Jawmuncher
Member
Have the collection on WiiU as well, still haven't played it. Have been meaning to for years. Most I ever played was the mp in 2 and the opening of 1.
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Understanding Metroid Prime greatness for dummies
- Thread starter Gusy
- Start date
Jaw pls. Drop whatever you are doing and go play it :T
Leatherface
Member
I don't ask for many remakes/remasters but Metroid Prime needs to be remastered in all it's glory. It's visual grandeur is a masterpiece that needs to be realized to its maximum potential. It is one of the best games ever made.
GoldenCrow
Member
Destiny could learn a lot from Metroid Prime, especially the boss encounters rather than a bullet sponge surrounded by minions. As well as implementing a story via exploring and placing the gameplay as the story telling narrative rather than a bunch of cutscenes.
Metroid Prime is easily still my favourite game,
Metroid Prime is easily still my favourite game,
I made a post about Metroid Prime a few years back summarizing my feelings towards the games.
Yeah, one of gamecube's finest and in my personal top 5. Itching to replay it, but I will postpone until the HDMI mod arrives
Yeah, one of gamecube's finest and in my personal top 5. Itching to replay it, but I will postpone until the HDMI mod arrives
Gusy
Member
So, backtracking. lets talk about it.
I think backtracking in adventure games works no different than backtracking when building a 500 piece table puzzle. Each new piece you get, you have to go back to the puzzle board and analyze where the new piece fit. Backtracking is the natural consequence of building a non-linear, interconected world. Not having backtracking would mean a strictly linear design.
A more extreme - exaggerated example would be people complaining in GTA V because they had to go back to the city to advance the story after reaching the desert - countryside environment.
Also backtracking in Metroid is not for the sake of inflating play times, its an integral part of the design, and part of the magic is going to old places with new tools and discovering new things.
I could understand how this design philosophy isn't for everyone though.
I think backtracking in adventure games works no different than backtracking when building a 500 piece table puzzle. Each new piece you get, you have to go back to the puzzle board and analyze where the new piece fit. Backtracking is the natural consequence of building a non-linear, interconected world. Not having backtracking would mean a strictly linear design.
A more extreme - exaggerated example would be people complaining in GTA V because they had to go back to the city to advance the story after reaching the desert - countryside environment.
Also backtracking in Metroid is not for the sake of inflating play times, its an integral part of the design, and part of the magic is going to old places with new tools and discovering new things.
I could understand how this design philosophy isn't for everyone though.
Red Arremer
Member
Pretty much of this opinion. I played the first 2 Prime games. I enjoyed them. They're solid games. I just don't agree that it's the second coming of Christ (but then again, I disagree with any game being considered that anyway).
sammyCYBORG
Member
MP is indeed a great game. It's a shame that the sequel had the awful dark world mechanics which was as fun as being punched in the face and spat on.
TheSpaceBetween
Member
There can never be enough threads praising the Prime games. I approve. We need another Retroid 
.
.victreeb3l
Member
MP1 is legendary. The art, the soundtrack, the gameplay. Such a perfect fusion of everything.
Dead_Pixel
Banned
I don't think you can sequence-break Metroid Prime like you could with Super Metroid?
With this definition You can also say that it 'almost invented FPP shooting' ...
E-Cat
Banned
One word to describe Metroid Prime would be "organic". Meaning both the intuitive control mechanics and meticulously designed environments. Exploring the world just feels right. The game oozes attention to detail, with something always crawling about behind the corner. All of this is further enhanced by the sublime OST. An experience like no other.
TheMoon
Member
You can sequence break it like crazy in the original first run version. How do you think people speedrun it in an hour or so.
His point is more that MP sort of "perfected" first person jumping by tilting the camera down while you were in the air so you can see where you'd land, something few or maybe even no other games had done at that point (I don't claim to have done comprehensive research on this). It made first person platforming work. Not so much the pure jumping but the platforming in first person. When other games (Half Life, for example) were notoriously hated for their first person platforming sections, Metroid Prime made it just work. Elegantly and effectively.
