• Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!

'Under the Red Hood' has the greatest Batman climax ever

Status
Not open for further replies.
I was pointedly trying to pretend that
Bane Barbra
was not a thing. That comic also had
League of Shadows Black Canary
.

Ugh.

Gail SImone really burned through all the good will she ever built up with her Batgirl run. And Swierczynski/Marx's run of Bird of Prey, while starting in an interesting direction, turned into a total shit show.

Without Cass and Steph there's no real reason to even have a Batgirl book.

Barb Gordon handed over the mantle in 1989, nobody reading comics now knows she was Batgirl for so long, in fact most people know Cass as Batgirl over her.

Idk, I just had a drag out internet fight with a kid over whether Cass was ever Batgirl. He said she was only ever Black Bat and I literally had to post practically a fucking thesis paper with citations that he was wrong. Barbra Gordon Batgirl is just way too ingrained into pop culture. Batgirl = red head, to the people that don't read comics.
 
Without Cass and Steph there's no real reason to even have a Batgirl book.

Barb Gordon handed over the mantle in 1989, nobody reading comics now knows she was Batgirl for so long, in fact most people know Cass as Batgirl over her.

Ehh, not so.

Most non-comic media portrays Barbara as Batgirl. I was born after she was crippled and I STILL instinctively think of her as Batgirl.
 
I like Year One the best, personally. I know it's weird and most people hate it but I enjoyed it for what it was.

It could've been great, it really could've. Source material was all there. But Ben McKenzie's Batman voice... ughhhh...

And the DC studio kinda cut some corners uhhh... like... serious corners...

SRCVfg1.jpg


0NVhlp6.jpg


My favorite's always been the Wonder Woman film. It felt like the perfect origin story for her. Even if you'd never known anything about WW before watching, you couldn't help but turn into a fan by the end of that story. Flashpoint's also up there. Emotionally, it works.
 
Ehh, not so.

Most non-comic media portrays Barbara as Batgirl. I was born after she was crippled and I STILL instinctively think of her as Batgirl.

The animated stuff does sure, but like, the people that came to comics because of that did it almost 20 years ago now (I know right?). The 5% of new readership they got from New 52 might still think of her as Batgirl if they even knew who Batgirl was at all, but the rest of the readers that buy books every Wednesday or the guys that pick up trades, they've had a lot longer with her as Oracle than otherwise.
 
I'm gonna have to give it to Working Through Pain, Return of the Joker, Mask of the Phantasm, TDK, and then Under The Red Hood. They're all great and are about different things. It's just Working Through Pain that hit me the hardest.

Return of the Joker
"It's not Batman that makes you worthwhile. It's the other way around."
ROTJ7-1.jpg


Mask of the Phantasm
"Vengeance blackens the soul, Bruce. I've always feared you'd become what you fought against. You walk the edge of that abyss every night. But you haven't fallen in and I thank heaven for that."
giphy.gif


Gotham Knight: Working Through Pain
"Sir, give me your hand."
"I-I can't."
jbtL0jVyRVw7sz.jpg
 
The animated stuff does sure, but like, the people that came to comics because of that did it almost 20 years ago now (I know right?). The 5% of new readership they got from New 52 might still think of her as Batgirl if they even knew who Batgirl was at all, but the rest of the readers that buy books every Wednesday or the guys that pick up trades, they've had a lot longer with her as Oracle than otherwise.

True, but for most of the time she was Oracle, there was no Batgirl.

Neither Steph nor Cass have had the mantle long enough to truly own it like she does.

Barbara as Batgirl is SO iconic in other media, I think it played a big role in her return. She makes more sense to new readers than the others.
 
Gail Simone doesn't know how to end a run?

I'm shocked, SHOCKED.

It was more than that. It was like she was pissed that DC wanted Barbra to walk again so she tried to come up with every horrible thing she could to constantly make her life hell. When DC tried to fire her, the fans should have shut up. Her run should of ended a long long time ago.

