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Underperforming XBLA titles to be removed

No6

Member
Oct 15, 2004
1,954
0
0
androvsky said:
Removing underperforming XBLA games? Despite my enjoyment of the PS3, I still plan on getting a 360 eventually, mainly for jrpgs (wtf sony) and XBLA games. Given that I sometimes have odd taste in games, chances are decent I'd actually want one of those "underperforming" games. If scrolling through a bunch of titles that aren't doing well is such a problem, either redesign the store or put them in an alphabetically sorted "View All"; it's where Sony hides their crappy games. ;)
Well, it's just "crappy" games, but XBLA titles have always had such bizarre scores due to sites not taking price into account that the notion of using Metacritic is ridiculous (moreso than normal). For example, Tiqal's review blurb from giantbomb:
It’s thoroughly unexciting and visually uninspired, but that’s more the fault of TiQal’s place in history. If it had been one of the first puzzle games on the service, it might stand out a bit more. But now, despite its passable gameplay, it’s hard to not just say “wow, they made another one of these?” and move on.
Yeah, it doesn't sound like it's for me, but it also doesn't sound like a 40% game which is what metacritic translated what I assume to be 2/5 stars to.
 

Tempy

don't ask me for codes
Feb 6, 2005
13,695
1
1,285
ipukespiders said:
Are you admitting to buying crappy xbla titles?

One man's turd is another man's treasure. For example, I enjoyed something like Soltrio Solitaire even though it got shit reviews and probably shit sales.

Also - The excuse that delisting will make games easier to browse for just reinforces my opinion that their browsing setup is poor in the first place.
 

mood

Member
Sep 3, 2006
1,276
0
0
In your bellybutton.
Phew, Space Giraffe has a 68! Dumb idea to remove games. Space Giraffe is the best game on the service and it probably isnt selling well and wasnt critically acclaimed. This is giving way too much power to the video game trade press.
 

pswii60

Member
Jun 28, 2006
15,620
1
0
UK
I think they should start a new section called "Shit Live Arcade Games" and shove them all in there with free downloads.
 

radjago

Member
Feb 7, 2006
2,652
0
1,275
D8N, OH
Otheradam said:
It's not a matter of if the game is good or bad, but I thought one of the points of digital distribution was that you can can find anything anytime and buy it. Unlike with how retail is now for games, where the shelf-life for the average game is like 6 months before it gets hard to find unless its a huge game. Good luck trying to find something that came out 2 years ago new and a niche title.

With digital distribution, in theory, this problem would be solved as you can access old or niche titles that you wouldn't be able to find otherwise. This delisting thing just sets a bad precedence.
They're totally depriving themselves of the variety and depth of catalog needed to see long tail effects.
 

chubigans

y'all should be ashamed
Dec 7, 2006
27,115
0
1,290
www.vertigogaming.net
Crisis said:
No but that's not the issue. There is no "shelf" for digital titles. There is no reason to do this. They are making any small developer think twice about making an XBLA title and purposefully limiting what can be purchased on their system. After all their talk about digital distribution and how developer friendly they were, this is kind of a slap in the face. What about XNA titles? What about titles I've downloaded that didn't sell well?

Wellllll, MS is doing the right thing here and it might have some good quality control down the line. It's not Metacritic OR sales, its both.

Basically, if your game sucks and doesn't sell well, you have six months to improve upon it, be it patches for more gameplay types, fixes, etc.

I see this more as a plan going forward for devs to shape up than to discipline content already on the Marketplace. Sony hand picks their titles, and MS has a larger door for devs to go through...the catch being if it sucks, prepare for delisting.

Not that bad an idea honestly.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
Jun 7, 2004
77,908
2
1,490
Oregon
1) No spring update is really disappointing, but not surprising. Microsoft had a hard time keeping up the semi-annual pace, with the last update hitting in December. Still, I was hoping for something to address gaps in the last update.

2) DRM fix is good. It takes forever for my XBLA games to get validated and load up.

3) STUPID to de-list XBLA games. There's not many of them. Just park'em in an older listing and discount them, as Jim said. Bad, bad idea, especially setting Metacritic as part of the decision making.

One step forward, two steps back, MS.
 

Fewr

Member
Jun 2, 2006
4,490
0
0
The cruel version of the nintendo seal of quality. How about they let us gold account members to download one or two of them for free lol.

EDIT: before they're gone
 

dreammastah

Banned
Jun 20, 2007
264
0
0
Last year Xbox 360 owners got a spring dashboard update in early May. It's now late May and you still haven't announced anything regarding this year's update. Should 360 owners be holding their breaths for it?

