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[RedShift]

I've been thinking about it, and I really think it's a mistake to not include the Greens in the TV debate UKIP is being invited to. For a start they're polling better than the LDs in a lot of cases, so it's unfair to include UKIP base don polling but not them. More though it would balance out the panel, and stop it just being 'The UKIP debate'. And it would mean a panel that didn't just consist of a legion of old rich white dudes who all spawned from the same couple of private schools.

 

[CyclopsRock]

I've been thinking about it, and I really think it's a mistake to not include the Greens in the TV debate UKIP is being invited to. For a start they're polling better than the LDs in a lot of cases, so it's unfair to include UKIP base don polling but not them. More though it would balance out the panel, and stop it just being 'The UKIP debate'. And it would mean a panel that didn't just consist of a legion of old rich white dudes who all spawned from the same couple of private schools.

I'm coming round to the idea, too, the more it appears that the Green could pick up a few seats. It's not the seats per se that I care about but their potential inclusion in a coalition.

That said, both Caroline Lucas and the leader of the Greens went to private schools too - different ones, admittedly, but still. Not exactly salt-of-the-earth'ers.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

I'm coming round to the idea, too, the more it appears that the Green could pick up a few seats. It's not the seats per se that I care about but their potential inclusion in a coalition.

That said, both Caroline Lucas and the leader of the Greens went to private schools too - different ones, admittedly, but still. Not exactly salt-of-the-earth'ers.

That's the exciting thing really. The Greens might only get a few seats, but they might still get in a coalition since that might be all Labout need! Latest uniform swing projection has them short of a majority by one.

 

[Masquerader]

I've been thinking about it, and I really think it's a mistake to not include the Greens in the TV debate UKIP is being invited to. For a start they're polling better than the LDs in a lot of cases, so it's unfair to include UKIP base don polling but not them. More though it would balance out the panel, and stop it just being 'The UKIP debate'. And it would mean a panel that didn't just consist of a legion of old rich white dudes who all spawned from the same couple of private schools.

WELL, there's this petition: https://www.change.org/p/bbc-itv-ch...rs-debates-ahead-of-the-2015-general-election

Note how close it is to reaching its target.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

We now have a total of three post-Rochester polls. Populus has Con 31% Lab 36% LD 9% UKIP 15% Green 5%. Ashcroft has Con 27% Lab 32% LD 7% UKIP 18% Green 7%. YouGov has Con 30% Lab 34% LD 6% UKIP 18% Green 6%. Ignoring methodological differences (dangerous), this can be treated roughly as 3,000 sample size poll with the result Con 29% Lab 34% LD 7% UKIP 17% UKIP 6%, and margin of error 1.8%. Rochester seems to have a) knocked down the Conservatives in UKIP's favour and b) caused a mild Labour resurgence. b) is somewhat puzzling, I have to admit. Perhaps Miliband's swift action against Emily Thornberry was well-received?

 

[QuicheFontaine]

We now have a total of three post-Rochester polls. Populus has Con 31% Lab 36% LD 9% UKIP 15% Green 5%. Ashcroft has Con 27% Lab 32% LD 7% UKIP 18% Green 7%. YouGov has Con 30% Lab 34% LD 6% UKIP 18% Green 6%. Ignoring methodological differences (dangerous), this can be treated roughly as 3,000 sample size poll with the result Con 29% Lab 34% LD 7% UKIP 17% UKIP 6%, and margin of error 1.8%. Rochester seems to have a) knocked down the Conservatives in UKIP's favour and b) caused a mild Labour resurgence. b) is somewhat puzzling, I have to admit. Perhaps Miliband's swift action against Emily Thornberry was well-received?

I take it that last one should be Green?

