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[Mmmkay]

Full quote for the squeamish:

Of course, the point is moot if the nine-gigabyte capacity of standard DVDs is never challenged (it's worth noting that Xbox's massive Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas clocked in at under 3GB and 360's upcoming behemoth Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivioin is set to weigh in at around 5GB). Assuming it is, however - From Software claims its upcoming Japanese RPG eNCHANT arM might not fit on even two DVDs - Microsoft should simply use the PC games market as a blueprint.

 

[Oxymoron]

Most if not all PS3 games are going to be on DVD as well. Blu Ray is only there for movie playback.

I think this is the kind of statement you'd have to back up with a source.

 

[DarienA]

Most if not all PS3 games are going to be on DVD as well. Blu Ray is only there for movie playback.

What?!?!?!? Where did you get this from?

 

[Wario64]

I think this is the kind of statement you'd have to back up with a source.

He's referring to some stupid rumor posted on gamerandy.com

 

[Vark]

Now, when Blu-Ray discs hit the market and developers can put a lot more textures on those discs

Just having more space on the disc doesn't mean you get to use more textures. There are many other factors involved.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Most if not all PS3 games are going to be on DVD as well. Blu Ray is only there for movie playback.

Keep telling yourself that .

 

[Vark]

He's referring to some stupid rumor posted on gamerandy.com

Well its sort of logical if you think about it. I don't know all that much about the PS3's transport but if it can read DVD's faster than Blu-Ray discs (likely) and your game doesn't take up more than 9 gigs (most) and the medium is cheaper to press (which it is) then why wouldn't you want to print a faster loading cheaper version?

Kinda of like how most PS2 games come on single layer dvds even though the system supports DL ones.

 

[Jerkface]

Half-Life 2 has some pretty impressive texturing and it can easily fit on a single DVD. This news is no surprise to me.

Now, when Blu-Ray discs hit the market and developers can put a lot more textures on those discs, then there will be some space issues, especially for multi-platform games. If 3 years from now, there is still no multi-DVD game for X360, I will be surprised.

Having more textures to the tune of requiring a Blu-Ray disc would probably bankrupt most studios.

 

[SolidSnakex]

What?!?!?!? Where did you get this from?

It didn't come frlom Sony, that's for sure. At CES Kaz said he believes BR's will follow a similar direction on the PS3 as DVD's did on the PS2. He mentioned that in the first year of the PS2, 74% of games were CD based, now 95% of games are DVD.

 

[jedimike]

It didn't come frlom Sony, that's for sure. At CES Kaz said he believes BR's will follow a similar direction on the PS3 as DVD's did on the PS3. He mentioned that in the first year of the PS2, 74% of games were CD based, now 95% of games are DVD.

I do have to admit that 5 years is a very long time to be stuck with DVD. Although it works just fine for the near future, who knows how much devs will need years down the road.

 

[hadareud]

It didn't come frlom Sony, that's for sure. At CES Kaz said he believes BR's will follow a similar direction on the PS3 as DVD's did on the PS2. He mentioned that in the first year of the PS2, 74% of games were CD based, now 95% of games are DVD.

Yeah, but what does he know.

 

[Goreomedy]

I think this is the kind of statement you'd have to back up with a source.

Be careful now. You're inviting Doom to post a picture of his ass.

 

[Last Hope]

This may not be as bad as you think. Morrowind had little to no voice in it and resulted in a small image size. It may be surprising but for a huge game like it was, it was 9xx megabytes. If Oblivion does not have much voice in it and a lot of the artwork repeats like ikt did in Morrowind, I'd be surprised if the image was even the size of the DVD9 disk.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Yeah, but what does he know.

*shrugs* Mark Rein talked about it too before them. Talking about how he didn't know how they were going to pack some of their later games onto a DVD9 (going as far as saying they'll be using most of the BR's space).

 

[Cpl_Cain]

This may not be as bad as you think. Morrowind had little to no voice in it and resulted in a small image size. It may be surprising but for a huge game like it was, it was 9xx megabytes. If Oblivion does not have much voice in it and a lot of the artwork repeats like ikt did in Morrowind, I'd be surprised if the image was even the size of the DVD9 disk.

Oblivion has over 50 hours of voice work. Every piece of dialogue in the game is voice acted.

 

[ToxicAdam]

Is she part giraffe?

This game needs more EA Trax! use up all that space!

 

[Last Hope]

Oblivion has over 50 hours of voice work. Every piece of dialogue in the game is voice acted.