We have taken a different approach this spring and spent a lot of our time and resources of building the proper infrastructure and scale for the service not just today but also into the future. So while most users will not notice any significant changes to the dashboard this spring, I can tell you that the team will be releasing a new digital rights management (DRM) tool next month that will allow you to better consolidate your licenses for downloaded content to a single Xbox and allow you the freedom to be able to play your content both online and offline.

He doesn't say there won't be a spring update.
 

Dizzy

Banned
Jun 21, 2006
2,952
0
0
UK
So one of the key advantages of downloading games - always being able to find them years after release - gets flushed down the drain.

It's like a bad joke.
 

jestro

Banned
Apr 23, 2008
125
0
0
Crisis said:
No but that's not the issue. There is no "shelf" for digital titles. There is no reason to do this. They are making any small developer think twice about making an XBLA title and purposefully limiting what can be purchased on their system. After all their talk about digital distribution and how developer friendly they were, this is kind of a slap in the face. What about XNA titles? What about titles I've downloaded that didn't sell well?

Yeah they should have a Bargain Bin folder and stuff them all in there.
 

No6

Member
Oct 15, 2004
1,954
0
0
chubigans said:
I see this more as a plan going forward for devs to shape up than to discipline content already on the Marketplace. Sony hand picks their titles, and MS has a larger door for devs to go through...the catch being if it sucks, prepare for delisting.

Not that bad an idea honestly.
If it sucks then just don't allow it to be released. But really, if it sucks who cares? I agree with the PSN comment: just extract it from the category listings and just let it get buried.

Or do a price dump. Really, this is the best option. Knock the prices down to $1-2 and I'd probably get stupid and buy everything.
 

besiktas1

Member
Jan 9, 2007
4,091
0
0
I just counted over 45 games scored less than 65 on meta critic...

Now lets speculate which ones will be dropped :(

Hardwood Hearts
Texas Hold em
Fatal Fury
Contra
Marathon
Triggerheart
Missle Command
Time pilot
Trackn field
Backgammon
Spades
Pacman
Frogger
Madtracks
Rootbeer
Super Contra
Geon
Sotrio Solitare
Arkadian Warriors
TiQal
Aegis Wing
Defender
Rocketmen
Double Dragon
Gyruss
Asteroids
Battlestar Galatica
Centerpied
Boogie binnies
Spyglass boardgames
Brain Challenge
tetris Splash
Battlezone
Yie Ar Kungfu
Novadrome
Wing Commando
Mr driller
Scramble
Tempest
Totemball
Word puzzled
New Rally
Tron
Bliss Island
Cyber Ball
Screw Jumper
Rocky Bullywinky
Yaris

*sigh* that took longer than expected lol
 

Kandrick

GAF's Ed McMahon
Jul 18, 2007
8,981
0
1,230
Switzerland
guise said:
What the fuck, lack of of a spring update is dispicable. Its not like there is a shortage of things that need to be fixed. What the hell are microsoft thinking.

Yeah really, so much stuff that need fixing, or stuff that need to be implemented.

Sigh.
 

No6

Member
Oct 15, 2004
1,954
0
0
Himuro said:
What about Omega 5 and Triggerheart Exelica?
Is it really so hard to go to metacritic and look yourself?

Omega 5 is safe. Triggerheart is not.
 

chubigans

y'all should be ashamed
Dec 7, 2006
27,115
0
1,290
www.vertigogaming.net
No6 said:
If it sucks then just don't allow it to be released. But really, if it sucks who cares? I agree with the PSN comment: just extract it from the category listings and just let it get buried.

Or do a price dump. Really, this is the best option. Knock the prices down to $1-2 and I'd probably get stupid and buy everything.

That's the thing though...four months into the lifespan and your game might be in danger of delisting, then do a price cut.
 

Beer Monkey

Member
Mar 3, 2005
23,926
5
1,225
Cincinnati
www.tehbias.com
At one point the (free) Space theme for Worms was deleted from the Marketplace. Some of us complained and it has been restored.

During the period that it was gone, I was unable to re-download it. If this is what happens with the games that are removed from XBLA, this is bullshit and Microsoft needs to be called on it. Once you have a valid license for a title you should always be able to delete and redownload it in case of space problems, hard drive crashes, etc.

I can understand desires to keep the store de-cluttered, even if I don't agree with it. But it is absolutely essential that buyers can always review their download history and re-download any content that they once bought. We already give up many rights when we buy DLC on any of these new systems, but we should never have to give up the ability to have our games last longer than our hard drive platters.

