Not my experience really, I think my friends were about 50/50 on this. Some felt that Europe gained too much from Turkey joining, and some wanted Turkey in the EU so they could travel/study/work in other countries easily.
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Twitter website 'blocked' in Turkey
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Not my experience really, I think my friends were about 50/50 on this. Some felt that Europe gained too much from Turkey joining, and some wanted Turkey in the EU so they could travel/study/work in other countries easily.
To be fair, at this point I think most members of the EU wish they could have the freedom to travel and work in the other nations and...none of the rest of it.
Bedameister
Member
Erdogan needs to go. I hope this will happen soon. This is just stupid and crazy.
Atraveller
Banned
Did you achieve that on your own?
PjotrStroganov
Member
Hey it's all cool with me, I'm proud of all of our heritages. I even see the Ancient Greek stuff as part of our heritage too. Smite the vile dictator oh mighty Athene!
I'm quite ignorant when it comes to the history of Turkey but Isn't one of the criticisms of Atatürk that his nationalistic ideas ostracized certain ethnic groups? I'm not looking for a debate, but I saw you mentioning him while also being proud of your different ancestral forefathers. It struck me as a bit contradictory.
Very much so. It is a defining trait (alongside militarism) of Turkish nationalist movements from the (greatly romanticised in the west) CUP to their Kemalist descendents.
The policies of Turkification and centralisation during CUP rule in the Ottoman era led to breakdown in relations with other groups (Armenians, Assyrians, Arabs, Greeks) and when they rebelled we got massacres. Cemal Pasha is known as the butcher for a reason. The republic continued in the same vain against the Kurds.
And while we remember the savagery of the Turks let's also remember the savagery of the Christians that massacred Turks during the breakdown of the empire.
Interviews with Turkish students re: ban:
http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26681236
http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26681236
RustyNails
Member
Dont believe everything you read on the internet, but someone on reddit mentioned that the corruption exposers plan on releasing sex tapes of some AKP politicians with mistresses very soon before March 30 elections, including sextape of Erdogan himself. Which is why Erdogan is causing a ruckus/distraction by blocking twitter to not only block the release, but also clamp down on protestors when they take the streets for further distractions.
This guy seems like a dictator.
It's suspected that he has a mistress. All the family-friendly Islamic values are bullshit to convince the sheep to follow him because he has "God" on his side.
Funny thing is how US and EU supported this bastard untill the last year. The left in Turkey were shouting of all his undemocratic changes, but not many actors in the international scene didn't question or critisize Erdogan until the last few years.
NonexistentK
Member
recently released tapes via twitter and other social sharing sites revealed that:
he's corrupt as hell (on the day that corruption investigations began, he told his son to liquidate 300mil dollars cash that he has in his house immediately)
he controls the biggest business groups through a carrot & stick strategy (carrot being the big public project contracts, stick being tax agents showing up at your door some bs reason),
directly controls all media activities (neatly %50 of all news media is owned by business groups close to him, other half is constantly under threat of legal action against them),
intervenes with the judiciary process when he pleases ( he recently removed thousands of police officers & prosecutors who was involved in corruption cases linked to him and passed laws that completely negates the separation of judiciary & executive)
so yeah he's like an Islamist Putin
No. Atatürk wasn't promoting Turkish racial nationalism. His idea of Turkishness was akin to the idea of being American. You can be of any race or background but at the end of the day you're Turkish, as in a citizen of Turkey. He was influenced by European nationalist movements and the modern nation states they created. In short he wanted to move away from the identity of being a Muslim first.
The cultural repression of Kurdish identity wasn't his creation.
This is pure propaganda that gets thrown around to tarnish Atatürk and Turkey in general. Nevermind that Atatürk wasn't a leader in the CUP, the CUP was itself an answer to the nationalist movements in Europe and among the Empire's Christian subjects.
The clashes with the conquered peoples were always going to occur regardless of the CUP's existence. The empire was weak, its enemies strong and the subjects ready to leave. Of course we can continue to paint the one sided picture of the Turkish butcher as Europeans are always ready to do, but ethnic massacres and cleansing is something the Balkan populations excelled in themselves.
And they're still not coming out and condemning him. They're in a real bind, they can't push Erdoğan over the edge, he's liable to leave the West's sphere of influence altogether as long as he can stay in power. Russia, China and Iran would embrace such a move.
And the opposition in Turkey is already anti-EU and anti-US.
As for Erdoğan, anyone, Turkish citizens especially, who wants him to lose power soon is ignoring the fact that the Turkish economy is a ticking time bomb. You don't want it to go off during opposition rule.
