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Ueda posts about TLG

Midas

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Jun 7, 2004
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Why do you buy a console for one game before its release? And people taking things like move to a new platform personal? What is this? (Well, we have that Rayman thread which is only a delay)
 

Neat Machine

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Jun 2, 2007
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I hope this game comes out, I hope it really does for all the fans that want it. But I also fear it won't sell very well, or may turn out feeling dated and overlooked b/c the long, long development cycle.

I'm interested to see the final product. Has there ever been a game thats been borderline vaporware thats come out and been truely amazing? I recall Duke Nukem was in the same hell hole and we know what happened with that.
Didn't Killzone 2 go through some really rough shit before we got a chance to see what they had actually managed to do? I don't know about 'truly amazing' but it was definitely a critical success. Final Fantasy XII also comes to mind. That one was in development for quite a while wasn't it?

I don't really feel right comparing this to the usual troubled project though. I get the feeling that Team Ico almost doesn't work in the same industry as most developers. What I mean by that is the problems here are probably not the exact same problems usually associated with a long delay, and so they are not indicative of the same outcome.
 

pargonta

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Sep 16, 2009
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(Well, we have that Rayman thread which is only a delay)
of an already finished game.

for me, i bought a ps3 3 years ago for multiple games, tlg included.

i would feel slighted if it did not come out for ps3, even though if it were available for ps4 i would began planning a purchase for that most likely.
 

bone_and_sinew

breaking down barriers in gratuitous nudity
Feb 17, 2009
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They could take 8 more years on it and I still won't expect it to be a good game. Ueda left because he knows Team Ico will be disbanded after this bombs hard.
 

Aquamarine

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May 24, 2012
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You might see one or two. Vita ports maybe.
This is not true. In fact from now on Sony is pushing both third parties and their studios to either make a PS4 game or a cross platform game Vita/PS3. We have already seen the first results of this with a few announcements from japanese developers.
About The Last Guardian it doesn't make a lot of sense to skip a PS3 version completely.
I guess the best approach would be to handle the situation like Nintendo did with Zelda on GC/Wii.

I'm likening it to the PSP -> Vita situation.

When the Vita came out, SCE was 100% DONE with the PSP.

The industry is different now than it was back in 2005/2006. PS3 development costs eclipse anything on the PS2. Today's Sony is not going to invest in an expensive project for its old system...when it's trying to sell something new.
 

Elios83

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Jun 30, 2004
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Sony hasn't publicly acknowledged the existence of the PS4. Of course he will say it's coming for PS3.

But look here:

http://www.vg247.com/2012/11/06/the-last-guardian-yoshida-“can’t-promise”-a-2013-release-for-the-team-ico-project/

If TLG can't make a 2013 release date, it's on the PS4. There's absolutely no question about that. We are NOT seeing any more Sony 1st-party games coming out on the PS3 after 2013 is up.
This is not true. In fact from now on Sony is pushing both third parties and their studios to either make a PS4 game or a cross platform game Vita/PS3. We have already seen the first results of this with a few announcements from japanese developers.
About The Last Guardian it doesn't make a lot of sense to skip a PS3 version completely.
I guess the best approach would be to handle the situation like Nintendo did with Zelda on GC/Wii.
 

jett

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Jun 6, 2004
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I wonder how much money they've spent on this. Even at like 3-5MM a year it's gotten pretty expensive...
Team ICO employs about 30 people. So their average salary times 30 times 7-8. Based on that it's not that much. $10~ million, maybe. But, we got reports last year that several Sony studios around the world were helping with development, so who the fuck knows.
 

flyinpiranha

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Aug 25, 2009
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I hope it gets pushed to PS4, same with Versus, and a remake of TLoU and No Ni Kuni ... then I wouldn't need to buy a PS3 on the cheap (if I do).
 

BadWolf

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Apr 15, 2010
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Yeah if its PS4 then I expect another 1 or 2 year wait, they won't blow a high profile game like this at launch or close to it when the install base will be so small.
 

Neat Machine

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Jun 2, 2007
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This is not true. In fact from now on Sony is pushing both third parties and their studios to either make a PS4 game or a cross platform game Vita/PS3. We have already seen the first results of this with a few announcements from japanese developers.
About The Last Guardian it doesn't make a lot of sense to skip a PS3 version completely.
I guess the best approach would be to handle the situation like Nintendo did with Zelda on GC/Wii.
I really don't get the feeling that TLG will be a cross-gen title. First of all, the architectures are very different and it probably wouldn't make immediate sense financially. Secondly, the reason Sony would want TLG on PS4 is to drive PS4 adoption (which is smart, because you'd be getting a ton of 'gamers' who will buy a lot of your software on the system right off the bat). If the game is cross-gen, the attraction it brings to PS4 is almost completely diminished.

