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[nluckett]

I give the nod by a large margin to Skyward Sword.

I loved the mood in Twilight Princess and some of the dungeons were amazing. The side things like snowboarding and canoeing were fun. Midna was great. But the semi-attempt to be an open world is where the game failed. I was fairly bored running or clumsily riding around the world of TP.

Skyward Sword on the other hand, kept me pretty active in each section. I liked the move towards pre-dungeon puzzling. Having to do little environmental puzzles to get into dungeons was great and something that sounds like they are bringing to the Wii U version. The Stamina meter was nice.

I often think of Skyward Sword as the anime of the Zelda series. It's got a small cast and a limited play area (with skyloft sectioned off from all the below ground areas) that keeps the story moving. I loved the characters in SS and the controls made me feel more like I was Link than in any other game. I do note that Im on my 3rd play through of SS and just now getting the hang of doing certain moves properly (finally can do the thrust all the time, with a slow deliberate motion). It does feel like learning a skill in a weird way. So for someone who likes the game, that actual physical improvement feels like an accomplishment.

I did wish while playing through the first time that there was more to the sky. I wanted to fly to other cloud cities (there had to be more, right?), have a sneaky night flying mission, etc. But having the characters in Skyloft have a decent ark, especially Groose, was fun to experience.

One way I think they could have made Fi better is to see her on screen more often, like Midna. Fi was almost always gone unless she was giving me some reminder... so her presence almost always felt intrusive. Midna was there on the journey with you and felt like a more fleshed out character. I hope any sidekick in the Wii U game takes a more modern approach where they walk with you and talk to you and it doesnt stop the action of the game.

Anyway, for me TP felt like a step back after Wind Waker. It seemed like the Zelda team was going "shit, we dont know what they want. Let's just give them a new Ocarina of Time, more mature." Skyward Sword felt like a game with fresher ideas in it.

Anyway, all of this to say that with Skyward Sword, A Link Between Worlds, and the thought and retooling they gave Wind Waker HD and Majoras 3D, I feel like the Wii U one should be pretty great. Let's hope they've learned the lessons we all wanted them to.

Still curious to see what the hook or crazy design tweak will be the centerpoint of the new Zelda game. Ill also be bummed if I can't fly on a bird or something. Flying around in SS was so zen for me.

 

[Jay RaR]

Without a shadow of a doubt, its Twilight Princess for me.

Positives:

Twilight Princess
+ Amazing dungeons (Goron Mines, Snowpeak Mansion, Arbiter's Grounds, City in the Sky, Temple of Time, really the only one I disliked was the one in the Twilight Realm)
+ Great music (Midna's Lament, Snowpeak Mansion boss theme are some I can think of)
+ The art style (Its outdated now, but I at least prefer it over Skyward Sword's)
+ The aiming (motion) controls (The best I ever experienced and imo better than what SS implemented)
+ Basic combat controls (This might sound crazy, but I prefer TP's motion controls for the sword over SS's. To me, the attacks at least came out more often than SS's. It may also be waggle to victory combat, but honestly I waggled to victory in SS a couple of times).
+ Great overworld (While not as big or rich in content as the Wind Waker there are at least some optional mini-dungeons and caves to explore. I do like the locales too like Hyrule Field and the Gerudo Desert)
+ Midna is arguably the best partner in all the Zelda games I've played. Great personality and the bittersweet ending with her really did get to me)
+ Some of the weapons like the Ball and Chain and the Spinner were pretty cool to use)
+ Some of the boss fight's were pretty awesome, like the Arbiter Ground's boss fight, the Sky Dragon, the final boss)
+Running and cutting the grass at the same time. Felt sooo good doing that the first time I played the game.

Skyward Sword
+The second half of the Lanayru Desert is the best area in the game and probably one of the best areas in all of the Zelda games. The contrast of the sea and the desert with the timeshift stones is very beautiful and probably the highlight of the game for me.
+2 great dungeons, the Sandship and the Ancient Cistern. The rest were average to meh.
+The Silent Realm trials were pretty good. Some may not like them, but I liked it for the challenge and probably being one of the few parts of the game where I didn't rely on the motion controls.
+The interactions with Zelda and Groose were pretty great.
+Upgrades were a neat addition.
+Ability to place bombs into the bomb bag was a neat addition too and very useful.
+Skyloft was a great hubworld with tons of sidequests and people to talk to. The main town is probably smaller than Clock Town in Majora's Mask, but I appreciated it nonetheless.
+Some of the boss fights like the one in the Ancient Cistern, the Ghirahim fights, and the final boss battle.
-Game was actually a challenge, maybe partly because of the inaccuracy of the motion controls for the sword.

Negatives:

Twilight Princess
-Probably the slowest start of any Zelda game I've played.
-Lackluster story. The dilemma with Link and Illia doesn't get settled until the near end of the game but at that point I stopped caring for her. It was hard to care for the people in Castle Town since they never knew they became spirits or what had happened with Zelda. Zelda was honestly a very boring character in the story as well. The twist with Zant was absolutely awful and I feel the return of Ganondorf was completely unnecessary. Oh well.
-The Vessel of Light parts. Very slow and not very much fun with the use of the wolf.
-Wolf Link. I like the idea of controlling as a wolf, but I felt Wolf Link was underutilized and pretty forgettable during the end parts of the game.
-Lack of reuse of the items. The ball and chain, the spinner, and the slingshot in particular.
-Epona being useless at the end parts of the game. We get her way late into the story when we wave warp points to use. She's still useful when going around Hyrule Field, but that's it really.
-Game was too easy.