Metroid Prime 1 and Super are still the best of the entire franchise. It is a sad day that the piece of shit that was Other M almost killed the franchise. Yeah people are bitching about Federation Force but I'm looking forward to it, I love "grunt" stories so seeing things from the federation's viewpoint is going to be interesting. I just wish it actually had a player character and not some really generic marines. Metroid needs to have some more interesting side characters that don't die off.
Gusy
Member
No, the feel of first person shooting was good enough long before prime. Shooting in prime felt okay but it wasn't near that games priority, and that's ok. Its my humble opinion that Metroid Prime had the best feeling 1st person jumping around.
I could never get into Metroid Prime. I've only played the Wii version and think a lot of the blame is due to the Wii controls.
I'm frequently fighting with the motion controls. I'm always aware that I'm holding a remote control which prevents myself getting immersed in the game. Having to hold my hands towards the TV screen is exhausting after a while, I can never feel comfortable playing the game.
Maybe I'm just unfamiliar with the Wii remote but I have to keep looking down to see where the tiny and weirdly placed buttons are on the remote and nunchuck. This isn't helped by Nintendo's illogically named buttons. Minus, 2, C, plus, Z?
I hate the HUD. Makes me feel really claustrophobic like my head is inside a fish bowl. Thankfully it can be turned off. But the FOV seems very low to me.
The map controls are fucking awful. I can never get used to zooming in/out, panning and rotating the map.
The fuzzy 480p resolution is a little distracting. The rather bleak and muddy colour palette of the game doesn't help, everything is so dimly lit, there's no location in the game which is brightly lit.
I'm frequently fighting with the motion controls. I'm always aware that I'm holding a remote control which prevents myself getting immersed in the game. Having to hold my hands towards the TV screen is exhausting after a while, I can never feel comfortable playing the game.
Maybe I'm just unfamiliar with the Wii remote but I have to keep looking down to see where the tiny and weirdly placed buttons are on the remote and nunchuck. This isn't helped by Nintendo's illogically named buttons. Minus, 2, C, plus, Z?
I hate the HUD. Makes me feel really claustrophobic like my head is inside a fish bowl. Thankfully it can be turned off. But the FOV seems very low to me.
The map controls are fucking awful. I can never get used to zooming in/out, panning and rotating the map.
The fuzzy 480p resolution is a little distracting. The rather bleak and muddy colour palette of the game doesn't help, everything is so dimly lit, there's no location in the game which is brightly lit.
nkarafo
Member
Jumping Flash was the first game i played that did jumping in FP right. But still Metroid Prime is one of the 3 or 4 FP gamas that does it also right.
Perfect game, perfect controls, etc. The only bad thing about it is that, because of the first person perspective, many people thought it was a Halo clone or something, expecting similar controls, shooting mechanics and headshots. And dismissed it because it wasn't.
Sucks for them if you ask me.
Perfect game, perfect controls, etc. The only bad thing about it is that, because of the first person perspective, many people thought it was a Halo clone or something, expecting similar controls, shooting mechanics and headshots. And dismissed it because it wasn't.
Sucks for them if you ask me.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
The Wii controls do take a bit of getting used to. I remember fussing with them when I played 3, and I kinda didn't like the game at first, as a result. That said, when they click, they're really good.
Though... I still overwhelmingly prefer the GC versions of 1 and 2 to the Trilogy. Those games were built for the GC controller, and feel perfect on one.
nkarafo
Member
You don't like exploration in games? just because you don't doesn't mean games that have them are overrated. I, for instance, prefer backtracking than linear games with no exploration or discovering new paths and shortcuts.