Well, we may be in some trouble then. Low bit rate does not sound good.

I am glad to hear that the game has voice work. Too few of these games have it. I always want to know what the correct pronounciation of the regions in these games are but since there is usually no voice work, it is up to interpretation. If someone asks me for help, there is no way I can even tell them where to go since I have no idea how to pronounce some of the names.

 

[shpankey]

doh, nm

 

[monkeymagic]

not to be bumping old shit... but the March OXM said that not only will it be on one DVD, but it only fills 5GB.

Only 5GB?

5/7.2 = ~ 70%

Less than 3 months after launch and we're already hitting 70% of the disc capacity.

I suppose it may suffice if MS decides to again cut short the lifetime of its console to 3 years.

 

[Jerkface]

Only 5GB?

5/7.2 = ~ 70%

Less than 3 months after launch and we're already hitting 70% of the disc capacity.

I suppose it may suffice if MS decides to again cut short the lifetime of its console to 3 years.

:lol

Yeah most games are going to be bigger than Oblivion

 

[Sho Nuff]

I really hate you, GAF.

 

[shpankey]

I think monkeymagic has to be the new king of hating all things Xbox now of GAF. :lol

 

[SolidSnakex]

:lol

Yeah most games are going to be bigger than Oblivion

Alot of current gen games were bigger than this gens Elder Scrolls, so why can't the same apply for next gen games?

 

[mrklaw]

somebody do the math please?


What were the sizes of launch PSone vs late PSone games? Then early PS2 Vs late PS2. Also early Xbox and late Xbox. From that we might be able to extrapolate some kind of idea of space required for the next gen.

memory has been scaling uniformly, so that shouldn't affect things. (2MB -> 32MB -> 512MB)

 

[Matlock]

It didn't come frlom Sony, that's for sure. At CES Kaz said he believes BR's will follow a similar direction on the PS3 as DVD's did on the PS2. He mentioned that in the first year of the PS2, 74% of games were CD based, now 95% of games are DVD.

What CES was this from, because I've got the transcript of his speech right here.

PlayStation

Now I want to share a preview of the world not as it is, but as it will be. Because in the future, Sony devices will achieve levels of speed, interoperability and functionality that today one can only imagine.

HOWARD: Please welcome to the stage, the President and CEO of Sony Computer Entertainment America, Kaz Hirai.

KAZ: Hi Howard.

HOWARD: Good to see you. Before we get down to the business at hand, perhaps you can tell us a little bit about how PlayStation performed during the festive season.

KAZ: Absolutely, Howard. I am pleased to report that PlayStation products once again topped consumers' gift lists for the holiday season. While we are still in the process of analyzing holiday sales results, PlayStation® 2 experienced a 10.5 percent gain year-over-year, and it was the only platform in the videogame industry with positive growth. Cumulatively, we have shipped more than 100 million PlayStation 2 units worldwide and counting, which is an industry record. The only other home console platform to achieve this milestone is the original PlayStation, but with PlayStation 2 we hit the 100 million mark in half the time. In the U.S. alone a PlayStation 2 can be found in more than one out of every three households.

HOWARD: And then there is my favorite little machine, the PSP®...

KAZ: Exactly. PSP is such a hot product we had to increase production to try to keep up with demand. Oh, and by the way, Howard, not only did PlayStation 2 outsell Microsoft's new Xbox 360 this holiday season, but so did the PSP.

All in all, 2005 was a great year for PlayStation. And the future looks even brighter.

HOWARD: As we are here talking about how Sony is strategically positioned to entertain the future with breakthrough products and compelling content, what about the next generation of games?

KAZ: At Sony Computer Entertainment, we know that the next generation of interactive entertainment doesn't really start until we launch it, and in 2006 we are ready to introduce the future with PLAYSTATION 3.

HOWARD: Yes, let's talk about why PLAYSTATION 3 is worth waiting for...

KAZ: PLAYSTATION 3 will be the third home console platform we introduce into the market. And once again it is destined for great success and, of course, a very long lifecycle.

At the heart of PLAYSTATION 3 is the Cell processor. Along with our partners IBM and Toshiba we have invested billions of dollars and hundreds of thousands of man-hours in creating the Cell processor. It is so powerful that it rivals super computers, but is uniquely designed to really support broadband-based consumer applications and HD video streams. Cell is actually eight processors on a single chip, seven of which will be active for the PLAYSTATION 3.