It could've been great, it really could've. Source material was all there. But Ben McKenzie's Batman voice... ughhhh...

And the DC studio kinda cut some corners uhhh... like... serious corners...

SRCVfg1.jpg


0NVhlp6.jpg


My favorite's always been the Wonder Woman film. It felt like the perfect origin story for her. Even if you'd never known anything about WW before watching, you couldn't help but turn into a fan by the end of that story. Flashpoint's also up there. Emotionally, it works.

For the entire DCAU, my favorites were New Frontier and JL: Doom. Wonder Woman was pretty fantastic as well. Oddly enough, I have yet to watch Flashpoint, just because it was the reason we have the New 52 now, and I knew they'd never top the Knight of Vengeance mini without making it it's own movie.

EDIT: Gotham Knight was criminally underrated, but I think that's just because I loved The Animatrix so much :p
 
It was a nice movie, but Dear God, I wish they would cut out that shitty sequence with cyborg ninjas. Felt like something straight out of G.I. Joe cartoon. Really clashed the tone of the rest of the movie.

That said, I wish I would hear more Greenwood as Batman and most of all more John DiMaggio as Joker. THat Joker sounded so fresh.

Like, I want to fight you, because that ninja sequence is sick. On the other hand, I also thought the voices were amazing (Neil Patrick Harris as Dick Grayson needs more love) and agree with you.

Say something else I disagree with so we can argue pointlessly.

Also, this is one of my favorite animated and one of my favorite Batman films. I should really read the comic arc.

To those who have read the comic and seen the film version, is it a good adaption?
 
For the entire DCAU, my favorites were New Frontier and JL: Doom. Wonder Woman was pretty fantastic as well. Oddly enough, I have yet to watch Flashpoint, just because it was the reason we have the New 52 now, and I knew they'd never top the Knight of Vengeance mini without making it it's own movie.

For a new viewer, The New Frontier is a pretty good animated movie. But if you're a fan of the original Darwyn Cooke book, then I'm afraid it's a pretty big letdown.

The problem is that there is just so much to love about The New Frontier, and it should've all been kept in. This was basically the exact opposite of the problem with Superman/Batman Apocalypse, in that they cut stuff out to make a 75 minute film. They did not fit in everything from the comic, and this hurts it if you've read and loved the comic. The original source just looks so much better, and you find the omissions lacking. There are so many changes that it's hard to count, and I won't even attempt it. But the entire Challengers of the Unknown element from the story is excised, they're not anywhere in the film. And you lose a lot of the richness, that worldbuilding that made the comic so fresh and interesting and enjoyable.

Also, some of the musical choices and odd pauses during dramatic scenes felt off to me. For example, there's a big scene where Barry Allen stops Captain Cold's scheme at a banquet by tying his cold bombs to a balloon. They detonate up in the atmosphere and produce snow, which falls on the people at the banquet. Here's the actual lines of narrative in the comic:

"Then something magical happens. Cold's bombs detonate high in the evening sky."

"And for a few minutes, it's snowing in the desert. The other folks, they can't see me, but I'm there, vibrating just out of their vision."

"I'm there with them, and it's something to see."


Now, it's this rather magical and awe-inspiring sight in the comic. We're there with Barry, enjoying this light snowfall in the aftermath of a superhero struggle, and we're meant to savor the moment. It's touching and rather mellow and tranquil. The Flash is enjoying the spectacle along with everyone else.

But in the film, the same scene ends with Barry speeding off while heroic peppy music plays dramatically. It just ruins the whole tone that the comic was going for, IMO.

So yeah, these things do bother me. The overall plot with the Center does get covered, but it just feels so bare-boned and perfunctory, rather then majestic and layered. The ending with Kennedy's New Frontier speech is done fairly well, and it is poignant, but then they don't even bother animating the last scene, where the newly formed Justice League arrives to battle Starro, their first official encounter. It's just a static image, and we don't get Jimmy Olsen's excited utterance of "Miss Lane! Here they come now... it's going to be okay!" That exuberant line, denoting newfound confidence and optimism for the future, made the scene for me and to have it missing was a disappointment.

