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Ubuntu is a godsend for dealing with computer-illiterate family members
- Thread starter Krejlooc
- Start date
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If you like better aesthetics but out of date kernel/drivers/libraries, then yes.
And some weird decisions on what software to include or not in a fresh install, and last i heard there were still odd, minor issues with the GUI and windowing.
Basically, it's Ubuntu with a skin anyway.
Hah. I guess there's always a flipside. Maybe I just lucked out, or it came down to the time in which we both tried.
Except really not, an icon is an icon is an icon, tell people what to click and they click it...
Ubuntu (Mint preferred) is the way to go, lets give grandma an OS that hasn't even had a real 1.0 release yet...
Sounds awesome for someone that can't manage to not fuck up windows...
prelude514
Banned
I just tell them I'm installing a "new Windows" and show them icons etc. Nothing but smooth sailing after that.
I go with Mint Cinnamon over Ubuntu, though.
I go with Mint Cinnamon over Ubuntu, though.
ratcliffja
Member
I always found Ubuntu to be really confusing and hard to use.
Don't install it with Unity, that desktop is hot garbage. Install Linux Mint MATE or Cinnamon
Uses the same packages as Ubuntu, so you aren't stuck looking for software...
AbortedWalrusFetus
Member
It is really nice, but the support isn't quite perfect yet. The strides made are great though. All of the gripes I have are pretty minor.
For example, and this would be bothersome for someone not knowledgeable, Ubuntu does not play nicely with my GTX 970 out of the box. In fact, I could barely get it to boot. I had to put nomodeset in grub for the boot commands so that it stopped trying to load a display driver. Then I had to download and install the appropriate nvidia driver. Now, that's probably something OP did when setting up the machine and family would never notice it, but if you were just a regular dude trying to install it would be a literal nightmare.
Then there are just some simple usability gripes. My biggest right now is related to multi-monitor setups. The launcher bars only have the option of displaying all open tasks, rather than the tasks exclusive to the monitor on which they reside. You also cannot move the taskbars to different locations on each monitor. I run a horizontal and vertical monitor setup so I can code on the vertical monitor. I prefer to have the launcher on the left side of the horizontal monitor, and the top of the vertical monitor. You can't do that out of the box with Ubuntu, but it's stupidly easy to do in Windows. Windows 8/10 will even let you limit tasks shown on the taskbar to ones that reside on that particular monitor. Polish like that is when you really start to see the differences.
That said? When I can install apache with a handful of keystrokes and it's preconfigured as a service and automatically running? It's super hard to gripe about. Tons of advantages to running it. Still, I don't think I'll ever do more than dual boot it.
*Note: I have not fooled around with alternatives desktops.
For example, and this would be bothersome for someone not knowledgeable, Ubuntu does not play nicely with my GTX 970 out of the box. In fact, I could barely get it to boot. I had to put nomodeset in grub for the boot commands so that it stopped trying to load a display driver. Then I had to download and install the appropriate nvidia driver. Now, that's probably something OP did when setting up the machine and family would never notice it, but if you were just a regular dude trying to install it would be a literal nightmare.
Then there are just some simple usability gripes. My biggest right now is related to multi-monitor setups. The launcher bars only have the option of displaying all open tasks, rather than the tasks exclusive to the monitor on which they reside. You also cannot move the taskbars to different locations on each monitor. I run a horizontal and vertical monitor setup so I can code on the vertical monitor. I prefer to have the launcher on the left side of the horizontal monitor, and the top of the vertical monitor. You can't do that out of the box with Ubuntu, but it's stupidly easy to do in Windows. Windows 8/10 will even let you limit tasks shown on the taskbar to ones that reside on that particular monitor. Polish like that is when you really start to see the differences.
That said? When I can install apache with a handful of keystrokes and it's preconfigured as a service and automatically running? It's super hard to gripe about. Tons of advantages to running it. Still, I don't think I'll ever do more than dual boot it.
*Note: I have not fooled around with alternatives desktops.
