48086
Member
Lol, so how far into Trump's term does Obama get credit? I guess all four years?
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Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Under Trump's leadership unemployment is now at 3.9%
- Thread starter TheLaughingStock
- Start date
Lol, so how far into Trump's term does Obama get credit? I guess all four years?
mercenar1e
Member
When Trumps term is over you can compare the two and figure out who did a better job.
48086
Member
According to you, a democrat would have to win the next election and then we would have to wait a little over a year before we could compare Trump and Obama.
It's a continuation of a trend, this is really not a hard concept to grasp. He gets credit for not fucking up I suppose.
https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000
I know some people are desperate for Trump wins and really crave that recognition from the (((MSM))), but let's not act like Trump has had an enormous impact on the unemployment rate. He's done a good job continuing Obama's trend.
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mercenar1e
Member
According to me? where did i say a Democrat has to win the next election to compare the work of the previous administration to Trump and his policies? if you look back at the quote i posted it shows 91 months of continued economic growth created by Obama after the disaster that was the George Bush administration. If you don't think Obama had a huge role in turning the economy around i really don't have anymore to say to you.
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48086
Member
Lol, where did I ever say Obama didn't have a role in turning the economy around? Chill out, I am just trying to understand where the lines are drawn. No, you didn't specifically say a "democrat" but it seems like that would be the best comparison.
<3Yah I came to comment that it feels too early for anything Trump would have done to really show effects in the unemployment rate (or anything for that matter)... it would take years for affects to be visible. In 3-4 years we will see data of how Trump started to affect things.It's a continuation of a trend, this is really not a hard concept to grasp. He gets credit for not fucking up I suppose.
https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000
I know some people are desperate for Trump wins and really crave that recognition from the (((MSM))), but let's not act like Trump has had an enormous affect on the unemployment rate. He's done a good job continuing Obama's trend.
It always come down to folks saying if it is going good it is Obama's work but if it is going bad it is Trump's fault. I will say that I thought the economy would go down quite a bit due to Trump backlash and everyone freaking out. It is still too early to say who gets the credit. Maybe wait until after the next president is out of office to make an official stance.
Vicetrailia
Banned
If the economy starts to slide we will look at Trump's actions to reverse course. But for now he's continuing the momentum with the tax breaks, etc.
TheLaughingStock
Member
Sure.
https://www.economist.com/news/unit...-feeling-more-prosperous-last-proper-recovery
https://www.federalreserve.gov/publ...s-in-us-family-finances-from-2013-to-2016.htm
http://time.com/money/4507565/democrat-republican-president-better-economy/
Also, as I've mentioned before, Republicans started taking control of the US government at all levels beginning in 2010. So, the GOP were the ones in control keeping the lights on, implementing policies that focused on small business, reforming labor, cutting taxes, deregulating, etc. The biggest accomplishment the Democrats can point to from 2010-2018 is the record amount of seats they've lost. The GOP hasn't had this much power in a long time and a big part of that is because the Democrats let their constituents down big time.
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D
Deleted member 12837
Unconfirmed Member
It's so hard for people to give Trump credit it's crazy. I don't even like the man, but you can't deny what he's done.
I barely even see the media giving him credit for the North Korea stuff. It's all Stormy porn star Daniels all the time.
Except the graph doesn't look like that at all. Great comic though!
RokkanStoned
Member
It's so hard for people to give Trump credit it's crazy. I don't even like the man, but you can't deny what he's done.
I barely even see the media giving him credit for the North Korea stuff. It's all Stormy porn star Daniels all the time.
You're not helping here. You're just showing the weird misrepresentation of the economy being a measure of a President's performance. The economy is greater than the presidency, but it's also impacted by the presidency. This means that it's not something that can just go "Thanks Trump" or "Thanks Obama" to. If less attention were paid to the presidency, maybe more people would pay attention to the various congressional races in the senate and the house and further down at a state and local level.
I *really* hope you're trolling or something because that picture is the most retarded The_Donald nonsense I've seen in a long time.
It's so hard for people to give Trump credit it's crazy. I don't even like the man, but you can't deny what he's done.
I barely even see the media giving him credit for the North Korea stuff. It's all Stormy porn star Daniels all the time.