 

[pulsemyne]

We now have a total of three post-Rochester polls. Populus has Con 31% Lab 36% LD 9% UKIP 15% Green 5%. Ashcroft has Con 27% Lab 32% LD 7% UKIP 18% Green 7%. YouGov has Con 30% Lab 34% LD 6% UKIP 18% Green 6%. Ignoring methodological differences (dangerous), this can be treated roughly as 3,000 sample size poll with the result Con 29% Lab 34% LD 7% UKIP 17% UKIP 6%, and margin of error 1.8%. Rochester seems to have a) knocked down the Conservatives in UKIP's favour and b) caused a mild Labour resurgence. b) is somewhat puzzling, I have to admit. Perhaps Miliband's swift action against Emily Thornberry was well-received?

More likely that people were so pissed off at the constant stream of media bullshit targeted against miliband and the media deciding not to ackowledge how bad the tories did and focusing on a shit story, that they just though "Fuck this".
Also everyone realised that as soon as they read the "Danifesto" in the sun that the perception of White van dan being a chavy git was actually correct.

 

[Masquerader]

So, did anyone else notice that #CameronMustGo is trending on Twitter, and that the BBC is simply ignoring it? I hate how they're always in the pockets of whichever party is in Government.

 

[Empty]

So, did anyone else notice that #CameronMustGo is trending on Twitter, and that the BBC is simply ignoring it? I hate how they're always in the pockets of whichever party is in Government.

what do you want them to say.

i mean do the bbc normally report on random hashtags of the day/week?

 

[JonathanEx]

So, did anyone else notice that #CameronMustGo is trending on Twitter, and that the BBC is simply ignoring it? I hate how they're always in the pockets of whichever party is in Government.

To be quite rude but basically, it's a fucking hashtag who gives a shit.

 

[Nicktendo86]

So, did anyone else notice that #CameronMustGo is trending on Twitter, and that the BBC is simply ignoring it? I hate how they're always in the pockets of whichever party is in Government.

It has been trending since the weekend and the BBC are 'ignoring' it as it is a serious broadcaster and not a teenager's magazine.

 

[Masquerader]

what do you want them to say.

i mean do the bbc normally report on random hashtags of the day/week?

Uhm, even the slightest piece on how Cameron's popularity is uncertain? But we'll instead see Nigel Farage drinking a pint, or Ed Miliband eating a sandwich.

To be quite rude but basically, it's a fucking hashtag who gives a shit.

People.

It has been trending since the weekend and the BBC are 'ignoring' it as it is a serious broadcaster and not a teenager's magazine.

Those dumb teenagers know nothing!

 

[Deleted member 231381]

I take it that last one should be Green?

You take correctly. Posting from phone, sorry.

 

[JonathanEx]

It's a circle of people who never liked Cameron saying they still don't. There's no meaningful change in popular opinion that can be noted on it. See Indyref, vocal discussions on Twitter aren't necessarily representative.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Crab sets his phone up to autocorrect "Greens" to "UKIP" confirmed

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Crab sets his phone up to autocorrect "Greens" to "UKIP" confirmed

I actually typed ILIP instead of UKIP once and had it corrected to ISIL, which made me laugh.

 

[Nicktendo86]

Uhm, even the slightest piece on how Cameron's popularity is uncertain? But we'll instead see Nigel Farage drinking a pint, or Ed Miliband eating a sandwich.



People.



Those dumb teenagers know nothing!

We already have a thing to measure the support of the leaders and they are slightly more scientific than a load of idiots tweeting herp derp Tories suck, Cameron uses his dead son to score points hur hur. They are called polls and Cameron is significantly more popular than Miliband and Clegg.

 

[Colin.]

It's a circle of people who never liked Cameron saying they still don't. There's no meaningful change in popular opinion that can be noted on it. See Indyref, vocal discussions on Twitter aren't necessarily representative.

With the indy ref, a considerable factor for "Yes" related trends being much higher in Scotland was down to the age demographics. As those under 55 were the most likely to have voted that way (based on the poll that came out after) and are also more active on average online, compared with the over 55's. So yeah, social media trends aren't much of an accurate measure to determine a big shift in public opinion.

