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Ubisoft's game developer purgatory studio detailed by Kotaku
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
Jessie.Bristol
Member
So far, it sounds like something out of the HBO show Silicon Valley.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Nothing, because apparently "can be used for personal training, skill development, and research and development projects." Much better than being laid off imo. Would be cool if they fixed the lights though. ._.
Better than laying them off like most companies do. They should probably have them doing something more constructive though.
Thinking about it, wouldn't it be better for morale if they give them paid leave if there's nothing to do? I know that's probably page one of the "things not to do" manual for companies, but I think your employees would come back all the better for it.
Thinking about it, wouldn't it be better for morale if they give them paid leave if there's nothing to do? I know that's probably page one of the "things not to do" manual for companies, but I think your employees would come back all the better for it.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Crazymoogle
Member
Very little. It starts at two weeks, usually.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
I'm genuinely curious about what there is to dislike about a company not immediately laying off their employees when said employees complete their assignment?
ScatheZombie
Member
As a developer, this sounds amazingly good.
In most cases, unwanted or unneeded headcount gets laid off or fired. Immediately. This sounds like you get to keep your paycheck while looking for new work, brush up your skills, work on pet projects while still having access to Ubisoft's internal network, tools, and resources (including other developers).
It sounds like a lot of these developers are wasting that opportunity on goofing off is probably at least part of the reason they are there in the first place.
Side note: It is fairly common for developers to have to apply and interview for other projects within the same company. That's how most of the companies I have worked for have handled it. The only benefit you have from already working at the company is that you hear about the positions before everyone else, your resume actually gets looked at, and you can literally walk over and talk to the manager of the project.
Honestly, I wish my current company would have this. There are quite a few people I would love to push off our current project (mainly because they are awful and just get in the way), but sometimes we need a extra set of hands and can't get them for weeks, or even months. Then those people, even as slow and prone to mistakes as they are, are better than nothing.
In most cases, unwanted or unneeded headcount gets laid off or fired. Immediately. This sounds like you get to keep your paycheck while looking for new work, brush up your skills, work on pet projects while still having access to Ubisoft's internal network, tools, and resources (including other developers).
It sounds like a lot of these developers are wasting that opportunity on goofing off is probably at least part of the reason they are there in the first place.
Side note: It is fairly common for developers to have to apply and interview for other projects within the same company. That's how most of the companies I have worked for have handled it. The only benefit you have from already working at the company is that you hear about the positions before everyone else, your resume actually gets looked at, and you can literally walk over and talk to the manager of the project.
Honestly, I wish my current company would have this. There are quite a few people I would love to push off our current project (mainly because they are awful and just get in the way), but sometimes we need a extra set of hands and can't get them for weeks, or even months. Then those people, even as slow and prone to mistakes as they are, are better than nothing.
loaf of bread
Member
Am I supposed to feel bad for people who get paid to do nothing and play games all day instead of being unemployed?
RedAssedApe
Banned
get paid to watch movies all day. whats the problem?
jk...the anons referenced here sound like their souls have been crushed 
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Yea I thought so. Seems like a thing that has to happen. Actually found a useful article on it. http://www.forbes.com/sites/lisaqua...ps-on-applying-for-a-job-within-your-company/ I think the "playing facebook games and watching movies" thing should be put on the actual person who is doing those things, when they could be using the time to put together a reel, make a small personal project etc.
CrunchyFrog
Member
Schreier with the scoops. Morbidly fascinating stuff.
Max Armstrong
Member
Seriously, if all these people got laid off you would have the same comment:
Oh cool, another addition to the list of reasons I dislike Ubisoft.
So a couple of people in there complain about the lighting and whatever, but I'm sure there are a lot of people inside that building that are pretty cool with the situation, we just don't hear shit about them because they are busy watching movies lol
If there are no expectations other than to seek positions on new teams, what's to prevent you from doing exactly as you describe? Prototype some ideas so you have additional work and initiative to showcase for the next team you join. Work with other people also in limbo if you like, and show some leadership skills.
Aside from the depressing environment it doesn't sound like a terrible approach, just one that was really badly explained to someone experiencing it for the first time. Honestly, it beats the heck out of assigning a bunch of people to a title regardless of whether they're motivated or a good fit for the team culture.