Lastly, and this is kind of a gut-feeling, is that TLG seems like a game (based on what little info we have, and off of Team Ico's past work) that exists right on the ceiling of a generation. I think that when it comes to TLG and PS4, if they made that decision then they would go ahead and break the shackles of PS3 limitation that was holding them back in the first place.

So there are like three really solid reasons why I wouldn't expect the game on both platforms. But who knows?

Yeah if its PS4 then I expect another 1 or 2 year wait, they won't blow a high profile game like this at launch or close to it when the install base will be so small.
I expect Sony to have a pretty impressive launch line up. It's not exactly blown either. With compelling software you have a serious early advantage in platform adoption, which is the most pivotal time to have an advantage. You get a bunch of the core gamers to decide on your system early and you've got a bunch of people dedicated to your system and ready to buy software, which provides another fundamental boost when third parties start to see high attach rates on the platform. Honestly I think the beginning of the generation is the absolute best time to focus first party efforts. You use your first parties to get people to decide on your system and then third parties jump on board and fill the library up while you work on the rest of your projects from a place of relative safety. Chances are that later buyers will still look at your launch games if they are big franchises/good games anyway, but someone has to bite the launch install base bullet to get people on the system and third parties can't be expected to do it.
 

jett

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Jun 6, 2004
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I'm assuming the opportunity costs for all of the people who wasted time working on assets that had to be scrapped with project restarts...is HUGE.

That's why I'm so sure that the team will get shut down. So much accumulated bloat / waste / mismanagement over the years...this project is the definition of development hell.



Sure about that?

http://www.geek.com/articles/games/the-average-salary-at-square-enix-japan-is-273000-20120629/
Those figures don't seem even remotely accurate.
 

BadWolf

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Apr 15, 2010
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I expect Sony to have a pretty impressive launch line up. It's not exactly blown either. With compelling software you have a serious early advantage in platform adoption, which is the most pivotal time to have an advantage. You get a bunch of the core gamers to decide on your system early and you've got a bunch of people dedicated to your system and ready to buy software, which provides another fundamental boost when third parties start to see high attach rates on the platform.
From Vita's launch I'm sure they have learned not to front load the launch and will space major releases much further apart.
 

Aquamarine

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May 24, 2012
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Dude whaaaaat. No way thats average. Those numbers are insane. You think the average artist or programmer at Sony is making $100,000? $300,000 at squenix? No way.
Absolutely not. I imagine that a large majority of Japanese employees at any studio are contractors for 3-6 months / however long they need to work to finish the assets they're working on.
 

Elios83

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Jun 30, 2004
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I really don't get the feeling that TLG will be a cross-gen title. First of all, the architectures are very different and it probably wouldn't make immediate sense financially. Secondly, the reason Sony would want TLG on PS4 is to drive PS4 adoption (which is smart, because you'd be getting a ton of 'gamers' who will buy a lot of your software on the system right off the bat). If the game is cross-gen, the attraction it brings to PS4 is almost completely diminished.

Lastly, and this is kind of a gut-feeling, is that TLG seems like a game (based on what little info we have, and off of Team Ico's past work) that exists right on the ceiling of a generation. I think that when it comes to TLG and PS4, if they made that decision then they would go ahead and break the shackles of PS3 limitation that was holding them back in the first place.

So there are like three really solid reasons why I wouldn't expect the game on both platforms. But who knows?
They won't throw away all the PS3 assets to make a 'real' PS4 game.
I think the game will be definetly on PS3 because it is the only platform with the installed base to make the money back. This is also reinforced by the fact that Yoshida said it's being released on PS3 just a few months ago.
BUT if they can make an enhanced PS4 version with higher res and frame rate, more effects, better controls and with this version not only they can fill the PS4 lineup a bit but they can also shift a few people from PS3 to PS4, then it would be the best of the two worlds.
 

darkside31337

Tomodachi wa Mahou
May 31, 2011
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Why PS4 when the install base will be low? lulz.
You could literally say that about -any- game.

