I've been heavily into PC gaming and console gaming in the same time periods you mention and I have to say it's hard for me to fathom how PC gaming was cheaper for you. Unless you were buying a TON of console games and then... well duh, it obviously cost you more. You were consuming considerably more content.Fragamemnon said:
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Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Trion World CEO: "Consoles Am Doomed. We give those b*tches one more generation."
- Thread starter gregor7777
- Start date
gregor7777
Banned
ElectricBlue187 said:
OK, I put an asterisk in the thread title and added an edit to the original post. Sorry for the confusion.
Hmm.. With all due respect for HP, and as a PC user (and IT professional)..
I don't see a PC touching the perks of consoles. Consoles are easier to use, quieter, smaller, less expensive, sturdier, fit under a TV (yes you can connect a PC to a TV, but then the family cannot watch something else).
It's true that MS and Sony have created two consoles that negate some of those advantages, but I'm also confident that it's just a temporary issue -- in a year or two there will be revisions of the same hardware which will be cheaper, sturdier and quieter.
There are PCs which are as cheap, small and as quiet as a console, but they are of course not up to spec with the top of the line PC, and they cannot play the same games with the same aesthetics.
I mean, I'm typing this from a PC but a PC cannot beat a thingy like Wii, which I could take home for 259 (with a controller) and in five minutes I was playing Wii games with the same performance as any other Wii owner, and was connected to the net wirelessly.
By the way, PCs have also problems with backward compatibility.. I could pop in any cube game I had from five years ago (or download a NES game from 20 years ago from the VC!) and run it on Wii at its best, without configuring or installing anything.
No, they either come up with something revolutionary (wish they would) or this is just PR for some upcoming line of whatever.
I don't see a PC touching the perks of consoles. Consoles are easier to use, quieter, smaller, less expensive, sturdier, fit under a TV (yes you can connect a PC to a TV, but then the family cannot watch something else).
It's true that MS and Sony have created two consoles that negate some of those advantages, but I'm also confident that it's just a temporary issue -- in a year or two there will be revisions of the same hardware which will be cheaper, sturdier and quieter.
There are PCs which are as cheap, small and as quiet as a console, but they are of course not up to spec with the top of the line PC, and they cannot play the same games with the same aesthetics.
I mean, I'm typing this from a PC but a PC cannot beat a thingy like Wii, which I could take home for 259 (with a controller) and in five minutes I was playing Wii games with the same performance as any other Wii owner, and was connected to the net wirelessly.
By the way, PCs have also problems with backward compatibility.. I could pop in any cube game I had from five years ago (or download a NES game from 20 years ago from the VC!) and run it on Wii at its best, without configuring or installing anything.
No, they either come up with something revolutionary (wish they would) or this is just PR for some upcoming line of whatever.
Arsenal said:
That could happen.
Aside from that... MS hasn't mentioned this recently but I believe they are going to give every Window's Vista computer some sort of spec rating in the form of a number. And then all Games for Window's releases will have a spec rating number as well.
For example... say Diablo 3 has a spec rating of "4" (and this number would be plastered in a huge number on the back of the box or side of the box or wherever). So if your computer has a rating of 4 or above, you know you can install and run it with little to no problems.
Not sure if or when they are going to implement this... perhaps if GFW takes off, but I think that would solve a lot of issues if it worked correctly.
Z3F said:You must not be a PC gamer. PC gamers know that part of the fun of PC gaming comes from spending 5-10 hours tweaking the system to get an extra 3 frames/s.
Read my edited post.
I was. I got tired of all that bullshit. I couldn't resist either. I was constantly ****ing with it trying to get more. I also couldn't stand it that I had to upgrade constantly to run the games at their best. I used to game on both the PC and consoles about the same. Now I just use the PC for surfing, burning CDs/DVDs and dealing with my multimedia like my music and videos.
Now I also don't feel the need to constantly upgrade either. It's better this way.
plagiarize
Banned
i have linux on my ps3. i can download just about any linux application and install it on my ps3 without sony having anything to say about it.Manmademan said:
what am i missing here?
X360-$400The Sphinx said:
10 games-$600
(we'll ignore XBL costs, extra controllers, shit like that.)
