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[cybamerc]

Messi has a growth hormone disorder and was underdeveloped as a youngster. When he came to Barcelona he was given a growth hormone treatment. Maybe still is. Different circumstances of course but it goes to show that the rules can be bent.

[edit] Also note the huge number of asthmatics in pro sports compared to the general population.

 

[Neffarias_Bredd]

Surprisingly a lot of top collegiate sprinters are PED free

 

[Acorn]

THink about that though. If science allowed one of the best players in history to stay on the field and avoid being injured on the time, should he really be demonized for taking them? Isn't that the point of medical advancements?

Its an interesting question, but in general I'm anti performance enhancing. So while I'm happy Messi has been able to grace us with his talent, if he has used performance enhancers it would sully my opinion of him. Yes he would still be the most technical gifted player since Zidane and I'd admire that.

Honestly though when he was skinny and injury prone he was like 17-20, I think he probably just naturally filled out along with working on his strength and balance.

 

[Spinluck]

You got that right.

PEDigree!!

 

[entremet]

Surprisingly a lot of top collegiate sprinters are PED free

lmao

 

[Neffarias_Bredd]

lmao

I'm serious

 

[duderon]

Like with everything else, the coverup is worse than the crime. Lance Armstrong came across as a huge piece of human shit in the way he threatened people to keep everything hush hush.




Guys who are on PEDs work their asses off too. PEDs aren't some magic beans that you take and then wake up with a six pack. For the most part, PEDs allow guys to workout harder and more often than they normally would.

I never said dopers didn't work as hard or harder than clean athletes. I'm just pointing out there are athletes that do not take drugs and bust their ass everyday and these athletes are the reason why I still care about the sport. That said, Gay testing positive is a real blow to the sport because he was an advocate against doping. He is a stand-up guy, however, and hasn't made any excuses. I hope he gives insight on what he took and tries to clear his name by undergoing more testing.

 

[entremet]

I'm serious

How do you they're PED free? The test are notoriously easy to pass.

 

[Messi]

Messi has a growth hormone disorder and was underdeveloped as a youngster. When he came to Barcelona he was given a growth hormone treatment. Maybe still is. Different circumstances of course but it goes to show that the rules can be bent.

[edit] Also note the huge number of asthmatics in pro sports compared to the general population.

It was not illegal when he came to barca. He is not on growth hormones anymore.

 

[Neffarias_Bredd]

How do you they're PED free? The test are notoriously easy to pass.

I compete and train with them. Couple kids on our team take steroids in the summer, but most runners I know are dirt poor and cant afford any of the good stuff. It's not like they have anyone telling them how to cycle or what to take, and you'd be surprised how dumb most of these guys are

There's no money in track like there is in collegiate football. It's not like agents are paying these guys in college

 

[entremet]

I compete and train with them. Couple kids on our team take steroids in the summer, but most runners I know are dirt poor and cant afford any of the good stuff. It's not like they have anyone telling them how to cycle or what to take, and you'd be surprised how dumb most of these guys are

I see. Unless you're Olympic bound there is not much money in Track, so I see can you're point. Are you talking about D1 schools, though?

 

[Neffarias_Bredd]

I see. Unless you're Olympic bound there is not much money in Track, so I see can you're point. Are you talking about D1 schools, though?

Yea, I run at a top D1 school. I'm talking about guys who will probably run in the olympics and will probably end up taking PEDs

And these guys regularly beat pros. I don't think the majority of track and field professionals take PEDs, just the best ones

 

[Rocket Scientist]

Now HGH is banned in almost all sports but Messi would never have been able to play professional football without the Injections. It's not quite steroids but yeah...

Wow... did not know this.

 

[Lamel]

Wow... did not know this.

Funny you should mention Messi because he was injected with HGH as a teenager to combat his Growth Hormone Disorder.

Now HGH is banned in almost all sports but Messi would never have been able to play professional football without the Injections. It's not quite steroids but yeah...

