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TPC unifying Chinese translations of Pokemon names & some people are protesting

lol this reminds me of when doraemon was renamed from 叮噹 (pronounced "ding dong") to 多啦A夢 ("door la A moan", which sounds similar "doraemon") for the Hong Kong translations. When the manga first appeared in Hong Kong in the 60s, the titular robot cat was named 叮噹. It was widely referred as 叮噹 by those who grew up during the 70s til early 90s.
 
I honestly thought that Pikachu, Pokémon, etc were direct translations from language to language with the exception of it being called Pocket Monsters in Japan.

I can't imagine Weavile official name being anything other than Weavile.

I don't fully know and understand the entire situation going on in Hong Kong right now but it must be pretty bad if it brought out the more dedicated Pokémon fans out into sunlight to march and protest these changes.
 

jiggle

Member
lol this reminds me of when doraemon was renamed from 叮噹 (pronounced "ding dong") to 多啦A夢 ("door la A moan", which sounds similar "doraemon") for the Hong Kong translations. When the manga first appeared in Hong Kong in the 60s, the titular robot cat was named 叮噹. It was widely referred as 叮噹 by those who grew up during the 70s til early 90s.

i was so confused by this change between trips
and had to restart my tankoban collections lol
 

Jintor

Member
I honestly thought that Pikachu, Pokémon, etc were direct translations from language to language with the exception of it being called Pocket Monsters in Japan.

I can't imagine Weavile official name being anything other than Weavile.

nah. the puns in japanese are totally different from the puns in english
 

Aters

Member
The Chinese-speaking market is pretty neglected sadly. I think it's getting better now (for example, IIRC FFXIII was the first FF to get an official Chinese translation) but people still mostly have to deal with Japanese imports. I have no real idea why this is the case but I do kind of wonder if it's due to rampant piracy combined with PC gaming being generally more popular that made publishers hesitant about putting forth the effort to enter the market. Now the argument could be made that publishers themselves caused this problem by not localizing their games for the Chinese market, forcing gamers to resort to and being very accustomed to piracy, as well as not developing a console gaming fanbase... but who can really say at this point.

As for Pokemon, I think Nintendo just handed off the license to various licensing companies which then released the anime/manga for their respective regions. I want to say maybe the TCG got an "official" release as well, at least for the first sets, but I can't really remember. I think some companies got to release "official" branded plush as well, at least in the beginning, but that's mostly died off too due to the ease of internet shopping these days.

Anyways, hopefully these endeavors pay off for companies though! It'd be nice to see more people get to enjoy games that aren't just platformers haha.

Not anymore. Only Nintendo still neglects Chinese speaking regions .

Sony and MS did a superb job of getting their games localized in Chinese. Halo 5 even has Chinese dub. As for Japanese 3rd parties, we already got Trails of Cold Steel 2, Odin Sphere Leifthrasir and Dragon Quest Builder just to name some recent examples. In fact, since Chinese versions usually don't have dub, they usually come out earlier than western localization, even for text-heavy games such as P4G.
 

Mistake

Member
Weren't consoles banned there until very recently?
I have some friends here in China that grew up with nintendo consoles, but that is extremely rare (their parents traveled.) Most people seem to know about Mario, but from what I see, games got their push in China with the psp and ds along with pirating hard to get titles using flashcarts. Stores will sell them bundled.
 
Not anymore. Only Nintendo still neglects Chinese speaking regions .

Sony and MS did a superb job of getting their games localized in Chinese. Halo 5 even has Chinese dub. As for Japanese 3rd parties, we already got Trails of Cold Steel 2, Odin Sphere Leifthrasir and Dragon Quest Builder just to name some recent examples. In fact, since Chinese versions usually don't have dub, they usually come out earlier than western localization, even for text-heavy games such as P4G.

No, if you are a Chinese you should know iQue 神游. It is a subsidiary of Nintendo to release gaming console in China. However, the licenses fail miserably due to low recognition and privacy. I think it is unfair to say that Nintendo neglect Chinese market as it is one of the early adopters among console makers, though the effectiveness of its licensing is questionable.

As a resident of Hong Kong, the issue is entirely political. The tension between Hong Kong and mainland is increasingly severe, thereby every single issues relating to both places will rise to political level. The situation is getting frustrating as many people (in both places) are turning into racists instead of thinking about how to solve the problem. The issue of Pikachu is only another incident that was dragged into this muddy water.
 
Not anymore. Only Nintendo still neglects Chinese speaking regions .