Also, the US media generally covers what gets them the most viewers. Peace talks are boring, Presidential porn star sex scandals aren't.
luigimario
Banned
It's so hard for people to give Trump credit it's crazy. I don't even like the man, but you can't deny what he's done.
I barely even see the media giving him credit for the North Korea stuff. It's all Stormy porn star Daniels all the time.
C'mon man no ones gonna take you seriously and it will be impossible to have a proper discussion if you actually believe that cartoon. Unemployment rates have been falling since 2010 and look at the different economies both presidents were handed, obama was given a recession and trump was given a pretty healthy/strong economy.
How much credit should Trump get for threatening N.Korea with nuclear strikes? You think that was what caused the peace or the S.Korean leader's tactful diplomacy?
KarneeKarnay
Member
To address an issue before moving forward. I will totally understand if you call me out on moving the goal post. I am only interested in policies in acted under the current Trump/GOP administration. Hence the 3 years part of the quote I took of you.
The economy doing well will absolutely benefit everyone, I just think it's unfair to claim that the benefits of long term economic plans can only be attributed to the current administration. Often any benefits come towards the end of a long term economic policy, though I would argue if this was only due to Obama, I think some of the benefits only exist now due to some of the choices made in the Bush administration.
The first two articles comment continuing growth of the economy following the recovery of the 2008 recession. They don't attribute this to either party or president. The final one even goes as far to state that the economy grows best, based on current data, under a Democratic Administration, but a GOP Congress.
You're stating that the GOP took control of the government at all levels, this might be nick picking, but I disagree with administration being Democrat that they took all levels. They certainly held a majority in both houses as of 2010, but your next statement doesn't make any sense when you take this into account.
On one hand the GOP are responsible for all economic growth that took place from 2010-Now due to their control of the government on all levels, on the other hand they haven't been in power that long and this is because the Democrats let their constituents down?
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TheLaughingStock
Member
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...e-heres-what-is-in-it/?utm_term=.a00f4891da38
https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/trumps-inclusive-jobs-boom/
I never said long term gains can only be attributed to the current administration. I'm saying under Trump's leadership unemployment is at 3.9% and that's a big deal. That's because many predictions said the US economy was going to be in trouble. If someone says tomorrow there's going to be a category 5 hurricane yet you wake up to clear skies all throughout the week, then that's a problem.
I also said the haters were dead wrong. Why? It's because they blindly hate the president. It's because they weren't using economic theory or their common sense to say the US will go into a recession or the stock market was going to tank because of a credible x, y, and z. My advice is don't let these people waste your time. They're too emotional to help you better understand what's going on and what might happen.
Moreover, I'm saying you can't say "nuh uh it was really Obama" because conservatives controlled the government, enacted their conservative agenda, and blocked his agenda. The articles don't explicitly give Republicans any credit. But think. What laws or executive orders did the Democratic party push through since 2010 that's driving the economy today?
When the Democratic party controlled the government, people weren't feeling the recovery and the well-being of key constituencies hit hardest by the recession were in trouble. It's as simple as that. They failed. They paid a political price. Even guys like Bernie Sanders (who no one listened to for years) is taking advantage of it. In roughly the last 3 years, more people are feeling the recovery and the gains are being more broadly shared with the Republicans in the driver's seat.
The GOP is most responsible because they took control as mayors of cities, governors of states, majorities in state legislatures, congressmen enacting laws, important local officials, etc. You can't handwave their presence away. Accordingly, they implemented their conservative agenda to deregulate, cut taxes, etc. Additionally, they were keeping the lights on and performing the essential functions people take for granted. They blocked what Obama wanted to do because that's one reason why people voted for them. The Democratic party didn't lose a historic amount of seats because they did a fantastic job. They did a poor job. Correspondingly, the GOP benefited from this and people gave them a chance. I don't understand where your confusion lies, but hopefully that clarifies it.
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KarneeKarnay
Member
While I disagree with the Health Care Insurance de-funding that was pushed through and I do believe that alone will cause a net negative, the tax cuts did add a 0.7% increase to the overall growth of the economy. The only issue I have with it currently is that it's going to increase the Deficit to about 1 trillion the end of this year. While I can't claim any personal impact, I do worry about another bubble bursting and the cuts this has led to welfare. I also tend to be against Trickle Down Economics, so my opinion on this is always be negative, though I do like to think I recgonise this and take it into account.