Secondly, using Metacritic as a basis for anything is bullshit. Critical reception is not a reliable indicator of any kind of real quality, it is too biased towards current trends.
 

jestro

Banned
Apr 23, 2008
125
0
0
pswii60 said:
I think they should start a new section called "Shit Live Arcade Games" and shove them all in there with free downloads.

I would definitely buy 2-3 games from a section with that name :lol
 

Timan

Developer
Jun 9, 2004
1,957
8
1,550
35
USA
www.neogaf.com
MS is just looking for an excuse to not fix their retarded mess of a market place. It is impossible for new users to actually find what they want in there.

I'll say it again, 2008 = the down fall of 360 :(, seems each week they keep dropping the ball more and more.
 

diffusionx

Member
Feb 25, 2006
14,565
14,656
1,800
chubigans said:
Wellllll, MS is doing the right thing here and it might have some good quality control down the line. It's not Metacritic OR sales, its both.

Basically, if your game sucks and doesn't sell well, you have six months to improve upon it, be it patches for more gameplay types, fixes, etc.

I see this more as a plan going forward for devs to shape up than to discipline content already on the Marketplace. Sony hand picks their titles, and MS has a larger door for devs to go through...the catch being if it sucks, prepare for delisting.

Not that bad an idea honestly.

Wait, so is MS gonna pay those developers to "improve" their games, give them prime spots in the interface again, etc? Doubtful.

Nobody is gonna randomly wake up one day and say, "hey I bet they put some work on Contra, I'll download it again and try it out" and sure enough v1.1 with more Awesome is out.

The time in the sun for these games is long past. They had their time, they sucked, they didn't sell, whatever. But the thing is, MS approved them. They let them go on the surface and sure as shit collected their fee every time a poor sucker downloaded it. But now I guess they're worried about XBLA's reputation as a garbage bin and are trying to erase history with this policy. Well, they shouldn't and these games should remain on the service forever, if only as a mark of eternal shame for MS.
 

Kandrick

GAF's Ed McMahon
Jul 18, 2007
8,981
0
1,230
Switzerland
We are also giving publishers more flexibility in how they price their games and opening up a new 1600 Microsoft Points price point for some of these now bigger and better games

Oh dear. Driller extended turbo only for 1600pts, i can see it.
 

chubigans

y'all should be ashamed
Dec 7, 2006
27,115
0
1,290
www.vertigogaming.net
diffusionx said:
Wait, so is MS gonna pay those developers to "improve" their games, give them prime spots in the interface again, etc? Doubtful.

Nobody is gonna randomly wake up one day and say, "hey I bet they put some work on Contra, I'll download it again and try it out" and sure enough Awesome Patch 1.1 is out.

The time in the sun for these games is long past. They had their time, they sucked, they didn't sell, whatever. But the thing is, MS approved them. They let them go on the surface and sure as shit collected their fee every time a poor sucker downloaded it. But now I guess they're worried about XBLA's reputation as a garbage bin and are trying to erase history with this policy. Well, they shouldn't and these games should remain on the service forever, if only as a mark of eternal shame for MS.

Hmmm, I guess that's a good point too.
 

Hero

Member
Jun 6, 2004
14,960
2
1,360
Completely retarded on the lack of a Spring Dashboard update.

Even more retarded that they're removing XBLA titles. This is just another hit against XBLA. You don't fucking announce this two weeks after a rival service launches (Wii Ware) where former developers are already bitching about the service of XBLA.

Didn't Shane just have an interview the other day where they're getting feedback? Here's some: stop being fucking retarded.
 

Tempy

don't ask me for codes
Feb 6, 2005
13,695
1
1,285
besiktas1 said:
I just counted over 45 games scored less than 65 on meta critic...

Now lets speculate which ones will be dropped :(

*sigh* that took longer than expected lol

These are the ones I have:

Texas Hold em - Like, was free.
Soltrio Solitare - Bought and liked.
Aegis Wing - Meh, was free.

EDIT: Oh snap, I guess I have Yaris too since it was free. Worst game on XBLA/PSN/VC.
 

No6

Member
Oct 15, 2004
1,954
0
0
chubigans said:
That's the thing though...four months into the lifespan and your game might be in danger of delisting, then do a price cut.
Are they allowed to? Can they go sub-$5?

I do applaud the price increase option, though, provided it's handled well. I just want to see a wide range of pricing options.
 

DustinC

Member
Oct 26, 2005
848
0
0
40
Ohio
So MS wants to keep me from playing games that other people think are shitty?

I guess I better hide my copy of Stranglehold. >_>
 

Xyphie

Member
Oct 4, 2007
2,836
436
1,250
Somewhere
Just make a new category called "Cheap Achievements" and put all the crap games there and reduce the price of them to 100 spacebucks. I'm sure alot of people would buy them. :lol
 

MMaRsu

Member
Jun 4, 2006
37,898
0
0
Netherlands
Timan said:
MS is just looking for an excuse to not fix their retarded mess of a market place. It is impossible for new users to actually find what they want in there.

