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[jetsetrez]

I really dislike how so many opinion threads try to assert some kind of factual or definitive truth about their unpopular or revisionist or inflammatory opinion. It's like the clickbait of thread making. Just say you like a thing, you don't have to get so dogmatic about it.

Personally, I couldn't make it past 4 hours in TP. WW is probably tied with LttP as my favorite Zelda (though I haven't played BotW or ALBW).

 

[thefil]

while we're at it, OOT is just a 3D ALTTP, nothing more... it's exactly the same progression!

sure it was impressive at the time because it was 3D, and it's still a great game, but when we think about it, it didn't bring new concepts except for the 3D gameplay

Hugely different from a storytelling and narrative perspective, at least.

Prefer ALttP.

 

[exfatal]

I was fully ready to jump on the RTTP train for Skyward Sword in 6 months once the cycle kicks in but I'm just on too big of a high now.

most def be smoking something if you think TP is in anyways better the WindWaker

Spoiler

please dont let that joke been said already

 

[duckroll]

This is why we will never be friends.

Pro-tip: NOBODY wants to be friends with someone who doesn't think LA is the best Zelda.

Take that!

 

[MrCookiepants]

Fuck no.

Undoubtedly has better dungeons but that's it.

TP IMO is a soulless, blurry, overly long rip off of OoT.

What is Wind Waker outside of dungeons? Looking at water until you reach the next dungeon?

 

[thefil]

Pro-tip: NOBODY wants to be friends with someone who doesn't think LA is the best Zelda.

Take that!

I believed this until I replayed LA on 3DS. Game did not hold up . Everything is so small.

 

[duckroll]

I believed this until I replayed LA on 3DS. Game did not hold up . Everything is so small.

YOU KNOW WHAT ELSE IS SMALL?!

/me stares

 

[KojiKnight]

The real confusing one is people who like LA over ALttP... It's just a drug fueled version of LttP where you have worse inventory control and lots of Mario call backs.

Oh and a super annoying fetch quest that's required for several parts of the game. If you don't have a guide or played it as a kid, I hope you like talking to every person every time you get a new item in hopes that whatever 1990's style point and click logic will pay off



This is common from someone who had the original game growing up in all its green tinted glory.

 

[flintstryker]

I'e been saying this for years WW is the weakest 3d Zelda, and about the only thing I think it does better than any other Zelda is graphics

 

[LonelyGreyWolf]

There's so much hyperbole on both sides, and practically no one here seems to have an open mind. Everyone just seems to highlight they're preferred game of the two as the best thing ever and the other as the worst thing ever. This thread is immature even by video game forums' standards.

For what it's worth, I absolutely love the atmosphere (the art style, the music, etc.) in Wind Waker, and I also believe it to have better side-quests and exploration. All in all, Wind Waker is a far more memorable experience for me.

I'd argue that no game is objectively better than the other, even if OP seems really blunt and stubborn about his darling game being better in every way. It really depends on what you value in a game.

 

[Magicpaint]

MY BLOOD BROTHER! LA FOREVER!

brofist.jpg

Amen

The real confusing one is people who like LA over ALttP... It's just a drug fueled version of LttP where you have worse inventory control and lots of Mario call backs.

Oh and a super annoying fetch quest that's required for several parts of the game. If you don't have a guide or played it as a kid, I hope you like talking to every person every time you get a new item in hopes that whatever 1990's style point and click logic will pay off

Your negatives (aside from inventory controls, can't be helped ) are actually positives to me. One of my big problems with ALTTP is how lifeless and empty the world feels. LA's world, though smaller, feels a lot more lively. Charming characters everywhere, unique settlements, and interesting NPC interactions.

But even aside from that I prefer the gameplay! The world is more fun to explore, the items are more creative and the dungeons are better designed (and actually have unique music) IMO.

 

[-Mutsukki-]

That happens way too often in Wind Waker too, hell, in WW is even worse, because a lot of times your reward is a treasure chart, then you go and just find rupees on it (or a piece of heart, that you don't need anyway since game is ez pz)

I still think that finding island is a reward in itself a lot of the times, at least you have something different to look at, that you discovered.

Zero basis? General consensus for WW at the time was that it was something of a letdown and a misstep after OOT and MM nailed it. This was a very widespread sentiment and palpable to anyone who was on message boards back in the early 2000s. The clamoring for Twilight Princess wasn't just for the "mature" art style... it was the belief we were getting the second coming of Ocarina of Time, a landmark 10/10 game vs. WW feeling like a 8/10 game with unfortunate flaws.