The comic is great, and the film adaptation is pretty okay because of that, but it's a shadow of what could've been.

You should get on Flashpoint, it's a damn good adaptation. The few weaknesses it has are the same weaknesses that were in the original Johns run.
 
Like, I want to fight you, because that ninja sequence is sick. On the other hand, I also thought the voices were amazing (Neil Patrick Harris as Dick Grayson needs more love) and agree with you.

Say something else I disagree with so we can argue pointlessly.

Also, this is one of my favorite animated and one of my favorite Batman films. I should really read the comic arc.

To those who have read the comic and seen the film version, is it a good adaption?

It is, but the major differences, to me, are:

- the treatment of Black Mask
- how Jason was resurrected (the movie explanation is a million times better)
- Black Mask's actions against the Red Hood are completely different (instead of ninjas, it's the Secret Society of Villains: Deathstroke, Captain Nazi, Hyena, Count Vertigo)

God, I wish I could find the page with Black Mask chewing out Deathstroke over Captain Nazi and Hyena... Classic. Funnier than all of the movie Black Mask moments combined.

For a new viewer, The New Frontier is a pretty good animated movie. But if you're a fan of the original Darwyn Cooke book, then I'm afraid it's a pretty big letdown.

I decided to read the actual comic after seeing the movie, cause I love Darwyn Cooke's art (Batman Ego is fantastic). And I 100% agree, the movie is far inferior to the comic. But, for the uninitiated, it's a really fun animated movie.
 
Never read the original story but I watched the movie first and I heard it fixed some weird reasoning as to how Jason was revived. Movie was good although still pales in comparison to past movies.

And already I see some RHatO haters. I could make the argument that what Lodbell did for Jason is better than every other writer trying to turn him into another wanna be Punisher.
 
Never read the original story but I watched the movie first and I heard it fixed some weird reasoning as to how Jason was revived. Movie was good although still pales in comparison to past movies.

And already I see some RHatO haters. I could make the argument that what Lodbell did for Jason is better than every other writer trying to turn him into another wanna be Punisher.

In the original story, Jason got revived because Superboy Prime got real horny and frustrated and punched the walls of reality.

...so yeah, they did fix that.
 
Never read the original story but I watched the movie first and I heard it fixed some weird reasoning as to how Jason was revived. Movie was good although still pales in comparison to past movies.

And already I see some RHatO haters. I could make the argument that what Lodbell did for Jason is better than every other writer trying to turn him into another wanna be Punisher.

On paper, RHatO is a slam dunk. More or less a loser version of the A Team. But it was just too out there for a Batman series.

I will agree that Jason should never be just a Punisher clone.

And yes, the movie adaption is a bit less... comic book stupid, haha.

Yes. <3

More people need to be reminded of this quote.

The Alfred one from Mask of the Phantasm too. I think one of the reasons I enjoy the cartoon adaptations (well, these older ones) is because of stuff like this.

Between Alfred's final lines, and his fear when Bruce first puts on the cowl, MotP deserves the legendary status it has.

And Batman Beyond is criminally underrated. I know it has its cult fanbase, but it was just so much better than people make it seem to be.

The Batman, on the other hand....
I miss Beware The Batman :'[
 
For a new viewer, The New Frontier is a pretty good animated movie. But if you're a fan of the original Darwyn Cooke book, then I'm afraid it's a pretty big letdown.

The problem is that there is just so much to love about The New Frontier, and it should've all been kept in. This was basically the exact opposite of the problem with Superman/Batman Apocalypse, in that they cut stuff out to make a 75 minute film. They did not fit in everything from the comic, and this hurts it if you've read and loved the comic. The original source just looks so much better, and you find the omissions lacking. There are so many changes that it's hard to count, and I won't even attempt it. But the entire Challengers of the Unknown element from the story is excised, they're not anywhere in the film. And you lose a lot of the richness, that worldbuilding that made the comic so fresh and interesting and enjoyable.