HOWARD: And, of course, speaking of the Cell processor, with all its enormous power, flexibility and potential, the application is not going to be limited to empowering just PLAYSTATION 3, correct?

KAZ: That's correct. And as a matter of fact, in order to harness the huge potential of Cell processor, Sony has established an organization that is specifically tasked with developing Cell-based products other than PLAYSTATION 3 and also applications in that field, as well.

HOWARD: Okay then, Kaz. Let's cut to the chase. What about content for the PLAYSTATION 3?

KAZ: The introduction of any new platform bearing the PlayStation name has been synonymous with presenting revolutionary ways in which creators create and consumers enjoy content. PLAYSTATION 3 is no exception. In addition to the Cell processor, we have adopted Blu-ray as our storage medium.

Another first brought by PlayStation is back-catalog compatibility. When we first introduced PlayStation 2 in 2000 it supported many formats: PlayStation games, PlayStation 2 games, audio CDs and, of course, DVD video playback. But with PLAYSTATION 3, we are taking this to the next level. Not only will PLAYSTATION 3 support Blu-ray video and PLAYSTATION 3 games but, of course, all of the other formats I just mentioned. With PLAYSTATION 3, users can access tens of thousands of assets right out of the box, not to mention digitally distributed content. We respect and appreciate the investment that our customers have made and will continue to make in in-home entertainment, which in some cases can add up to hundreds, perhaps even thousands, of dollars. Only consumer-centric companies like Sony, one with such a long history in consumer electronics and also entertainment, can deliver a forward-thinking product like PLAYSTATION 3.

HOWARD: From the looks of things, Kaz, PLAYSTATION 3 will be certainly the most powerful computer entertainment system ever to hit the market.

KAZ: Absolutely, Howard. But as we all know, hardware alone cannot provide entertainment without compelling content. And in the gaming world, killer applications, titles that give consumers new, exciting experiences never before encountered, drive market penetration of hardware in the market. The game development community worldwide has been hard at work creating new experiences that will really exceed consumer expectations. In fact, we have already distributed more than four thousand PLAYSTATION 3 development kits to partners around the globe. We would like to share with you a brief visual taste of the fruits of their labor.

HOWARD: Let's take a look. If that doesn't tease you all, nothing will. PLAYSTATION 3 is one of the key pillars of Sony's growth strategy for 2006 and beyond, and now all of this just reconfirms why everyone is so excited about this product. Not just for Sony and its partners, but for consumers around the world. Thank you, Kaz. Go get `em.

KAZ: Thank you, Howard.

HOWARD: In our time together here this morning, you have seen the world through Sony's eyes. It's a vision that combines content and technology to create a vibrant tapestry of the future. Indeed, everywhere you see Sony - in High Definition, Digital Cinema, Personal Entertainment, PlayStation - you see the benefits of the marriage of compelling content with innovative technology.

2005 could have been called the year of the digital citizen, a citizen armed to the teeth with broadband gadgets that record, store and share content, sometimes legally, sometimes illegally. The power of PS3's cell chip will expand these opportunities beyond current imagination. In the coming years, the digital citizen is poised to become a creator, an artist, perhaps as gifted as those you have already seen on stage today. Then we'll experience another kind of convergence, as our newly empowered digital citizenry all over the globe will in turn have to grapple with the same sticky questions such as who owns what, and who has the right to share content. These are questions that none of us can afford to duck. Content and technology are strange bedfellows. We are joined together. Sometimes we misunderstand each other. But isn't that after all the definition of marriage?

At Sony, we are united in our commitment to creating the very best consumer experience with dazzling and groundbreaking products. This is who and what we are.

Thank you all very much for your attention.

That part was bolded just because it's hilariously vague.

 

[Cpl_Cain]

Alot of current gen games were bigger than this gens Elder Scrolls, so why can't the same apply for next gen games?

Previous Elder Scrolls games didn't have 50 hours of spoken dialogue.

Oblivion has everything - huge game world, Havok physics, Radiant AI, massive number of dungeons - objects - stats - characters & character items... on and on and on... I really can't imagine many games having more content than Oblivion. I mean they have a massive amount of content and still have room for a half hour or more of HD cinematics if they wanted them.

 

[Mmmkay]

What CES was this from, because I've got the transcript of his speech right here.

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/679/679522p1.html

Sony does expect game developers to use the format. Referring to the PlayStation 2, Hirai commented: "During the first year, CD-ROM was used 74% of the time while DVD-ROM was used 26%. However, five years later, CD-ROM was at 5% while DVD-ROM had become 95%." Sony expects a similar expansion for the use of BD-ROM in games.