Total 2 year cost of ownership-$1000
Gaming PC-$600 (this price ASSUMES and I think realistically so that you NEED to own a PC. It's basically like a telephone at this point. The $600 is the money you spent to go above and beyond a bare bones box to make something that can play games well.)
10 games-$400
Total 2 year cost of ownership-$1000
PC Gaming: Relatively speaking not as expensive as it used to be :lol
Razoric said:
I had one 360 failure. That's it. I'm probably more particular than you. When I know there are settings that I can't run at - I try my best to get there. Now I don't have that because I can't do that on the console. It's all probably psychological - but I don't care. I couldn't resist ****ing with my PC for hours on end and not having any fun.
Also, if the OS takes a dive, that's pretty much it. You are down for the count until you reset it all up. Consoles don't fail as easily as Windows can get ****ed up from uninstalling something or something similar in nature.
Manmademan
Member
plagiarize said:
you're missing that it's impossible to run a fully-featured PS3 game through linux via download. Sony has explicitly "walled off" parts of the system intentionally to keep the PS3 a closed platform.
hell, you can't even access the graphics card through linux. Come on man, you're not THAT dense. or are you just looking for a debate?
Zombie James
Banned
Consoles are doomed the day I can build a PC and 5 years later still be able to play the latest PC game without upgrading anything or having it look like shit. That's not going to happen.
Fragamemnon
Member
The Sphinx said:
Xbox, PS2, Gamecube, GBA consoles bought at lauch, multiple controllers and memory cards for each, along with the prerequisite component cabling other HT stuff = darn expensive. Actually cost as much than the quality gaming PC built in late 2001/early 2002. That PC lasted me, with three upgrades (one CPU/mobo upgrade ($220), one midrange video card upgrade(read: $170) , and one RAM upgrade ($100)) until I went to a Core 2 Duo system and a complete system overhaul. Actually, I did by a $40 mouse somewhere in there too.
I usually got a lot more out of my PC games because of the good online features and free downloadable mods and usermade stuff. When I compare how much I got out of, say, my money spent on a game like Halo versus the time I put into a game like Neverwinter Nights and it's usermade stuff and expansions, it has to be 20x more the latter.
I played two MMOs over that period heavily as well-Dark Age of Camelot and WoW. I pretty much didn't buy anything else at that point while playing those games.
So yeah, enthusiast PC gaming turned out cheaper for me. Now that I don't play MMOs, I'm still finding it less expensive-when you buy a few games a month, the difference between a $30 newly-released on sale PC game and a $60 MSRP console game add up fast.
Edit: Of course, none of this matters if you just don't like the kind of games on the PC, in which case a gaming PC would be a complete waste.
I mean... do YOU own a PC? Like for email and posting on GAF and stuff? You do I'm guessing. So if it came down to how to spend your gaming hardware budget, upgrading that PC with more RAM, a better video card and a faster processor would be a viable option instead of buying a console. I think that's a pretty good point but who knows I'm so super biased.Dr_Cogent said:
FYI- I bought STALKER and CnC3 brand new for $40 each.
So you're comparing the PC to ALL THREE consoles together? That's... an unique perspective. And it's STILL cheaper then that PC after you add all the upgrades in.Fragamemnon said:
Further, your argument pre-supposes that you're spending most of your time with fewer games, but playing user-made mods and such in games like Neverwinter Nights. I'm sure developers are just THRILLED to hear that.
gregor7777
Banned
Razoric said:
Huge problem here is what happens when I upgrade the 1 gig of ram that crippled my system (in games of course) to 2+ gigs of RAM which made a huge difference. Is there some complicated chart I need to read to find out what my new PC "rating" is?
How about home built systems?
Fragamemnon said:
Hmm, alright... so excluding indie/doujin markets (which is where the PC clearly has an advantage over consoles, and are incidentally the only PC titles I care enough to play), where (in the past 3 years) can I get *exclusive*, non-console-ported titles in the following genres: 2D platformer, 3D platformer, arcade racer, shmup, ARPG, SRPG, JRPG (I'll say "released in the states" to discount the Falcom titles that get regularly released in Japan) . I'd definitely be more willing to give PC gaming a try if I hear some commercially released (aka, going into any Gamestop or Best Buy in Podunk, USA, and walking out with a copy) titles in those genres.
plagiarize
Banned
i'm not saying that they are equally open, i'm saying there isn't much in it, and that things seem to be getting closer together.Manmademan said:
the ps3 is much more open than the ps-one or anything before it. it's more open that the ps2 in that installing linux doesn't require any extra add ons.
i know that the gpu is closed off to linux, but that doesn't stop linux from being a completely open software environment running on the PS3. it doesn't stop it being something sony specifically implemented and encourage.
i wasn't talking about games specifically either. there is almost nothing i can't do on my ps3 that can be done on a laptop with a crappy onboard graphics card. so yes, the ps3 has this closed layer. but it's more like a PC than any previous console at the same time as we see PCs moving into the living room.
gregor7777
Banned
Razoric said:A lot of places sell new PC games for $40.
I spend a lot less money on PC games than I do 360 games... and the funny part is I end up putting 100+ hours into each PC game and maybe 1/5 of that into 360 games.
Cheaper and better replayability ftw.
Agreed here. I typically played my PC games into the ground. With good multiplayer on the consoles now (err, console) I find I spend nearly as much time on my console games as I did on my PC games. Still, CS+WoW+GW > all when it comes to hours played.
Draft said:
Go check the normal retail outlets. It's 50 bucks for those games normally. EB has those games listed at 50 bucks. I don't have a Frys around here either, so I can't get those types of deals.
So should someone price out the games with prices from Costco for consoles? Be realistic.
I own 3 PCs currently. One laptop and two desktops. And no, it's not a viable option because I want to play the games on the consoles. Many don't come to the PC. I also don't want to sit in front of the a desk to game either and I am not moving my PC to connect it to my television either.
PC's have their place, and I have no problem if people want to game on them - but the PC is certainly in no position to take over the consoles. The biggest problem with the PC is also it's greatest strength. It's an open system. I've played the PC gaming scene for 20 years. I've had my fill for now.
Manmademan
Member
Fragamemnon said:
WOW is this a bad argument. You're comparing the cost of not one but THREE systems PLUS a handheld to the cost of a PC? That's insane.
One console, even at launch (say, the PS2 or Xbox at $299) is still far, far less money than a PC with or without upgrades. and ironically, even if you go with a single console as opposed to ALL of them combined there's WAY more games to play on just the Ps2.
As for "how much one gets out of a game" that's subjective. You can play Guitar Hero, Virtua Fighter, Amplitude, DDR, Tekken, etc for literally thousands of hours if that's your thing, no mods required.
Also, All console games aren't $60 and you don't have to buy them new. Last gen titles average out at around $39.99 or so, and there's always the used bin. Subscribe to gamefly and you can have an unlimited supply of new console games for what...$20 a month?
Console gaming is cheaper in every imaginable way. there's no way to spin this.
you're missing the point. Linux is only open to the extent that Sony ALLOWS it to be open. It's nowhere near as fully featured as it is on a PC, yes you can run some applications but you CANT use anywhere near the full potential of the system with it, and that's by design.
Sony also has the ability to restrict linux further in the future should someone say...develop an exploit. The PS3 isn't open by any means.
Actually PC gaming right now is strongest in things like PopCap games which avoid the problems of PC (expensive equipment requiring frequent upgrades, driver incompatibilities) and plays to the strengths (digital distribution, open platform development, lower price structure). Games that play on anything with a web browser or java VM should succeed.
I bought both of those games for $40 bucks at Best Buy. STALKER is still available at that price. CnC3 I actually pulled a little trickery. Circuit City had it on sale for $39.99. So I printed that sumbitch out, took it into Best Buy, and price matched the Kane edition (normally $60!) PC gaming let's me stick it to the man and that shit is priceless.Dr_Cogent said:
Also I think we are at an impasse concerning "viable option." If you don't want to play PC games, that's one thing. My point is that if you're going to choose between the two, upgrading is comparative in cost to buying a console.