Really? What's impossible ?

You look for the name in an alphabetic list, how big of a fucking retard do you have to be to not be able to find something on the list ?????

I hate the fact that they are deleting old underperforming XBLA titles.

I hate the fact that there isn't going to be a spring dashboard update.

It's retarded that only now will there be a DRM fix implemented, this should have been in place from the start.
 

joezombie

Member
Aug 25, 2005
643
0
0
You'll likely never get much in the way of discounting XBLA stuff. That's one of the things the business guys like best about digital distribution vs. retail, games don't go from full price to almost worthless inside of a month or two due to limited shelf space. You'll see stuff becoming free on occasion, but I think MS will always hold the line on discounting
 

Steroyd

Member
Dec 27, 2006
25,915
0
0
England
jestro said:
You enjoy poo?

That's not the point DD is supposed to be the opposite of retail, it doesn't make sense to chop games off.

And how do you quantify pooh? there is always someone out there that loves these "shitty" games.
 

Crisis

Banned
Feb 12, 2006
7,861
0
0
chubigans said:
Wellllll, MS is doing the right thing here and it might have some good quality control down the line. It's not Metacritic OR sales, its both.

Basically, if your game sucks and doesn't sell well, you have six months to improve upon it, be it patches for more gameplay types, fixes, etc.

I see this more as a plan going forward for devs to shape up than to discipline content already on the Marketplace. Sony hand picks their titles, and MS has a larger door for devs to go through...the catch being if it sucks, prepare for delisting.

Not that bad an idea honestly.

It's really silly though. They've already got the games. They're finished and they're made. It makes no sense to DELIST games you already have. If they want to improve quality standards for games going forward that would make a lot of sense and I'd be all for it. But Microsoft is the one who wanted a ton of games for XBLA. They're the ones who approved these titles for release onto XBLA and now they're saying "Well your game is shitty so we're going to take it off." It wasn't so shitty that Microsoft didn't think it would be a good idea to put it on there in the first place. I think a lot of people have too high of expectations. There's no doubt that there are some extra super-shitty games on Xbox Live but these are download titles and there's no need to just delist games. You could put lower prices on them (because god knows that you can't exactly get the exact amount of points you need to buy a fucking game anyway).

Microsoft has had a moving target in terms of what you can and can't do with games on XBLA. It used to be that they had to fit on a 64MB memory card. Then it moved upwards. For most XBLA games we're not talking Square Enix production values here. If the games suck a large deal of that can be attributed to Microsoft's strict TRC policies. A large deal of it can be attributed to the fact that a lot of these are from small developers. Microsoft has now adopted a "make it good or we'll delist you" policy and the fact of the matter is that by leaving it up to something like MetaCritic is a very bad idea. Really I think Microsoft deserves most of the blame for the bad titles on XBLA. From their requirements to how badly promoted some good games are to shit like this. If you think that with this announcement that there are going to be as many XBLA games in the future, you are mistaken. This is just not a good idea at any point.
 

mollipen

Member
Oct 7, 2005
19,768
3
810
Silent Hill
morningproject.com
According to Whitten, XBLA titles that have been out for more than six months, have a Metacritic score of less than 65%, and have a conversion rate of less than 6% will be eligible for desliting. Microsoft will give three months of notice before these titles are removed.

If this is true... IF... who the fuck do Microsoft think they are? That's none of their god-damn concern. If a song has only sold like five copies on the iTunes Store, is Apple going to threaten to pull it? Hell no. IT'S A DIGITAL STORE YOU STUPID MORONS! The entire point of a digital store is that (a) it costs less to bring a product to market, and (b) you have endless room for products past, present, and future.

Microsoft (and you other console companies out there), get it through your skull... you know jack shit when it comes to what games I want, and I don't give a shit what games you think I want. If a company wants to sell me a game, let them sell it to me, and get out of the freakin' way. Your job is to create a console, the service to sell games, and then shut the fuck up. If you're going to make the argument that quality games aren't selling because there are too many lesser-quality games on your service, then your service sucks ass and it's all your fault, not the games.

I swear, I just want one console manufacturer who doesn't act like a god-damn moron all of the time.

Looking at besiktas1's list, I own five games that would be considered "underperforming."
 

Kibbles

Member
Feb 12, 2008
17,117
0
1,110
radjago said:
If I paid for a game and deleted it to make room for more DLC, I'd better be able to download it again.
Just go to your DLC History.