Actually feel as if many of these problems are a part of the film as a new viewer as well. (It was the first time I had experienced the story, and it felt rushed hurried and awkwardly paced to me.)
 
On paper, RHatO is a slam dunk. More or less a loser version of the A Team. But it was just too out there for a Batman series.

I will agree that Jason should never be just a Punisher clone.

And yes, the movie adaption is a bit less... comic book stupid, haha.
I read the first trade of RHatO, and thought it was pretty okay, but I wished A) Starfire wasn't in it. She throws off the whole thing. B) It should just be a Jason story. The Future's End one shot for RHatO was one I really liked for that reason.


Between Alfred's final lines, and his fear when Bruce first puts on the cowl, MotP deserves the legendary status it has.

And Batman Beyond is criminally underrated. I know it has its cult fanbase, but it was just so much better than people make it seem to be.

The Batman, on the other hand....
I miss Beware The Batman :'[
Batman Beyond is glanced over by most people, I think, once they realize "oh, this isn't Bruce Wayne?" I really like Terry, but some people just don't, and that's what breaks it for people.
 
I read the first trade of RHatO, and thought it was pretty okay, but I wished A) Starfire wasn't in it. She throws off the whole thing. B) It should just be a Jason story. The Future's End one shot for RHatO was one I really liked for that reason.

Well, someone at DC must have heard your prayers.

Starfire is getting her own book and Red Hood and the Outlaws has been re-branded into Red Hood and Arsenal.
 
Well, someone at DC must have heard your prayers.

Starfire is getting her own book and Red Hood and the Outlaws has been re-branded into Red Hood and Arsenal.

And with Starfire, I trust Amanda Connor and Jimmy P to fix a lot of the wrong the New 52 did to her character.

Red Hood and Arsenal has the potential to be fantastic, but I'll hold out hope until I read the first two issues...
 
In the original story, Jason got revived because Superboy Prime got real horny and frustrated and punched the walls of reality.

...so yeah, they did fix that.
That sounds like something a comic book would do.

On paper, RHatO is a slam dunk. More or less a loser version of the A Team. But it was just too out there for a Batman series.

I will agree that Jason should never be just a Punisher clone.

And yes, the movie adaption is a bit less... comic book stupid, haha.
The reason it didn't feel like a Batman book is because Lobdell wanted Jason get away from Gotham where all the anger and sadness he had for the bat family originated and in a way do some soul searching while making friends with other broken people. It's not perfect but it has it's moments that make up for it in the long run. Say what you want about Red Hood going to space but it strangely worked and now I kind of want a comic just him exploring planets.
 
That sounds like something a comic book would do.


The reason it didn't feel like a Batman book is because Lobdell wanted Jason get away from Gotham where all the anger and sadness he had for the bat family originated and in a way do some soul searching while making friends with other broken people. It's not perfect but it has it's moments that make up for it in the long run. Say what you want about Red Hood going to space but it strangely worked and now I kind of want a comic just him exploring planets.

Just did not like the weirdness of it all. Like I said, Jason and everyone being like the A Team, cleaning up other people's messes around the country/world would have been perfection. A Bat Family book has more to do with the legacy than it does the locale. Having Jason leave Gotham and be his own man, while still involved on missions only a former Robin and equally broken people could do, is far more Batman related than having them all go to space like they're Flash Gordon...
 
Just did not like the weirdness of it all. Like I said, Jason and everyone being like the A Team, cleaning up other people's messes around the country/world would have been perfection. A Bat Family book has more to do with the legacy than it does the locale. Having Jason leave Gotham and be his own man, while still involved on missions only a former Robin and equally broken people could do, is far more Batman related than having them all go to space like they're Flash Gordon...
I mean they are going around helping out as best as they can but the book's main focus is on each member's internal struggle. They helped Starfire free her home planet from invading aliens lol. It was pretty badass though. When your friends with an alien princess it's inevitable your gonna go to space and fight aliens.
 