I can understand why this sounds depressing, but this sounds ok to me. I mean it's mentioned that they are not expected to be there all day. So, essentially, you're being paid a salary with no actual responsibilities. This would be a great time to work on your skill set, apply for new positions (whether within Ubisoft or not)...
I mean, I kind of went through the same thing not too long ago. I applied for a job change for the same company I was already in. I got the job, which was to work on upgrading an existing product that was already being used in the field. Within 2 months, the rest of the team and I basically came to the decision that the existing product was great and that there was no need for this project upgrade at all.
Unfortunately, I was hired specifically to help this team with this project, so while everyone else was shuffled around to their old teams, or to new teams, I was the odd man out. That continued for about 4 months. In that time, I was given no direction. There were no tasks for me to do.
So, I came in, and I took note of what the other teams were working on. I started focusing my energy on learning the tools and the techniques being used in those projects. Lots of self-development. I figured this would either help me slot into an existing or upcoming team in the company, or it would help land me a job somewhere outside of the company. Which is partly what I did too. I started applying and interviewing at other companies.
Eventually, I got picked up to work on another internal team, but for four months, I was in limbo. It was not pleasant. It was damned stressful. But then again, if I had been laid off, I would have been stressed, and I would not have been paid to work on developing my skillset and potentially looking for another job.
A severance package serves a similar purpose, but there is much more of a finite time limit there. The flip side is that if you get paid severance of a few months pay, and you find a job within those few months, then hey free money, awesome! The bad side is that your stress and worry is going to tick up if you have trouble finding a job as that money runs out.
I guess what kills people is the uncertainty. It certainly did bother me, but I used it to drive me to do something about it. Just sitting around and watching movies is not the answer. You're not expected to be in office all the time? Don't stay home and masturbate. Find a way to use that time productively.
TL;DR -- I totally get why this is a stressful situation, and I can understand why people hate it. But this isn't horrible or inhumane. Getting laid off at the end of every project, with possibly no severance, and nothing to help you put food on your table aside from maybe unemployment, is almost certainly a much shittier proposition in most cases.
There's a lot better reasons to be upset with Ubisoft than this. This is a bit odd, but not evil.
I mean, I kind of went through the same thing not too long ago. I applied for a job change for the same company I was already in. I got the job, which was to work on upgrading an existing product that was already being used in the field. Within 2 months, the rest of the team and I basically came to the decision that the existing product was great and that there was no need for this project upgrade at all.
Unfortunately, I was hired specifically to help this team with this project, so while everyone else was shuffled around to their old teams, or to new teams, I was the odd man out. That continued for about 4 months. In that time, I was given no direction. There were no tasks for me to do.
So, I came in, and I took note of what the other teams were working on. I started focusing my energy on learning the tools and the techniques being used in those projects. Lots of self-development. I figured this would either help me slot into an existing or upcoming team in the company, or it would help land me a job somewhere outside of the company. Which is partly what I did too. I started applying and interviewing at other companies.
Eventually, I got picked up to work on another internal team, but for four months, I was in limbo. It was not pleasant. It was damned stressful. But then again, if I had been laid off, I would have been stressed, and I would not have been paid to work on developing my skillset and potentially looking for another job.
A severance package serves a similar purpose, but there is much more of a finite time limit there. The flip side is that if you get paid severance of a few months pay, and you find a job within those few months, then hey free money, awesome! The bad side is that your stress and worry is going to tick up if you have trouble finding a job as that money runs out.
I guess what kills people is the uncertainty. It certainly did bother me, but I used it to drive me to do something about it. Just sitting around and watching movies is not the answer. You're not expected to be in office all the time? Don't stay home and masturbate. Find a way to use that time productively.
TL;DR -- I totally get why this is a stressful situation, and I can understand why people hate it. But this isn't horrible or inhumane. Getting laid off at the end of every project, with possibly no severance, and nothing to help you put food on your table aside from maybe unemployment, is almost certainly a much shittier proposition in most cases.
There's a lot better reasons to be upset with Ubisoft than this. This is a bit odd, but not evil.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
In a lot of fields you have to interview to get assigned to a new project within the same company. Disney animators don't work on one film and then meet the execs and they're like "hey come back we need you again bruh." Things have to be kept professional and legal. And I don't see anything in this article that states that can't be doing productive things. And the article states that out of the thousands of employees that have been employed, only 173 have actually been laid off in 2013-2014. Compared to the tons of layoffs from other game devs that's a great number.
If you're not showing up for a full work day or are going to watch movies all day, what's the point? The company is still expecting you to invest in yourself and your skills/expertise in order to offer something in the future when you go for or get offered a spot on a new project.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
Damn that's pretty horrible. And the thing is you can't just chill in the room and get paid to do nothing because odds are if you aren't on a project and lay offs come around, your neck is first. So you're basically stuck applying to get on other projects and chilling in a depressing room hoping today isn't the day you ran out of time.
XANDER CAGE
Member
Great tag.
Also, they can't do anything productive really, because there is apparently a rigid reassignment process that they need to go through to get back into a megaproject. It's not like they're on project flex time where they get to spend official time working on new games. I very much doubt you can just go and grab some devkits and get prototyping, in this situation.
People with motivation and ambition realize the value and time. They want to use it well.
Zomba13
Member
I thought of that too and yeah, I'd much rather be re-assigned to some kind of purgatory than laid off right at a projects end.
John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
Yea I tried explaining from a business perspective how this is a positive intention and also an investment, and of course its ignored ::shrug::
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Regarding the bolded:Not the first person to acknowledge my tag, will not be the last. And I can't imagine that the time spent watching movies and playing facebook games wouldn't be better spent on personal projects.
XANDER CAGE
Member
What personal projects? Balancing their checkbooks? Unless there are official and accessible channels for people in this department to get access to devkits and things of that nature, Ubisoft is poorly supporting their ability to work on "personal projects."
You're making it sound like it's the department's fault for having nothing to do. It's a failure on the part of the company to provide adequate work or opportunities to experiment on projects, plain and simple.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Well as an animator or programmer, there are plenty of free programs to use for personal projects. And plenty of people to contact within this industry to use said programs and/or assets. Remember that Dante's Inferno fan animation thing made by a ND dev? Or even simple animation tests. Or working on their reels. Instead of "watching movies and playing facebook games."
XANDER CAGE
Member
So get a department manager in there to start helping employees with that stuff. If I was unceremoniously shoved into a purgatory department with no actual work I wouldn't be particularly arsed to bash my way through using GIMP or Blender for the good of my glorious leaders.
Those cool side projects you mentioned happen when companies provide support for their workers to thrive and experiment. I am sure there are good uses of free time that go on here - the article mentions some people who've made use of it - but if Ubisoft wants more of that kind of thing to happen, they need to provide more direction than "welcome to the rubber room."
publicpwnerer
Member
Kotaku gets a lot of flak (Sometimes deserved), but they do have some damn good insider articles, especially the conditions of the industry, as well as exposing poor management (In b4 lel irony...no, fuck you)
I think the worst thing about the industry is just the sheer amount of shuffling around the laying off of people in the middle of / after projects. If you're not in some powerhouse, cliquey studio, you're gambling with your life and career.
I think the worst thing about the industry is just the sheer amount of shuffling around the laying off of people in the middle of / after projects. If you're not in some powerhouse, cliquey studio, you're gambling with your life and career.
This doesn't sound like a terrible thing. Just a sad waste of talent and manpower.
The weird thing about this is the applications and interviews that you need to do to get accepted into other projects as if you're an outsider. Aren't they supposed to know their employees' skills and accomplishments, and use that info to assign them to appropriate projects?
The weird thing about this is the applications and interviews that you need to do to get accepted into other projects as if you're an outsider. Aren't they supposed to know their employees' skills and accomplishments, and use that info to assign them to appropriate projects?
ScatheZombie
Member
I find this extremely hard to believe. It would be ridiculously easy to put together a modest prototype proposal, stand up in the middle of the room and ask if a couple of people there are programmers/artists who want to put together a mini-project. You don't need a full Xbox/PS4/WiiU devkit to prototype. 50% of the work is done on paper and spreadsheets. The rest you throw into any number of pre-built, free engines and run it on literally anything. We don't go from "You know what would be a cool idea!?!" to coding on a PS4.
In any case, playing random games and watching Netflix is literally the last thing you should be doing. There are so many opportunities if you are still collecting your full paycheck, surrounded by other developers with nothing to do, and have access to a major studio's tools and technology. If you don't have the ambition or knowledge to figure that out, you probably don't deserve to be on the main projects anyway.
Hell, I bet that's part of the 'test' of seeing who to bring back onto projects. If you just sit there, waiting to either be laid off or given work - well, then goodbye. But if you show interest in, you know, keeping your job, well we might have a spot for you on AssCreed 17.
Crazymoogle
Member
Most big studios lock network project folders to the team involved and getting any app you don't have already can take an approval process. Dev kits are per project and allocated to other teams right away. (Very few companies have spare devkits).
The problem with the "make your own game" idea mentioned in the thread is that this is not a studio rental. Every morning, you could (a) work on said project, (b) get assigned to a project, (c) get laid off or (d) see your cohorts go missing (as the article states).
Getting paid is awesome, but the pressure is real, and I can see this being a huge problem for people stuck there for long periods of time.
I would actually agree with you that some sort of management/coaching would make this whole thing 1000x better. Part of my frustration with my personal experience in a similar situation was that uncertainty, and not knowing what to do exactly.
That being said, that is essentially asking for an improvement to the process without actually indicting the process entirely. Generally speaking, the best workers in creative/technical fields are self-starters. Naturally inquisitive people that are rarely ever idle for long. Given nothing to do, they will find something to do.
I'm not even saying I'm one of those. I firmly believe part of my struggle in my time in "corporate limbo" was getting over that need for constant direction.
The problem with this is that everyone in this industry has their own "pet project" and if they work on it during company time, it becomes the company's.
I convinced one studio I worked for to have a "if we don't do anything with it in 2 years, it goes back to you" policy. Suddenly everyone was suggesting new game ideas.
If they want people to be creative and do things like this, Ubi should implement such a policy.
Absolutely. As a coder, you could grab Unity for free if you want to, and there's free assets to prototype with. I know, because I've been doing that for a couple of months now.
I was trying to skirt around this issue, but I think there's some (ugly) truth here. Coming from just the coding side of this (can't speak for the artist folk), this seems to me to be a dirty method to highlight the differences between a "code monkey" and a software developer. A code monkey can bang out a program given a problem and it's solution. A developer needs to be able to come up with a solution to a given problem as well as being able to implement it.
That's an excellent point too.
As a developer, I can see this being demoralizing. Moreso if I wasn't totally sure what was going on. However, this is a much better alternative than being laid off. Game devs search for jobs near end of projects all the time. It's pretty normal, so if I'm getting paid my same salary while I'm looking for jobs, then awesome.
Being laid off and looking for a new studio, seeing your funds dwindle is a much worse experience.
Being laid off and looking for a new studio, seeing your funds dwindle is a much worse experience.
Sounds like that's intentional. It's the same as relocating a position to a terrible part of the country, or moving someone's desk to the basement. There will be natural attrition and those who remain have just proven that they're willing to put up with a ton of crap to retain any position within the company.
Aces&Eights
Member
Why don't they at least farm out the QC to these people? No matter what your specialty, anyone can be taught to play a game looking for bugs and make notes. With 10-15 games going on at anytime, you could put a build on an FTP and let these guys play it and make notes.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Maybe some better management could be better, but still, even without it I see more positives in this than negatives. And I still think that they should be doing better things when they have free time.
Just gonna say this is the sort of games journalism I want to see more of. Fascinating look at an otherwise unknown part of game development in an established studio. Does a great job of being impartial and putting forth the pros and cons. Well done Schreier. Keep up the excellent work.
I see plenty of stick by putting people in the Ubisoft Aircraft Hangar Division but no carrot. Hopefully they can apply for better jobs while in limbo. I know I would go crazy if I had to drop everything at my job and suddenly be transferred to the do nothing division all day.
I guess it comes down to whether you want to sit comfortably in purgatory or bite the bullet and accept being laid off. I'd just take severance and be done with it.