Sony and MS did a superb job of getting their games localized in Chinese. Halo 5 even has Chinese dub. As for Japanese 3rd parties, we already got Trails of Cold Steel 2, Odin Sphere Leifthrasir and Dragon Quest Builder just to name some recent examples. In fact, since Chinese versions usually don't have dub, they usually come out earlier than western localization, even for text-heavy games such as P4G.
The examples you QUOTE applies to the traditional Chinese market (HK and TW), as far as I know there are few official simple Chinese translation.
 

massoluk

Banned
Kinda amusing. These Chinese dialects are pain in the ass. In Southeast Asia, for a long long time, names in popular Chinese novels were translated based on Teochew dialect, which sounds fuck all like Mandarin or Cantonese, because all the Chinese there are Teochew. Now more people wanted to adopt Mandarin, the more internationally popular dialect. The newer novels use Mandarin names, but there are very strong resistance against changing the names of the old novels even though it really made more sense.

I think the best way to deal with this is probably decoupling the simplified and traditional Chinese text and the Pokémon names. Have the name representation to be further set up by a second option if a Chinese option is selected.

This would work really nicely with Simplified and Traditional Mandarin (or close to it) in mainland China and Taiwan, while you can get Traditional, Cantonese names in Hong Kong, and... well, Southeast Asia gets to be picky? :p (Though I'm pretty sure most here are fine with English in SEA.)

Yeah, we mostly used English. Because Nintendo don't localize for Southeast Asia, so we either use original Japanese cartridge and play blind or with walkthrough, or just buy English copies
 
When you take this as part of the larger marginalization of Hong Kong - both politically and culturally - under the heel of the mainland, I can totally see why people are pissed.

Yeah, from reading the OP it sounds more like the marginalization of Hong Kong rather than nerds being pissed about Pokemon.
 

Renekton

Member
lol this reminds me of when doraemon was renamed from 叮噹 (pronounced "ding dong") to 多啦A夢 ("door la A moan", which sounds similar "doraemon") for the Hong Kong translations. When the manga first appeared in Hong Kong in the 60s, the titular robot cat was named 叮噹. It was widely referred as 叮噹 by those who grew up during the 70s til early 90s.
I gotta say, those name translations were wack, some of them like 呀擦仔 are english Asterix levels. Not to mention they had a really old guy voice Doraemon in the Cantonese dubs.
 

t26

Member
Yup. This is just another layer of shit on top of the "Hong Kong" won't exist in the future. Media relevancy is usually the first to go.

Coming off of the Yakuza Zero Cantonese edition, this is a huge regressive step backward. I feel like this generation I'm in is the last that will carry the language.
Yakuza zero is Taiwan Chinese. There is no Cantonese version


However namco's gundam game does allow you to chose between Hong Kong and Taiwanese names
 

Hypron

Member
nah. the puns in japanese are totally different from the puns in english

Yeah, it differs between language because puns don't work if you don't understand them. I never know what people are talking about when they use the English names because I grew up with the French names and never bothered relearning them.

Pikachu is the same (or very similar) in most language though, isn't it?
 
Kinda amusing. These Chinese dialects are pain in the ass. In Southeast Asia, for a long long time, names in popular Chinese novels were translated based on Teochew dialect, which sounds fuck all like Mandarin or Cantonese, because all the Chinese there are Teochew. Now more people wanted to adopt Mandarin, the more internationally popular dialect. The newer novels use Mandarin names, but there are very strong resistance against changing the names of the old novels even though it really made more sense.

Yeah, we mostly used English. Because Nintendo don't localize for Southeast Asia, so we either use original Japanese cartridge and play blind or with walkthrough, or just buy English copies

Heh.

Sometimes I shudder at the thought of having to keep track of four names for a given Pokémon...

Localization can be a very tricky thing to get right.

I think I'll probably stick with English when I get my Moon, though.
 

Kase

Member
The final Chinese character in Mandarin name for Pikachu 皮卡丘 is the main problem. 比(Bei)
and 皮(Pei) both sound similar enough in the Cantonese language to warrant the change albeit in a different tone. However the last character for the two names sound completely different in Cantonese. 超/Chyu would now be changed to a 丘/Yau sound. If they were to accept the new changes Pikachu would be now pronounced as Pei Ka Yau. I don't think anyone would be happy with a Pikachu going "Yau Yau" in their game or anime... as jarring as it would be.

As a resident of Hong Kong, the issue is entirely political. The tension between Hong Kong and mainland is increasingly severe, thereby every single issues relating to both places will rise to political level. The situation is getting frustrating as many people (in both places) are turning into racists instead of thinking about how to solve the problem. The issue of Pikachu is only another incident that was dragged into this muddy water.