This is how Metroid rolls. Its a game about exploring and expanding the same map with your new tools. It's why people love it and why some people may hate it. Unfortunatelly, due to the dumbing down of the game industry and how games are more mainstream than ever, many people seem to hate this kind of exploration in games. Most just want to go through a straight path and get spoon fed with some story. And this is why Metroid is now pretty much dead
I only liked Metroid Prime 3. It made the game more linear and got rid off some backtracking and annoying walking around without knowing where to go. I think I stopped playing Metroid Prime 1 when I went to an area right in the beginning where I couldn't survive. I couldn't be bothered to walk all the way back...
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
Metroid Prime 1 is one of my favorite games of all time. At worst, it's in my top 3, alongside Super Metroid and SOTN. I guess I'm predictable.
The atmosphere is absolutely the biggest thing that stands out to me. I don't think anything's improved on it since this game's release in 2002. Look at an area like Phendrana Drifts, and how perfect the art and the music fit together. Look at how effectively the atmosphere of the sunken ship makes you feel completely lost and kind of hopeless. There's a sense of place that's unmatched.
Metroid Prime 2 and 3 are also fantastic. I replayed 2 a couple months ago, and it's aged very well. But as good as those games are, Prime 1 will always been my favorite.
The atmosphere is absolutely the biggest thing that stands out to me. I don't think anything's improved on it since this game's release in 2002. Look at an area like Phendrana Drifts, and how perfect the art and the music fit together. Look at how effectively the atmosphere of the sunken ship makes you feel completely lost and kind of hopeless. There's a sense of place that's unmatched.
Metroid Prime 2 and 3 are also fantastic. I replayed 2 a couple months ago, and it's aged very well. But as good as those games are, Prime 1 will always been my favorite.
Gusy
Member
Give it another shot. And this may sound crazy but try to do it with the gamecube version on a wii hooked up with component cables to a good CRT tv. It looks beautiful in its native resolution. Play it with a wavebird.
cireza
Member
Metroid Prime games are among the best First Person games I played. My favorite is Echoes, because I love its universe and the new things it added to the series.
I think that my favorite First Person "Game" is Hexen, but Metroid Prime is definitely in the same category. Also love the very first Halo, Doom and Duke Nukem 3D.
I think that my favorite First Person "Game" is Hexen, but Metroid Prime is definitely in the same category. Also love the very first Halo, Doom and Duke Nukem 3D.
TheHolyTurnip
Member
The best FPS for me personally, mostly because the controls from so good and it's focused more on exploration than shooting. I also love the sense of immersion in the game, the HUD design the weighty jumping and stuff like this
(stolen from closed thread)
really bring you into the game. Throw in scanning, which not only gives story elements but also IMO gives a certain connection to Samus in the way she gathers intel and used it to further tactics and knowledge and you have a game that surpasses many others in exploration and world building, especially in an FPS. This series is the one of the reasons I look forward to VR, having this game on a Rift (which is/was? being done someone) just sounds like a perfect marriage, almost like it was designed for the idea over a decade before the reality. A masterful series indeed.
(stolen from closed thread)
really bring you into the game. Throw in scanning, which not only gives story elements but also IMO gives a certain connection to Samus in the way she gathers intel and used it to further tactics and knowledge and you have a game that surpasses many others in exploration and world building, especially in an FPS. This series is the one of the reasons I look forward to VR, having this game on a Rift (which is/was? being done someone) just sounds like a perfect marriage, almost like it was designed for the idea over a decade before the reality. A masterful series indeed.
Great metroidvanias dont have backtracking.
99% of games that claim to be metroidvanias are shallow imitations that dont really understand what they are trying to imitate.
Metroid Prime was a great metroidvania that just dropped the ball at the end with the artifact hunt.
There was a reason the original and super metroid had the boss statues as the keys, and not a bunch of random macguffins to go fetch destroying the pacing.
Hard locks like the fetch quests at the end of prime, and infesting echoes, do a lot of damage to metroidvania design and progression pacing.
