• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • The Politics forum has been nuked. Please do not bring political discussion to the rest of the site, or you will be removed. Thanks.

UK weekly physical sales: 77% of sales of Metro Exodus Complete Edition were on PS5

Kerotan

Member
Oct 31, 2018
2,689
3,501
475
It's not even that, there's no new games for Xbox in general. Last game was The Medium, which was average. They have no big titles at all.
So by that logic metro should be selling a lot on xbox because they've not many games to play.

PS5 taking over it seems and keeping the AAA model alive. Metro as a series also began a console exclusive on xbox, the original wasn't on PS3 until after the sequel launched.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: phil_t98
Dec 10, 2020
1,840
4,009
380
They were profitable in 2019 and Gamepass grew a lot since then. Can't imagine why they wouldn't be profitable.

Was it? You said Xbox was profitable in previoua post. So, Xbox division as a whole can be profitable in the end, doesn't mean hardware or Gamepass are

Same as Netflix wasn't profitable for years. Same can be applied for Gamepass.
 
Last edited:
Dec 10, 2020
1,840
4,009
380
So just by curiosity but how do you explain the 4:1 ratio PS vs XBOX for Retail sales during the 2 first week and finally these 2:1 ratio ? (to be clear, that's not an attack against you)

I think you see for some reason a PC is included. During launch week PC wasn't there in sales split nor in second week i think.
 

Bernd Lauert

Member
Apr 15, 2018
5,727
17,346
705
Was it? You said Xbox was profitable in previoua post. So, Xbox division as a whole can be profitable in the end, doesn't mean hardware or Gamepass are
So hardware isn't profitable, Gamepass isn't profitable, Xbox doesn't sell any physical games... so how is the entire division still profitable? You think they're only living off XBL? I mean it's possible but kinda unlikely.
Same as Netflix wasn't profitable for years. Same can be applied for Gamepass.
If Microsoft had 200 first party studios, maybe. Netflix outspends Xbox easily ten to one.
 
Last edited:

Topher

Gold Member
Sep 25, 2020
3,326
10,106
630
Atlanta, Georgia, USA
So hardware isn't profitable, Gamepass isn't profitable, Xbox doesn't sell any physical games... so how is the entire division still profitable? You think they're only living off XBL? I mean it's possible but kinda unlikely.

Probably the same way they were profitable most of this past generation: XBL and game sales/microtransactions. I think this is still the bread and butter of gaming. Game Pass makes for good PR, but I don't see any indication that subscriptions have become the dominant revenue stream in gaming.
 

Bramble

Member
Jan 15, 2016
404
426
415
So hardware isn't profitable, Gamepass isn't profitable, Xbox doesn't sell any physical games... so how is the entire division still profitable? You think they're only living off XBL? I mean it's possible but kinda unlikely.

If Microsoft had 200 first party studios, maybe. Netflix outspends Xbox easily ten to one.

I don't believe it is profitable at all. Without Microsoft behind it, Xbox would have ceased to exist years ago. They're in it for the longer run I suppose.
 

mckmas8808

Ah. Peace and quiet. #ADayWithoutAWoman
May 24, 2005
47,741
14,855
2,000
Yeah, there's no comparison. Obviously Xbox is going to win this generation because of their offering. Gamepass is a big threat, there's just no way of comparing paying 15 dollars a month to 70 just for a digital game.

I'm actually regretting buying a PS5 but there's no way I would buy an Xbox because they have no games yet. But the moment those Bethesda games start hitting and if the other studios pan out
then it's game over.

How are you defining "winning a generation" if you don't agree that game and consoles sales matter anymore? How will you know when it's "game over" for Sony?
 

Bernd Lauert

Member
Apr 15, 2018
5,727
17,346
705
How are you defining "winning a generation" if you don't agree that game and consoles sales matter anymore? How will you know when it's "game over" for Sony?
We can always compare revenue. Last year Playstation had $25b and Xbox had $15b. We'll see how it goes from here.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mckmas8808

Rolla

Banned
Jan 26, 2020
1,369
5,736
675
So hardware isn't profitable, Gamepass isn't profitable, Xbox doesn't sell any physical games... so how is the entire division still profitable? You think they're only living off XBL? I mean it's possible but kinda unlikely.