The Job boon referred here took place prior to any tax cuts. Maybe they were caused by speculation on it? Do they have a link to where they got the numbers from?
My understanding of the unemployment rate was that it's been on a decline since 2010 and was expected to reach 4% this year, instead it reached 3.9%. Next year it's scheduled to hit 3.8%. Maybe you put some of the difference due to Trump. It's why I asked for the numbers above, because that figure could easily explain the 0.1% difference.
While I'm not the biggest advocate of any party or Obama, he did pass policies that have contributed to the net gain of the economy, though some of these have now been rolled back by Trump. The TPIP for instance would have done a lot for growth by easing restrictions between the North American markets. Fuel efficiency standards. The 2010 tax cut for business that amounted to about 800 billion dollars.
I can't argue whether people felt more confident now or then. I think you are right, but I think that a common issue you encounter in economics. No one likes austerity measures or increased taxes, so they vote the current government out, the new one comes in and all the benefits of the last one get claimed by the new one and everyone feels more confident. I would argue if Obama failed anywhere, it was not following though with his policies when he had the chance before 2010 and his foreign policy. The first one isn't a new problem and we typically see the house lost to the party not with PotUS.
Do you have any stats on that I could take a look at? I agree the dems lost a lot of seats, but are we conflating the 2010 & 2014 midterms with the 2016 election?
pickleslips
Member
The only good coming from this clowns presidency was done before he came into office. I could be president and Obamas work would still be making me look good. I dread the job of the next president who has to clean up this idiots mess.
TheLaughingStock
Member
How is health care de-funding a net negative? What does a bubble have to do with anything?
If people commit fraud, act recklessly, or try to corrupt regulators, then the bubble that results is the private sector's fault. That's market failure. Nobody is putting a gun to your head telling you to create fake bank accounts, behave irrationally or engage in corruption to enrich yourself. The deficit was $1 trillion+ from 2009-2012. It's $8.5 trillion over the last 10 years (2007-2017). Inflation has been very low. Unemployment is down. Growth is no longer in the toilet. More people are seeing the economy work for them after years of watching it work for someone else. A deficit is a problem under a particular set of circumstances that do not apply any time soon. There's nothing wrong with the government deciding let's take less money away from you in the economy you have today.
Where is your source that the TTIP would do a lot for growth? Also, Pres. Obama passed the tax cuts for small businesses with the help of House/Senate Republicans and extended the Bush tax cuts. And I thought according to libs tax cuts don't work???
The US economy is estimated by the IMF to be $20.4 trillion in terms of annual output.
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D
Deleted member 1235
Unconfirmed Member
There is no evidence of it working? Isn't US having an amazing recovery and Europe trying to 'austerity it's way out' and still be in a shit hole pretty good evidence that it was a good strategy?
Pallas
Member
I'm not very political myself but I think it's still too early to judge if Trump is successful with the economy. I will say this though, he seems to be doing better than the horrid expectations that many had of him and while a lot could be said about his character, I think it's important to judge his success or failure when he's been in office longer.
Also, saying his success is because of the previous presidency just seems like a way to undermine and take away credit. I know we shouldn't give credit to the most powerful position in the world for not fucking shit up, and just do their job but I think these circumstances are different and not typical. So he should at least be given a little for not completely ruining the economy.
Also, saying his success is because of the previous presidency just seems like a way to undermine and take away credit. I know we shouldn't give credit to the most powerful position in the world for not fucking shit up, and just do their job but I think these circumstances are different and not typical. So he should at least be given a little for not completely ruining the economy.
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Having more money in your pocket is bad? I would love do hear that
mercenar1e
Member
It's unsustainable which is why the Republicans made the tax cut temporary for average Americans and permanent for the wealthy. To get suckers like you on board.
I live in Canada and wish I lived in the States fyi. Per Senate rules they had to make it temporary just like with Reagan. After the election is over they will make them permanent.
Tell me mer what is the better alternative? Tax the rich to death? Good luck with that
mercenar1e
Member
With a good accountant the rich were paying below 15% rate before the new tax plan. I'm all for every other American getting a tax cut but not at that bracket.
49% of Americans pay no federal income taxes to begin with....
<+)O Robido O(+>
Member
It's pretty sad the half the country doesn't make enough to pay income taxes.