Definitely political, with the umbrella protests that happened in 2014. Nintendo is basically saying it's okay for Mainland China to trample over Hong Kong and their local indentity. Hong Kong is already using words which are unified between the between the two languages such as Coca Cola (可口可樂). In Mandarin it sounds very similar (Ke Kou Ke Le) but the Cantonese sounds very off (Hor Hou Hor Lok). But because the name was translated with Mandarin in mind, Cantonese speakers got shafted, ending up having to cater towards the majority. In a place like Hong Kong where they teach democracy, yet do not have full grasp of it, it's definitely painful for Hong Kong residents all around. The Pikachu issue is only to further rub salt in the wound.
 

Ninferno

Member
No, if you are a Chinese you should know iQue 神游. It is a subsidiary of Nintendo to release gaming console in China. However, the licenses fail miserably due to low recognition and privacy. I think it is unfair to say that Nintendo neglect Chinese market as it is one of the early adopters among console makers, though the effectiveness of its licensing is questionable.

As a resident of Hong Kong, the issue is entirely political. The tension between Hong Kong and mainland is increasingly severe, thereby every single issues relating to both places will rise to political level. The situation is getting frustrating as many people (in both places) are turning into racists instead of thinking about how to solve the problem. The issue of Pikachu is only another incident that was dragged into this muddy water.

This sums it up perfectly. As a mainland Chinese myself, I can testify both the iQue part and the politics part.
 

Madness

Member
Think about how much your life must suck to protest something like this.

This goes beyond just Pokemon. It is increasing Mainland Chinese dominance of countries and territories separate from the PRC. Cantonese and Mandarin are similarly related languages but different. So now you have two decades of saying things one way, but just to cash in on the rise of mainland China, they are giving Taiwanese and Hong Kong chinese the shaft.
 
Oh look, armchair analysts equating the gradual cultural erosion of Hong Kong and the Cantonese region as "people with no lives".

This is a tiny event in a war of cultural assimilation. Imagine if Ubisoft only released games to Europe in German because it's the most natively spoken language.

People lose their shit over the European Union putting a voltage limit on vacuum cleaners, but those who protest over their mother tongue being routed out in schools and entertainment are losers?
 

LeleSocho

Banned
3gya2mw.png
 
I actually have manga of both the TW and HK version of pokemon and don't actually mind the difference. I do understand why people will be pissed about their childhood memories being altered. I was OK with something similar- Doraemon ; I read the manga and Watched the show growing up and they all have different localization since it came from different countries(Singapore, Malaysia, Hong Kong and Taiwan), the streamlined standard does not affect how my parents refers to the cat as Xiao Dingdang/小叮噹 (the popular term in singapore due to the Taiwan cartoon being shown in singapore ) , my China(?) classmate from referring to it as robot cat and all my English speaking friend calling him Doraemon.

Wont somebody think of the magic babies?

Digimon is localized as Digital babies in Taiwan too haha. Sounds rights in Chinese but so wrong in English. The Hong Kong localization is badass, Digital T-Rex 數碼暴龍.
 

Watch Da Birdie

I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
I honestly thought that Pikachu, Pokémon, etc were direct translations from language to language with the exception of it being called Pocket Monsters in Japan.

I can't imagine Weavile official name being anything other than Weavile.

I don't fully know and understand the entire situation going on in Hong Kong right now but it must be pretty bad if it brought out the more dedicated Pokémon fans out into sunlight to march and protest these changes.

Pocket Monsters is basically an artifact title at this point in Japan though, it still appears on the box art (with Pokemon written beneath) and in the opening speech by the Professor, but otherwise it isn't actually commonly used by in-game characters as far as I know. Same with the show, I don't think anyone but the narrator says Pocket Monster.


When it comes to the English version at least, the majority of Pokemon have their names drastically altered. The reason for this is two-fold: many of the Japanese names, especially the original 151, like their designs were rather simple and in quite a few cases simply English words. To a Japanese kid "Lizard" (Charmeleon), Spear (Beedrill), and Showers, Thunders, Booster (Vaporeon, Jolteon, and Flareon) sound cool because they're foreign, but they sound very plain to a native English speaker. On the other hand a lot of the Japanese names are also made of Japanese words that'd have no meaning to an English speaker and sound a bit clunky, like Fushigidane (Bulbasaur) or Tosakinto (Goldeen).

There's quite a few names more or less kept---maybe a slight spelling difference or pronunciation difference, due to the differences between the English and Japanese, but the meaning and intent more or less the same. This includes Pikachu and its "clones", the majority of Legendaries, the Legendary Birds being the first exception, and a random smattering of Pokemon whose original name had a pun that'd still work in English, like Butterfree and Arbok, or sounded too cool to change like Gyarados.