If all your powerups are literally nothing more than a thinly disguised keys, to thinly disguised locks, or even worse, a ton of actual keys, to actual locks, youve made a shitty metroidvania, and one prone to have lots of tedious backtracking as opposed to engaging exploration.
E-Cat
Banned
Metroid Prime could indeed work brilliantly in VR. Imagine the cozy intimacy of raindrops falling on your visor in Tallon Overworld, or getting fogged up in Magmoor Caverns. Imagine shooting and scanning around independently of each other w/ one-to-one body tracking. I've always loved the HUD, because it's so meta - both an information bar and an in-game prop.
You may be isolated and alone in the world, but you feel safe inside the suit with all your gadgets. Bringing that experience into VR would amplify those feelings by an order of magnitude.
You may be isolated and alone in the world, but you feel safe inside the suit with all your gadgets. Bringing that experience into VR would amplify those feelings by an order of magnitude.
Amentallica
Unconfirmed Member
What? Nothing in the beginning of the game is difficult. The fault then lies with you if you found the game to be particularly hard early on. I never played Metroid Prime 3, unfortunately, but I've watched speedruns and walkthroughs and the game looks so unappealing to me.
One of the best games ever if not the best for me.
The incredible art design, the utterly dense and explorable world, innovative gameplay mechanics for its time and the organic feeling that the game gives you when progressing, there are few things that Prime did and still does wrong.
The incredible art design, the utterly dense and explorable world, innovative gameplay mechanics for its time and the organic feeling that the game gives you when progressing, there are few things that Prime did and still does wrong.
Gusy
Member
I think all great metroid-inspired games have some degree of backtracking. I do agree that the artifact hunt is not a great design choice but I feel it was made to force players to explore certain areas that have powerups and guarantee that they are well equipped for the final showdown. It reminds me of the way the original Wind Waker handled the triforce fetch quest.
In the end, to me the artifact quest is like a small dent on a otherwise perfect jewel. It doesn't make or break the game.
Pancakes R Us
Member
It really is just too awesome. And I must agree with everyone speaking up for the soundtrack. The music in Chozo Ruins was one of my favourites. Love the beats.
Super Metroid is one of my favorite game of all time and i REALLY don't say that easily. So i was really surprised to see Metroid Prime becoming that near of that perfection. I don't even like First Person Action to begin with but this one was so fantastic i could'nt help but loving every bit of it.
.... Well, too bad i didn't liked Metroid Prime 2... I found the environment not really interesting to explore and i didn't liked the fact the map was like a big up and several zone, it's not very "Metroid". (And the dark/light theme was a little "meh", a huge disappointment for me)
And then Metroid Prime 3 appeared.... Which was... Well, ok i suppose... As someone said before, they really want to avoid people backtracking which is too bad from my perspective. Still environment was fun to explore but to be honest i wanted to see something new as no follow up could equal what i loved with Metroid Prime anyway.
Liked the fact Retro Studio made Donkey Kong games after that to be honest, Tropical Freeze is like my second favorite 2D Plateformer of all time. I swear those guys are genius. I really want to see their next project, i don't know if i would like a Metroid Prime 4 too much.... Well, i will give it a chance i suppose.
.... Well, too bad i didn't liked Metroid Prime 2... I found the environment not really interesting to explore and i didn't liked the fact the map was like a big up and several zone, it's not very "Metroid". (And the dark/light theme was a little "meh", a huge disappointment for me)
And then Metroid Prime 3 appeared.... Which was... Well, ok i suppose... As someone said before, they really want to avoid people backtracking which is too bad from my perspective. Still environment was fun to explore but to be honest i wanted to see something new as no follow up could equal what i loved with Metroid Prime anyway.
Liked the fact Retro Studio made Donkey Kong games after that to be honest, Tropical Freeze is like my second favorite 2D Plateformer of all time. I swear those guys are genius. I really want to see their next project, i don't know if i would like a Metroid Prime 4 too much.... Well, i will give it a chance i suppose.