Skyward Sword
-Fi is a horribly annoying partner and arguably the worst partner in the series. To me, she dethroned Navi at that title which I thought wouldn't be possible, but it happened.
-Lackluster overworld, Faron Forest, Eldin Volcano, and the first half of the Lanayru Desert. Very boring, very linear, and not much else to explore. The sky itself was a disappoint as there's very little to explore and barely any content in it. I'd say its worse than TP in that regard.
-Inaccuracy of the motion controls. I beat the game, upgraded all of my tools and weapons, and obtained the Hylian Shield. I can still say that the motion controls for swordplay is inaccurate some of the time and at those times they were absolutely infuriating to me. This might shock some people, but I prefer the motion controls in TP than in SS. At least in TP, I can be almost entirely assured I can hit the damn enemy unlike in SS.
-Shoehorning motion controls in places where they shouldn't have to be, namely flying, swimming, and tight rope walking.
-Unskippable cutscenes and slow moving text dialogue. Like, why? Both were in TP and for some reason they weren't in SS. I can't believe this was massively overlooked and both should at least be a standard in games today. At least you can skip cutscenes in Hero mode, but why not the first playthrough?
-Lackluster story as well. It took way too long for the story to get going and by the end I just couldn't care. The game also did a horrible job in making me feel sympathetic about Fi. Not many times did I remember Fi being very emotionally attached to me so her last words at the end felt very forced. The twist with Impa was nice, but thats about it really.
-Forgettable music. Honestly, the only song I can remember is the one where Link chases Fi in Skyloft at night in the beginning of the game, Thats it.
-No Loftwing races. This annoys me more than it should, but why couldn't we race other people in Loftwings in the game? They showed me I can compete with other people in Loftwings during the ceremony and there are students who can use them, why can't I race them? Absolute waste of potential.
-Can't travel the overworld in the air at night. Absolutely stupid.
-The art design. To me, I can't stand it and hurts my eyes after a while. I vastly prefer Wind Waker and Twilight Princess over this.
-Boss design of some of the bosses. The Sandship boss and the Imprisoned especially looked like what a 5 year old would draw.
-Reuse of levels and bosses. Backtracking is a horribly annoying chore in Faron Woods and Eldin Volcano and fighting the Imprisoned 3 times is not fun and very dull.
-Can't run and swing the sword at the same time. I know its a minor change, but its still a stupid change nonetheless. It would've been massively helpful at the part where you have to run through hordes of enemies to get to Zelda, but alas it was not there.

There were some good parts in SS I liked, but the negatives massively outweigh the positives for me and soured my experience on the game. I hated TP at first and grew to love it over time, but with SS I just cannot.

I also laugh at the so called "Zelda cycle". Its just like looking at the Sonic cycle, untrue, memetic, and just a lame excuse to badmouth a game. Even with ALBW, while boring, is something I'd rather replay over SS any day.

 

[Muffdraul]

TP is my least favorite Zelda. To me it's the most "phoned in" feeling one. I find the general visual/art design to be unappealing. Character design too. Almost everything about it was just very meh to me. I thought it had some of the dullest dungeons in the history of the franchise.

I really loved SS. Definitely one of the weirdest Zelda in many ways. And I happen to have a particular fondness for weirdness, and when old franchises dare to make some hard left turns. For me its biggest flaw was the graphics, especially the filter. And the fugly ass font. I would looove to see an HD remaster.

 

[King Cobra]

I am hoping that we get these available for download on the Wii U

 

[RagnarokX]

She stops beeping but her icon on the dpad doesn't stop. When you switch screens it resets again. It sucks and so does she.

Her icon doesn't stop flashing, so what? The icon is always there anyway.

And again, all in all, it's one of the least annoying ways they've handled that compared to other Zelda games. A couple of medium beeps followed by quiet beeps:
http://youtu.be/KPwAKWItncQ?t=33m27s

as opposed to:
http://youtu.be/InwEdRAjWaI?t=10m18s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNoLRlmKMak

 

[Tabasco]

I only finished the first dungeon in Skyward Sword, but I can already tell that I don't like it a whole lot.

The art style is not my cup of tea, and I prefer a dark overworld much like Twilight Princess was.

If I were to pick one over the other, it wouldn't be fair solely for the fact that I have never finished Skyward Sword. Just out of instinct though, I feel like I enjoyed Twilight Princess more based out of what I've played from both games.

 

[RagnarokX]

I only finished the first dungeon in Skyward Sword, but I can already tell that I don't like it a whole lot.

The art style is not my cup of tea, and I prefer a dark overworld much like Twilight Princess was.

If I were to pick one over the other, it wouldn't be fair solely for the fact that I have never finished Skyward Sword. Just out of instinct though, I feel like I enjoyed Twilight Princess more based out of what I've played from both games.

I wonder how you would feel if you stopped after the first dungeon in TP, cuz man is start to first dungeon in TP awful compared to start to first dungeon in SS.

 

[WrenchNinja]

Here icon doesn't stop flashing, so what? The icon is always there anyway.

And again, all in all, it's one of the least annoying ways they've handled that compared to other Zelda games. A couple of medium beeps followed by quiet beeps:
http://youtu.be/KPwAKWItncQ?t=33m27s

as opposed to:
http://youtu.be/InwEdRAjWaI?t=10m18s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNoLRlmKMak

So what? A light constantly blinking is annoying. On top of everything else annoying about the character and the game.

It's strange that this happens even with the Pro HUD with nothing to stop it unless you select her or solve her problem. The icon isn't always there unless Fi wants to annoy you which breaks the pro hud.

I'm not sure what you're trying to prove by bringing up older games. It's not as though shitty aspects of older games excuses this.

 

[Tabasco]

I wonder how you would feel if you stopped after the first dungeon in TP, cuz man is start to first dungeon in TP awful compared to start to first dungeon in SS.

I believe I enjoyed the first dungeon in TP more than in SS. It just had that atmosphere to it that was perfect for the kind of game TP was.

The journey to each first dungeon were both fine, though.

 

[malingenie]

I'm in the vastly prefer Skyward sword camp. Never finished TP, got too bored!

 

[tookhster]

Easily TP for me. It deserves criticism for the slow start and stupid insect quests, but once you get through all that BS the game is amazing almost nonstop.

-Awesome music (best in the series for me). If only it wasn't in cheap MIDI form.
-Interesting and fresh dungeon designs such as City in the Sky and that Snowpeak dungeon.
-Midna - the best written Zelda companion by far. And her music...hnng.
-Bosses weren't difficult, but at least had cool designs and looked threatening.
-Epic grand finale with

Spoiler

multiple bosses and forms. I say the more, the merrier.

-Hyrule Castle Town actually felt alive unlike any town in SS.
-WOLF Link. 'Nuff said.
-Hidden moves to unlock


I enjoyed Skyward Sword as well, but was not a fan of its cutesy enemy and boss designs (Mike Wazowski boss I'm looking at you), backtracking, dead-looking towns and overworld, and music. And fuck Fi.

 

[RagnarokX]

So what? A light constantly blinking is annoying. On top of everything else annoying about the character and the game.

It's strange that this happens even with the Pro HUD with nothing to stop it unless you select her or solve her problem. The icon isn't always there unless Fi wants to annoy you which breaks the pro hud.