Personally I think it makes a lot more sense as a PS4 title. This is not a game that is going to sell gangbusters no matter what the install base is but as a launch title or just early on for a new platform it will generate a lot more interest as a unique title with some legacy cache.
 

MrCookiepants

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Oct 17, 2010
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It's PS4. It's been PS4 for a long time now.
Holy balls. Just when I thought I couldn't be more hyped for the 20th.

Why PS4 when the install base will be low? lulz.
Resistance: FoM outsold its sequels. Same with the original Motorstorm. Sometimes the excitement surrounding a new system launch helps. And if the userbase grows large in the long run, it doesn't really make much of a difference.
 

Cornbread78

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Jul 27, 2009
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From Vita's launch I'm sure they have learned not to front load the launch and will space major releases much further apart.
They will after the launch period, but I would expect a huge line-up of 3rd party games at launch (MW4/BF4/EA sports, etc), then staggered 1st party titles throughout the year.
 

Elios83

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Jun 30, 2004
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That's more reassurance than what we've got from Square re: Versus.
Indeed that's the most important part of the news, that the game is real and Fumito Ueda is waiting for Sony to decide when to make announcements about it.
 

Aquamarine

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May 24, 2012
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They won't throw away all the PS3 assets to make a 'real' PS4 game.
I think the game will be definetly on PS3 because it is the only platform with the installed base to make the money back. This is also reinforced by the fact that Yoshida said it's being released on PS3 just a few months ago.
BUT if they can make an enhanced PS4 version with higher res and frame rate, more effects, better controls and with this version not only they can fill the PS4 lineup a bit but they can also shift a few people from PS3 to PS4, then it would be the best of the two worlds.
I'd like to see where you got the "Yoshida said it's being released on PS3 just a few months ago" information from.

I'm thinking he just said something like "It's still on track for development," which can mean anything.

-----If the game is definitely on the PS3, then why did Sony allocate 100% of their resources to publishing Vita games after the Vita came out? Why didn't Sony continue to make any PSP games whatsoever?

Putting a 1st-party PS3 game out after the PS4 releases is like putting a 1st-party Wii game out right now...it just doesn't make sense.
 

jgmo870

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Jul 29, 2011
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I'd like to see where you got the "Yoshida said it's being released on PS3 just a few months ago" information from.

I'm thinking he just said something like "It's still on track for development," which can mean anything.

-----If the game is definitely on the PS3, then why did Sony allocate 100% of their resources to publishing Vita games after the Vita came out? Why didn't Sony continue to make any PSP games whatsoever?

Putting a 1st-party PS3 game out after the PS4 releases is like putting a 1st-party Wii game out right now...it just doesn't make sense.
"But Yoshida insisted The Last Guardian remains a PS3 title. 'The game is developed on PS3,' he said."

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-08-15-sony-had-to-re-do-work-on-the-last-guardian-still-a-ps3-game
 

FlutterPuffs

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Apr 6, 2011
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I'd like to see where you got the "Yoshida said it's being released on PS3 just a few months ago" information from.

I'm thinking he just said something like "It's still on track for development," which can mean anything.

-----If the game is definitely on the PS3, then why did Sony allocate 100% of their resources to publishing Vita games after the Vita came out? Why didn't Sony continue to make any PSP games whatsoever?

Putting a 1st-party PS3 game out after the PS4 releases is like putting a 1st-party Wii game
out right now...it just doesn't make sense.
God of War 2?
 

Fox_Mulder

Rockefellers. Skull and Bones. Microsoft. Al Qaeda. A Cabal of Bankers. The melting point of steel. What do these things have in common? Wake up sheeple, the landfill wasn't even REAL!
Jun 22, 2010
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PS3 is the only place. dat 75> consoles solds
 

MikeE21286

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Jun 15, 2007
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How about this.....actually this makes too much sense so I hate myself for thinking about it.


They release The Last Guardian as a PS4 "exclusive".

12 months later they release a PS3 version to help recoup the costs.

They never mention the PS3 version that they are working on (or withholding) to anybody. They get all the benefits of the early adopters (the people who are likely into video games and pay attention to a game like The Last Guardian) to get a PS4 early.
 

hey_it's_that_dog

benevolent sexism
Sep 10, 2009
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How about this.....actually this makes too much sense so I hate myself for thinking about it.


They release The Last Guardian as a PS4 "exclusive".

12 months later they release a PS3 version to help recoup the costs.

They never mention the PS3 version that they are working on (or withholding) to anybody. They get all the benefits of the early adopters (the people who are likely into video games and pay attention to a game like The Last Guardian) to get a PS4 early.
If it's true that they can't get the game working because of tech problems/limitations then it really doesn't make sense at all.
 
Aug 17, 2012
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Wasn't the PSP barely supported by Sony before the Vita came out, unlike the PS3 that is getting a lot of exclusives this year? Also, Yoshida said last year that it was still in development for the PS3 and I doubt they would waste all the resources that went into that to port it and make it PS4 exclusive, at most it would be on both systems, but I don't remember Sony doing something similar with a non-sports game.
Also, you can't compare it to the PSP/PS Vita because there wasn't any game originally planned for the PSP for many years and then pushed to the Vita.
 

JollyWolf

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Jan 9, 2013
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They won't throw away all the PS3 assets to make a 'real' PS4 game.
I think the game will be definetly on PS3 because it is the only platform with the installed base to make the money back. This is also reinforced by the fact that Yoshida said it's being released on PS3 just a few months ago.
BUT if they can make an enhanced PS4 version with higher res and frame rate, more effects, better controls and with this version not only they can fill the PS4 lineup a bit but they can also shift a few people from PS3 to PS4, then it would be the best of the two worlds.
That is an easy way to kill any chance of people buying the PS4. Sony will want the maximum number of people to buy the PS4. Giving same first party games on both system will take away sales from people who would otherwise buy a ps4 due cheaper price. The enhancing benefit will not get people to move over to a more expensive console. Having a cheaper alternative will always beat out enhanced versions for a much higher price.
 

JollyWolf

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Jan 9, 2013
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Wasn't the PSP barely supported by Sony before the Vita came out, unlike the PS3 that is getting a lot of exclusives this year? Also, Yoshida said last year that it was still in development for the PS3 and I doubt they would waste all the resources that went into that to port it and make it PS4 exclusive, at most it would be on both systems, but I don't remember Sony doing something similar with a non-sports game.
Also, you can't compare it to the PSP/PS Vita because there wasn't any game originally planned for the PSP for many years and then pushed to the Vita.
Of course he would say that it was still being developed for the ps3, to say otherwise would be acknowledge the existence of the ps4.
 

ThreeSixty

December 16, 2009. 4:00 AM. THE LIGHT FIELD is the force. The mind. That guides. Controls.
Oct 1, 2012
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PS4 without a shadow of a doubt. If he's saying "look out for a future announcement from Sony" I wouldn't be surprised to see this at their PlayStation Meeting on the 20th. I think the game's so late in development now Sony would see no point in releasing this as one of the last titles for the PS3. Sony's actions this month clearly show they're completely focused on the PS4 and transitioning over to the next generation.

I wouldn't be surprised if The Last Guardian is now a PS4 launch title. It would also explain the game being "vapourware" for so long. They were holding it back for the PS4.
 

Aquamarine

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May 24, 2012
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Wasn't the PSP barely supported by Sony before the Vita came out, unlike the PS3 that is getting a lot of exclusives this year? Also, Yoshida said last year that it was still in development for the PS3 and I doubt they would waste all the resources that went into that to port it and make it PS4 exclusive, at most it would be on both systems, but I don't remember Sony doing something similar with a non-sports game.
Also, you can't compare it to the PSP/PS Vita because there wasn't any game originally planned for the PSP for many years and then pushed to the Vita.
2010 -> 9 PSP titles published by SCE
2011 -> 4 PSP titles published by SCE
(PS Vita gets released!)
2012 -> 0 PSP titles published by SCE

2012 -> 13 PS3 titles published by SCE
2013 -> 5 PS3 titles published by SCE (maybe 6-7)
(PS4 gets released!)
2014 -> 0 PS3 titles published by SCE

Sony is obviously scaling down PS3 development in a similar trend to how they approached the PSP.
 

Trevelyon

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Jun 8, 2004
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Why does everyone keep saying PS4? You must be joking. There is no way in hell that they would scrap all these years of PS3 development and start over from scratch on an even more unfamiliar, demanding piece of hardware.

You're out of your mind if you honestly believe that is the case.
It's PS4. It's been PS4 for a long time now.
Is it planned for launch/window?
I don't know, but I know it's been in development on Orbis for a long time now. It's platform has been questionable for nearly two years, but the last time it was restarted (it's been restarted a number of times), it was moved to Orbis.
How do you know this?
Former SCE employee
Just for those who missed it. Kenny was formally of Sony internal studio BigBig (UK)