I used a really lite version of Ubunto, I can't remember which one, but it is actually pretty great and I was impressed with how well it ran on a ~1ghz laptop with a gig of ram. It's just as good if not slightly better than the W7 work computers we have, and those are much more powerful. Though I blame really out of date everything on those and fucking internet explorer 9.
Anyways, it has some features that are easier than windows. I like the install procedure for ubutno, just copy and paste 3 lines of text into the terminal and you're done.
The issue is, when something doesn't go smoothly, it becomes a nightmare. I CANNOT find where programs are stored for the life of me, so if something installs and doesn't go to the start menu, that's good game well played. It's gone, and will just waste hard drive space... wherever it is.
I know you can find it, but as a non linux master, idk how and google doesn't help.
The point is eh, I don't think it's great for novice users unless you set everything up beforehand and make sure they'll never want to install or upgrade anything.
Anyways, it has some features that are easier than windows. I like the install procedure for ubutno, just copy and paste 3 lines of text into the terminal and you're done.
The issue is, when something doesn't go smoothly, it becomes a nightmare. I CANNOT find where programs are stored for the life of me, so if something installs and doesn't go to the start menu, that's good game well played. It's gone, and will just waste hard drive space... wherever it is.
I know you can find it, but as a non linux master, idk how and google doesn't help.
The point is eh, I don't think it's great for novice users unless you set everything up beforehand and make sure they'll never want to install or upgrade anything.
Aarglefarg
Member
It might be out of date but Canonical sells support to companies, not individuals. They don't really make money though. The founder, Mark Shuttleworth, is just really rich to start with.
Wonderful contribution. I hope you can share further informed insights.
UltraMagnanimous
Member
Chrome OS. No other choice for novice, There is almost nothing you can break, or cannot be done in the browser for the average user.
Linux in 2015 still sucks for anything beyond the most basic workload.
My company uses Exchange, like pretty much every other large company. No good options for Exchange mail + calendar. Thunderbird works, but it is incredibly slow.
I need to edit pdfs. The world standard for digital document exchange. Add / replace pages, headers, footers, watermarks, signatures. Spent a couple hours searching for anything that looked like it would do. Nothing.
LibreOffice. Tried the new version 5. Opened one Excel file. Just plain Excel 2010, no macros or anything. I was impressed it opened correctly. Tried to save it. Crashes on save every single time.
My company uses Exchange, like pretty much every other large company. No good options for Exchange mail + calendar. Thunderbird works, but it is incredibly slow.
I need to edit pdfs. The world standard for digital document exchange. Add / replace pages, headers, footers, watermarks, signatures. Spent a couple hours searching for anything that looked like it would do. Nothing.
LibreOffice. Tried the new version 5. Opened one Excel file. Just plain Excel 2010, no macros or anything. I was impressed it opened correctly. Tried to save it. Crashes on save every single time.
Yeah where I work, all of our clients are on exchange. Everybody is linked through active directory, or azure active directory with Windows.
For medium and large (like enterprise) stuff, nothing comes close yet to managing forests and trees. Part of that is pre-adoption (everybody uses it), but the main thing is how powerful Windows based stuff is with a high user-count and being able to control invidual OS features for users and groups.
Love Ubuntu on my spare machine though.
Evolution for mail, still works and is still active...so yeah
Master PDF Editor is pretty well rounded and doesn't seem to mangle things.
And maybe your excel file just sucked, Libre Office treats most things very well these days...
I tried to use some builds of open source operating systems
It didn't work. They both learned windows 98 and the more it strays from it the worse things get. Heck when I installed Windows 8 they were like 'theres a virus on the computer and it wont go away' it was the metro screen. (Classic shell fixed it though)
Even their phones and tablets are just baffling to them, pretty much used entirely for facebook or instagram though with some youtube inbetween.
Let us though relish this moment in history, after this there will be no more floundering parents to baby sit as computers become increasingly used in typical households. Maybe one day everyone will know how to write a document and add a .jpeg to it and then email it to a friend and then print it off and then fax it to someone. Maybe.
It didn't work. They both learned windows 98 and the more it strays from it the worse things get. Heck when I installed Windows 8 they were like 'theres a virus on the computer and it wont go away' it was the metro screen. (Classic shell fixed it though)
Even their phones and tablets are just baffling to them, pretty much used entirely for facebook or instagram though with some youtube inbetween.