Yeah but for Messi it was a health issue. He had a naturally low supply produced within his body and he would not have grown if he wasn't injected. Many kids with stunted growth are given HGH; it's a hormone naturally produced in the body.

So I wouldn't count that as cheating at all.

 

[entremet]

Yea, I run at a top D1 school. I'm talking about guys who will probably run in the olympics and will probably end up taking PEDs

Sure that make sense b/c that's when money starts becoming a big goal as well--sponsorships and the like.

The thing about PEDs is that they won't make you elite. It's usually elite training, genetics, and talent plus PEDs for the extra advantage.

 

[Neffarias_Bredd]

Sure that make sense b/c that's when money starts becoming a big goal as well--sponsorships and the like.

The thing about PEDs is that they won't make you elite. It's usually elite training, genetics, and talent plus PEDs for the extra advantage.

Agreed. I'm not sure how Olympic testing works, but NCAA testing is random, and they can test you any day throughout the year. I've only been NCAA tested twice in three years, but our school tests us two times a year, usually randomly. Most guys get busted for weed

Also, caffeine is a banned NCAA substance so our trainer always tells us not to drink cofee or redbull or anything before we get tested. I'm not sure what the concentration is that's illegal, but regardless I always thought it was kind of ridiculous. Especially because if you fail an NCAA drug test you're automatically out for a year

 

[Frank the Great]

I can't believe the amount of people that want professional sport associations to embrace the drugs. The choice between a competition of who can best hide PEDs, and a competition of which athlete can afford the most expensive PEDs, is a completely false one. The real solution is to ramp up enforcement, increase testing, have disclosure of test results (or at least independent review by private, unaffiliated doctors), and other measures to make testing more effective. The fact that PEDs are so prevalent is a reason to support taking action to curtail their prevalence, it's not a reason to just give up and let associations with the most money fight each other to see who can abuse drugs the most. That's just a real shitty attitude.

If they move towards embracing PEDs, it will just mean those with the most $$$ will always win (even more-so than it already does). It will take something fundamentally human out of sport and turn it completely into a cynical capitalistic enterprise (even more-so than it already is). Not to mention the effect on young people who will be encouraged to play around with whatever drugs they can get their hands on. That's unacceptable to me and a lot of other people, which is why PEDs are still taboo and will continue to remain taboo.

 

[DJwest]

In European Football they take estrogen so that they can cry more realistically when they fake getting fouled.

I said damn

 

[FDC1]

As I said in this thread earlier,, 5 jamaicans are involved... 1 down, Powell. Bolt next?

Apparently, Powell, Sherone Simpson & Nesta Carter are some of them. They all work in the same team. For info, Bolt isn't a member of this team.

Edit: Finally, it seems Carter is not one of them

 

[TalesOfWin]

I said damn

well atleast he called it football and not soccer.

 

[entremet]

I can't believe the amount of people that want professional sport associations to embrace the drugs. The choice between a competition of who can best hide PEDs, and a competition of which athlete can afford the most expensive PEDs, is a completely false one. The real solution is to ramp up enforcement, increase testing, have disclosure of test results (or at least independent review by private, unaffiliated doctors), and other measures to make testing more effective. The fact that PEDs are so prevalent is a reason to support taking action to curtail their prevalence, it's not a reason to just give up and let associations with the most money fight each other to see who can abuse drugs the most. That's just a real shitty attitude.

If they move towards embracing PEDs, it will just mean those with the most $$$ will always win (even more-so than it already does). It will take something fundamentally human out of sport and turn it completely into a cynical capitalistic enterprise (even more-so than it already is). Not to mention the effect on young people who will be encouraged to play around with whatever drugs they can get their hands on. That's unacceptable to me and a lot of other people, which is why PEDs are still taboo and will continue to remain taboo.

Look at the countries that dominate the Olympics.

And the Olympics give you 3 tries, so it's laughably easy to not be detected.

 

[Vice]

so this guy is on PED's?

Most likely.

 

[Frank the Great]

Look at the countries that dominate the Olympics.