 

[Maledict]

With the indy ref, a considerable factor for "Yes" related trends being much higher in Scotland was down to the age demographics. As those under 55 were the most likely to have voted that way (based on the poll that came out after) and are also more active on average online, compared with the over 55's. So yeah, social media trends aren't much of an accurate measure to determine a big shift in public opinion.

You should ignore that poll BTW - due to its sample size and methodology, its basically worthless.

I also goes against every other poll taken before the election, which showed the majority of support for independence came from the 30 to 55 age bracket (i.e. people who grew up / lived through the 80s and 90s under Tory government). Young people in Scotland are the age bracket most likely to identify as both Scottish *and* British for example.

A lot was written after the election about the youth vote, and it all was based on that one very flawed exit poll. Bad journalism really.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

You should ignore that poll BTW - due to its sample size and methodology, its basically worthless.

I also goes against every other poll taken before the election, which showed the majority of support for independence came from the 30 to 55 age bracket (i.e. people who grew up / lived through the 80s and 90s under Tory government). Young people in Scotland are the age bracket most likely to identify as both Scottish *and* British for example.

A lot was written after the election about the youth vote, and it all was based on that one very flawed exit poll. Bad journalism really.

Yup. Pretty much every other poll showed 24-30 being much more supportive of independence than 16-24, for example. if I recall correctly, the key independence demographic was 30-44. The actual poll itself is sound - 2000 is a big sample size, and you can draw firm conclusions about the nation as a whole from it. However, the indvidual crossbreaks are tiny. The 16-17 group has 12 people in it, for example.

edit : obviously it's not solely Thatcher, but the fact the key demographic for independence is those who were students/young adults in the late '80s is sort of impressive in terms of how long that hatred has endured.

 

[NinjaFridge]

In other Northern Ireland news, a DUP minister said that the wish list from Sinn Féin shall be treated like toilet paper. No, I'm not joking. That's how immature they are.



Let me put it to you this way...

The politicians are useless, old, and irrelevant, even among politicians. The politics in NI are based entirely on religion, with other aspects such as human dignity, gay rights, gender quality, religious equality, and respect thrown out of the window. When the parties feel that they are in fear of being outed as the irrelevant morons that they are, they incite protests against flags. Should a Union Jack be taken down, they will successfully convince thousands to start aggressive protests against the Catholics. I give it 3 weeks until the next one, as they're starting to look unstable again. But don't worry, they'll start protests to draw the ire away from them for another year or so. Meanwhile, Sinn Féin sits there like an extreme Nick Clegg, happy to be in a comfty, high-paying job, and letting the DUP poke fun at them all the time.

Everyone will be surprised when they all start dying of old age soon. Probably because they dye their hair to look younger and more appealing, when they have nothing new to offer. But of course, people vote for them anyway. Trust me, the reason I'm somewhat vested in UK politics is because NI politics are absolutely broken, slovenly, corrupt, violent, and just awful in every way.

Arlene Foster on utv saying that the DUP want equality. Same DUP that thinks homosexuality is wrong and wont let gay people get married and don't like them donating blood.

 

[kharma45]

Arlene Foster on utv saying that the DUP want equality. Same DUP that thinks homosexuality is wrong and wont let gay people get married and don't like them donating blood.

The Spotlight investigation into their expenses was delicious.

 

[RedShift]

It's actually pretty impressive how long #CameronMustGo has been trending. I know Twitter is more popular among likely leftward leaning voters but still, it's been there like a week now. I thought Twitter's algorithm usually pushed down long time trends.

 

[Zaph]

Would love to know who their suggestions are, because holy shit being stuck between Miliband and Farage is a scary alternative.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Would love to know who their suggestions are, because holy shit being stuck between Miliband and Farage is a scary alternative.

Yeah, it does seem a bit odd. For all his faults, he's the most liberal Conservative prime minister the country has ever had. As such, it basically boils down to "We don't like the party in government" which is, like, what elections are for. It's not like he's just grabbed control of the judiciary and enacted temporary executive powers over the legislature or something Arab-Springy like that.

 

[Nicktendo86]

Miliband going on about the NHS again today. He really has nowhere else to turn. Looks desperate.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

Miliband going on about the NHS again today. He really has nowhere else to turn. Looks desperate.

Balls was talking about the NHS the other day, and how it should be funded using the mansion tax (I think). Maybe the NHS is going to be their main point in the GE campaign?

 

[Maledict]

Balls was talking about the NHS the other day, and how it should be funded using the mansion tax (I think). Maybe the NHS is going to be their main point in the GE campaign?

It absolutelyis - they've been signalling that way for a while. It's the reason behind the comment about cameron using the NHS and his son - it's a very powerful defense for the conservatives, and one they want to neutralise somehow. The NHS is (from my understanding) pretty much the only issue that labour rates higher than the conservatives on at the moment so they are playing to their strenght have.

Personally, I don't think its a winner - whilst I disagree with the decision to shield the NHS from the cuts, it does give the conservatives a lot of defense against labour's accusations.

 

[Saiyar]

Balls was talking about the NHS the other day, and how it should be funded using the mansion tax (I think). Maybe the NHS is going to be their main point in the GE campaign?

Come the general election the NHS and education should be pretty easy wins for Labour. They just need to figure out a way to attack the Tories on the Economy.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

It absolutelyis - they've been signalling that way for a while. It's the reason behind the comment about cameron using the NHS and his son - it's a very powerful defense for the conservatives, and one they want to neutralise somehow. The NHS is (from my understanding) pretty much the only issue that labour rates higher than the conservatives on at the moment so they are playing to their strenght have.

Personally, I don't think its a winner - whilst I disagree with the decision to shield the NHS from the cuts, it does give the conservatives a lot of defense against labour's accusations.

Ugh, really didn't like that bit at the Tory conference where Dave started shouting about "how dare they say I not care!" etc. I think the distinction between "you don't care about the NHS" and "we think your party's policy decisions aren't in the best interest of the NHS" is pretty stark and most people get that. No need to bring up personal tragedy.

 

[Nicktendo86]

Come the general election the NHS and education should be pretty easy wins for Labour. They just need to figure out a way to attack the Tories on the Economy.

Not sure why education would be easy, is it not fairly accepted that standards are up as are reading and writing?

They have no answer on the economy. None.

 

[Zaph]

Come the general election the NHS and education should be pretty easy wins for Labour. They just need to figure out a way to attack the Tories on the Economy.

I can't wait to see how they figure that one out. I'm about as left as you can get, but how on earth will Labour go after the Tories on the economy when our growth is beating all forecasts while most of Europe is crumbling? Focus on wage stagnation?

 

[Masquerader]

Arlene Foster on utv saying that the DUP want equality. Same DUP that thinks homosexuality is wrong and wont let gay people get married and don't like them donating blood.

The Spotlight investigation into their expenses was delicious.

Don't worry. We LGBTs don't like them either. c;

I can't wait to see how they figure that one out. I'm about as left as you can get, but how on earth will Labour go after the Tories on the economy when our growth is beating all forecasts while most of Europe is crumbling? Focus on wage stagnation?

Unfortunately, yes. If they said anything else, it'd be seen as being far too lax, or far too extreme. They backed themselves in between rock and a hard place.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Ugh, really didn't like that bit at the Tory conference where Dave started shouting about "how dare they say I not care!" etc. I think the distinction between "you don't care about the NHS" and "we think your party's policy decisions aren't in the best interest of the NHS" is pretty stark and most people get that. No need to bring up personal tragedy.

It's tricky though, because often it's not "the Conservatives have damaging healthcare policies", but rather the far more personal (albeit general) charge of "they don't care about the NHS". That is, the difference between incorrect policies and active disdain for the institution, and it's the latter he was hoping to rebuff with all that Ivan business.

 

[Saiyar]

Not sure why education would be easy, is it not fairly accepted that standards are up as are reading and writing?

They have no answer on the economy. None.

The Tories flagship education policy has been a disaster and the UK is falling behind the rest of the developed world in terms of standards. Add in the increase in cost of higher education and it should be easy.

 

[CyclopsRock]

The Tories flagship education policy has been a disaster and the UK is falling behind the rest of the developed world in terms of standards. Add in the increase in cost of higher education and it should be easy.

A disaster by what metric?

And IMO the increased cost of further education gets a thumbs up from me.

 

[jimbor]

It's tricky though, because often it's not "the Conservatives have damaging healthcare policies", but rather the far more personal (albeit general) charge of "they don't care about the NHS". That is, the difference between incorrect policies and active disdain for the institution, and it's the latter he was hoping to rebuff with all that Ivan business.

I think the 'No top down reorganisation of the NHS' and then doing exactly that, backdoor privatisation and all should leave them a bit weak but then again, it's not like labour are that much different. Strange.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

It's tricky though, because often it's not "the Conservatives have damaging healthcare policies", but rather the far more personal (albeit general) charge of "they don't care about the NHS". That is, the difference between incorrect policies and active disdain for the institution, and it's the latter he was hoping to rebuff with all that Ivan business.

Hmm, well it still makes me shift in my seat a bit watching it. It just feels a bit...grubby to me to mention your dead kid for any kind of political gain (or if not 'gain' then some sort of exemption from criticism on an issue). You can glean something about his principles from his using the NHS as opposed to BUPA (which he could clearly afford), but I don't think it's right for him to put the matter in the spotlight. You could say he was doing it as a response, but still, he didn't really gain any respect from me by doing that.

 

[CyclopsRock]

I think the 'No top down reorganisation of the NHS' and then doing exactly that, backdoor privatisation and all should leave them a bit weak but then again, it's not like labour are that much different. Strange.

Well exactly, which is why the choice to make it about how mean the Tories are rather than about how wrong they are sort of odd. I mean, how are you meant to defend yourself against a charge like "being mean"?

Hmm, well it still makes me shift in my seat a bit watching it. It just feels a bit...grubby to me to mention your dead kid for any kind of political gain (or if not 'gain' then some sort of exemption from criticism on an issue). You can glean something about his principles from his using the NHS as opposed to BUPA (which he could clearly afford), but I don't think it's right for him to put the matter in the spotlight. You could say he was doing it as a response, but still, he didn't really gain any respect from me by doing that.

Well, fair enough. But personally, if he's being accused of not caring about the NHS, not caring about its staff etc and he has this strong emotional attachment to it because of what they did for his kid, I dunno. What's he meanna do?

 

[Jezbollah]

The Tories flagship education policy has been a disaster and the UK is falling behind the rest of the developed world in terms of standards. Add in the increase in cost of higher education and it should be easy.

I dont know where you get your numbers from.

Comparing the PISA reports from 2010 to 2013 there is little change. No falling behind, but no catching up.

Looking at the data from the reports, there is a net +15 for Reading, -10 for Maths and +9 for Science from the scores from England, Scotland, Wales and NI.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...y-vip-paedophile-ring-say-police-9883509.html


http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/nov/22/media-gagged-westminster-child-abuse-ring


120 days of sodom par for the course on baby rape island.

 

[Zaph]

Enjoying Coked Out Osborne making the rounds

 

[Jezbollah]

Enjoying Coked Out Osborne making the rounds

There's got to be a few good ones of Ed Balls going radio rental.

 

[Masquerader]

A disaster by what metric?

And IMO the increased cost of further education gets a thumbs up from me.

Why? Just wondering. It doesn't seem that good to me.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Why? Just wondering. It doesn't seem that good to me.