Let us though relish this moment in history, after this there will be no more floundering parents to baby sit as computers become increasingly used in typical households. Maybe one day everyone will know how to write a document and add a .jpeg to it and then email it to a friend and then print it off and then fax it to someone. Maybe.
As far as I know Evolution can't read eml files. The whole rest of the organization isn't just going to switch message formats just for one guy using Linux.
There is no obvious way to add a header or a footer in Master PDF, nor is there any mention of either in the help files. Also, it has no OCR capability.
How can a specific excel file "suck"? I'd understand if it was created by another third party program trying to emulate Excel, but an xlsx file created by the official Microsoft Excel should not crash Libre Office, period. The file format has not changed since 2010. They've had 5 years to figure it out.
I understand this is free software, and all of this may be pretty good in that light. But it is in no way ready for production.
cool story
lol Ubunto.
As for uninstalling things, assuming you're on an Ubuntu-based system, "sudo apt-get uninstall package-name". Done.
False.
- Exchange, being a Microsoft technology, of course works best on Windows.
- A quick Google shows plenty of options for editing pdfs
- LibreOffice 5 is great. Been using it to edit Word and Excel files since release without any (major)hitches.
So if anything goes wrong (for example they think they got hacked for whatever stupid reason), who will they be mad at you think? You didn't install an antivirus after all.
I'm using Ubuntu only now but I'm keeping it to myself, don't want any trouble with friends and family members.
I'm using Ubuntu only now but I'm keeping it to myself, don't want any trouble with friends and family members.
neogaffer1
Banned
this is smart.
i laughed internally when i saw that thread title. my computer-illiterate mom freaks out when any small thing changes in her Windows install (when we switched out her XP machine for Win10 she complained to my dad and made him switch it back until i came back for a weekend and messed around to get it as close as possible to what she wanted). and as someone who's used both ubuntu and fedora, there's no way in hell i'd get any computer-illiterate person i know on ubuntu--they'd first freak out that everything's different, and even if they get over that, the chances of shit randomly breaking exponentially increases vs. windows, and when shit does break, things end up worse than similar shit breaking in windows.
You remind them that they're far too dull and unimportant for anyone to want to hack their computer. The likelihood of them actually being affected by viruses or malware is low, and if you really must, ClamAV can be installed with a single command in the terminal (two commands if you fancy throwing in a firewall). You could even do it remotely if you'd thought to set that up before handing the computer back to them at the start.
The visual and navigation aspect i get. A lot of people get confused by that early in the switch.
But what are these people doing that messes up and breaks their system? Is it that everything they need wasn't set up properly for them in the first place? Is it that after you've set everything up you then change every shortcut to exclusively open up the terminal, then tell them to just go bonkers with their su password?
If everything like drivers, security, printers and most needed applications are set up correctly at the start (on a recent release of Ubuntu ~ 30mins of work, if that), what on earth are these people messing up worse than they could on Windows when all they're doing is turning it on, clicking on the Chrome icon, browsing for a bit and shooting off a few emails, and then shutting down 90% of the time?
Edit: Didn't think/mean to double-post like this, apologies.
Tertullian
Member
I've always thought of installing a Linux distro on my old Windows XP Lenovo laptop. But I'm always afraid because I don't really know what I'm doing. My main goal is just maximum speed (without giving up basic functionality, and easy installation). I was looking at Lubuntu, but maybe I should consider Elementary OS...
What would GAF recommend?
What would GAF recommend?
What are the specs? I personally prefer Xubuntu unless the hardware can't even run that.
There are a lot of articles, videos and forum threads that can help you with the install disc/USB setup and install too.
It works on Linux, it just works better and is set up more easily on Windows, as NotBacon said.
There are plugins and addons that work with Thunderbird to get Exchange mail, calendar, contacts and directory service (that i know of).
It's not perfect or one-click to get running, granted, but it's doable.
No offense OP but your family sound lie tech morons. What you've done sounds like a nightmare, but glad its worked out for you. Being IT support for family is a tiresome, thankless and often annoying job.