Let me tell you something. I am an Anatolian Greek, what you folks call "Rum". My grandfather's family was native of Tarsus, Cilicia, it is said that they had been living there for over 8 centuries. In 1923 he got the paper that said to leave the country immediately because of population exchange. He went to officials and rejected the order, he said his home was Anatolia, he couldn't even speak Greek, Turkish was his only known language. Officials said he could stay if he accepts Islam is the only true religion and Mohammad was his biggest subject. He refused and they threatened him with forced eviction. They tried but they never managed to make him leave the country. He has been subjected to discrimination for years, people pressured him to convert but he never gave in.
Ataturk never wanted to create and Islamic identity and a religious state but he did made the population more than 98% muslim and that allowed people of Anatolia to be what they are today. Incredibly relgious and stubborn. People that voted for Erdogan for 12 straight years. Vast majority of a nation believing in same religion has never been a good thing and right now Turkey is experiencing its consequences.
I've always believed that it was a pragmatic decision to reduce the chances of communal violence in both countries.
I believe it is sad that Turkey turned out that way. I would've loved to be from a country that had loads of Anatolian Greeks as well, all of us united from the same country and supporting Turkey in football and stuff.
Hell I know a Turkish-Armenian and he is just Turkish to me, I don't even consider him Armenian. That's probably what potentially Turkey and Greece could've been like without the population exchange.
India and Pakistan is another great example.
Banning twitter is one thing,... but banning porn? It's time for a revolution people.
Well UK happend the great wall of cameron is all ready in full effect. Not just banning porn lately but there banning more stuff like freedom of speech for journalist for example.
Whether or not that is true I can't say, but I believe many Westerners under-estimate the number of Westernised Turks. I've read many people on Reddit repeat things like "It's only in Istanbul, the rest of Turkey is Islamic blah blah" totally oblivious to the fact that the capital of Turkey, just as modern as Istanbul, lies in the middle of the country. And there are many other developed and modern Turkish cities too.
However I believe all of this protesting for the past year has changed that.
paradise_circus
Member
I think people think that the average voter of the akp can't be a modern citizen.
Turkey needs a political change though.
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
Unfortunately AKP has in the past gotten a lot of votes from people who are modern/western, but voted AKP because of having religious sensibilities. However it appears many of these people have woken up in the past year to what everyone else was saying for the past decade.
Porn sites have been blocked for some years now.
By the way, they just blocked Twitter again. And I think this time it's IP based.
paradise_circus
Member
And today the AKP is riding on the economical and political success achieved in the past years.
I'm aware who you are from past discussions. What you say about the population exchange isn't wrong, but you have to consider that it came at the heels of a century of almost constant Greek and Turkish fighting. Both sides engaged in widespread ethnic cleansing and massacres of each other every time they gained the upper hand. A leader other than Ataturk might have just killed the Anatolian Greeks as retribution for the failed Greek invasion, he at least was human enough to instead arrange a population exchange between Greece and Turkey.
And while it was far from optimal, you don't need to look any further than the Istanbul Progroms to see what the Greek minority would have had to deal with when bad leaders came to power.
The sad part is that plenty of modern, left-minded people voted for this jackass twice. Why? Because they thought that he was liberalizing Turkish society. Mind boggling really.
His core supporters are nowhere near 50% of the population.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
How anyone in the country could read this Victor Von Doom-esque tripe and not flip their lids is beyond me.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
Seeing on twitter they just blocked Youtube now.
DXB-KNIGHT
Member
There are rumors about Qatar following Turkey in blocking twitter.
Now they're going too far!
Yeah, BBC just reported it as well.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
So how long are we giving Erdogan?
NYCmetsfan
Banned
NYCmetsfan
Banned
from the BBC
Also there are elections Sunday
Edit: More info
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014...2Q17420140327?feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews
That's what people there want man, they don't need to know anything, all they need to know is in one book anyways.
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
We need a thread title change now.
MuzzledBasher
Member
What's AKP relation with Iran like these days? They were getting really chummy with the mullahs before the whole Syrian civil war happened and then it seemed to be in a real downward spiral, real quick.
Portugeezer
Member
Blocked Youtube now?
Wow.
Wow.
RustyNails
Member
Kinda disappointed that there were no leaks of sextapes. Oh well.
How's AKP doing in the polls?
How's AKP doing in the polls?
Around 50 % unsurprisingly
We'll know soon. The municipal elections are happening today.
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