The replacement English names sometimes keep the original spirit of the original while making it more digestible to English speakers, though I've noticed it seems like the newer names are attempting this more than the older ones which often went for fun little puns over preserving the spirit of the original. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, as I think making the localized name look good and sound good is the most important part, and while I like the newer Pokemon more or less to the same level of the originals I do think the localized names have gotten a bit too busy and clunky lately hitting its peak in Gen V with names like "Darmanitan" and "Cofagrigus", names which I think don't roll off the tongue whatsoever.
 

Branduil

Member
I wonder why China never developed any phonetic syllabaries or alphabets like Japan and Korea did. Seems like it would be useful for situations such as this.
 

Shiggy

Member
Ruled by China. There are some protections in comparison to the mainland but you are still at risk of being beaten up or jailed for protesting in HK.

Not really, unless you face policemen who don't follow the law or meet some gangsters hired by the CCP. As of now, there's still rule of law in HK (though slowly eroding).


I wonder why China never developed any phonetic syllabaries or alphabets like Japan and Korea did. Seems like it would be useful for situations such as this.

You mean like Pinyin?
 

Zelias

Banned
When you take this as part of the larger marginalization of Hong Kong - both politically and culturally - under the heel of the mainland, I can totally see why people are pissed.
This. It might seem silly, but it's another front in a cultural war between Hong Kong and the mainland.
 

Foolworm

Member
Another bunch of nativist wankers who HAVE to protest every little thing. The new Pokémon title is actually a better transliteration in Cantonese than it is in Mandarin - it's pretty clear the localization team thought things through very carefully. But no - because it's not the name you've been using, it's TERRIBLE and WRONG. Just use the old names if you really want to - you can rename your Pokémon, for crying out loud.

For that matter, people in HK have been reading manga in Taiwan (i.e. Mandarin) and local editions for decades, with this exact issue of transliteration differences. NOBODY has ever made a fuss about it.
 

ppor

Member
I wonder why China never developed any phonetic syllabaries or alphabets like Japan and Korea did. Seems like it would be useful for situations such as this.

There are modern syllabaries for teaching students to read and write Chinese, but they're still different across regions (pinyin in China versus zhuyin in Taiwan). Different dialects also have completely unique syllables, so it'll be tough to create a new standard. At that point, you might as well use the Roman alphabet with accent markers or something like IPA.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Phonetic_Alphabet
 

MANUELF

Banned
This reminds me of the name change we suffered for pokemon moves when the games started to be actually releasing in spanish when compared to the anime
And yes Pokemon Co. the actual name is tackleada NOT placaje
 
There are modern syllabaries for teaching students to read and write Chinese, but they're still different across regions (pinyin in China versus zhuyin in Taiwan). Different dialects also have completely unique syllables, so it'll be tough to create a new standard. At that point, you might as well use the Roman alphabet with accent markers or something like IPA.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Phonetic_Alphabet

How does Pinyin look like in Chinese (let's say standard Mandarin)? For example, how would you write NeoGAF?

On-Topic: Why on earth did the protesters march to the Japanese embassy? Is there anything the consul can do about Pikayao??
 

univbee

Member
How does Pinyin look like in Chinese (let's say standard Mandarin)? For example, how would you write NeoGAF?

On-Topic: Why on earth did the protesters march to the Japanese embassy? Is there anything the consul can do about Pikayao??

They can't force Nintendo to do anything, but they will likely formally contact Nintendo with a long government letter effectively saying "hey, a bunch of people here in Hong Kong are kind of pissed, saying you're helping mainland China assimilate them, you might want to rethink your business strategy since you're taking a political stance whether you intended to or not". Again, there's no "legal" weight to it and Nintendo would absolutely be able to do nothing or tell Hong Kong to go fuck itself, but Nintendo's response (or lack thereof) will impact how the people of Hong Kong think of them, and Nintendo may well decide it's in their best interest to come up with a solution to get the original Cantonese Pokémon names.
 
How does Pinyin look like in Chinese (let's say standard Mandarin)? For example, how would you write NeoGAF?

On-Topic: Why on earth did the protesters march to the Japanese embassy? Is there anything the consul can do about Pikayao??

You can write pinyin without spaces into amazon.cn and it detects it nearly perfect as the modern Chinese, its pretty crazy.
Helped my friend order some books recently from there.
 

sugarless

Member
Digimon is localized as Digital babies in Taiwan too haha. Sounds rights in Chinese but so wrong in English. The Hong Kong localization is badass, Digital T-Rex 數碼暴龍.

Taiwan loves dem babies in titles, huh. SpongeBob SquarePants = Sponge Baby, etc. (well, that's all I can think of...)
 
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