Gusy
Member
Apart Tallon's Overworld theme, the Phendrana's depths track (
near the gravity suit
To Far Away Times
Member
The original is on the short list for the greatest games of the DC/PS2/Xbox/GCN era.
I didn't care much for Prime 2 (start and stop dark/light word mechanic is meh) but Prime 1 is a must play experience.
I didn't care much for Prime 2 (start and stop dark/light word mechanic is meh) but Prime 1 is a must play experience.
Spieler Eins
Member
I disagree that it brings 2D Metroid to 3D in a ,,perfect way". It's a beast of its own, really. Amazing games, but completely different other than the OST. Prime is long, slow paced and wants you to scan everything for bonus endings. 2D Metroids are short, have fast paced platforming and give you bonuses for finishing fast. Which is why both series need real sequels.
dangerskew
Member
I bought Metroid Prime for the Gamecube probably in 2003, which was a time when I was playing a lot of PC shooters and pretty much nothing else. I was expecting a more traditional FPS and could not get myself to play the game for more than the first hour or so. I was 12 years old and didn't give the game another try until early this year when the Trilogy was released on the Wii U eShop.
The game holds up damn well and is probably the most atmospheric and immersive game I've ever played. I played it on a 100-inch projector in a dark basement and loud 5.1 speakers, which is probably the best setting possible to play this game in besides a non-existent VR remake. It's definitely not for everyone and requires a very patient, methodical state of mind to fully enjoy, but man, I'm having a hard time even finding the words to describe the feelings Metroid Prime put me through because of how different it is. Scanning is the sort of thing I normally loathe in games but I found myself scanning everything I could just to learn more about the world.
The soundtrack is incredible and the game wouldn't be anywhere close to as good as it is without it. Huge props to Kenji Yamamoto. Tallon Overworld and Phendrana Drifts are the two standouts for me.
Haven't played any of the other 2 games yet though.
The game holds up damn well and is probably the most atmospheric and immersive game I've ever played. I played it on a 100-inch projector in a dark basement and loud 5.1 speakers, which is probably the best setting possible to play this game in besides a non-existent VR remake. It's definitely not for everyone and requires a very patient, methodical state of mind to fully enjoy, but man, I'm having a hard time even finding the words to describe the feelings Metroid Prime put me through because of how different it is. Scanning is the sort of thing I normally loathe in games but I found myself scanning everything I could just to learn more about the world.
The soundtrack is incredible and the game wouldn't be anywhere close to as good as it is without it. Huge props to Kenji Yamamoto. Tallon Overworld and Phendrana Drifts are the two standouts for me.
Haven't played any of the other 2 games yet though.
Gusy
Member
The pacing of the 2d games are indeed completely different. Doing a 3d Metroid brings a whole new set of issues that don't exist in the 2d games, especially regarding movement. The slower pace of the Prime games is deliberate and is geared towards making it feel like an adventure-exploration game. The shooting/action is there to support the rest. Things like Super Metroid's speed boost would be very difficult to properly implement with a first person view.
However, the things I consider core in the Metroid experience made the jump to 3D incredibly well, those are:
- The feeling of solitude and the atmosphere.
- The morph ball mechanic.
- The semi-open, interconected world.
- Platforming/exploration infused level design.
- Power up progression system for shooting and traversal.
- Incredible music.
Nothing can be considered perfect, but as far as a 2d to 3D adaptation, it doesn't get much better than prime.
Valkyri von Thanatos
Member
I really dislike using this image macro/meme. I've never had a post of mine accused of being "bait", but 90% of the time I see it used, it comes off as very dismissive, unnecessarily so. Almost every time I see it used it seems like it is disregarding someone's opinions as simply someone "baiting" for controversy and anger when to me it seems like the user was honestly stating their opinion.