And with Starfire, I trust Amanda Connor and Jimmy P to fix a lot of the wrong the New 52 did to her character.

Agreed. And to be quite honest, I had serious issues with her character prior to the New 52.

I hope they reinvent entire swathes of the character altogether.

Just did not like the weirdness of it all. Like I said, Jason and everyone being like the A Team, cleaning up other people's messes around the country/world would have been perfection. A Bat Family book has more to do with the legacy than it does the locale. Having Jason leave Gotham and be his own man, while still involved on missions only a former Robin and equally broken people could do, is far more Batman related than having them all go to space like they're Flash Gordon...

Listless. That is the word I would use to describe the book.

Lobdell has no idea what to do with any of the characters.
 
Listless. That is the word I would use to describe the book.

Lobdell has no idea what to do with any of the characters.
It's clear what he wanted Jason to be. More open in sharing his feelings and trusting people. I had no gripes with what he was doing with Starfire but if this new book is what other people wanted then that's fine. Roy is his bro and right hand man so they have a buddy cop thing going as he struggles to overcome his drug habit.
 
Well, someone at DC must have heard your prayers.

Starfire is getting her own book and Red Hood and the Outlaws has been re-branded into Red Hood and Arsenal.
I was so happy when I saw that on the whole re-branding list. I'm legitimately looking forward to it. I don't particularly care for Starfire. Then again I only know her from Teen Titans (the show) and RHatO, so I don't know if there's a "better" incarnation to find. I'm not particularly curious on it.
He never was Robin, he went directly to Red Robin, do not pass Go, do not collect $200. He has feather wings on his costume, and he is a far cry personality wise from his Pre52 days.
Does he still lightheartedly talk smack and make fun of Bruce for brooding too much?
 
As much as I like Troy being the Joker seeing John DiMaggio playing a very straight faced homicidal Joker in the movie was really fun to see. There were moments where he just looked bored and then a second later just start killing people and then laughed. It's Like Joker suffered from bipolar.
 
Under the RedHood, Wonder Woman and Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker are the Holy Trinity of DC Animated films.

Superman/Batman: Apocalypse and Flash Point get honorable mention.
 
I don't get why Batman doesn't just build a huge fucking pit in the Batcave and throw the Joker naked in there. Throw a burger down there every now and again. Problem solved. Can't conjure up plans to escape if you have no one to fuck with mentally.
 
Batman doesn't 'dodge a bullet'. He turns around and listens for the hammer of the gun being pulled, and he pre-emptively starts moving away from where he knows that gun will be targeting (he lurches in another direction). After which he is prepared to throw a batarang into the barrel of the gun within the window of opportunity between shots like he has probably practised. They really make a show of visually explaining this all.

I don't get why Batman doesn't just build a huge fucking pit in the Batcave and throw the Joker naked in there. Throw a burger down there every now and again. Problem solved. Can't conjure up plans to escape if you have no one to fuck with mentally.

Deep down he wants to see the Joker rehabilitated. That's really why he doesn't kill him. Because he has to know that 'absolute evil' is conquerable, and that his quest isn't just futile. Note: Batman is insane.
 
I caught this movie for the first time a few weeks ago. Was a late night movie.
It was good enough to keep me from going to bed but I don't know if I could sit and watch it again.

And the video in the OP - where
BM dodges the bullet. Stupid, he should have flung the Batarang before he shot.
The was stupid

I don't get why Batman doesn't just build a huge fucking pit in the Batcave and throw the Joker naked in there. Throw a burger down there every now and again. Problem solved. Can't conjure up plans to escape if you have no one to fuck with mentally.

I think it has been explained that
BM needs the Joker. That without him then BM's heart isn't in it anymore.
I could have picked that up from one of the games.
 