If Microsoft had 200 first party studios, maybe. Netflix outspends Xbox easily ten to one.

You need to read the Microsoft quarterly reports. They announce gaming "Revenue" not "Profit" Microsoft's gaming division is way bigger than XBOX. While XBOX is a segment, it is not the totality.

Revenue can include how much Microsoft pays a developer to put their game into a service. Or pays a manufacturer to produce a halo T-shirt, business related flights and even the green game case.
 

Heisenberg007

Member
Nov 16, 2020
2,798
9,673
455
We can always compare revenue. Last year Playstation had $25b and Xbox had $15b. We'll see how it goes from here.
Not exactly.

It's $13B, not $15B. Also, that $13B isn't just for Xbox. It's for Windows, Xbox, and Surface combined. On the other hand, that $25B revenue was only for PlayStation Studios.

Microsoft breaks down its sprawling businesses into three main buckets: Productivity and Business Processes, Intelligent Cloud, and More Personal Computing. The More Personal Computing bucket includes Windows, Surface, Xbox, and search, and it has contributed $13 billion to Microsoft’s overall $41.7 billion this quarter. That’s around 31 percent. -- Source
 

Bernd Lauert

Member
Apr 15, 2018
5,727
17,346
705
Revenue can include how much Microsoft pays a developer to put their game into a service. Or pays a manufacturer to produce a halo T-shirt, business related flights and even the green game case.
All of that is... not revenue? Maybe I'm missing your point.
 

Bernd Lauert

Member
Apr 15, 2018
5,727
17,346
705
Not exactly.

It's $13B, not $15B. Also, that $13B isn't just for Xbox. It's for Windows, Xbox, and Surface combined. On the other hand, that $25B revenue was only for PlayStation Studios.
You're mixing up numbers. I posted yearly revenue, you posted quarterly numbers.


And no, the $25B revenue is not just Playstation Studios (that'd be insane). It's the total gaming related revenue.

 

DynamiteCop!

Banned
Mar 3, 2018
5,091
12,671
870
How is it more geared to digital than a PS4 or PS5? This excuse doesn't work as third party digital percentages align with PS digital percentages meaning the platforms likely align too unless xbox sales are negligible.

If the physical data was truly worthless then it wouldn't be happening every week with every release. There is clearly a pattern. Xbox with low sales may be getting less stock and shelf space now in some stores but it's the low sales that caused that to begin with.


Only if you're used to low budget games. $110M isn't even out of the ordinary.
Did you really just ask me how Xbox is geared towards digital? Their entire game model is based upon a digital subscription. To get many of the benefits on the platform you have to be digital. Play Anywhere is digital-only, quick resume only benefits digital use. The only reason Microsoft console still have Optical drives it's for compatibility with previous software.

The PlayStation and Nintendo crowd are the last detractors in the market. Xbox is going the way a PC in terms of basically rendering physical media obsolete.
 

Heisenberg007

Member
Nov 16, 2020
2,798
9,673
455
You're mixing up numbers. I posted yearly revenue, you posted quarterly numbers.


And no, the $25B revenue is not just Playstation Studios (that'd be insane). It's the total gaming related revenue.


Xbox:

Not sure how that information is correct. According to MS's official transcript for Q3 2021 Earnings Report (FY21 Q3):

Revenue in More Personal Computing was $13.0 billion and increased 19% (up 16% in constant currency), with the following business highlights:
  • Windows OEM revenue increased 10%
  • Windows Commercial products and cloud services revenue increased 10% (up 7% in constant currency)
  • Xbox content and services revenue increased 34% (up 32% in constant currency)
  • Search advertising revenue excluding traffic acquisition costs increased 17% (up 14% in constant currency)
  • Surface revenue increased 12% (up 7% in constant currency)

EDIT: Okay, so we are talking about annual vs. quarter. All clear.

But the Sony numbers (PlayStation division) is correct.

Sony:

That was for just PlayStation. Games & Network Services are PlayStation, which includes PlayStation hardware, PlayStation software, and PlayStation services (PSN, PS+, PS Now). PlayStation Music is separate (which publishes games like Fate Grand Order.