My brother is a plumber, owns his own business, I've helped him frequently with IT stuff, even when he moved into his new house, I traced out all his Ethernet wires so he knew which one went to which room, as you may know this is a pain in the ass when nothing is labeled. But when I need plumbing help I get charged a bill
My brother is a plumber, owns his own business, I've helped him frequently with IT stuff, even when he moved into his new house, I traced out all his Ethernet wires so he knew which one went to which room, as you may know this is a pain in the ass when nothing is labeled. But when I need plumbing help I get charged a bill
yea but the protocols exchange uses are not native to windows. OSX, iOS and android all connect and sync with exchange just fine.
Tertullian
Member
I don't remember the exact specs, but they are pretty good for a 7-8 year old laptop. I think it has 3 gb of RAM.
I was considering lubuntu because everyone has opinions about their favorite distro, so I was just gonna go with the fastest distro that seemed reasonable. But I could be persuaded. I want a distro that will (a) be lightning fast, (b) be simple and foolproof to install, and (c) provides ready and intuitive basic functionality like word processing and web browsing out of the box.
Otherspacing
Member
My family wouldn't be able to make the switch, my mother relies heavily on Microsoft Office for doing her job and she'd struggle to learn a new thing at this point. She also doesn't give me too many headaches. Most of the time her laptop is running very smoothly. She knows how to navigate the web without clicking on suspicious things.
On the other hand, I'd love if my father used Linux or some OS besides Windows, he infects the whole thing in less than a month, but he needs SolidWorks on his PC, so I guess I'll have to deal with that for all eternity.
The only exception is my brother, he can handle Linux pretty easily, I think being younger definitely helps in his case. He didn't have too many problems until now.
As for me, I like Linux but to be honest every time I try Ubuntu or some other variant, my laptop battery takes too much of a hit for me to care. It also seems to make all my laptops hotter than when they are running Windows. I have already installed things such as tlp and some other alternatives, but it doesn't seem to help much. I use it at work though, it is a pretty good OS for developing code.
On the other hand, I'd love if my father used Linux or some OS besides Windows, he infects the whole thing in less than a month, but he needs SolidWorks on his PC, so I guess I'll have to deal with that for all eternity.
The only exception is my brother, he can handle Linux pretty easily, I think being younger definitely helps in his case. He didn't have too many problems until now.
As for me, I like Linux but to be honest every time I try Ubuntu or some other variant, my laptop battery takes too much of a hit for me to care. It also seems to make all my laptops hotter than when they are running Windows. I have already installed things such as tlp and some other alternatives, but it doesn't seem to help much. I use it at work though, it is a pretty good OS for developing code.
Neuromancer
Member
I don't know. I saw a news story a couple years back with an Ubuntu horror story. If this bright young college student can't figure it out, what hope does my dad have?
http://youtu.be/5Qj8p-PEwbI
http://youtu.be/5Qj8p-PEwbI
Been doing this with Ubuntu for the past few years.
Any machine that I recycle/give away goes out with Ubuntu on it.
Lubuntu will be a bit nippier than Xubuntu, but Xubuntu doesn't feel so far removed from the fancier desktops other distros/versions use - but is faster than most. Though you wouldn't really have much trouble using either. I'd suggest sticking with a Ubuntu flavour whatever you might go for though - You want as much as possible to just work? Ubuntu's your best shot, and Ubuntu's installer is about as simple as they get now too. You need to install some software? It's probably already in Ubuntu's repos, or can be easily added with a ppa, or can be installed with a .deb. You're having trouble with something? Chances are someone has a guide or pretty easy to find forum post about sorting it out on Ubuntu, or it's already in the wiki. Most stuff like word-processing, image viewers, music and video players, web-browsing and all that are ready right away. You don't need to go in the terminal to update stuff these days, or to install most software. It'll more than likely automatically configure your drivers for everything in your laptop during initial install. It'll automatically handle most USB devices being plugged in, local network sharing is easy to get going, and the last 3 printers i tried with a Ubuntu based distro were recognised and worked as soon as they were first connected (and one of those was automatically found over wifi).
It's just occurred to me that there's also an Xfce (like Xubuntu) version of Linux Mint available too. Mint also being based on Ubuntu, with a few extras included from startup that potentially save you a little work setting up, even compared to Ubuntu.
Two brain dead idiots can't figure out how to install the internet.
That's not really a workload issue, that's an issue with companies being locked into proprietary software. Granted that doesn't make the switch any less painful, though it is becoming less so due to the increasing importance of mobile devices, which thankfully MS has not been able to ruin with proprietary bullshit yet.
I've never had issues with thunderbird being slow or with finding a program to edit PDFs though.
That is also not really relevant to the OP's situation, where the users are admittedly using the most basic workload.
Basically any individual computer user I know that isn't a PC gamer can switch over to linux with no real issues. I give out a couple chromebooks as gifts every christmas to people having computer issues, and I have never had anyone unable to do everything they need to do with them. I also find most end users are much quicker at adapting than many here give them credit for. Hell I had to install crunchbang on one of my nephews computer because the POS was so outdated that was literally the only up to date full distro OS I could find that would run on the thing. He adapted fine, and was able to get a few months of use out of it before he could get a replacement.
The companies that rely on some arcane excel script that only works with excel and no one knows enough about to rewrite without breaking it are what is holding Linux back more than anything IMO.
neogaffer1
Banned
the multiple times i ran ubuntu i always ended up going back to windows because stuff broke and made the entire partition a waste. it'd either be some driver update borking graphics, wifi, bluetooth, or something else completely different, and i'd end up going back to windows, or the fact that i could never get the touchscreen to work properly and sometimes when trying to get it to work i'd end up in single user mode after a reboot with ubuntu complaining that whatever thing wasn't working and so forth. with ubuntu it'd be somethign where i could spend time and eventually fix it but why bother when i have windows on another partition, with fedora on the other hand it wouldn't have anything until something happens and suddenly it doesn't even boot anymore, at which point the only way to fix it was to reinstall fedora.
Fair enough. There have been a lot of improvements in the last few years for automatic support with graphics drivers, wifi and bluetooth but typically if a big problem was going to come up it would be during the initial setup. Graphics now are pretty easy whether you go for proprietary or open drivers but 6/7 years ago in Uni i had a hell of a time trying to get the Nvidia chip in my laptop to work. Back then it was either graphics drivers and an evening editing (begging) xorg.conf or trying to get a printer to work with CUPS that would throw a wrench in the works. And admittedly, touch-screens are not something i've ever had to mess with and i believe they're still finicky.
More recent experiences are much, much improved though. As i said earlier in the thread, i put Mint on my brother's computer the other day and it was all as he wanted in about 30/40mins and there wasn't a single hitch.
As it should be, and why I don't do that shit for free anymore. I give out tech gifts for christmases and birthdays, and that includes setup and teaching them how to use it. If they break something and I have to come over and fix it, they are paying me a nominal fee though(less than geek squad would charge to not fix the issue
), to ensure that they aren't just wasting my time.Think about it this way, if your brother would come over and fix your plumbing every time you fuck up and flush something that shouldn't be flushed, what is your incentive to learn. IMO basic computer literacy is a skill everyone should learn, on the same level of 'dumping grease down the sink clogs your pipes', and if you don't respect my time enough to stop dumping grease down the sink, I am going to charge you to fix it.
FriedConsole
Banned
Yeah this is better. I love Linux but if they are just web browsing just do a Live DVD with no hard disk. You only fixed the problem by giving them a computer they can't really install anything on.
Muskieratboi
Member
Atraveller
Banned
I installed it on a 2010 netbook, still slow af, netbooks are nothing but trash.
The only thing i've ever found to run acceptably on a netbook is an Openbox desktop using distro called CrunchBang Linux. It's not maintained anymore but a bunch of people continued it in spirit with BunsenLabs Linux.
If you're still at all bothered in trying, if that doesn't work...i dunno dude.
Atraveller
Banned
Thanks, but I ditched it as soon as I got an iPad earlier this year, it covers my mobile work needs well.
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