I'm not sure what you're trying to prove by bringing up older games. It's not as though shitty aspects of older games excuses this.

Her pulsating icon isn't super attention-grabbing, though, and the beeps aren't ear-splitting like in past Zelda games.

Midna's icon is always there because you don't even have an option to get rid of the HUD.

I bring up older games because this game is comparatively better... It doesn't excuse it, but it makes complaining about it as if it is worse strange.

 

[Kevtones]

Both are a lot better than Wind Waker at least.

 

[WrenchNinja]

Her pulsating icon isn't super attention-grabbing, though, and the beeps aren't ear-splitting like in past Zelda games.

I disagree, I wouldn't be complaining about it if it wasn't so. Maybe you can tune it out but I cannot. It's like a constant buzzing in my ears and smudge on my glasses.

 

[CassSept]

Her pulsating icon isn't super attention-grabbing, though, and the beeps aren't ear-splitting like in past Zelda games.

Midna's icon is always there because you don't even have an option to get rid of the HUD.

I bring up older games because this game is comparatively better... It doesn't excuse it, but it makes complaining about it as if it is worse strange.

I'd agree about this one, it's a minor icon in the very corner of the screen, but it's kinda annoying in subconscious kind of way. Like a minor spot on something that infuriates you and you can't stop thinking about it, even though it's barely visible. I remember it annoyed me because it stayed there for several hours, I played for at least 4-5 hours after I got the message first.

I was just searching around for some old post of mine to check something and I came upon a post from SS OT, seems on my first playthrough, before street date, going mostly blind, I managed to reach the first temple in 2 hours 20 minutes. People that compare TP and SS intros seriously should replay the part. I'm thinking about timing intros when I replay the series this year, should be interesting).

 

[RagnarokX]

I disagree, I wouldn't be complaining about it if it wasn't so. Maybe you can tune it out but I cannot. It's like a constant buzzing in my ears and smudge on my glasses.

Shouldn't

still be preferable to

?

With the pro HUD Fi's icon goes away completely when she doesn't want to talk to you, while in TP you're stuck with the full HUD the whole time. Plus when Midna wants to talk to you she not only pulsates and beeps, she also puts up a prompt on the bottom of the screen.

I'd agree about this one, it's a minor icon in the very corner of the screen, but it's kinda annoying in subconscious kind of way. Like a minor spot on something that infuriates you and you can't stop thinking about it, even though it's barely visible. I remember it annoyed me because it stayed there for several hours, I played for at least 4-5 hours after I got the message first.

I was just searching around for some old post of mine to check something and I came upon a post from SS OT, seems on my first playthrough, before street date, going mostly blind, I managed to reach the first temple in 2 hours 20 minutes. People that compare TP and SS intros seriously should replay the part. I'm thinking about timing intros when I replay the series this year, should be interesting).

Whenever it happened I just changed the batteries. I had a rotation of batteries always on the charger so it wasn't a big deal. I don't remember getting battery warnings that often, though, and when I did I probably didn't get that annoyed by it since that was just a problem that Wii games had in general.

 

[Veelk]

With the pro HUD Fi's icon goes away completely when she doesn't want to talk to you, while in TP you're stuck with the full HUD the whole time. Plus when Midna wants to talk to you she not only pulsates and beeps, she also puts up a prompt on the bottom of the screen.

I think the big message that you are missing from this is that it is not a matter of quantity or even obstrusiveness that Fi brings. It's that she fucking sucks.

Fi doesn't help. Ever. One of the biggest sticking points in SS for me was that Fi will constantly interrupt your gameplay to tell you the most obvious thing, but when I did need her help, she had nothing to offer. And when she does, she has the slowest possible text crawl, that is only sped up by the A button the slightest, tiniest bit.

I won't say too much on Midna, because I played the game a very long time ago and don't recall too much in the way of specifics. But I never dreaded Midna's interactions. Maybe her help was obvious, or would be obvious now since I am now a more experienced gamer.

I played OOT for the first time not too long ago, and even Navi was better than Fi. Yes, her interuptions to go to the place you are already going did grate, but even at their worst, they last a few seconds because of the fast text before you move on. I would rather have Navi any day over Fi.

But I know Midna actually did genuinely help atleast a few times. She was funny and her character charming. Midna interupting you wasn't inevitably a negative experience. Because of those things, Midna interrupting you 5 times, and it'd be less intrusive and a smaller detriment to your experience than Fi doing it once would.

 

[Gestahl]

TP was massively disappointing but at least I finished it. SS was just a miserable experience for the 3 dungeons worth I played it.

And there is no cycle, the games have just been getting gradually shittier since Wind Waker

 

[RagnarokX]

I think the big message that you are missing from this is that it is not a matter of quantity or even obstrusiveness that Fi brings. It's that she fucking sucks.

Fi doesn't help. Ever. One of the biggest sticking points in SS for me was that Fi will constantly interrupt your gameplay to tell you the most obvious thing, but when I did need her help, she had nothing to offer. And when she does, she has the slowest possible text crawl, that is only sped up by the A button the slightest, tiniest bit.

I won't say too much on Midna, because I played the game a very long time ago and don't recall too much in the way of specifics. But I never dreaded Midna's interactions. Maybe her help was obvious, or would be obvious now since I am now a more experienced gamer.

But I know Midna actually did genuinely help atleast a few times. She was funny and her character charming. Fi is none of these things, and Midna interrupting you 5 times is less intrusive than Fi doing it once.

Well, this discussion is about the obtrusiveness of the HUD, so...

And Midna isn't more helpful than Fi. She interrupts you more to tell you shit that's just as obvious. Reminding you to use your wolf senses. Reminding you of where you're going. Giving you hints you don't need.