Sounds like it was from a post keynote Q&A session.

 

[jamesinclair]

Only 5GB?

5/7.2 = ~ 70%

Less than 3 months after launch and we're already hitting 70% of the disc capacity.

I suppose it may suffice if MS decides to again cut short the lifetime of its console to 3 years.

N64 worked for 5 years with a max of 64MB when the competition had 750MB

GC worked for 5 years with only 1.5GB, whent he competition had 9GB

Xbox 360 and Revo will be fine with 9GB

 

[sirris]

N64 worked for 5 years with a max of 64MB when the competition had 750MB

GC worked for 5 years with only 1.5GB, whent he competition had 9GB

Xbox 360 and Revo will be fine with 9GB

QFT

 

[LAMBO]

NO ONE IS GOING TO REALLY PUSH DVD STORAGE CAPACITY UNTIL BLUE RAY/HD DVD IS OUT. Devs will start thinking more about expanding their games when the tech is actually out. I haven't heard many devs complaining about blue ray being too big.

I don't expect blue-ray filling games for a good year or two. I think we'll see some massive game compilations as the first blue ray fillers(imagine if say namco or sega realesed a disc with every psx or ps2 game they made).

I think blue ray will bring alot of HD FMV to gameplay. Imagine if the sky in oblivion was a high definaition recording of the actual sky. Something like that would pretty amazing.

 

[sprsk]

QFT

Except the textures on n64 games were shit (and had no fmvs), and gc games had quite a few 2 discers.

 

[dark10x]

N64 worked for 5 years with a max of 64MB when the competition had 750MB

GC worked for 5 years with only 1.5GB, whent he competition had 9GB

Xbox 360 and Revo will be fine with 9GB

The N64 also suffered greatly as a result of this, as the limitations resulted in some serious audio/visual cutbacks. This was EXTREMELY serious and held back the machine.

The GC also suffered (to a lesser degree) as many games ended up featuring heavily compressed video and audio components.

I don't believe those elements had much to do with their retail performance (though, N64 really may have fared quite a bit better with more storage space), but it was still a concern for gamers.

With the next generation being labeled as "the HD era", heavily compressed assets will become even more problematic. I'm sure they'll be just fine with the DVD9 discs, but you can be we'll be seeing multi-disc games (not a big deal, generally speaking) and lower quality assets in various 360 games as a result. Some folks may not care about this, of course, but those that do will be disappointed sometimes.

 

[IJoel]

Only 5GB?

5/7.2 = ~ 70%

Less than 3 months after launch and we're already hitting 70% of the disc capacity.

I suppose it may suffice if MS decides to again cut short the lifetime of its console to 3 years.

Max Payne for Xbox was released closer to Xbox's launch date (compared to when Oblivion will be released relative to Xbox 360's launch date) and is 5.8GB in size, AFAIK.

This is really a game to game situation and sweeping generalizations don't apply. There will be 2 disc games, though the majority will be in 1 disc.

 

[DonasaurusRex]

Ironically, one of the few PC games that would require in the region of 8gbs would be FFXI and its expansions... with its PS2 level textures.

:lol :lol :lol

 

[Dr_Cogent]

Well its sort of logical if you think about it. I don't know all that much about the PS3's transport but if it can read DVD's faster than Blu-Ray discs (likely) and your game doesn't take up more than 9 gigs (most) and the medium is cheaper to press (which it is) then why wouldn't you want to print a faster loading cheaper version?

Exactly. Manufacturer's aren't just going to put everything on Blu-Ray unless it makes sense to. If a game fits on a regular DVD, you can bet your ass it will be shipped on one. I am confident Blu-Ray discs are more expensive than standard dual layer DVDs.

 

[Professor K]

So not only is it on one DVD, but it doesn't even fill the DVD??? :lol

Please don't take this raft away from the 360 haters. I rather enjoyed their frothing at the mouth about how Grand Theft Auto won't come out for the 360 because it would need to be multi-disc...

 

[Shompola]

Only 5GB?

5/7.2 = ~ 70%

Less than 3 months after launch and we're already hitting 70% of the disc capacity.

I suppose it may suffice if MS decides to again cut short the lifetime of its console to 3 years.

I bet the first FF game for PS3 will fill up maybe over 70% of the Blu-Ray media.. and we know with what. I guess Blu-Ray is insufficient aswell right? Retard.

 

[trmas]

Compressed like a son of a bitch. Wonder how bad load times will be for those with the tard pack? Thank God I have the hard drive.

 

[Ponn]

I bet the first FF game for PS3 will fill up maybe over 70% of the Blu-Ray media.. and we know with what. I guess Blu-Ray is insufficient aswell right? Retard.

So, would that FF game fit on a DVD then?

 

[Shompola]

Compressed like a son of a bitch. Wonder how bad load times will be for those with the tard pack? Thank God I have the hard drive.

Do you have a link that backs up the compressed like a SOB statement?

Ponn, you make no sense.... reformulate what you said.

 

[Ponn]

Do you have a link that backs up the compressed like a SOB statement?

Ponn, you make no sense.... reformulate what you said.

You know exactly what it means, don't play coy. In an attempt to make Monkeymagic's statement look faulty you made sticking with DVD for storage look even worse. If 70% of Blu-ray were insufficient where would that put DVD?

 

[monkeymagic]

Xbox 360 and Revo will be fine with 9GB

Sorry X360 DVD-ROM is not 9GB.

Rev should be more than OK with 9GB though since all assets will be in SD resolutions.

 

[trmas]

Read it somewhere - will look for the link. Even the developers said loading times will be significantly longer without the harddrive.

 

[conker]

50 hours of voice acting?
OH NO!

Why, that could take up almost 3 gigabytes if you old encoding techniques like vbr mp3 @ 128 kbps average!
Then you'd only have over 4 gigabytes left for the game. ZOMG TEXTURES!

Are all of you retarded?
Or do you just feel the need to troll?

Capacity is not an issue - not even if you had 100 hours of dialog.

An averavge bitrate of 64 kbps would be MORE than fine if they used an mpeg4 (aac) compression scheme. It would be even better if they used he-aac, since the hardware can certainly handle it. Yes, a codec can be implemented in the game code.

Before you bitch about 64 kbps, this is SPEECH, not a fucking orchestra. It is not 5.1 channels of surround voice acting. It is probably 2 channels, possibly 1 channel. it does not need tons of data, or even a high sample frequency. No, you will not hear the difference. Yes, there will be who will CLAIM they can hear the differemce, no matter what.

The issue is not capacity. A DVD-9 (which holds slightly less than 8 (EIGHT) GB) should be more than enough for any game in the next few years without superfluous FMV. A much bigger issue is load times and data access times. The fact that some 360s don't have a hard drive is a much bigger problem than the fact that none of them have HD-DVD drives.

But I guess since GAF hates HD-DVD so much, there's going extra love for Blu-Ray, which means hate for everything else. Nice.

 

[Shompola]

I didnt talk about DVD at all dont assume things or it makes you just look stupid as it did in this case. But making statements that X game takes up 70% of a medium does not automatically make the medium insufficient hence the Final Fantasy example I made.

 

[BlueTsunami]

But making statements that X game takes up 70% of a medium does not automatically make the medium insufficient hence the Final Fantasy example I made.

Do you think that every game from now up till say 3 years will not start to use more and more space? Or do you think Oblivion is the ceiling for what every next gen game will take up (as far as disk capacity)?

 

[jedimike]

Sorry X360 DVD-ROM is not 9GB.

Rev should be more than OK with 9GB though since all assets will be in SD resolutions.

I thought Revolution only had a 4.7GB capacity? I'll see if I can find the link.

 

[monkeymagic]

I bet the first FF game for PS3 will fill up maybe over 70% of the Blu-Ray media.. and we know with what. I guess Blu-Ray is insufficient aswell right?

70% of single layer Blu-Ray = 17.5GB

70% of dual layer Blu-Ray = 35 GB

But what does this have to do with Blu-Ray - this thread is about 7.2GB DVD-ROM being inadequate for next gen HD gaming over the next 5 years.

 

[Cpl_Cain]

I'd be far more worried about the load times with BluRay since the transfer rate is much slower than 12x DVD. I also haven't heard anything about Sony shipping with a standard hard drive, so that isn't going to help either.

 

[Fishie flop oog]

Sorry X360 DVD-ROM is not 9GB.

Rev should be more than OK with 9GB though since all assets will be in SD resolutions.

When will you guys learn that the resolution a texture is stored at has no bearing to the resolution said game runs at.
I can run PC games in full detail at low res, guess what it doesnt make the textures shrink in size.