And the Olympics give you 3 tries, so it's laughably easy to not be detected.

And? If you're suggesting that enforcement be dramatically improved, I agree.

 

[entremet]

And? If you're suggesting that enforcement be dramatically improved, I agree.

I'm just saying that's its futile at this point.

 

[Vice]

And? If you're suggesting that enforcement be dramatically improved, I agree.

Just let everyone dope. The cheaters will always be one step ahead so right now the only people losing are the ones who try to follow the rules.

 

[Wax Free Vanilla]

More to come? Long distance cheats will be exposed tomorrow.

What have Galen Ruup and Mo Farrah been up to?

 

[Deadman]

Just please not bolt

 

[Frank the Great]

I'm just saying that's its futile at this point.

And I'm saying that's a shitty attitude. On the one hand you say the rules are laughably easy to avoid, on the other hand you say there is nothing that can be done. Why not just make the rules . . . not laughably easy to avoid? That seems like a far more desirable and ethical outcome, to me.

Just let everyone dope. The cheaters will always be one step ahead so right now the only people losing are the ones who try to follow the rules.

Why will they always be one step ahead? I don't understand this. Isn't this thread about cheaters that have been caught? Clearly enforcement works at least to some degree, wouldn't it be better to improve enforcement to catch all cheaters?

This whole argument from the pro-dopers just seems ridiculous. It's like saying we should allow drunk driving because banning it won't stop all people from drunk driving. Absurd.

 

[AstroLad]

It's all about the game, and how you play it.

gyaaah gsp really does have hgh gut. and i'm not even a hater

 

[Fergie]

Oh you

 

[Champomade]

My solution would be to forbid professional sport at a global level (so there would still be sport but only amateur) and forbid sponsorships over a certain limit (100k usd a year per athlete?).

I think it is truly the best way for Humanity going forward

 

[Champomade]

I can't believe the amount of people that want professional sport associations to embrace the drugs. The choice between a competition of who can best hide PEDs, and a competition of which athlete can afford the most expensive PEDs, is a completely false one. The real solution is to ramp up enforcement, increase testing, have disclosure of test results (or at least independent review by private, unaffiliated doctors), and other measures to make testing more effective. The fact that PEDs are so prevalent is a reason to support taking action to curtail their prevalence, it's not a reason to just give up and let associations with the most money fight each other to see who can abuse drugs the most. That's just a real shitty attitude.

If they move towards embracing PEDs, it will just mean those with the most $$$ will always win (even more-so than it already does). It will take something fundamentally human out of sport and turn it completely into a cynical capitalistic enterprise (even more-so than it already is). Not to mention the effect on young people who will be encouraged to play around with whatever drugs they can get their hands on. That's unacceptable to me and a lot of other people, which is why PEDs are still taboo and will continue to remain taboo.

Great post

 

[pestul]

Just please not bolt

Yeah. I'd love love for Bolt to be even that much better than his competitors.

 

[Versipellis]

My solution would be to forbid professional sport at a global level (so there would still be sport but only amateur) and forbid sponsorships over a certain limit (100k usd a year per athlete?).

I think it is truly the best way for Humanity going forward

Amateurs use doping too. Some people just want to be "winners", no matter what.
(first news article I could find)

 

[B-Dubs]

Yeah. I'd love love for Bolt to be even that much better than his competitors.

Seriously, if Bolt is clean he just becomes that much more of a legend. I really fucking hope he's clean.

 

[CarpeDeezNutz]

What's really funny about steroids is that back in the day you could legally bring a few bottles over from Mexico. I never took them but I had a friend who was a roid monster. A few of us went down to Mexico to pick some up. Fucking weird seeing people lined up at the vet for some Deca. Anyway he takes his bottles and we walk up to the border, they took him aside for a bit but eventually let him go. I'm assuming that shit is a no go now.

 

[Ducarmel]

My solution would be to forbid professional sport at a global level (so there would still be sport but only amateur) and forbid sponsorships over a certain limit (100k usd a year per athlete?).

