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Uber driver gender pay gap: 7%
- Thread starter llien
- Start date
Typhares
Member
Interesting, I've never even had a female drivers using Uber.
The conclusion is basically this:
"So what’s driving the gap? Three factors: experience, speed and preferences for where to drive."
Which demonstrates that gender itself is a non factor as expected since Uber algorithm is gender-blind.
The conclusion is basically this:
"So what’s driving the gap? Three factors: experience, speed and preferences for where to drive."
Which demonstrates that gender itself is a non factor as expected since Uber algorithm is gender-blind.
Yeah that should be a common percentage I would call plausible. If even. With our laws it would be almost impossible to do so. Even more. If women wuld be paid less then men why would companies just not hire women? they always go for the cheapest worker.
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I cannot fathom how anyone would be interested in this kind of research without a political agenda driving their bus (one way or the other). Hours worked for Uber is 100% up to the driver (this absolutely relates due to times of day worked), and accepting a pick-up, speed, and aggression in traffic is 100% up to the individual to the extent they don't violate Uber rules and get caught. I suppose the frequency and amount of tips earned could be affected by bias, but good luck providing an actual correlation without an impartial and controlled view of the interactions between driver and passenger, and hooking up each passenger to a lie detector after the ride to discuss their tip. And even if that were possible, legislating when and how much people tip is not appropriate, and tip pooling would be ridiculously unfair in such a personal and individual business arrangement.
I feel terrible for any student whose tuition would be less without their university pissing money away on something this silly.
I feel terrible for any student whose tuition would be less without their university pissing money away on something this silly.
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Vicetrailia
Member
Okay. Uber is gender blind. Tips are recent, but as far as we know aren't tied to anything...like if you tip less you get better/worse drivers.
llien
Member
That doesn't need to matter, however, just establishing who gets more tips is a finding on its own.
From the blog:
"Understanding the causes of the gender earnings gap is only a first, albeit important, step. It is a complex issue with no quick fixes. In the immediate term, one area for further exploration — in the context of ridesharing — may include product improvements that provide drivers with more contextual information to help them move up the learning curve more quickly, regardless of how much or how long they drive. Over the long term, additional research on the topic by academics in partnership with companies and industries can help advance the conversation in ways that bring us closer toward real and lasting solutions. Uber, for its part, hopes to contribute further to this important topic area through both a product design and research lens. We, as research collaborators, strongly encourage others to do the same."
So first they admit that experience, speed preferences, and the good sense to drive where the money is causes the gap. But instead of simply admitting that the people who are paid less need to step up their game, they propose that Uber spend money to invent software to teach people what they should be able to figure out on their own since they happen to drive a car around their local city for pay. I don't care how unpopular this sounds, but I am so sick of agenda based "studies." They are not looking to identify issues and find solutions in my opinion. Rather, they are looking for another witch to burn. And Uber's hopes to contribute further is nothing more than Uber trying to avoid being that witch.
"Understanding the causes of the gender earnings gap is only a first, albeit important, step. It is a complex issue with no quick fixes. In the immediate term, one area for further exploration — in the context of ridesharing — may include product improvements that provide drivers with more contextual information to help them move up the learning curve more quickly, regardless of how much or how long they drive. Over the long term, additional research on the topic by academics in partnership with companies and industries can help advance the conversation in ways that bring us closer toward real and lasting solutions. Uber, for its part, hopes to contribute further to this important topic area through both a product design and research lens. We, as research collaborators, strongly encourage others to do the same."
So first they admit that experience, speed preferences, and the good sense to drive where the money is causes the gap. But instead of simply admitting that the people who are paid less need to step up their game, they propose that Uber spend money to invent software to teach people what they should be able to figure out on their own since they happen to drive a car around their local city for pay. I don't care how unpopular this sounds, but I am so sick of agenda based "studies." They are not looking to identify issues and find solutions in my opinion. Rather, they are looking for another witch to burn. And Uber's hopes to contribute further is nothing more than Uber trying to avoid being that witch.