Source: Sony's Official FY2020 Earnings Report.
 
Last edited:

iHaunter

Member
Sep 6, 2015
3,245
3,811
625
So by that logic metro should be selling a lot on xbox because they've not many games to play.

PS5 taking over it seems and keeping the AAA model alive. Metro as a series also began a console exclusive on xbox, the original wasn't on PS3 until after the sequel launched.
It's not a new game though, just a remaster.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: mckmas8808

Thirty7ven

Sony make cringe trainers.
Apr 13, 2020
4,324
16,654
660
The PlayStation and Nintendo crowd are the last detractors in the market. Xbox is going the way a PC in terms of basically rendering physical media obsolete.

Would be nice if you had some facts to back up your opinion, because fact is that for the quarter ending Jun 30 last year, digital represented 74% of sales. This number increased to 79% in Q4. Playstation of course.

I'm guessing you'll just keep peddling bs though.
 
Last edited:

Three

Member
Oct 26, 2014
6,585
4,375
690
Did you really just ask me how Xbox is geared towards digital? Their entire game model is based upon a digital subscription. To get many of the benefits on the platform you have to be digital. Play Anywhere is digital-only, quick resume only benefits digital use. The only reason Microsoft console still have Optical drives it's for compatibility with previous software.

The PlayStation and Nintendo crowd are the last detractors in the market. Xbox is going the way a PC in terms of basically rendering physical media obsolete.
I asked how it is more geared towards digital and frankly you didn't give me a good answer. I mean PS+ is geared towards digital distribution, PS Now is geared towards digital distribution. Quick resume only supporting digital seems like a dumb limitation (is it really like that?) considering the game is installed even when you buy physical.

Data doesn't support what you are saying because percentages provided by third party and Sony align whereas if xbox was significantly more digital it would skew the third party data.
 
Last edited:

Bernd Lauert

Member
Apr 15, 2018
5,727
17,346
705
Xbox:

Not sure how that information is correct. According to MS's official transcript for Q3 2021 Earnings Report (FY21 Q3):




EDIT: Okay, so we are talking about annual vs. quarter. All clear.

But the Sony numbers (PlayStation division) is correct.

Sony:

That was for just PlayStation. Games & Network Services are PlayStation, which includes PlayStation hardware, PlayStation software, and PlayStation services (PSN, PS+, PS Now). PlayStation Music is separate (which publishes games like Fate Grand Order.





Source: Sony's Official FY2020 Earnings Report.
I was confused because you said Playstation Studios. So yeah it's 25b vs 15b.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Heisenberg007

Bernd Lauert

Member
Apr 15, 2018
5,727
17,346
705
The reason why you "think" the way you do is because your equating revenue to profit. When in reality they are two vastly different things.
The examples you listed are simply not revenue. Has nothing to do with profit.
 

Thirty7ven

Sony make cringe trainers.
Apr 13, 2020
4,324
16,654
660
Sales are not equal to marketshare nor profits.

This one is a doozy. Console market share is defined by sales, and gaming market share is defined by revenue. Don't bother trying to create new definitions, you can't will it into existence.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Topher

Yselacrey00

Banned
Nov 20, 2018
1,353
1,652
520
Sure there is. If the game I want to play isn't available in a subscription then that subscription could be 50 cents a month and it doesn't matter.
But gamepass doesn't stop devs from selling the game. What you're talking about is exclusive games which at that point is just a matter of taste. Remember, this is if Xbox develops great games that can match to Sony. Otherwise it wont matter if you give the games for free, people still wont play it.
 

Topher

Gold Member
Sep 25, 2020
3,326
10,106
630
Atlanta, Georgia, USA
But gamepass doesn't stop devs from selling the game. What you're talking about is exclusive games which at that point is just a matter of taste. Remember, this is if Xbox develops great games that can match to Sony. Otherwise it wont matter if you give the games for free, people still wont play it.

I'm not talking about exclusive games at all. I'm talking about the AAA third party games that are the big draws for the vast majority of gamers out there. Some gamers only ever play Call of Duty. Game Pass does nothing for them. If you are just talking about exclusives then like you said, it is a matter of taste. In that case, a subscription or a retail game price isn't going to change my taste or anyone else's. So again, you cannot simply break this down into $15 a month versus $70 a game. There is a heck of a lot more going on that that.
 

Heisenberg007

Member
Nov 16, 2020
2,798
9,673
455
Did you really just ask me how Xbox is geared towards digital? Their entire game model is based upon a digital subscription. To get many of the benefits on the platform you have to be digital. Play Anywhere is digital-only, quick resume only benefits digital use. The only reason Microsoft console still have Optical drives it's for compatibility with previous software.

The PlayStation and Nintendo crowd are the last detractors in the market. Xbox is going the way a PC in terms of basically rendering physical media obsolete.
You're making a lot of assumptions though.

What is the Xbox digital sales ratio as compared to PlayStation? Because you're making it sound like Xbox has a significantly higher digital sales ratio than its competitors. I'm assuming you have the numbers.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Redtemplar

Ammogeddon

Member
Jul 14, 2014
680
253
535
Well it’s £16 for the gold edition if you have PS+ so I’m not surprised. With the next gen update just releasing it’s a no brainer.

I'm kicking myself as I got the gold edition for XSX for £32 before checking, doh.
 

assurdum

Banned
Aug 14, 2020
3,799
6,546
530
I'm not surprised at all that people who already own a game via Gamepass did not also go out and buy a physical copy at retail - why would anyone do this.

However, it does beg the question: Has this hurt Microsoft's relationship with retailers? And by extension, does XBOX brand or does consumer awareness get affected when people walk into TRU and Walmart and see giant (red) sections for Nintendo, Blue Sections for Playstation, and almost nothing for Xbox? The xbox sections in my local walmarts and TRUs are shrinking every time I go into the store. How likely is the Merchant to keep allocating shelf space when the supplier is cutting them out of the profit loop? Obviously Netflix doesn't need merchant shelf space to succeed, but that's still a bit of apples to oranges comparison. People still need a place to buy the consoles and controllers for the time being, and around here anyways parents still like to buy actual things to wrap up for under the christmas tree. I'm sure Microsoft has considered and calculated for this, and maybe the game pass revenue is so good it outweighs the negatives
Or more simply MS can't give a fuck to the consequences for the others companies and just care to sell their Gamepass subscription. It's their typical behaviour.
 

Heisenberg007

Member
Nov 16, 2020
2,798
9,673
455
Well it’s £16 for the gold edition if you have PS+ so I’m not surprised. With the next gen update just releasing it’s a no brainer.

I'm kicking myself as I got the gold edition for XSX for £32 before checking, doh.
FYI -- This data is for physical sales only.
 
Last edited:

mckmas8808

Ah. Peace and quiet. #ADayWithoutAWoman
May 24, 2005
47,741
14,855
2,000
The brand. Whatever is associated to Xbox is a success. Accept the reality.

But the guy he was responding to said, Xbox will become a bigger brand than Playstation due to GamePass. Do you believe that also?
 

Yselacrey00

Banned
Nov 20, 2018
1,353
1,652
520
So you've created a scenario where nobody can judge MS on their success or failure. Yet, are you willing to say that they'll pass Playstation without defining how.
What did I say? You can clearly judge microsoft by marketshare and profits. How are you supposed to judge them by sells when they are shifting to a subscription service? Judge them by amount of subscribers and by market share of certain games, for example, how many people play certain games on their platform compared to Sony's. Is it that hard? Because we can say then Sony is doing really bad because they have no suscribers at all compared to Microsoft but it would be stupid too.
 

Yselacrey00

Banned
Nov 20, 2018
1,353
1,652
520
I'm not talking about exclusive games at all. I'm talking about the AAA third party games that are the big draws for the vast majority of gamers out there. Some gamers only ever play Call of Duty. Game Pass does nothing for them. If you are just talking about exclusives then like you said, it is a matter of taste. In that case, a subscription or a retail game price isn't going to change my taste or anyone else's. So again, you cannot simply break this down into $15 a month versus $70 a game. There is a heck of a lot more going on that that.
Obviously, but I'm talking about people that only buy one console. What's their reasoning to buy certain console? Games, features and price. 2 out of 3 Microsoft already has won, they just don't have games which is the most important one. The moment they have games obviously people are gonna shift because they won't be able to afford both.
 

Yselacrey00

Banned
Nov 20, 2018
1,353
1,652
520
People will pay $20 for Game Pass Ultimate when they add family share. Maybe evwn more.
Lol, you guys are crazy. You actually think there are families playing video games all the time? Like theres a kid in the living room and another in his room and the mother in hers all playing video games like if they were watching a movie?

My god, get out of Neogaf for a minute.
 

IntentionalPun

Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
Aug 28, 2019
8,951
16,481
660
Well sure.. when no-one had heard of it, and 6 years removed from launching streaming...

Netflix, as a company focused on streaming, has never posted a loss.

Last time they posted a loss was 2002.
 
Last edited:

mckmas8808

Ah. Peace and quiet. #ADayWithoutAWoman
May 24, 2005
47,741
14,855
2,000
What did I say? You can clearly judge microsoft by marketshare and profits. How are you supposed to judge them by sells when they are shifting to a subscription service? Judge them by amount of subscribers and by market share of certain games, for example, how many people play certain games on their platform compared to Sony's. Is it that hard? Because we can say then Sony is doing really bad because they have no suscribers at all compared to Microsoft but it would be stupid too.

I understand the profits part. But how are you doing that in "marketshare" for certain games? Lets use Call of Duty as our example. Lets so CoD sells 10 million copies on PS consoles and 4 million copies on Xbox consoles. Are would we figure out the marketshare between the two when Gamepass is included (assuming Call of Duty would be in GP)?

- By total number of online players?
- By total number of concurrent online players?
- What about the gamers that bought CoD, but don't play online?
- What if someone streamed CoD for 10 minutes on Xcloud and stopped playing it? Do they count as a Call of Duty player for Xbox?
- What if someone downloads CoD from Gamepass, but never plays the game? Do they count as a Call of Duty player for Xbox?
- What is a stream worth?
 

Topher

Gold Member
Sep 25, 2020
3,326
10,106
630
Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Obviously, but I'm talking about people that only buy one console. What's their reasoning to buy certain console? Games, features and price. 2 out of 3 Microsoft already has won, they just don't have games which is the most important one. The moment they have games obviously people are gonna shift because they won't be able to afford both.

Yep. Games are most important, but I seriously doubt you are going to see people abandoning PlayStation in any significant way. The games are just too good. If anything, this generation will see more multi-console owners like it was with PS3 and Xbox 360.
 

Yselacrey00

Banned
Nov 20, 2018
1,353
1,652
520
I understand the profits part. But how are you doing that in "marketshare" for certain games? Lets use Call of Duty as our example. Lets so CoD sells 10 million copies on PS consoles and 4 million copies on Xbox consoles. Are would we figure out the marketshare between the two when Gamepass is included (assuming Call of Duty would be in GP)?

- By total number of online players?
- By total number of concurrent online players?
- What about the gamers that bought CoD, but don't play online?
- What if someone streamed CoD for 10 minutes on Xcloud and stopped playing it? Do they count as a Call of Duty player for Xbox?
- What if someone downloads CoD from Gamepass, but never plays the game? Do they count as a Call of Duty player for Xbox?
- What is a stream worth?
Total number of online players and concurrent players are a good metric. Obviously you won't be able to compare sales vs subscriptions. What you will be able to do though is see a decline in sales and an increase in subscriptions, that will give you a good picture. At the end of the day you won't be able to compare 1:1 which is what you want. That era is over until Sony releases a subscription service. If you want you can compare gamepass with PS Now but that will be unfair to Sony.
 
  • LOL
Reactions: Thirty7ven

Yselacrey00

Banned
Nov 20, 2018
1,353
1,652
520
Well sure.. when no-one had heard of it, and 6 years removed from launching streaming...

Netflix, as a company focused on streaming, has never posted a loss.

Last time they posted a loss was 2002.
No, they reported losses after launching their streaming service.
 

IntentionalPun

Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
Aug 28, 2019
8,951
16,481
660
No, they reported losses after launching their streaming service.
When?

edit: Googling I'm finding a single quarter loss in 2012.. but can't find anything else, there are no yearly losses as far as I can tell
 
Last edited: