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Toyota dealers gave minorities higher interest rate loans. Not an uncommon practice.
- Thread starter Joe
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Jesus Fucking Christ. You have their credit score and history right there in front of you. Takes a special kind of asshole to charge more just because of skin color when you have no goddamned reason too.
GTFOH the customer holds zero fault in this situation. If that's all they are being offered the problem is 100% with the people discriminating and the company the discriminating person works under for not having enough oversight to make sure that shit isn't happening under their roof.
GTFOH the customer holds zero fault in this situation. If that's all they are being offered the problem is 100% with the people discriminating and the company the discriminating person works under for not having enough oversight to make sure that shit isn't happening under their roof.
Zoe
Member
It's likely a subconscious thing since it's completely discretionary.
Finance manager gets bonuses for adding extra crap to your purchase.
people need to shop around and get various offers. so many people end up walking into dealer and get talked into a loan they think is a good deal.
BoboBrazil
Member
How do you think the finance manager makes money in the dealership? By making profit on backend products and making markup on the rate. This happens across the board regardless of color. End of the day the customer should be more educated when they go to the dealer with their own financing or have enough control to walk out without signing the paperwork.
Septimus Prime
Member
I've never seen this personally, but that's why it's important to finalize the price first, and only then talk about financing options. If the dealer then tries to raise the price or use sketchy math, then it's time to leave.
The dealer will try to ask you what you want to put down and what you want to pay monthly. Always insist that you'll talk about that later and bring the subject back to the car's price. Never mention payments or anything until that's completely settled.
Aye, you can always bounce to another dealer too.
It's a lot of legwork, but I mean you're buying a car so...
Chie Satonaka
Member
I thought maybe, just maybe, we could get through more than one page without someone saying it's not about race.
...Why on earth would I have thought that?
In any event, this isn't new, and not unique to car dealers.
Exactly this. This is one of the things Ta'nehisi Coates talks about regularly. Interestingly, his detractors never seem to address this, harping instead about how "unfair" and "implausible" reparations would be.
Happy Black History Month!
...Why on earth would I have thought that?
In any event, this isn't new, and not unique to car dealers.
Exactly this. This is one of the things Ta'nehisi Coates talks about regularly. Interestingly, his detractors never seem to address this, harping instead about how "unfair" and "implausible" reparations would be.
Happy Black History Month!
Read the article.
If you're not going to bother to read the OP, you really shouldn't be posting in the thread.
Except in this case it happened across the board specifically in a certain way to people of color. I'm not even sure what the hell you are trying to get at. They were wrong for what they did and even seem to be accepting it. The fact that they COULD charge other races just as high as they charged POC but decided not to does not shift any of the blame onto the person being discriminated against, no matter how hard you try to spin it as such.
Hence the punishment for doing that shit.
freethoughtbubble
Member
How do you account for minorities paying, on average, more than their white counterparts?
starchild excalibur
Member
That it's the customers fault for being discriminated against. I think?
That's what I did before even bringing up financing options, but they are still pretty shady even after deciding on a final price. Dealers will offer you a price that contains a rebate that cannot be bundled with certain financing options -- they won't tell you this until financing is brought up. I received a lot of offers that were pretty good, but they made point to say that if you go for 0% APR option, you wouldn't get this price or it would go up by $x.
Septimus Prime
Member
That, I have seen, but I think that is actually legit, since the promotions are usually either/or and are dictated by the manufacturer. Your dealer should tell you this right off the bat, though, since it should be written in the promotion materials. The dealers around here will also flip their monitor so you both see what numbers they're typing in.
Still, it never hurts to also do your own math, and at least use simple interest to get an idea for what the price should be close to.
In theory, it should be easy for them to get away with this nonsense on anyone, since everyone's credit rating will be different, and you don't get to see what kinds of rates other buyers are getting. That being the case, it does seem like the financiers are deliberately giving minorities higher interest rates of their own accord, so I don't see how it could be construed as anything but discrimination.
If I had to guess, I almost want to say that this could be partially attributable to the dealers in lower income areas--where there are more minorities--simply being less scrupulous. Maybe they would try to rip off white people just as much, except whites more often shop elsewhere.
It's business honestly, people don't care as much if a minority person is treated unfairly and minorities tend to lack The resources to really make a stink over something like pricing, especially if it's not significantly higher than the norm.
Massive simplification of course.
ugaboga232
Member
Racism into making more money.
silvermember
Banned
Minorities are considered second class citizens. This happens a lot in this particular instance it was car loans. In the past it was or still is house loans.
I am curious as to how this works. When I filled in the application for a credit check to see what interest rates I got , there wasn't really a "Race" entry. The dealer then types in this information to Toyota Financing online to run the credit check and see what I am eligible for.
Do they fill out Race information behind your backs? Isnt that like illegal since I am signing this document and shit? How could they add more info on to it. Based on their own assumption.
Do they fill out Race information behind your backs? Isnt that like illegal since I am signing this document and shit? How could they add more info on to it. Based on their own assumption.
its not only financing, this happens when people of color or even i believe women as well attempt to haggle down prices on cars as well where other people get better deals. its pretty crazy.
Heres an article about it:The Price Is Racist: When Minorities (and Women) Are Asked to Pay More
Zoe
Member
It's not an algorithm like this:
The individual dealerships are allowed by Toyota to tack on extra points, up to a certain threshold, at their own discretion. There's no kind of mandate or official policy/formula (at least not at the corporate level). It's in the dealership's own interest to jack up the rate on everyone because that's more money that goes to them instead of corporate, but according to findings, it's not being applied across the board.