I think it's fairer. Whilst it's true that an economy generally benefits from a well educated workforce, the chief beneficiary is always the person who gets the degree. The system we have now means that there are grants, loans, bursaries etc available so that no one's personal or parental income stops them from attending; The only thing that stops them attending is the toss up on whether they think the debt accrued is worth the benefits. I think this is actually a rather healthy question to ask people. Furthermore, you only start paying back the loans when you earn over £21k, and even then it's a small amount. You really only start paying significant amounts of money when you're earning well above average salary - which, imo, is right, since again, the degree holder is the chief beneficiary of the education they've received. This, to me, is a far more attractive prospect than everyone else, many of whom didn't go to university, paying for it instead.

 

[Masquerader]

I think it's fairer. Whilst it's true that an economy generally benefits from a well educated workforce, the chief beneficiary is always the person who gets the degree. The system we have now means that there are grants, loans, bursaries etc available so that no one's personal or parental income stops them from attending; The only thing that stops them attending is the toss up on whether they think the debt accrued is worth the benefits. I think this is actually a rather healthy question to ask people. Furthermore, you only start paying back the loans when you earn over £21k, and even then it's a small amount. You really only start paying significant amounts of money when you're earning well above average salary - which, imo, is right, since again, the degree holder is the chief beneficiary of the education they've received. This, to me, is a far more attractive prospect than everyone else, many of whom didn't go to university, paying for it instead.

... Wow, didn't think of it that way. While I suppose I was rather worried about having to get grants and bursaries for further education, I guess that they being actually available makes up for the increased costs. Although I have had to change plans and am just going for a job after 2 years of College, I don't think that Uni is quite as difficult to pay for as I originally thought, so thanks for that! And yeah, that's very fair loan reimbursement. Although I do have one concern about it, in that I and an increasingly large amount of college-goers don't really have much ideas as to what to pursue, even when it comes to University. Obviously, getting into any sort of debt sounds awful when you aren't even sure if you want to pursue the career which you are getting debt for. Probably my fault, though. Again though, the increase of further education prices actually isn't a bad idea at all... For most people, I guess. Still... Firmly puts me off of University, though. Sorry.

That said, I'm still extremely wary of the current government's secondary education system ideas. No doubt the GCSEs have run their course, and do need to be revamped, instead of being mildly updated each year. But I don't think they're going about it the correct way at all. Having one 3 hour-long exam at the end of the year would have certainly demoralised me, and plenty of other people who took a while to get their shit together. It just seems to benefit the kids who have much of their academic potential realised before their secondary qualification opportunities come around, and any late bloomers will be done for. Seeing as secondary qualifications are required for even the most basic of jobs, plenty of people who would have otherwise worked well during secondary school will have no chance should they fail just once. The current system is outdated, but the proposed systems sound unfair. I haven't kept up-to-date with school policies since Gove left though, so I may be wrong on that regard (do feel free to correct me). Sorry for sort of changing the subject.

 

[War Peaceman]

Education policy will not be attacked by Labour in any significant matter, I'd imagine. Perhaps some of the sketchy elements of Gove's department would have been a good point to criticise but is no longer relevant.

The allowance of religious free schools could be a target/point of difference. However the policy pursued by Gove/the coalition is Labour's policy; continuing the work of Lord Adonis. To criticise it would be stupid and counter-intuitive.

University tuition is a big open goal for Labour. Simple to implement and cheap policies such as subsidising science/engineering/computer science degrees to artificially reduce tuition without upending the system would be perfect. I do not expect this to happen.

 

[8bit]

Smith Commission findings due tomorrow by the sound of it, doesn't seem that anyone listened to Labour's wishes for Scotland.

 

[kitch9]

Enjoying Coked Out Osborne making the rounds

Lol, when was that, dudes proper doing the intense coke zone out face

 

[Nicktendo86]

So apparently a crowd has gathered outside Charing Cross police station protesting against Ferguson chanting 'killer police off our streets'.

I weep for the stupidity of some people I really do.