RafterXL
Member
https://politicritic.com/2018/02/07...an-men-despite-no-evidence-of-discrimination/
Basically, they earn less because of their choices, not because of a gender bias or discrimination. Falls in line with the pay gap controversy in general.
Basically, they earn less because of their choices, not because of a gender bias or discrimination. Falls in line with the pay gap controversy in general.
Vicetrailia
Member
They'd need to do a study on Ubers corporate gender pay gap, you know, the salary data. I don't think anyone doubted that the rideshare stuff is paid equally.
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llien
Member
How would that affect/address driver pay (I was told correct word is "earning") gap?
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why do you think that this would be different? Big companies like Uber are bound by restrictions. There is no way they pay women less for the same work. The only thing that could influence the wage are negotiations.
The gap widens as the income goes up. For example. All McDonalds cashier make the same amount. But do all superviors and store managers? Is there a pay gap?
That being said, there could still be issues of work/life balance. For instance if salaried, the more hours you can commit to the job, the more earnings you can potentially generate. This may be an advantage to men who may be able to commit more work hours while it not being direct discrimination against women.
CampbellzSoup
Member
Why not hire all women if their cheaper and get paid less? Businesses are all about the bottom line.
Vicetrailia
Member
We should let the data decide that. Drivers can't speak for corporate, especially in light of everything that was discovered in the last few years. That quote that I posted above was for corporate.
We don't need to do anything about the driver pay gap. It was UBER who made claims of equal pay, and it basically is as far as drivers are concerned.
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because they are not cheaper. its bullshit
TrainedRage
Banned
Typically my thoughts...
iorek21
Member
NOOOO, don't use logical arguments
How can the pay gap fallacy still be used if you keep destroying it with logic??????
Blood Borne
Member
People will always find way to create a 'crisis' when there's none. They have an agenda
Scientific studies generally recommended possible solutions that lead to further studies. The only logical solution is improved software to better help Uber drivers be more efficient. Those improvements might help women more in general than men to close the gap.
Because at higher levels you negotiate about your wage way more.The gap widens as the income goes up. For example. All McDonalds cashier make the same amount. But do all superviors and store managers? Is there a pay gap?
That being said, there could still be issues of work/life balance. For instance if salaried, the more hours you can commit to the job, the more earnings you can potentially generate. This may be an advantage to men who may be able to commit more work hours while it not being direct discrimination against women.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbes...3/why-dont-more-women-negotiate/#74f85a56e769
So instead of whining about Patriarchy and "evil" men maybe we should encourage women do negotiate more.
Vicetrailia
Member
There's a lot of conflicting studies about negotiation rates. Also there is conflicting studies that when women do negotiate (even if they negotiate less overall) they are less likely to get rewarded. I don't know if the average researcher still believes that negotiations are the biggest factor anymore.
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care to link these?
Vicetrailia
Member
Google: Women negotiate as much as men.
I'm on mobile so it takes time. Check out the Forbes reports (presents both sides) and then the BBC one. If you can't get it I'll post later.
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There’s more than one logical solution. A second is people need to get better at their jobs. A little self responsibility in planning your travel area would be sufficient to start.
GamingEnthusiast
Banned
Guys, get your cocks ready to be protected from this never ending myth. We are a dying breed and natural selection will inevitably make us extinct once they find out that synthetic sperm is a viable choice to reproduce.
BLAUcopter
Gold Member
betrayal
Banned
I think these two videos (as well as many others) really help understanding the main reasons for the gender wage gap or the lack of it, based on objective data. Like always you can't answer the "what" without the "why". That is the single most reason many discussions are useless, because one side only focuses on the "what".
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llien
Member
Well, if that explains it, what about "why not hire all women" argument then?
Why not prefer workers that do not ask for salary rise that often/aggressively?
Most Companies in tech have troubles even finding women for these jobs so this would also explain why the hire all women argumentation does not work. It would be interesting to see a comparison between men and women regarding employment/unemployment rate. I would love to the differences
KonradLaw
Member
Because assertiveness and ability to fight for better deal is likely important part of a lot of those higher up positions. So those women who won't ask for a raise likely wouldn't be good fit for the position anyway.