Fragamemnon
Member
The Sphinx said:
Unique perspective? Hardly. I'm well-to-do in life and there are tons of people here who play games just as much as I do-some more, some less, and they had all the systems back then too. It wasn't an uncommon thing at all back in 2001-2002 here at all.
I had to have a PC anyway, even if I didn't game, just to do basic work, email, music, and the like. Not including the fact that at some point from 2001-2005 there would be an updated PC anyway is also, to use your words, a unique perspective. Actually, the term I would use is disingenuous.
I'm sure developers are equally thrilled to have their console games traded in and sold used at upscale gaming pawn shops.
TemplaerDude
Member
pc games and console games are priced exactly the same, unless i missed something in the past week.
Draft said:
I've had a little bit of desire to play certain PC games recently, but you gotta know that I work on a PC all damn day. I write software for a living so at the end of the day or on the weekend, I'm all PC'ed out. That coupled with the fact that I have gotten repetitive stress injuries from working/playing on the PC far too long makes it hard to wanna go back. I did it for a long time. Maybe I will return one day when my son's college is all paid for and done.
Fragamemnon
Member
djtiesto said:
I really only know the US market-I do know the Japanese market for PC gaming is VERY different than what we have in the US or in Europe.
You have console tastes-the PC gaming route is not for you. That doesn't mean that we have narrow genres focus at all, it's just different than your tastes. I could call consoles for having narrow genre focus for similar reasons, and I'd be just as wrong (both platforms are diverse).
Manmademan
Member
Fragamemnon said:
It's not a "unique perspective" it's a stupid argument. It's exactly the same as if I compared the cost of owning a PS3 to the cost of owning a Gaming PC, a MacBook, plus...say, a PDA.
you compared the cost of not one but 4 separate platforms to the cost of owning one, one of which was a HANDHELD. :lol
you can do "basic email, music, and the like" on a Pentium 3 circa 2000. Good luck running any games on it. What we were discussing was the cost of owning a GAMING PC to the cost of owning "A" console.
Well I can not speak for areas outside the US but here $60 is more or less that average price of a new X360 or PS3 game, where as $40-$50 is probably the PC median. $50 is probably a little more common, but almost every big retailer discounts PC games the week they come out. I don't know why and I don't care, cause it's good for me. I have never seen a $60 PC game (outside of a Collector's Edition or what have you.)maxmars said:
Who the **** cares? Seriously?
I couldn't give a flying **** what I play my games on, if my favourite type of games could only be played on a toaster, than that's what I would buy. Like I give a crap if what I'm playing on in 5-10 years is a PC or a console (by whichever manufacturer). I don't understand people who have allegiance to either whatsoever, especially since you really can't predict what consoles and PC's will be like in ten years when next-next-gen hits.
20-30e here. Sometimes more.
But then, you spend more on PC hardware, so it evens out anyway.
I couldn't give a flying **** what I play my games on, if my favourite type of games could only be played on a toaster, than that's what I would buy. Like I give a crap if what I'm playing on in 5-10 years is a PC or a console (by whichever manufacturer). I don't understand people who have allegiance to either whatsoever, especially since you really can't predict what consoles and PC's will be like in ten years when next-next-gen hits.
Razoric said:
20-30e here. Sometimes more.
But then, you spend more on PC hardware, so it evens out anyway.
Morbid Angel
Member
TemplaerDude said:
Really?
I bought S.T.A.L.K.E.R. for 35 euros. New games for 360 are 60 euros or more.
Fragamemnon
Member
TemplaerDude said:
Next week, I can get Oblivion, Knights of the Nine, and Shivering Isles on the PC for the less than the MSRP of Oblivion PS3/X360. I routinely pay $30 for new PC releases because of the way that publishers and retailers play loss leader with them.
Flesh Into Gear
Member
I built my own rig, I know more than the average bear about PC's, but there are still times when I wanted to drop kick my pc down the steps. I was just playing Vampires: the Masquerades and loving it - until I got to a certain part and it wouldn't stop crashing. I don't feel like looking for a fix so I stopped. PC gaming is just a pain in the ass sometimes.
Manmademan
Member
Draft said:
All console games aren't $60. Like seriously.
TemplaerDude
Member
WELL. looks like i've been getting ripped off.