Batman doesn't 'dodge a bullet'. He turns around and listens for the hammer of the gun being pulled, and he pre-emptively starts moving away from where he knows that gun will be targeting (he lurches in another direction). After which he is prepared to throw a batarang into the barrel of the gun within the window of opportunity between shots like he has probably practised. They really make a show of visually explaining this all.

That's not what happens at all. Go back and rewatch the scene.

Jason fires the gun and the bullet leaves the barrel. We enter slow motion bullet time. Batman is standing completely still.

The bullet gets closer to him, and he's still standing completely still.

Still closer, and he's still a statue.

Then, right before it reaches him, he quickly dodges out of the way. There's absolutely no preemption.

8QUpPIf.jpg
 
That's not what happens at all. Go back and rewatch the scene.

Jason fires the gun and the bullet leaves the barrel. We enter slow motion bullet time. Batman is standing completely still.

The bullet gets closer to him, and he's still standing completely still.

Still closer, and he's still a statue.

Then, right before it reaches him, he quickly dodges out of the way. There's absolutely no preemption.

8QUpPIf.jpg

Between hearing the hammer and the bullet firing are sub-seconds. But we see that Batman is paying attention for when the trigger is being pulled, and the hammer of the gun starts falling, because they show us his face in that moment.

So when I saw it, this is how I interpreted it. Batman walks himself to a distance where he knows he'll have just enough time to hear the hammer pull and immediately start moving out of the way of the bullet. But the time we are seeing the bullet travel in slow-motion is Batman's natural reaction time to hearing the hammer pull and starting movement, which he accounted for by putting additional distance between himself and the gun. He then knows instantly that he has a set amount of time to block the barrel of the gun with a batarang.

It just looked to me like he had rehearsed for this exact scenario, not that he was spontaneously reacting to a speeding bullet.
 
Between hearing the hammer and the bullet firing are sub-seconds. But we see that Batman is paying attention for when the trigger is being pulled, and the hammer of the gun starts falling, because they show us his face in that moment.

So when I saw it, this is how I interpreted it. Batman walks himself to a distance where he knows he'll have just enough time to hear the hammer pull and immediately start moving out of the way of the bullet. But the time we are seeing the bullet travel in slow-motion is Batman's natural reaction time to hearing the hammer pull and starting movement, which he accounted for by putting additional distance between himself and the gun. He then knows instantly that he has a set amount of time to block the barrel of the gun with a batarang.

It just looked to me like he had rehearsed for this exact scenario, not that he was spontaneously reacting to a speeding bullet.

I don't think that makes any sense. I mean, it was a small apartment room... he looked like he was about 10 or 12 feet away max. That's really not any distance at all to react or move away from the path of a bullet. And I'm no firearm expert at all, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think there's any real delay between a gun's hammer pull and it firing. I mean, when I shoot guns in Call of Duty or Battlefield... I don't hear the hammer pull and then the gun fire. I just hear the gun fire.
 
That's not what happens at all. Go back and rewatch the scene.

Jason fires the gun and the bullet leaves the barrel. We enter slow motion bullet time. Batman is standing completely still.

The bullet gets closer to him, and he's still standing completely still.

Still closer, and he's still a statue.

Then, right before it reaches him, he quickly dodges out of the way. There's absolutely no preemption.

8QUpPIf.jpg
Except for, y'know, the shot prior where he is clearly paying insanely close attention for the sound of the hammer on Jason's gun. He wasn't walking away in complete ignorance. He's well aware Jason could and very well likely fire that gun at any second. Highly doubt this is the first time he's ever been faced with someone pointing a gun at him from somewhere other than his front.

And this is seriously the thing you're going to nitpick about in a movie with fucking cyberninjas, an Amazo fight, a resurrection pit, and other ridiculously insane stunts?
 