There is multiple solutions but get better isn’t an actual solution. Get better how? in what way? how do you implement it? How do you measure it? That’s how scientific research articles go about these things.
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SatansReverence
Hipster Princess
Um, what?
Get better at driving through traffic, better at keeping upto date with traffic congestion, better with avoid traffic altogether. There are many ways.
Try some self reflection before instantly jumping on the oppressive patriarchy boogeyman.
Since when does anything need to be implemented? It's a personal choice. If you want more out of it, put more into it.
Telling someone to just get better isn’t helping, specifying how is....
Like you did right here.
I’m not talking from an individual Uber driver perspective, I’m talking about it from a researchers perspective.
What are you even talking about?
Vicetrailia
Member
This isn't necessarily true. Some people are empowered by the system. So basically if it's a part of the job description they'll do it. Wage negotiation is much different.
betrayal
Banned
Woman just have different priorities in their lifes compared to men, which is neither good or bad. But for the moment it happens to be one of the reasons, why most woman get paid less than men. Compared to men woman can equally advance in their jobs, but it's less desireable for them. So at the end it really is about choice. If you want more, you have to invest more and to invest more requires an appropriate desire.
llien
Member
Could you elaborate.
What's interesting about this (and I have an interest because I produce both the gender pay gap and equal pay reports for the organisation I work for - in the UK it's now a legal requirement to produce a GPGR if you employee 250+ employees), is that it's demonstrating how a gender blind algorithm can still result in a gender bias. It's ultimately flawed as in reality both men and women will be paid the same if all conditions (area, experience, speed etc) are the same, but exploring why those conditions aren't the same is probably of some interest to Uber if they want (for whatever reason) to have a 0% pay gap. Just because it's not their fault doesn't mean they won't want to address it.
Organisations in publishing their pay gap figures are now having to consider why these gaps exist. It's rarely about direct discrimination, more about social and cultural issues (woman are more likely to take time off work to care for children, pilots in training are primarily male etc), but accepting that diversity is good, companies should be keen to ensure that woman are equally represented at all levels throughout their structure. (IMO)
Organisations in publishing their pay gap figures are now having to consider why these gaps exist. It's rarely about direct discrimination, more about social and cultural issues (woman are more likely to take time off work to care for children, pilots in training are primarily male etc), but accepting that diversity is good, companies should be keen to ensure that woman are equally represented at all levels throughout their structure. (IMO)
betrayal
Banned
That would lead to fatal consequences, because it would mean woman (and men) have to change their priorities for life. It would be against their very own will and their own choices.
You are starting with the wrong assumption saying "...woman are more likely to take time off work", which is not true, because it's not about the "what", but the "why". In almost all scenarios woman WANT to take time off work to care for their children. That is a huge difference. The reasons behind it may differ, but they're by own choice.
Woman also very consciously chose their own path when it comes to a job. If a woman wants to be a pilot, they're free to do so. No one will do anything about it. If she wants it and at the same time she invests the time and work to do it, then she will be a pilot. That is inevitable. There is virtually no difference between men and woman. And this is also true for many other jobs and areas in life.
People really need to start to understand, that woman and men are different. Equal but different. For every difference we have, we have created a category, class or group. And every groups says "Hey, you don't understand us, because you are not like us!". We seriously need to stop to create countless ways to divide us. Instead maybe we should start looking for ways to unite us.
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I don't know if you have children, or what country you live in, but up until recently in the UK men were only entitled to two weeks statutory paternity pay. Significantly less than statutory maternity pay. In that situation who's more likely to take time off (or quit) work to care for a family? And how is that really a choice?
In Germany I think it is 1.5 Years each
Ok just looked it up. Its 12 month +2 month in which you do not get the full wage. But thsi is when both stay at home.
Otherwise it is indeed 3 Years which can be shared with 1.5 years each.
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AnimalFather
Banned
men drive faster?
Achelexus
Member
When was the last time you saw a female bus driver? Or cab bus driver? Or private driver for important/rich people? When was the family you've seen where the wife is the one driving the car? Etc.