That makes sense I guess... Thanks for the clarification, and to the others who replied too.
teruterubozu
Member
BoboBrazil
Member
I'm not saying that discrimination isn't going on, because it does just like in any sales environment. It happens, to women, younger buyers, older buyers, minorities, etc. It is wrong, but it happens. It isn't Toyota Motor Credit giving the higher rate to minorities though. It's the finance managers in the dealerships, which are hired by the dealer franchises. The only way to stop this would be to stop letting the dealers do mark up to the rate. Then they would just charge more for the car and other things like warranties and other products like gap to make it up. It's wrong either way, but what can you do? You just have to get your own finance before going to the dealer.
BoboBrazil
Member
No it wouldn't. A large amount of finance managers at dealers ARE minorities. They take advantage of their own race more than anyone else.
It actually is from the perspective of Toyota Financing. But it looks like the dealer doesnt give you the actual rate.
"The dealer learns the rates the buyer has qualified for, but then is allowed increase it, as the dealer sees fit. That inflated rate can translate into profit for the dealer".
This is just sad. I went to Toyota SF , and the majority of people working there were Asians.
Zoe
Member
Toyota Financing doesn't have an algorithm that says: if white, +0. if black, +2.
The problem is that their setup allows for a human element, and as it is right now that creates a bias against minorities.
Mammoth Jones
Member
Yes that's what I did.. Just walked away.
Mammoth Jones
Member
But it's always been like this for us.
Dealers logic is "Blacks struggle way more to pay the bills so I'm taking more risk... lemme jack up that interest rate"
And I mean times are better with online resources it's easier than ever to educate yourself about this type of stuff but back in the day if your parents didn't sit you down and go over this type of shit you'd get taken for a ride on rates.
They serve almost no purpose and are often an expensive impediment to buying a car at a fair price. Your congressman is in their pocket. Possibly your senator and governor too.
See: Tesla, New Jersey.
ramuh
Member
It's a not so secret that Dealership's 2 driver of revenue is Interest rate kickbacks.
If you go through there finance department they swear they are going to get you the best rate. And then they show you, 3.99. When actually the bank quoted you 2.9 or 3.49. The dealership shoots it up to gain profit. I don't play those silly games. I will never pay more than 1.9 on a 72 month loan.
If you go through there finance department they swear they are going to get you the best rate. And then they show you, 3.99. When actually the bank quoted you 2.9 or 3.49. The dealership shoots it up to gain profit. I don't play those silly games. I will never pay more than 1.9 on a 72 month loan.
KingJ2002
Member
exactly... the employee is just following the rules set by their employer.
What gets me every time news like this break out is that it usually comes after a significant amount of damage has been done.
...
but It's too easy to say that people are just racist though. Rather... lenders will do it because the rules set by the government allows for the "finessing" of minorities. Make a quick buck because... why not? the opportunity to make more is right there.
Systemic racism allows for people who aren't "inherently racist" to do racist things to make a profit... but by the time it's caught... there's tons of minorities stuck in fucked up deals.
freethoughtbubble
Member
Seems like people are suing--and winning--which will force the dealers to take steps to ensure that people with similar credit histories get treated similarly. I don't know how you would accomplish that exactly, but I don't care either--the burden's not on the consumer to figure out not how to avoid getting discriminated against. That shit's on the people doing the discriminating.
I work for one of the world's largest banks providing mortgage financing. I am happy to say our rates are in no way influenced by race, gender etc.
Furthermore, while I could certainly offer a higher rate to one person over another (if I was a piece of shit), there is zero incentive for me to do so.
I make money when someone chooses my services. That choice is almost always determined by who is offering the lowest rate.
As a mortgage consultant, we do everything in our power to give everyone the lowest possible rate so we win their business and earn commission.
Furthermore, while I could certainly offer a higher rate to one person over another (if I was a piece of shit), there is zero incentive for me to do so.
I make money when someone chooses my services. That choice is almost always determined by who is offering the lowest rate.
As a mortgage consultant, we do everything in our power to give everyone the lowest possible rate so we win their business and earn commission.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
It can be super tough to catch this stuff. My father has boycotted Sears for years because (back when Sears was a thing) they were going to charge my mother higher interest rates on her Sears card than his even though they applied and were approved with identical financial history as spouses
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
This is a time-honored practice. Even my grandfather was like "fuck a dealership"
FunkyPajamas
Member
The hell? I can't even begin to imagine what the logic behind such practice could be. The system is so fucked up.
Also sucks that having a car in the states is pretty much a necessity (edit: in certain states/cities).
Also sucks that having a car in the states is pretty much a necessity (edit: in certain states/cities).
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Damn. I got 6.9% on a five-year loan with no credit history when I bought my first new car. The loan was through a Toyota dealership. #whiteprivilege
whatsinaname
Member
Easy enough to say that the dealers are to blame and not the OEMs.
But I think the OEMs are equally to blame. They can't take credit and advertise for good service of their dealers, discounts and offers, say the dealerships are part of the OEM family and then step back when the dealers do something shitty. They could easily have structured paying the dealers differently instead of allowing for this leeway where dealers can prey on poor negotiators or people negotiating from a weaker position.
But I think the OEMs are equally to blame. They can't take credit and advertise for good service of their dealers, discounts and offers, say the dealerships are part of the OEM family and then step back when the dealers do something shitty. They could easily have structured paying the dealers differently instead of allowing for this leeway where dealers can prey on poor negotiators or people negotiating from a weaker position.
ryutaro's mama
Member
And Texas
I already know shit's rigged.
The poster I responded didn't have a clue.
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