I think it is truly the best way for Humanity going forward

A better solution is huge fines, void contracts with teams/sponsors and possibly lifetime ban from sports, assuming testing is taken seriously to begin with.

Your solution is taking money away from athletes and letting owners/sponsors exploit the hard work athletes do for them, example NCAA DV1 Football/Basketball.

 

[NomarTyme]

I wish PED was legal in US.

Seriously, if Bolt is clean he just becomes that much more of a legend. I really fucking hope he's clean.

He is not clean.

 

[Ravensmash]

Just let everyone dope. The cheaters will always be one step ahead so right now the only people losing are the ones who try to follow the rules.

Only, this proves that the cheaters aren't always one step ahead doesn't it?

Powell and Gay are hardly low profile athletes, and if anyone could cheat the system it'd be those guys at the top, with the money and the resources - the fact that they were caught shows that the system is working.

Athletes like these being caught doesn't prove that the whole field are cheats, if anything it proves that those who do cheat will eventually be caught - no matter their status.

 

[Devolution]

I think all athletes should be able to dope, it would make it an even playing field and more exciting.

Hate this line of thinking. That stuff fucks with people and you'll see even more teens using the shit because the pros do. Ugh.

 

[Ravensmash]

Hate this line of thinking. That stuff fucks with people and you'll see even more teens using the shit because the pros do. Ugh.

It doesn't even make logical sense - how would turning sports into "who has the best chemist" make it more even or competitive?

It'd just fuck over the majority (again, perhaps I'm being naive) who compete clean and send a message down the ranks that natural talent isn't good enough.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Hate this line of thinking. That stuff fucks with people and you'll see even more teens using the shit because the pros do. Ugh.

being a pro athlete, in general, fucks with people (especially younger people)

http://espn.go.com/high-school/foot...-lineman-south-carolina-collapses-tackle-dies

 

[AstroLad]

It really would be fascinating to know what top-level athletes in cycling, football, and baseball over the past 30 years have been clean. Tony Gwynn maybe? It seems inconceivable that any top-50 cyclist was clean because it's absolutely part of the team's culture.

 

[Ravensmash]

It really would be fascinating to know what top-level athletes in cycling, football, and baseball over the past 30 years have been clean. Tony Gwynn maybe? It seems inconceivable that any top-50 cyclist was clean because it's absolutely part of the team's culture.

What did Lance Armstrong reveal about that? Genuinely wondering because I had the interview with Oprah recorded but ended up deleting it before viewing.

 

[Imm0rt4l]

Funny you should mention Messi because he was injected with HGH as a teenager to combat his Growth Hormone Disorder.

Now HGH is banned in almost all sports but Messi would never have been able to play professional football without the Injections. It's not quite steroids but yeah...

On the other hand you have natural freaks like Andre the giant who have acromegaly. Excess growth hormone.

 

[joedan]

I think they do but very half assed. Didn't NBA stars get an exception so they won't get tested at the olympics? Something along these lines afaik.

Any links to this story?

 

[Ravensmash]

I think they do but very half assed. Didn't NBA stars get an exception so they won't get tested at the olympics? Something along these lines afaik.

I'm pretty sure that Kobe Bryant got tested at the Olympics as part of a random drugs test.

 

[joedan]

There's a strong resemblance here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ee925OTFBCA

 

[TheKaeptain]

It really would be fascinating to know what top-level athletes in cycling, football, and baseball over the past 30 years have been clean. Tony Gwynn maybe? It seems inconceivable that any top-50 cyclist was clean because it's absolutely part of the team's culture.

I bet he was 100% clean of PED's...

 

[Madness]

Money and fame have killed professional sports... It's no longer about just playing because you love it.

They really need to improve testing standards... And people were giving the US doping agency shit for testing Lindsay Vonn as a surprise at an awards show, but it's a great way to catch them.

Start keeping their blood and urine for years so that they can test them years from now as testing standards improve.