I'm not saying any of this in defense of TP either. That game is no better and has its share of problems too. MM was the peak for 3D Zeldas (with OOT getting tons of credit for laying the groundwork) until BOTW arrived.

I was around during that time and I swear I never saw anything close to people saying it was a letdown. People were excited for TP, yeah, as much as people warmed up for WW they really wanted that SpaceWorld demo, but what I remember is people happy getting more Ocarina, not because they were getting less Wind Waker.

Also, Wind Waker was also an instant classic of a lot of people I personally know so we're going to go nowhere on this "consensus" argument. You'll find plenty of praises for Wind Waker from a lot of publications, you can't call something "revisionist" just because you never particularly saw it... or just don't agree.

What is Wind Waker outside of dungeons? Looking at water until you reach the next dungeon?

The joy of exploring. Knowing townspeople, taking photos, creating statues. You can be reductionist about everything. What's so great about TP dungeons if it's just a lot of puzzle rooms.

 

[Kain-Nosgoth]

The real confusing one is people who like LA over ALttP... It's just a drug fueled version of LttP where you have worse inventory control and lots of Mario call backs.

Oh and a super annoying fetch quest that's required for several parts of the game. If you don't have a guide or played it as a kid, I hope you like talking to every person every time you get a new item in hopes that whatever 1990's style point and click logic will pay off



This is common from someone who had the original game growing up in all its green tinted glory.

i replayed it recently, like last year... and while ALTTP was my favourite until then... now i'm sorry but LA is clearly the best of them all! Sure the inventory was bad, but everything else is amazing, especially the dungeons, they're clearly the best of the serie

 

[duckroll]

There's so much hyperbole on both sides, and practically no one here seems to have an open mind. Everyone just seems to highlight they're preferred game of the two as the best thing ever and the other as the worst thing ever. This thread is immature even by video game forums' standards.

Instead of insulting people by describing a false narrative you could actually participating in the ongoing discussions where plenty of people are talking about the pros and cons of both games. But no, we can't expect that from you. You are TOO MATURE for that.

 

[PSOreo]

I personally liked both Wind Waker and Twilight Princess pretty equally as they're both very different from one another. I can see how people can prefer one over the other as each has its own strengths and failings.
However I can't understand the defence for Skyward Sword. For me it is and always will be my second biggest let down in gaming (No Mans Sky takes pride at number one) for being so horribly repetitive in its nature and just all around disappointing.

 

[Adam_Roman]

I enjoy that this has become a stealth LA GOAT thread. It's so unique and wonderfully crafted. And I absolutely loved figuring out the stuff with the really long trade quest as a kid. Ages/Seasons are great as well, but I feel like specifically Link's Awakening DX will always be my favorite Zelda. It's super accessible too. I told some of my friends to try it who had never even played a 2D Zelda other than LttP and it blew them away how good it was, especially as a Gameboy game.

 

[exfatal]

I agree with you, OP. Been saying the same thing for years.

And for years you been wrong

I never particularly loved Wind Waker but I remember when I started playing Wind Waker HD, I was thinking "at least this game's definitely better than Skyward Sword" and then pretty quickly I was like "nope, it really isn't". Twilight Princess HD, despite the fact that Twilight Princess is newer than Wind Waker, somehow felt more nostalgic to me and it really reminded me how much I loved the game.

Yeah nothing says Zelda Nostalga like running around for like 5 hours doing dumb fetch quest to leave an even dumber town. you think playing as an adult link wouldnt have to do all this pointless bs b4 actually going out and saving the world.
also my God is the first temple the worst thing to ever come outta that mediocre Zelda game, argh i get upset even remembering it.

I've been saying this for years WW is the weakest 3d Zelda, and about the only thing I think it does better than any other Zelda is graphics

Graphics, world, characters, story all leagues better the w.e the hell TP was trying to do

Spoiler

was like playing a Chinese knock off of your favorite game.

 

[Timu]

I think Wind Waker was more fun to play.

 

[-Mutsukki-]

I personally liked both Wind Waker and Twilight Princess pretty equally as they're both very different from one another. I can see how people can prefer one over the other as each has its own strengths and failings.
However I can't understand the defence for Skyward Sword. For me it is and always will be my second biggest let down in gaming (No Mans Sky takes pride at number one) for being so horribly repetitive in its nature and just all around disappointing.

I don't want to derail this into a Skyward Sword thread, but I can summarize what I really liked about it and why the experience felt good enough:

- Fun dungeons
- I actually like the combat
- I like the characters a lot
- Locations, while smaller, were pretty well designed and memorable
- Timeshift Stone puzzles were great
- While very small and limited, Skyloft, especially around the Market Board, had it's own personality
- Very pretty art style

 

[dani_dc]

while we're at it, OOT is just a 3D ALTTP, nothing more... it's exactly the same progression!

sure it was impressive at the time because it was 3D, and it's still a great game, but when we think about it, it didn't bring new concepts except for the 3D gameplay

That's kind of a big concept to bring.
Also 3D level design with all that comes with it.

OOT follows ALTTP template in terms of progression but the way they play and are designed is completely different.

 

[Celine]

For my taste TP is better than WW and SS however it's the least original game of the three in the sense that it was created to be a OoT on steroids while SS and especially WW have far more personality.

 

[duckroll]

Oh and a super annoying fetch quest that's required for several parts of the game. If you don't have a guide or played it as a kid, I hope you like talking to every person every time you get a new item in hopes that whatever 1990's style point and click logic will pay off

I played LA on the original GB when it came out. I bought DX with a GBC later on as well. I have it on my 3DS off the eShop. I will buy it again when the Switch gets VC. I replay the game every couple of years. It's fantastic every single time. There is an intimacy and magic about the dream island that few other Zelda games have. The dungeons are really well paced, and there are some really memorable battles. Eagle Tower is one of the best dungeons and bosses there is. The fetch quest chain isn't tedious or obtuse at all if you get to know all the characters on the island. It's not random. You don't need a guide. I think players enjoy talking to characters they find interesting so that's not a negative either. Also, 90s adventure games rock. That's how Double Fine continues to stay afloat remastering them! Suck it!

 

[exfatal]

I don't want to derail this into a Skyward Sword thread, but I can summarize what I really liked about it and why the experience felt good enough:

- Fun dungeons
- I actually like the combat
- I like the characters a lot
- Locations, while smaller, were pretty well designed and memorable
- Timeshift Stone puzzles were great
- While very small and limited, Skyloft, especially around the Market Board, had it's own personality
- Very pretty art style

all of this is what makes Skyward swords one of my favorite zelda games. up there with Oot and Minish cap

Spoiler

minish cap is more of a guilty pleasure

 

[The Lamp]

Holy friggen sweet jesus I'm nearly done with Snowpeak and this game has been consistently better than Wind Waker in almost every way. I can understand people not liking Skyward Sword for whatever technical reason, but Twilight Princess is simply better in the same mold that Wind Waker uses.

-Better dungeons
-Better bosses
-More rewarding exploration
-INFINITELY better items

I've dropped wind waker multiple times but Twilight Princess still has me hooked. What do people see in WW?

WW has more charm and better art design. I enjoy coming across peculiar islands and talking to the expressive NPCs. Tetra is also a better character than TP Zelda. Also the plot is very interesting, with a way better end sequence.

 

[DecoReturns]

I would love a Link's Awakening remake.

 

[Kain]

I respectfully disagree

 

[Grug]

The OP is entitled to his objectively incorrect opinion.

 

[MoonFrog]

WW Pros:

+Art style
+Originality
+Atmosphere
+Music
+Characters

WW Cons:

-Bad/rushed second half
-Lots of truly empty space
-Dungeons are so-so (comparatively to the rest of the series)

TP Pros:

+Play as adult Link for entire game/great Link design
+Amazing dungeon design, especially the final dungeon
+While still empty, better overworld than WW
+Great set of tools

TP Cons:

-Uninteresting characters, especially

Spoiler

Ganondorf

and Zelda for who they are
-Extremely ugly NPCs
-Terribly slow beginning
-Wolf Link
-Twilight realm (music, enemy design, weird grain filter, everything)
-World feels very segmented, even more so than normal
-Music isn't that good

Overall I think they're pretty close in quality to each other. I prefer Wind Waker for everything but dungeons, but dungeons are such a huge part of Zelda games (outside of BotW which is... a different beast) that TP's great dungeon design really does balance them out.

Yeah. As I said I'm in a TP phase (over WW), but I've been in a WW phase before. Considerations are close to these.

I prefer OoT and SS over both of them. MM probably less than either.

I don't like ranking 2D and 3D together much, but it's generally 3D + aLttP and LA making up my list.

Haven't played the NES or Oracle games.

 

[duckroll]

I would love a Link's Awakening remake.

I don't want Zelda remakes. I think that's a really lazy way forward. If the team making a new game wants to be inspired by an old title, they should take everything they love about it and challenge themselves to make a new Zelda that's as good or better. Remakes are a net loss for fans because we're getting a modified version of an existing game we already played. It is my opinion that every single Zelda game holds up today and does not need to be remade. I have no qualms recommending any Zelda game from the very first one, to anyone looking for the right sort of Zelda experience. Ports are fine though. Allowing people to play old games on the newest systems is convenient.

 

[Glass Rebel]

Wind Waker achieves a sense of adventure through a combination of things secondary to the core gameplay. Artstyle, music and the vast overworld come together beautifully to give you the feeling of being part of something grand that Twilight Princess honestly never achieves. TP never has a moment as sublime as going out on the sea for the first time.

Sadly, WW is also lacking in everything else. After the initial fascination with the overworld wears off, there isn't much to the game. The dungeons in particular are among the worst in the series and... yeah, what else is there in WW? I guess it had a cool Ganondorf.

Is Twilight Princess as pretty and atmospheric as WW? Nah but it has without a doubt the best designed dungeons and is, after you get past the sluggish introduction, a blast to play. In Wind Waker I felt like I was going through the motions, in TP I was actually driven forward by the game.

 

[Adam_Roman]

The one thing OP is undeniably right about is Snowpeak. That is one of the best 3D Zelda dungeons, full stop.

 

[MoonFrog]

I don't want Zelda remakes. I think that's a really lazy way forward. If the team making a new game wants to be inspired by an old title, they should take everything they love about it and challenge themselves to make a new Zelda that's as good or better. Remakes are a net loss for fans because we're getting a modified version of an existing game we already played. It is my opinion that every single Zelda game holds up today and does not need to be remade. I have no qualms recommending any Zelda game from the very first one, to anyone looking for the right sort of Zelda experience. Ports are fine though. Allowing people to play old games on the newest systems is convenient.

Only thing I sort of want remade is the story of OoT wrt Ganondorf. And I think that's a questionable wish.

Idk. They did something new and cool with Ganon in WW and there are plenty of weak Zeldas, but she just feels so much easier to do again and different than Ganon.

 

[score01]

I think the waggle fight controls ruined twilight princess. IR bow control was great though but actual combat just seemed disconnected.

 

[BGBW]

You're right about it being blurry (lol >_<) but the rest will not stand!

Well TPHD fixes the blurry factor. There the big issue is one bed that they forgot to retexture.

It's a shame that one bed will never be patched.

 

[duckroll]

Well TPHD fixes the blurry factor. There the big issue is one bed that they forgot to retexture.

It's a shame that one bed will never be patched.

True Story: The "style" of TP is the reason why I bought a component cable for my GC when I bought TP.

 

[bachikarn]

Wind Waker has slowly become overrated.

 

[MrCookiepants]

The joy of exploring. Knowing townspeople, taking photos, creating statues. You can be reductionist about everything. What's so great about TP dungeons if it's just a lot of puzzle rooms.

The fact that you list "taking photos" as compelling content is proof of the lack thereof.

Wind Waker = 50% crappy dungeons and 50% crappy sailing. Just tragic.

 

[-Mutsukki-]

The fact that you list "taking photos" as compelling content is proof of the lack thereof.

Wind Waker = 50% crappy dungeons and 50% crappy sailing. Bottom tier Zelda.

And that is why exactly...? I mean, I guess I worded it kinda weirdly, but if you played it you should be aware that the creating of statues is implied in why you would take photos in the first place. It is pretty fun to find a break during the boss fight to snap a shot of it. You also ignored the rest to make a non-argument, lol

But what yopu describe here is all just window dressing. All these things are mechanically mundane. If you reuce TP dungeons to being a lot of puzzle rooms, you cannot remove the substance from that this way.

Can't you? I dunno, I don't play Zelda because it is just puzzles, the "window dressing" is most certainly very important. Games are not just gameplay pieces you know. Calling something "mechanically mundane" doesn't mean anything, if that were the case we should make a Zelda that is just going from puzzle to puzzle in a straight way, why do we need the overworld at all.

 

[Yoshi]

The joy of exploring. Knowing townspeople, taking photos, creating statues. You can be reductionist about everything. What's so great about TP dungeons if it's just a lot of puzzle rooms.

But what yopu describe here is all just window dressing. All these things are mechanically mundane. If you reuce TP dungeons to being a lot of puzzle rooms, you cannot remove the substance from that this way.

 

[XaosWolf]

Wind Waker wins out for me by being a whole lot easier to get started on (andhaving a much better at style).

The thought of going back through the starting act of TP gets a huge sigh every time, despite the dungeons being far better and the traversal method being better too.

Regardless of which side of the TP vs WW battle you fall on, I think we can all agree that we don't like having out time wasted as with the following:

TP - Barren overworld and super slow start
WW - Predominantly barren overworld and infuriatingly late game fetch quest
SS -

​

Repeated boss and "collect all the things" quests that at one point splits one of the things into more things.

Oh and since there's for some reason a debate about the 2D Zeldas: LA is better than ALttP.

 

[Derpot]

I agree about dungeons, but disagree about the other points.

WW also has best Ganondorf imo. TP Ganondorf has a great design but he was just there like "hey guyz don't forget about me".

 

[Jailer of Hope]

Wind Waker wins out for me by being a whole lot easier to get started on (andhaving a much better at style).

The thought of going back through the starting act of TP gets a huge sigh every time, despite the dungeons being far better and the traversal method being better too.

Regardless of which side of the TP vs WW battle you fall on, I think we can all agree that we don't like having out time wasted as with the following:

Ugh I'd rather put up with any part of TP than the Forsaken Fortress.

People dog on TP and SS for filler but it was clear that starting with WW, Nintendo has a tough time trying to expand the world while also filling it with compelling content. They finally broke that streak with BoTW by letting you literally do whatever you want.

 

[Possumowner]

I loved both,but Wind Waker a little more.Just adored its art style

 

[Branduil]

while we're at it, OOT is just a 3D ALTTP, nothing more... it's exactly the same progression!

sure it was impressive at the time because it was 3D, and it's still a great game, but when we think about it, it didn't bring new concepts except for the 3D gameplay

Well, making 2D games actually playable in 3D was kind of a big deal at the time. Heck some franchises still haven't gotten it right coughsoniccough.

 

[duckroll]

Is OoT really just a 3D LttP though? I must have missed the part where LttP had defining mechanics like horse riding and enemy lock-on. In terms of bringing a 2D series into 3D in a meaningful way, I would say OoT is closer to MGS2 than MGS1. With MGS1 you can -really- argue that a huge percentage of the entire game is literally a 3D MG2SS.

 

[Kain-Nosgoth]

Well, making 2D games actually playable in 3D was kind of a big deal at the time. Heck some franchises still haven't gotten it right coughsoniccough.

yeah that's what i said, it was impressive at the time! And still a good game, but after replaying them all recently, OOT is not even in my top 5 zelda list OOT really felt like an ALTTP remake in 3D (which was the point i guess, bringing such a big franchise in the 3d departement)

Is OoT really just a 3D LttP though? I must have missed the part where LttP had defining mechanics like horse riding and enemy lock-on. In terms of bringing a 2D series into 3D in a meaningful way, I would say OoT is closer to MGS2 than MGS1. With MGS1 you can -really- argue that a huge percentage of the entire game is literally a 3D MG2SS.

like i said, the biggest thing he bring was the 3D gameplay, and it was a huge deal, i'm not arguing that at all

 

[-Mutsukki-]

Is OoT really just a 3D LttP though? I must have missed the part where LttP had defining mechanics like horse riding and enemy lock-on. In terms of bringing a 2D series into 3D in a meaningful way, I would say OoT is closer to MGS2 than MGS1. With MGS1 you can -really- argue that a huge percentage of the entire game is literally a 3D MG2SS.

Yeah no it isn't. This is honestly just something Arin said in his Sequelitis video of Zelda and LttP and people took it to heart without giving it a second thought

 

[Magicpaint]

That's kind of a big concept to bring.
Also 3D level design with all that comes with it.

OOT follows ALTTP template in terms of progression but the way they play and are designed is completely different.

Yep. I mean something like Z-targeting, horse riding and context sensitive controls were strong features at the time but because they're now common place in today's world people tend to trivialize what OoT brought to the table. It was not a small feat and saying it's just ALTTP in 3D is reductive. It also established a lot of lore that is now standardized in the series. Let's not forget what the Zoras were depicted as in ALTTP compared to what they are now...

 

[kromeo]

You're right of course, the best Zelda game is definitely better than the worst one.

Wind Waker might have been enjoyable if there was actually anything interesting to discover outside of the story islands

 

[cireza]

coughsoniccough.

Oh really ?