Twilight Princess: Lanayru Province:

1. You enter the twilight-covered Lanayru Province and Midna reminds you she has to help you, reminds you what you are looking for, and hints that there might be a plot twist coming soon.
2. Midna points out that Hyrule Castle is the castle you were at earlier and tells you the game will get harder.
3. Midna tells you the bridge smells funny, tells you you are trapped when the bridge is on fire, then remarks on how small Lake Hylia is when you jump into it and reminds you you are looking for the spirit's spring.
4. Midna takes control of a bird monster and tells you you can use it to reach Upper Zora's River.
5. Midna tells you that bird sure was useful and reminds you to look for the village of the Zoras. Hints that it's getting cold.
6. Midna points out that the Zora village that is frozen is in fact frozen.
7. Midna tells you you need to warp and find a way to melt the ice.
8. Midna tells you the Zoras are now safe and that you should leave.
9. After being told that you will be given the ability to swim by Queen Rutela if you help her, Midna reminds you that she just told you that she will grant you the ability to swim if you help her.
10. Midna tells you that the water current is extra fast due to the melted ice and will take you straight to Lake Hylia.
11. Midna tells you you are right in front of the spirit's spring.
12. Midna points out that the last tear of light has shown up on the map and it's different from the rest.
13. Upon leaving Lake Hylia, Midna reminds you that you need to help Queen Rutela find her son because the fused shadow is at the bottom of Lake Hylia.
14. After getting the Zora Armor, Midna reminds you that the last fused shadow is at the bottom of Lake Hylia.
15. Midna pops up in the dungeon to tell you you can knock down stalactites.

Skyward Sword: Lanayru Desert:

1. You land and Fi tells you Zelda was here and doesn't tell you where to go. You can dowse if you get lost.
2. After navigating the mines completely on your own and reaching Lanayru Desert, Fi pops up again to tell you that quicksand is dangerous and you might want to check your map to see what kind of terrain is what, and the leaves you to figure out where to go. Doesn't tell you where to go.
3. Once you reach the temple and find the door blocked, a robot tells you that you can enter the temple through the mining facility and shows you on your map where that is. He changes your map to a map of the past and Fi tells you the terrain on this map is different from the terrain in the present.
4. Upon stepping on a safe path hidden below the quicksand, Fi pops up to tell you you can place beacons on submerged walkways in the quicksand by checking your map and upgrades your beacons so you can place more.
5. Upon finding out you need to activate 3 generators, Fi tells you you can dowse for the generators you need to find.
6. Once you find all 3 she tells you to return to the dial. If you fail to figure out the puzzle in your first try she gives you a hint.
7. In the dungeon Fi tells you that the boss door is important.

Who is being more helpful here? Midna keeps popping up just to remind you of where you are going. Fi does that less here, and does more helpful stuff like updating your dowsing targets and upgrading your beacons.

Also, while I don't disagree that Midna is a better character, I think people greatly misunderstand Fi. She's funny in that her estimates are ridiculous, and the commentary she gives you based on certain text wheel options are funny as well. She gives you an estimate of 85% that a chest that looks like all of the other chests that contain boss keys will have a boss key. That was meant to be humorous, but people took it serious instead. Try catching a fairy in the bug net, or ask Fi if a Kikwi is Zelda.

 

[Zoolader]

Not that I want to defend Twilight Princess but if you are going to post pictures of the hud atleast use the superior version.

 

[zeldablue]

Not that I want to defend Twilight Princess but if you are going to post pictures of the hud atleast use the superior version.

Those HD textures are niiiiice.

 

[EhoaVash]

Both games are better than that turd wind waker

 

[MCee]

I'd pick SS over TP. Story, bosses, dungeons, gameplay, art, all lean toward Skyward for me

 

[Veelk]

Well, this discussion is about the obtrusiveness of the HUD, so...

And Midna isn't more helpful than Fi. She interrupts you more to tell you shit that's just as obvious. Reminding you to use your wolf senses. Reminding you of where you're going. Giving you hints you don't need.

Who is being more helpful here? Midna keeps popping up just to remind you of where you are going. Fi does that less here, and does more helpful stuff like updating your dowsing targets and upgrading your beacons.

Also, while I don't disagree that Midna is a better character, I think people greatly misunderstand Fi. She's funny in that her estimates are ridiculous, and the commentary she gives you based on certain text wheel options are funny as well. She gives you an estimate of 85% that a chest that looks like all of the other chests that contain boss keys will have a boss key. That was meant to be humorous, but people took it serious instead. Try catching a fairy in the bug net, or ask Fi if a Kikwi is Zelda.

I am not going to read those as I plan to replay TP sometime this year, so I don't really want to review the stuff before I do. I'll probably make a topic once I do and we can debate the helpfulness of Midna vs Fi there. I admitted upfront that I don't have specific memories, and I could have just been a worse gamer 8 years ago. I'm just telling you my experience, and the experience of those I heard. That is that Midna was actually likable, and that she did give relevant information. And even if Fi somehow did it less than Midna with less obvious information (something I doubt because I recall she actually did help me out where as Fi never did, but again, long time ago), I can tell you that Fi fundamentally annoyed me a whole lot more than Midna ever did (and I've heard similar responses to others). Even when TP was the goto punching bag, midna was one thing people liked about it. Fi is insufferable, and thus her interuptions and 'suggestions' are less appreciated.

Fi's estimates really weren't funny. The fact that they were attempted jokes is not lost on me, they just weren't very funny. Especially since they were the same joke told over and over over 40 hours. Pick a high or low number of a likely or unlikely thing happening or being. That's the joke, now repeat it 500 times, without variation except on subject matter. And I did ask if the Kikwi was Zelda. "There is a 95% chance the Kikwi is not Zelda" Oh yeah, nearly pissed myself laughing at that one, for sure.


I feel you are trying to scientifically measure 'annoyingness' by counting instances to 'prove' Fi isn't that bad, but it's not about that. As I said before, Fi could have 1/2 of the number of interuptions that Midna did, but because Midna is just a flat out better character, her interruptions, even if I suppose they are equally obvious or intrusive, are still going to be more appreciated than listening to Fi. It's a very subjective thing and you're not going to ever prove anyone wrong about Fi being more annoying using scientific measurements.

Though I will go over the SS 'helpful' suggestions.

Skyward Sword: Lanayru Desert:

1. You land and Fi tells you Zelda was here and doesn't tell you where to go. You can dowse if you get lost.
2. After navigating the mines completely on your own and reaching Lanayru Desert, Fi pops up again to tell you that quicksand is dangerous and you might want to check your map to see what kind of terrain is what, and the leaves you to figure out where to go. Doesn't tell you where to go.
3. Once you reach the temple and find the door blocked, a robot tells you that you can enter the temple through the mining facility and shows you on your map where that is. He changes your map to a map of the past and Fi tells you the terrain on this map is different from the terrain in the present.
4. Upon stepping on a safe path hidden below the quicksand, Fi pops up to tell you you can place beacons on submerged walkways in the quicksand by checking your map and upgrades your beacons so you can place more.
5. Upon finding out you need to activate 3 generators, Fi tells you you can dowse for the generators you need to find.
6. Once you find all 3 she tells you to return to the dial. If you fail to figure out the puzzle in your first try she gives you a hint.
7. In the dungeon Fi tells you that the boss door is important.