I don't think that makes any sense. I mean, it was a small apartment room... he looked like he was about 10 or 12 feet away max. That's really not any distance at all to react or move away from the path of a bullet. And I'm no firearm expert at all, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think there's any real delay between a gun's hammer pull and it firing. I mean, when I shoot guns in Call of Duty or Battlefield... I don't hear the hammer pull and then the gun fire. I just hear the gun fire.

I'm saying that Batman started moving in the, say, .2 seconds where he could hear the hammer going down. And when you're seeing him standing still it's his reaction time delay between hearing the sound and moving.

I'm not saying he heard the gun fire and 12 feet was enough distance for him to dodge it. I'm saying that he put an amount of distance between him and the gun which would account for his reaction time, and allow him to just get out of the way of the bullet.
 
And I'm not an expert, I'm just a guy who knows that ordinary human beings cannot dodge bullets in flight.

He's not an ordinary human being, he's the goddamned Batman.

And this is seriously the thing you're going to nitpick about in a movie with fucking cyberninjas, an Amazo fight, a resurrection pit, and other ridiculously insane stunts?

^This. This so fucking much.

3195686-grant-morrison.jpg
 
Except for, y'know, the shot prior where he is clearly paying insanely close attention for the sound of the hammer on Jason's gun. He wasn't walking away in complete ignorance. He's well aware Jason could and very well likely fire that gun at any second. Highly doubt this is the first time he's ever been faced with someone pointing a gun at him from somewhere other than his front.

And this is seriously the thing you're going to nitpick about in a movie with fucking cyberninjas, an Amazo fight, a resurrection pit, and other ridiculously insane stunts?

Yes, because all those other things are internally consistent with Batman's world. Except for this. This doesn't make sense in Batman's world, because Batman is an ordinary human being, not a superpowered metahuman like Superman or The Flash. Batman is the one who has to use his brains instead of brawn, the one who compensates for his mortal frailties and limitations with tactics and contingencies and advantageous positioning and technology. Not by magically dodging bullets at super speed.

I'm saying that Batman started moving in the, say, .2 seconds where he could hear the hammer going down. And when you're seeing him standing still it's his reaction time delay between hearing the sound and moving.

I'm not saying he heard the gun fire and 12 feet was enough distance for him to dodge it. I'm saying that he put an amount of distance between him and the gun which would account for his reaction time, and allow him to just get out of the way of the bullet.

But he doesn't move when the hammer's going down. The hammer goes down, the gun fires, and the bullet leaves the barrel and gets really close to him before he starts moving.

And even if he did move when the hammer came down, I don't think a human being has the reflexes and speed to move out of a bullet's path when it's inside a confined apartment room.
 
But he doesn't move when the hammer's going down. The hammer goes down, the gun fires, and the bullet leaves the barrel and gets really close to him before he starts moving.

And even if he did move when the hammer came down, I don't think a human being has the reflexes and speed to move out of a bullet's path when it's inside a confined apartment room.

Batman doesn't have the power of instantaneous movement. When we see him not moving that is the delay in his reaction time, which he accounted for by putting distance between himself and the gun.

And he didn't move when the hammer came down. He started moving before then, knowing that he would have to, accounting for reaction time delay. You can see him turn his head, as if to say "Ok, here's where I need to start moving out of the way".
 
its a cartoon guys.....we saw batman do leaps and jumps that would kill a normal man throughout the whole movie in defiance of Gravity......but him pulling a bullet time move is the straw that broke the camel's back in the disbelief department?
 
Haha that Grant Morrison quote never gets old. I think why people put that much stock into this line of thinking is maybe they invest quite a bit into the movie so want to analyse it from top to bottom as if it actually happened. They use real life as a comparison rather than the internal logic created by the fictional world. It becomes worse with live action.
 
I love the flashback that juxtaposes the 60's era Batman with the more modern interpretation.

The rest, not so much.

edit: The flashback in which if I am remembering correctly a teenage Robin dodges automatic fire from several sources at what surely must be described as close range if that helps.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom