is NO way I could see this happening to me. No way.

Agreed 110%.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Agreed 110%.

I am leaning more towards this sentiment than "Oh just human weakness". Because I mean no shit. As exhausted as I can get I look inside my empty car when I park it JUST to make sure my fucking doors are locked. I'm not running for my life. I'm not in a panic. I'm just parking my car.

 

[Toddler]

I am leaning more towards this sentiment than "Oh just human weakness". Because I mean no shit. As exhausted as I can get I look inside my empty car when I park it JUST to make sure my fucking doors are locked. I'm not running for my life. I'm not in a panic. I'm just parking my car.

These "human weakness" dudes are just trolling.

LOL at anyone agreeing this planet's dominant species lacks the inherent paternal instincts that even a chicken has.

 

[ScientificNinja]

To the people who think there is nothing for the criminal justice system to deter because all she made was an honest mistake: aren't you seeing the circularity of your logic? The point is to deter people from making such mistakes in future!

The woman is not the first parent to have a lapse in judgement that results in the death of her child, nor will she be the last. The criminal justice system demands people be reminded to be vigilant against such mistakes, and my suggestion of probation or a suspended sentence takes into consideration that the mother in this case has already suffered a lot. So sue me if you think there are more compassionate alternatives: I'm not a judge, so I don't know what other options are available; but to me, doing nothing whatsoever sends the wrong message.

 

[ReadingRambo]

To the people who think there is nothing for the criminal justice system to deter because all she made was an honest mistake: aren't you seeing the circularity of your logic? The point is to deter people from making such mistakes in future!

The woman is not the first parent to have a lapse in judgement that results in the death of her child, nor will she be the last. The criminal justice system demands people be reminded to be vigilant against such mistakes, and my suggestion of probation or a suspended sentence takes into consideration that the mother in this case has already suffered a lot. So sue me if you think there are more compassionate alternatives: I'm not a judge, so I don't know what other options are available; but to me, doing nothing whatsoever sends the wrong message.

How is it that your mind doesn't register the loss of a child as punishment? The mistake (woefully inadequate word for this) was not intentional. They lost something that cannot be replaced. A jail sentence or community service isn't going to dissuade others from killing the most precious thing in their lives because the intent isn't there in the first place.

 

[Ferrio]

To the people who think there is nothing for the criminal justice system to deter because all she made was an honest mistake: aren't you seeing the circularity of your logic? The point is to deter people from making such mistakes in future!

How do you deter someone from doing something she didn't even realize she was doing?

 

[Loofy]

Leaving your kid in the car all day. It could happen to anyone man, like losing your keys. One time I accidentally left the milk in the trunk, mustve slipped my mind when I was taking out groceries. It was terrible.

 

[ReadingRambo]

Leaving your kid in the car all day. It could happen to anyone man, like losing your keys. One time I accidentally left the milk in the trunk, mustve slipped my mind when I was taking out groceries. It was terrible.

I know you're trying to be funny but there is science behind it and very intelligent and organized people have suffered through similar tragedies.

 

[Flo_Evans]

I know you're trying to be funny but there is science behind it and very intelligent and organized people have suffered through similar tragedies.

How is this any kind of excuse?

Oh, intelligent people have done it so it must be ok? Do you apply this to other crimes as well?

 

[EYEL1NER]

How is this any kind of excuse?

Oh, intelligent people have done it so it must be ok? Do you apply this to other crimes as well?

Because he totally said that it is okay for this to happen.
Nice one.

 

[SickBoy]

To the people who think there is nothing for the criminal justice system to deter because all she made was an honest mistake: aren't you seeing the circularity of your logic? The point is to deter people from making such mistakes in future!

The woman is not the first parent to have a lapse in judgement that results in the death of her child, nor will she be the last. The criminal justice system demands people be reminded to be vigilant against such mistakes, and my suggestion of probation or a suspended sentence takes into consideration that the mother in this case has already suffered a lot. So sue me if you think there are more compassionate alternatives: I'm not a judge, so I don't know what other options are available; but to me, doing nothing whatsoever sends the wrong message.

I'm pretty sure the deterrent for mistakes such as these is "I don't want to kill my child."

I don't see why charges would be pressed when it seems, at least from the WP article, that a jury is unlikely to convict in cases where parents are charged (excepting cases where police investigations offer up some evidence that there are issues in the family.. the story in the OP mentions an eight-week investigation by cops... maybe they'll uncover something). Otherwise, the only thing you're doing by pursuing a case is costing the defendant and the legal system money and time.

 

[ReadingRambo]

How is this any kind of excuse?

Oh, intelligent people have done it so it must be ok? Do you apply this to other crimes as well?

Obviously not. And the jury is very much out on whether this is a crime at all. Many go uncharged and many of the %60 that are charged are not convicted of anything. Again, this isn't parents leaving their kids in the car on purpose to go run errands. That is criminal negligence. These are cases (631 since 1991) where the parent failed to drop their child off at daycare (or other safe location) and thought they had done so. When that happens the mind goes, "ok well that's taken care of, now onto the rest of the day". There is no ill intent. These are honest mistakes that can happen to anyone and that was the point I was trying to make.

It isn't poor, trashy, dumb, negligent parents that make this mistake. It happens to people of all walks of life and there is no predicting factor. It's a horrible tragedy in any case and deserves more consideration than "oh that'll never happen to me because I always look in my back seat".

 

[Nether!]

"This is a case of pure evil negligence of the worse kind . . . He deserves the death sentence."

"I wonder if this was his way of telling his wife that he didn't really want a kid."

"He was too busy chasing after real estate commissions. This shows how morally corrupt people in real estate-related professions are."

These were readers' online comments to The Washington Post news article of July 10, 2008, reporting the circumstances of the death of Miles Harrison's son. These comments were typical of many others, and they are typical of what happens again and again, year after year in community after community, when these cases arise. A substantial proportion of the public reacts not merely with anger, but with frothing vitriol.

Ed Hickling believes he knows why. Hickling is a clinical psychologist from Albany, N.Y., who has studied the effects of fatal auto accidents on the drivers who survive them. He says these people are often judged with disproportionate harshness by the public, even when it was clearly an accident, and even when it was indisputably not their fault.

Humans, Hickling said, have a fundamental need to create and maintain a narrative for their lives in which the universe is not implacable and heartless, that terrible things do not happen at random, and that catastrophe can be avoided if you are vigilant and responsible.

In hyperthermia cases, he believes, the parents are demonized for much the same reasons. "We are vulnerable, but we don't want to be reminded of that. We want to believe that the world is understandable and controllable and unthreatening, that if we follow the rules, we'll be okay. So, when this kind of thing happens to other people, we need to put them in a different category from us. We don't want to resemble them, and the fact that we might is too terrifying to deal with. So, they have to be monsters."

Please read this excellent article, already posted several times.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/27/AR2009022701549.html

I understand it's uncomfortable to have your opinion confronted with information, especially when you need to use the effort to read a long form article, but it is worth your time if you feel the need to comment on this death.

 

[Lord Ghirahim]

I'm pretty sure the deterrent for mistakes such as these is "I don't want to kill my child."

I personally know four people who wouldn't be deterred by that.

 

[Flo_Evans]

Obviously not. And the jury is very much out on whether this is a crime at all. Many go uncharged and many of the %60 that are charged are not convicted of anything. Again, this isn't parents leaving their kids in the car on purpose to go run errands. That is criminal negligence. These are cases (631 since 1991) where the parent failed to drop their child off at daycare (or other safe location) and thought they had done so. When that happens the mind goes, "ok well that's taken care of, now onto the rest of the day". There is no ill intent. These are honest mistakes that can happen to anyone and that was the point I was trying to make.

It isn't poor, trashy, dumb, negligent parents that make this mistake. It happens to people of all walks of life and there is no predicting factor. It's a horrible tragedy in any case and deserves more consideration than "oh that'll never happen to me because I always look in my back seat".

The predicting factor is a distracted stressed parent...

Did you read the article you keep referencing? The people this happens to where talking on their cell phone, worried about work, stressed out and tired.

I don't necessarily think that she should get jail time, IDK what exactly should happen to her. I don't think though that you can write this off as a random chance and absolve her of all responsibility as some seem to want to do.

 

[ScientificNinja]

How do you deter someone from doing something she didn't even realize she was doing?

That's the point of vigilance...

 

[Marty Chinn]

The predicting factor is a distracted stressed parent...

Did you read the article you keep referencing? The people this happens to where talking on their cell phone, worried about work, stressed out and tired.

I don't necessarily think that she should get jail time, IDK what exactly should happen to her. I don't think though that you can write this off as a random chance and absolve her of all responsibility as some seem to want to do.

Because we live in a perfect world where we can all live stress free or don't have days where things go off schedule that can disrupt our normal flow. I mean after all, kids are always 100% predictable and on schedule, right?

 

[ReadingRambo]

The predicting factor is a distracted stressed parent...

Did you read the article you keep referencing? The people this happens to where talking on their cell phone, worried about work, stressed out and tired.

I don't necessarily think that she should get jail time, IDK what exactly should happen to her. I don't think though that you can write this off as a random chance and absolve her of all responsibility as some seem to want to do.

No clearly the article says there is no link. Some were distracted, others had a routine that was changed slightly by circumstance.

Scientifically it is random right now. Not enough is known about the phenomenon. Just because you want there to be a narrative, a reason for it happening, doesn't mean there is or ever will be one. No parent would ever be absolved of the guilt of being responsible for their child's death. The only "sentence" that wouldn't be an abhorrent display of inhumanity would be psychiatric counseling.

 

[SickBoy]

...absolve her of all responsibility as some seem to want to do.

I don't think that's what people want to do. I think most people who are on the "charges are pointless" side believe parents in this position are paying a bigger price than the state could impose.

 

[Flo_Evans]

No clearly the article says there is no link. Some were distracted, others had a routine that was changed slightly by circumstance.

Scientifically it is random right now. Not enough is known about the phenomenon. Just because you want there to be a narrative, a reason for it happening, doesn't mean there is or ever will be one. No parent would ever be absolved of the guilt of being responsible for their child's death. The only "sentence" that wouldn't be an abhorrent display of inhumanity would be psychiatric counseling.

?

I thought she wasn't responsible? Is it a random act of god is it her fault?

 

[Marty Chinn]

?

I thought she wasn't responsible? Is it a random act of god is it her fault?

She'll blame herself and feel she is responsible even though she might not be.

 

[daw840]

I love it when the OP doesn't even bother to read his own article that he posted.

Yeah it sucks that the her baby is dead but still, she should be charged at least 2 years. My sister does this all the time coming over to my mom's house and leaving her kids in the car even just for a few minutes. I'd yell at her and go out and watch her kids for her.

I did read the article fool. If you have a kid, you ALWAYS have to check the back seat before leaving to see if you dropped off your kid at a daycare or not.

Maybe next time you can use your brain and figure out how i knew the OP didn't read his article. Your mind playing tricks on you is just a bs excuse. It's not hard to look in the back of the car before leaving it.

Christ you are a tool. Not only have I read the article. I've heard about it on the news every day since it happened, I've heard testimonies from people who knew her, and testimonies from experts on the subject.

Maybe I phrased that wrong. I wasn't necessarily pointing to this exact situation but others like it when that is the common cause of this. That wasn't even the point of that post.

 

[ReadingRambo]

?

I thought she wasn't responsible? Is it a random act of god is it her fault?

Responsibility and intent are not the same thing. The child was in her care when it died.

I'm done with you. Nothing personal but you are just being combative at this point, hanging on every word in the hopes that you find something on which to hang your hat and prove yourself right.

 

[789shadow]

Know who else probably said "I'd never leave my kid in the car all day?" Every person who did.

 

[Flo_Evans]

Responsibility and intent are not the same thing. The child was in her care when it died.

I'm done with you. Nothing personal but you are just being combative at this point, hanging on every word in the hopes that you find something on which to hang your hat and prove yourself right.

You can still be charged with manslaughter if your NEGLIGENCE leads to someone elses death. You do not have to have intent.

 

[Keylime]

Minimally everyone agrees that it was the mother who was directly responsible for the kid's death, right? We can at least all agree that it's her fault?

Not trying to be petty, but it reads like a lot of people are acting like she was taken over by aliens and forced to leave her kid in there against her will and there was nothing she could do to prevent it.

It says right in the OP various methods that you can do to keep this from happening to you (the bear thing, the item thing)...which directly implies that with greater care, this can be avoided.

It's the mother's fault...AND it was an accident...AND it could have been avoided with better care.

I don't see how any of those points are up for debate.

 

[ReadingRambo]

The better care that people actually advocate for this are sensors in rear car seats. Not "pay better attention, idiot". Just so we're on the same page.

 

[KernelPanic]

As a father of an 8 month old, this is very very distressing to read.

 

[789shadow]

Minimally everyone agrees that it was the mother who was directly responsible for the kid's death, right? We can at least all agree that it's her fault?

Not trying to be petty, but it reads like a lot of people are acting like she was taken over by aliens and forced to leave her kid in there against her will and there was nothing she could do to prevent it.

It says right in the OP various methods that you can do to keep this from happening to you (the bear thing, the item thing)...which directly implies that with greater care, this can be avoided.

It's the mother's fault...AND it was an accident...AND it could have been avoided with better care.

I don't see how any of those points are up for debate.

A big huge NOPE on all of these.