Personally I can in no way agree with the poster's statement, I think Metroid Prime is an incredible game, and backtracking can be a wonderful way of showcasing the player's empowerment as well as giving new perspective on an area through story or gameplay, among other things. But I don't believe that the poster was posting in order to "bait" anyone, they just have a controversial opinion.
Getting on topic some more, Metroid Prime really is amazing, and I think that the sequel does a good job building on it while trying new ideas. Metroid Prime 2: Echoes is a little bit worse than Prime 1, mostly because areas are a little too segregated (they don't connect to each other as much I think), and the pacing I think was a little slower (frequent Dark World transitions slowed down exploration and reduced the joy of returning to take a path you couldn't before, because often the paths you couldn't take before were 'invisible' the first time). The game is really great though, just didn't quite execute everything as well as the first, simply because they experimented and changed things up (something I appreciated).
I think Metroid Prime 3: Corruption was also quite good, but it lost a lot of mystery and feeling of explration compared to the previous two. Technically, all of the games in the Metroid series have some kind of expected course of progression, maybe with the exception of Metroid 2? It's been a while. The point is that they usually funnel a player through the environment through level design and puzzles/bottlenecks that must be solved with upgrades given by solving other puzzles or fighting bosses in an almost linear fashion. The best thing about this though is that in some cases it can be overridden through player ingenuity (sequence breaking), and even if not, most of the time this hidden linearity is very "silent".
I think MP2 started to break this first, with the Luminoth mentioning Samus should explore certain areas next (or so I remember), but MP3 really almost completely removed this invisible directing of the player. For one thing, there were simply more things/people straight telling Samus/the player where to go or what to do next. It wasn't happening constantly, but it happened too many times for it not to feel out of place. Even Fusion, which did something similar, did it less obtrusively I feel, and had the excellent twist of Adam not always being reliable, either because the power went out or because of him having conflicts of interest that twist the "player guide character" trope in order to make the interactions more interesting and allowing the impression of agency when Samus sometimes goes against orders.
But MP3 really just failed to execute this aspect properly, and instead the game's progression was very much more "directed" than before. The game didn't tell you everything you had to and everywhere you had to go, but it was a lot more frequent than before. The environments having a lot less inter-connectivity and branching also stripped away the illusion of non-linearity. I also think the game lacked as many interesting upgrades (no real new suits or visors) and stripping away the "combat puzzle" mechanics that Metroid Prime 1 introduced by taking away beam selectability and returning it to a static progressive upgrading system. This was fine in the previous 2D games because beams as different tools during a fight or for solving puzzles wasn't a concept back then, and the 2D combat gave the player enough to worry about with the much more agile and faster enemies without them having to also worry about changing weapons mid-combat.
But MP3 and all the Metroid Prime games lacked the sometimes crazy pace of battles that the 2D games sometimes had, and didn't need as precise aerial precision for both aiming and dodging. Fights in the Prime series are more like high intensity puzzles than high precision/speed fights with many enemies buzzing around all the time. So basically I'm saying that MP3 removed a key part of the Prime series' established combat loop, and that made the fights really more like "shoot a hundred times until its dead" affairs.
I still think MP3 is very good, but it definitely misses a lot of what made MP1 and 2 special.
Personally, I think Nintendo needs another Metroid Prime to really satisfy me with their coming hardware. However, I think another developer can do it justice besides Retro, and I think they should apply the Metroid Prime 1 and 2 style of gameplay to a new IP and let Nintendo's more internal development teams make Metroid Prime 4. As long as they keep Sakamoto from forcing bad story down our throats, and Nintendo just makes sure the project retains a similar tone to all the Metroid games before Metroid Prime 3 (not Hunters though), I think they can make a worthy first person Metroid Prime game. They could also make a 2D Metroid, and personally I really hope they try to finally make Metroid "5" soon, but I hope whatever it is, that it retains the mystery and sense of exploration the games are usually known for.