Pretty sad that we have an epidemic of school debt because people want idiotic degrees that leave them poor and in debt. I bet that is the reason for a decent % of the 49%
mercenar1e
Member
research it before coming up with that assumption Canadian man.
Son of Cervantes
Member
Donald Trump has his flaws, but he's genuinely a great man. He's doing his best to make America great again...I just wish he wasn't so short-tempered.
After how Obama kowtowed to our foreign allies every single time, Trump is standing up for the US. We're respected again.
After how Obama kowtowed to our foreign allies every single time, Trump is standing up for the US. We're respected again.
*cough*
Obviously approval isn't the same as respect, but actually thinking people across the globe respect Trump more than Obama is delusional. Basically every ally of the US hates Trump and makes fun of him.
TheLaughingStock
Member
The Democrats are probably going to make the tax cuts permanent like they did with Bush. And whether you're poor or rich, it's going to be hard to raise taxes because it could cause a recession down the line depending on the economy at the time. What makes you a sucker if you support the taxs cuts now? The only suckers would be people who think the Democrats are raising taxes in the future for any reason other than scoring political points and pretending they're fighting for little man.
We all know it's an obvious con. Look at the blacks for example.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...rceration-in-50-years/?utm_term=.94ebf86dd7eb
That's 50 years of getting fleeced by the Democratic party for votes.
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pickleslips
Member
You can get more money in your pocket by stealing someones wallet or robbing a bank, but I wouldn't condone it.
Son of Cervantes
Member
ssolitaire, it's good that Europe is learning to stand on its own two feet instead of relying on America for everything. We can't be expected to be the world's babysitter forever.
Sounds like taxes to me
octiny
Banned
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TrainedRage
Banned
...Just stop. Get some help.
rokkerkory
Member
Man Trump cares for unemployment in China too... vowing to reverse ZTE company ban right away.
http://money.cnn.com/2018/05/13/technology/business/trump-zte-corporation-china-commerce/index.html
http://money.cnn.com/2018/05/13/technology/business/trump-zte-corporation-china-commerce/index.html
TrainedRage
Banned
I listened to a very interesting podcast last night about China and the whole "they steal IP's" thing.
It was very interesting.
It seems to serve the top 5% while making labor harder and less sustainable to live off.
https://lifehacker.com/avoid-huawei-zte-and-other-chinese-smartphones-1823010820
One of the largest mobile brands and no one in the US has heard of it. And the government advises against buying the phones.
If you're looking for a new smartphone, six U.S. intelligence heads have advised that you should probably avoid purchasing one from Chinese manufacturers Huawei or ZTE. Sure, they've got nice screens and good price points, but there's more to a smartphone than its size. Also, they might be a cybersecurity risk.
rokkerkory
Member
China ripping off IPs is very much a real thing. Just go on ebay to see all the knockoffs of products but what's worse is that the Chinese government doesn't do jack shit about it AT THE SAME time makes US companies harder to compete... see also high tariffs for US cars. Being hard on China is actually the right move but we gotta hold firm and not reverse course just after a few weeks.
TrainedRage
Banned
I wonder how much of that is the culture being communist, and not valuing individuality as much as some other countries. Why do people work at an "Apple" store in China, they must know its not legit yet still need a job. I just don't know enough about China in general to understand why knockoffs and stealing IP's is such a common thing.
rokkerkory
Member
The root cause is the government to your point. The government + wealthy benefit from it all just look at the divide of the wealthiest to the common person. I do feel for the average citizens. They got smart a long time ago to let them become the #1 cheapest place for labor while learning how things are designed. There's really no need for innovation anymore.
TrainedRage
Banned
Yeah seems like 95% manufacture and 3% Steal IP's and 2% Innovation. I cant even imagine what crazy s*** they would be doing with a "US style free market" democracy.
rokkerkory
Member
What's going to make things worse is that they are getting business from other countries. They will rinse repeat what they did with US and cheat again.
Maybe we need to find orher countries to mfger stuff but are willing to be true partners. I do see some shift here and here at lease starting with clothing now... India, Thailand, etc.
Air Zombie Meat
Member
I think it'd be interesting to see what kind of jobs these are e.g. how many of them pay a living wage, have health benefits, job security or long term career prospects etc. I suspect that those details might not paint such a rosy picture.
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