1. Considering we are following Zelda at pretty much all points of the game, I think it's something I'd already know.
2. Quicksand is dangerous, as opposed to the ordinarily healthy quicksand that replenishes your life. Totally needed that clarified.
3. The fact that it is front the past, and it has been established that land changes in the past, and that the map itself looks different, Fi's comment is unnecessary.
4. Again, beacons have been a used for a while before, and it would have been a clever thing for the player to figure out on their own, so her comment is detrimental to the game experience here. Also, I remember being pissed at her for not giving me as many beacons as she could from the get go. What the fuck was she holding out for?
5. Dowsing is the thing finder?! Oh, thank god she reminded me. Otherwise, I'd have forgotten what dowsing...wait, what does dowsing do again? I forgot
6. Again, this is supposed to be good help? You fail once, and "OKAY OKAY, DON"T GET MAD, HERE"S THE ANSWER" And again, I remember already knowing I was supposed to return to the dial. That's what the point of the generators was, to activate the thing. Why would I activate the generations and then not return to the thing they are powering?
7. That's the one that struck me most the entire game. Boss door, the one that has obviously held bosses and thus the end of the level, for the last several dungeons, is important? No shit.


Fi was never helpful to me. Not one instance in the whole fucking game. And there were times I needed help, but those were the ones she conveniently decided to keep her mouth shut. I know this wasn't the case with Midna back then. And when I replay TP, if she manages to be genuinely helpful just the 1 time, that alone will vindicate her.

 

[sphinx]

I believe the best dungeon out of those in TP and SS is Arbiter Grounds, everything looks great and they really nailed the egyptian theme. Also great Boss fight, easy but badass.

 

[H2intensity]

Skyward Sword >> Twilight Princess for me. I think its because i always see Zelda as a puzzle game not some exploration game and Skyward Sword world is a big puzzle waiting to solve and i really really like the motion control, it feels so natural and add a lot to puzzle elements.
The only minor things i think need to improve in Skyward Sword is the skyworld which too small but for me its just an additional content.

Skyward music also much much better than Twilight Princess which i dont remember anything at all. Ballad of the Goddess is one of the best song in video game in my opinion.

Graphic style, Skyward Sword > Twilight Princess, well for me Cell-shading Zelda is always better than realistic Zelda.

 

[RagnarokX]

Not that I want to defend Twilight Princess but if you are going to post pictures of the hud atleast use the superior version.

It's still more cluttered than the SS pro hud, and when Midna wants to talk to you it still puts a prompt on the bottom of the screen.

 

[WrenchNinja]

Shouldn't

still be preferable to

?

With the pro HUD Fi's icon goes away completely when she doesn't want to talk to you, while in TP you're stuck with the full HUD the whole time. Plus when Midna wants to talk to you she not only pulsates and beeps, she also puts up a prompt on the bottom of the screen.


Whenever it happened I just changed the batteries. I had a rotation of batteries always on the charger so it wasn't a big deal. I don't remember getting battery warnings that often, though, and when I did I probably didn't get that annoyed by it since that was just a problem that Wii games had in general.

I don't like Midna either so I don't know what you're trying to do here.

 

[Who]

I will have to give the edge to SS but both are my least favorite entries in the series.

Twilight Princess had so much unnecessary filler and I have ADD

 

[Easy_D]

I can't wait to see how this all goes with the New Zelda game :/

I liked both, I do think Skyward Sword tells a better tale and I really enjoyed the Dungeons. Twilight Princess to me felt like a "Best Of" for all the previous Zelda games leading up to.

I think a simpler explanation is that people who dislike something always make their voice heard.

So people who liked Wind Waker didn't make as much noise as the people who disliked it.

Then comes Twilight Princess, people who liked it didn't make as much noise as the people who disliked it. Etc.

 

[nordique]

At the time, I really liked Skyward Sword - much better than Twilight

But in hindsight, I enjoyed Twilight more


Twilight I sped through, wish I gave it more love

 

[RagnarokX]

I am not going to read those as I plan to replay TP sometime this year, so I don't really want to review the stuff before I do. I'll probably make a topic once I do and we can debate the helpfulness of Midna vs Fi there. I admitted upfront that I don't have specific memories, and I could have just been a worse gamer 8 years ago. I'm just telling you my experience, and the experience of those I heard. That is that Midna was actually likable, and that she did give relevant information. And even if Fi somehow did it less than Midna with less obvious information (something I doubt because I recall she actually did help me out where as Fi never did, but again, long time ago), I can tell you that Fi fundamentally annoyed me a whole lot more than Midna ever did (and I've heard similar responses to others). Even when TP was the goto punching bag, midna was one thing people liked about it. Fi is insufferable, and thus her interuptions and 'suggestions' are less appreciated.

Fi's estimates really weren't funny. The fact that they were attempted jokes is not lost on me, they just weren't very funny. Especially since they were the same joke told over and over over 40 hours. Pick a high or low number of a likely or unlikely thing happening or being. That's the joke, now repeat it 500 times, without variation except on subject matter. And I did ask if the Kikwi was Zelda. "There is a 95% chance the Kikwi is not Zelda" Oh yeah, nearly pissed myself laughing at that one, for sure.


I feel you are trying to scientifically measure 'annoyingness' by counting instances to 'prove' Fi isn't that bad, but it's not about that. As I said before, Fi could have 1/2 of the number of interuptions that Midna did, but because Midna is just a flat out better character, her interruptions, even if I suppose they are equally obvious or intrusive, are still going to be more appreciated than listening to Fi. It's a very subjective thing and you're not going to ever prove anyone wrong about Fi being more annoying using scientific measurements.

Though I will go over the SS 'helpful' suggestions.



1. Considering we are following Zelda at pretty much all points of the game, I think it's something I'd already know.
2. Quicksand is dangerous, as opposed to the ordinarily healthy quicksand that replenishes your life. Totally needed that clarified.
3. The fact that it is front the past, and it has been established that land changes in the past, and that the map itself looks different, Fi's comment is unnecessary.
4. Again, beacons have been a used for a while before, and it would have been a clever thing for the player to figure out on their own, so her comment is detrimental to the game experience here. Also, I remember being pissed at her for not giving me as many beacons as she could from the get go. What the fuck was she holding out for?
5. Dowsing is the thing finder?! Oh, thank god she reminded me. Otherwise, I'd have forgotten what dowsing...wait, what does dowsing do again? I forgot
6. Again, this is supposed to be good help? You fail once, and "OKAY OKAY, DON"T GET MAD, HERE"S THE ANSWER" And again, I remember already knowing I was supposed to return to the dial. That's what the point of the generators was, to activate the thing. Why would I activate the generations and then not return to the thing they are powering?
7. That's the one that struck me most the entire game. Boss door, the one that has obviously held bosses and thus the end of the level, for the last several dungeons, is important? No shit.


Fi was never helpful to me. Not one instance in the whole fucking game. And there were times I needed help, but those were the ones she conveniently decided to keep her mouth shut. I know this wasn't the case with Midna back then. And when I replay TP, if she manages to be genuinely helpful just the 1 time, that alone will vindicate her.

"I don't remember anything about what you're talking about and won't read any evidence but you're wrong" isn't a very good argument. The conversation was about how obtrusive Fi was versus other helpers, which is something that can be objectively measured. If you don't like Fi's character, fine. That's a subjective thing. As I stated before I also feel that Midna is a much better character. But people throw around things like "hand holding" and "tutorials". These are things we can measure objectively, and based on the data Midna/TP comes out worse in that regard. Which one interrupts you more? Which one tells you where to go and what to do more? Which one interrupts you for more pointless reasons? Midna. What's the point of arguing a side if you're not even going to weigh the evidence? You yourself threw in something that can be objectively measured. You said that Fi does nothing helpful and Midna is helpful.

First we can look at Fi, as you already have:

1. This is an introduction to the area. It gives a little bit of lore about the region while doing a sweeping camera overview. Fi reminds you that you can dowse if you need to. Twilight Princess does this, too. Typical Zelda stuff.
2. This is the introduction to the next area. Fi gives a bit more info about the area and tells you to check your map to avoid quicksand.
3. This is actually a very important clue and very helpful. Fi tells you that the past map is inconsistent with the present geography. Using this info you can figure out how to cross the quicksand.
4. After stepping onto a platform hidden in the quicksand, Fi updates your beacons so that you can place a bunch of them. Very helpful for navigating the quicksand without having to check the map repeatedly. The player does get to figure it out on their own so I don't know what you're complaining about.
5. This isn't a reminder. She updates your dowsing targets so that you can dowse to find the generators, which is pretty helpful in finding them. This is no different from updating your scents as a wolf in TP or using Midna's warp abilities to move missing objects around the world map.
6. I looked at the text dump to see exactly what hint she gives you and she says "The symbols on this power generator correspond to the symbols on the three remote power nodes you activated. Logic suggests that they are connected." She doesn't just give you the answer. You still have to figure out that the generator represents the map. Really I shouldn't have included this since it is optional.
7. I think this one is actually a mistake. You see, when you first encounter the boss door it is heavily obscured by barbed wire and it might be hard to tell that it's actually a door. If you approach the door Fi will point it out. The problem is that if you do not approach the door before you move the timeshift stone near it and get rid of the barbed wire, Fi will still pop out and point out the door even though it's clearly visible now. She does this in Sand Ship as well because the boss door is similarly obscured by barbed wire.

Helpful:

Not so much:

This is the first time she points out a boss door, so it's extremely doubtful the intent is to treat the player like an idiot. They should have made the trigger for Fi disappear once the door becomes accessible or increased the area of the trigger so that players would be sure to trigger it before moving the timeshift stone.

So on to Midna. I'll try to keep these vague so you'll actually read them.

1. Midna reminds you of your objective, which hasn't changed since the last 2 dungeons. Why is Fi telling you you're on the right track looking for Zelda bad but this is okay?
2. Midna points out something obvious.
3. Midna initiates a cutscene and then tells you to escape. Then she points out something obvious about the environment.
4. Midna introduces a useful gameplay mechanic for getting to the next area.
5. Midna comments on the useful mechanic you just used gives a vague hint about where to go next or comment about the area. There is only one place you can go.
6. Midna points out something obvious about the environment.
7. Midna tells you to use her warp ability to find something you can use.
8. Midna tells you to leave the area.
9. Midna repeats what an NPC just told you.
10. Midna tells you that jumping in the water will warp you back to where you want to go.
11. Midna tells you you are in front of the place you are in front of.
12. Midna points out something on your map.
13. When you leave to complete your next objective, Midna reminds you what that objective is and your main objective and destination.
14. After completing that objective, Midna reminds you of your main objective and where to go.
15. Midna tells you an important dungeon mechanic as soon as you enter a room without giving you a chance to figure it out yourself.

I'd say they are about equally as helpful, to be honest. They both introduce and update important mechanics that they are in charge of. You have to go through Fi for updating dowsing targets and upgrading beacons (which is really only used in that area). You have to go through Midna for that one mechanic for that area and warping and wolf jumping. Midna just talks a lot more and tells you where to go and what to do more, which is the kind of stuff people say they don't like.

 

[Nickle]

I am not going to read those as I plan to replay TP sometime this year, so I don't really want to review the stuff before I do. I'll probably make a topic once I do and we can debate the helpfulness of Midna vs Fi there. I admitted upfront that I don't have specific memories, and I could have just been a worse gamer 8 years ago. I'm just telling you my experience, and the experience of those I heard. That is that Midna was actually likable, and that she did give relevant information. And even if Fi somehow did it less than Midna with less obvious information (something I doubt because I recall she actually did help me out where as Fi never did, but again, long time ago), I can tell you that Fi fundamentally annoyed me a whole lot more than Midna ever did (and I've heard similar responses to others). Even when TP was the goto punching bag, midna was one thing people liked about it. Fi is insufferable, and thus her interuptions and 'suggestions' are less appreciated.

Fi's estimates really weren't funny. The fact that they were attempted jokes is not lost on me, they just weren't very funny. Especially since they were the same joke told over and over over 40 hours. Pick a high or low number of a likely or unlikely thing happening or being. That's the joke, now repeat it 500 times, without variation except on subject matter. And I did ask if the Kikwi was Zelda. "There is a 95% chance the Kikwi is not Zelda" Oh yeah, nearly pissed myself laughing at that one, for sure.


I feel you are trying to scientifically measure 'annoyingness' by counting instances to 'prove' Fi isn't that bad, but it's not about that. As I said before, Fi could have 1/2 of the number of interuptions that Midna did, but because Midna is just a flat out better character, her interruptions, even if I suppose they are equally obvious or intrusive, are still going to be more appreciated than listening to Fi. It's a very subjective thing and you're not going to ever prove anyone wrong about Fi being more annoying using scientific measurements.

Though I will go over the SS 'helpful' suggestions.



1. Considering we are following Zelda at pretty much all points of the game, I think it's something I'd already know.
2. Quicksand is dangerous, as opposed to the ordinarily healthy quicksand that replenishes your life. Totally needed that clarified.
3. The fact that it is front the past, and it has been established that land changes in the past, and that the map itself looks different, Fi's comment is unnecessary.
4. Again, beacons have been a used for a while before, and it would have been a clever thing for the player to figure out on their own, so her comment is detrimental to the game experience here. Also, I remember being pissed at her for not giving me as many beacons as she could from the get go. What the fuck was she holding out for?
5. Dowsing is the thing finder?! Oh, thank god she reminded me. Otherwise, I'd have forgotten what dowsing...wait, what does dowsing do again? I forgot
6. Again, this is supposed to be good help? You fail once, and "OKAY OKAY, DON"T GET MAD, HERE"S THE ANSWER" And again, I remember already knowing I was supposed to return to the dial. That's what the point of the generators was, to activate the thing. Why would I activate the generations and then not return to the thing they are powering?
7. That's the one that struck me most the entire game. Boss door, the one that has obviously held bosses and thus the end of the level, for the last several dungeons, is important? No shit.


Fi was never helpful to me. Not one instance in the whole fucking game. And there were times I needed help, but those were the ones she conveniently decided to keep her mouth shut. I know this wasn't the case with Midna back then. And when I replay TP, if she manages to be genuinely helpful just the 1 time, that alone will vindicate her.

I totally agree with this.

Every game tells you what to do at some point, some just hide it much better then others. Twilight Princess may have actually had more instances of hand holding than Skyward Sword, but it sure as hell didn't feel that way. Even if Midna spoiled 3 times the puzzles that Fi did, I would notice Fi's interruptions more because she is so blunt about it: "HEY MASTER I THINK THAT THE THING YOU'RE HOLDING IS A KEY. I KNOW THIS IS ALREADY THE 4th DUNGEON BUT I THOUGHT I'D JUST REMIND YOU INCASE YOU WERE DROPPED ON YOUR HEAD SINCE YOU LAST BEAT THE 3rd DUNGEON A DAYS AGO." When Midna interrupted I felt like I was interrupted by the words of an actual character, not the words of the developers who think I am inept.

 

[MisterGrey3000]

I think a simpler explanation is that people who dislike something always make their voice heard.

So people who liked Wind Waker didn't make as much noise as the people who disliked it.

Then comes Twilight Princess, people who liked it didn't make as much noise as the people who disliked it. Etc.

I actually think it's even simpler than that.
Negativity in a sea of positivity is always gonna stand out, period.
I don't think people realize how "influential" (for the lack of a better word) negative vocal minorities can be in enthusiast spaces, especially when they're given a huge amount of time to be both negative and vocal.

I remember a lot of people loving both Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword when they were first released; they got tons of praise from both critics and general consumers, they scored 90+ ratings on the major aggregate sites, they both received a good number of GOTY nominations from both critics and "readers" alike, and they actually managed to take home a dozen or so of those GOTY awards.
These games were and still are incredibly well-received, I'm pretty sure most designers dream of garnering the kind of praise and accolades that these two games got and still get.
The problem starts when the people who adored these games start to move on and find something else to talk about, it sort of leaves a huge hole in the wider conversation and negative opinions quickly begin to fill it. I feel like it's much easier to be secure in a positive opinion than it is to be in a negative one, I've noticed that a lot of people with negative opinions often lash out as angrily and defensively as they can whenever they get the chance; it's almost as if they have something to prove because they're going against the grain.

Edit: I think the conversation will change completely once 7th gen kids who become young adults begin to flood into enthusiast spaces.

 

[zogged]

For me SS wins in terms of combat (from the sounds of it I was one of the few people who had no problem with tge motion controls) and for its sheer use of colour. TP's darker colour pallette and excessive use of bloom really did not stick well with me.

That said TP is definitely a superior game in every other regard and I enjoyed it far more.

 

[Silent_Ocarina]

As far as companions go, I wasn't particular bothered by either of them. I thought Fi was mildly annoying at times, but I thought she was bearable. As characters, however, Midna wins. I liked Fi's ending scene, but it would have been so much more emotional if she displayed any sort of personality throughout the game like Midna did.

At the end of the day, I'd say I enjoyed Twilight Princess more. I played when I was much younger, so I probably wasn't as critical then as I am now. I actually enjoyed the most common complaints about Twilight Princess, which were the introduction and Tears of Light segments. Skyward Sword, on the other hand, just felt disjointed to me. I liked Skyloft and the Lumpy Pumpkin, but I didn't enjoy being anywhere else. Lanayru was obviously the highlight out of all the areas, but I hated the pre-dungeon puzzles. Everything just felt claustrophobic to me and just felt like an obstacle course.

 

[RagnarokX]

I totally agree with this.

Every game tells you what to do at some point, some just hide it much better then others. Twilight Princess may have actually had more instances of hand holding than Skyward Sword, but it sure as hell didn't feel that way. Even if Midna spoiled 3 times the puzzles that Fi did, I would notice Fi's interruptions more because she is so blunt about it: "HEY MASTER I THINK THAT THE THING YOU'RE HOLDING IS A KEY. I KNOW THIS IS ALREADY THE 4th DUNGEON BUT I THOUGHT I'D JUST REMIND YOU INCASE YOU WERE DROPPED ON YOUR HEAD SINCE YOU LAST BEAT THE 3rd DUNGEON A DAYS AGO." When Midna interrupted I felt like I was interrupted by the words of an actual character, not the words of the developers who think I am inept.

Fi would be pretty bad if she actually did that...

The only time she does something remotely like that is when you obtain the sandship key:

Master, I conjecture that this is the key to the control room mentioned by the crew. My memory indicates that the location of the door to the control room is marked with the [X] symbol. I suggest you quickly make your way to the control room.

Which is bad. As I already discussed the sandship is pretty much the only dungeon where Fi gets out of hand. However, the sandship is a rather unconventional dungeon and Skyward Sword forwent Zelda staples like having boss doors marked with special symbols on the map.

The way the dungeon is structured is like Snowpeak Ruins, with people inside the dungeon giving you different objectives and updating your map. In that dungeon Midna keeps telling you to return to the yetis each time you get a soup ingredient instead of a key. And when you get the key to Snowpeak Manor the female yeti is waiting for you outside the room and offers to walk you to the door.

They're both just very different dungeons from typical dungeons, both within their own games and across the series.

 

[Guerrilla]

SS is pretty much the only Zelda I didn't play yet but TP was awesome imo.
I really want to play SS, however, I was hoping for an HD Remaster but that seems to be a pipe dream atm. 480 just looks so bad on a big screen . I only got an AMD Phenom II X4 955 and a GTX660ti so dolphin probably won't be an option right?

I guess I shouldn't hold out any longer and start to play it on wiiu...

 

[ArchedThunder]

Fi would be pretty bad if she actually did that...

The only time she does something remotely like that is when you obtain the sandship key:

Master, I conjecture that this is the key to the control room mentioned by the crew. My memory indicates that the location of the door to the control room is marked with the [X] symbol. I suggest you quickly make your way to the control room.

Which is bad. As I already discussed the sandship is pretty much the only dungeon where Fi gets out of hand. However, the sandship is a rather unconventional dungeon and Skyward Sword forwent Zelda staples like having boss doors marked with special symbols on the map.

The way the dungeon is structured is like Snowpeak Ruins, with people inside the dungeon giving you different objectives and updating your map. In that dungeon Midna keeps telling you to return to the yetis each time you get a soup ingredient instead of a key. And when you get the key to Snowpeak Manor the female yeti is waiting for you outside the room and offers to walk you to the door.

They're both just very different dungeons from typical dungeons, both within their own games and across the series.

Yeah, I don't get why people try to act like Fi is the worst thing ever, even when presented with evidence that she isn't worse than Midna. I also really hate the argument that Midna "feels more like a real person", Fi is supposed to feel like a computer program, an AI, and her story is about her growth into something more. People who say that she's a bad character because she doesn't feel like a real person completely missed the point of her character. If you find her constant use of percentages annoying that's fine, but it served a purpose in the story.

 

[Beerman462]

Twilight wins for having a Game Cube version that uses a real controller, plus all the OP stuff.

 

[Nickle]

Yeah, I don't get why people try to act like Fi is the worst thing ever, even when presented with evidence that she isn't worse than Midna. I also really hate the argument that Midna "feels more like a real person", Fi is supposed to feel like a computer program, an AI, and her story is about her growth into something more. People who say that she's a bad character because she doesn't feel like a real person completely missed the point of her character. If you find her constant use of percentages annoying that's fine, but it served a purpose in the story.

So I shouldn't complain if a character is supposed to be annoying? I'm sorry, but that's ridiculous. Superman 64 doesn't suddenly become an amazing game if I find out that the developers were intentionally trying to make a terrible game.

 

[TI82]

Yeah, I don't get why people try to act like Fi is the worst thing ever, even when presented with evidence that she isn't worse than Midna. I also really hate the argument that Midna "feels more like a real person", Fi is supposed to feel like a computer program, an AI, and her story is about her growth into something more. People who say that she's a bad character because she doesn't feel like a real person completely missed the point of her character. If you find her constant use of percentages annoying that's fine, but it served a purpose in the story.

"See guys! She was annoying on purpose she's a computer program!!!! That's so deep and meaningful and not counter intuitive at all to the point of a nintendo game which tells storylines and character development plot points noticeably poorly!!!"

 

[KojiKnight]

SS is pretty much the only Zelda I didn't play yet but TP was awesome imo.
I really want to play SS, however, I was hoping for an HD Remaster but that seems to be a pipe dream atm. 480 just looks so bad on a big screen . I only got an AMD Phenom II X4 955 and a GTX660ti so dolphin probably won't be an option right?

I guess I shouldn't hold out any longer and start to play it on wiiu...

I can play it full speed on my 6300FX at stock. Not sure what the 955 is stock, but it might very well be worth a try. Dolphin is a lot faster these days.

 

[MrSaturn99]

I am seriously confounded as to why anyone would defend Fi.

 

[ArchedThunder]

So I shouldn't complain if a character is supposed to be annoying? I'm sorry, but that's ridiculous. Superman 64 doesn't suddenly become an amazing game if I find out that the developers were intentionally trying to make a terrible game.

That's a fucking pull, just ignore the fact that I said it's okay that you find her annoying, but it served a purpose. Not only does it show what she is and serve as a ground for her growth, but it pushes forward what they were heavily implying about the old world. And I never said she was supposed to be annoying, I said that the argument that she is a bad character because she doesn't feel like a real person is a bad one because she isn't a person and she wasn't supposed to be.

I am seriously confounded as to why anyone would defend Fi.

Because I like her as a character. Unlike most I liked her speaking style and I love her character arc of growing from something mechanical to someone with feelings, and the tragedy of how it all ends makes it that much more impactful.

 

[Silent_Ocarina]

Because I like her as a character. Unlike most I liked her speaking style and I love her character arc of growing from something mechanical to someone with feelings, and the tragedy of how it all ends makes it that much more impactful.

But I personally felt no attachment to her. I did not see any growth to her character at all during the game. Her ending was meant to show how much she learned and changed, but having it all at the end with no progression throughout the game made it fall flat in my opinion.

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

That's a fucking pull, just ignore the fact that I said it's okay that you find her annoying, but it served a purpose. Not only does it show what she is, but it pushes forward why they were heavily implying about the old world.


Because I like her as a character. Unlike most I liked her speaking style and I love her character arc of growing from something mechanical to someone with feelings, and the tragedy of how it all ends makes it that much more impactful.

Finally somebody with my exact feelings

 

[Guerrilla]

I can play it full speed on my 6300FX at stock. Not sure what the 955 is stock, but it might very well be worth a try. Dolphin is a lot faster these days.

Okay, will give it a try, thx! are there any bugs i'm bound to encounter, or is it smooth sailing?

 

[MrSaturn99]

Because I like her as a character. Unlike most I liked her speaking style and I love her character arc of growing from something mechanical to someone with feelings, and the tragedy of how it all ends makes it that much more impactful.

What character arc?

 

[MisterGrey3000]

I am seriously confounded as to why anyone would defend Fi.

There is nothing to be dumbfounded by; some people liked her characterization and story arc while some people didn't. Some people were bothered by her hints and some people (like myself) barely noticed or didn't care at all.
It's not that hard to understand.