The Artful Dodger
Member
Best to just move on and get back to what's important: new Daario discussion.
This show is going to cancelled just like Luck now for that Horse death.
Best to just move on and get back to what's important: new Daario discussion.
If you have other topics from the show that you'd like to discuss, then by all means post them. Stopping by to just complain about the current subject isn't very helpful.That damned scene has basically ruined both threads.
In the show, I only remember Ned asking if Robert had struck her before, and she said no, otherwise Jaime would've killed him.
The raping thing, though, I also remember her saying Robert couldn't even perform in bed (drunk) so she'd "finish him off in other ways."
If you have other topics from the show that you'd like to discuss, then by all means post them. Stopping by to just complain about the current subject isn't very helpful.
Was this ever implied in the show or the books? I can't recall..
It was. Assuming the series going forward treats it as a consensual encounter going forward, though, it's going to stir up a hornet's nest with people who aren't able to see it as the badly executed scene that it is.Maureen Ryan's article was good.
No. Never.So do you think we'll see Coldhands this week?
I doubt we'll see much of the Second Sons due to time/budget constraints. Belwas was missed, but I thought they handled that scene well all things considered. I'm curious how they're going to pace out Dany's story relative to action in Westeros moving forward as it feels like they're rapidly burning through some of the plot right now.I was definitely wondering where the rest of the Second Sons were while Daario volunteered for that fight. It's the first time I've definitely though a scene was worse off because of a lack of Fat Belwas.
She didn't let Robert fuck her for the last three or so years if the marriage, and would only finish him with her mouth. She says he was always too drunk to remember anyhow.
If he was raping her, she put a stop to it at some point.
I doubt we'll see much of the Second Sons due to time/budget constraints. Belwas was missed, but I thought they handled that scene well all things considered. I'm curious how they're going to pace out Dany's story relative to action in Westeros moving forward as it feels like they're rapidly burning through some of the plot right now.
All of the titles are listed in the OP. Next week is "Oathkeeper"4.Title of next episode?
All of the titles are listed in the OP. Next week is "Oathkeeper"
It kind of amused me that the show conveniently forgot that Daario commands all of Dany's sellswords (after they merged the companies together) when they selected him to be her champion or at least assumed everyone watching would forget that.
Indeed. We need more Dolorous Edd one-liners though. That's greatly missing from the show!<3 pip
Fantastic post. Agreed on all counts.I admitted in my earlier post that there are many things that the show has got it right. I am no show hater nor I consider myself to be a book purist, I do think that the show runners have been able to trim characters and storylines masterfully, even if that means that some of my personal favourites are out (Belwas T_T), and I think that they have a knack for tweaking and adapting Martin's plot that it's getting better with each passing season. I do not like to hold into things if that means getting in the way of telling a good story.
But whenever they have tried to get their own vision of the characters, they have worsened them. They didn't made them "different", they made them outright worse: more bidimensonal, less grey, less coherent, less believable, worse written. And furthermore, they have changed them in order to obtein a short sighted cheap shock value scene, or just to validate their pre-existing prejudices about them. I think that the only people who can view Cersei's rape as "coherent" with Jaime's character are the ones who already thought that Jaime was outside of any possible redemption the moment he pushed Bran from the window.
IMHO, the added scenes were good despite its writting, not thanks to it. For example, I think that the idea of substituting Bolton for Tywin during Ayra's staying at Harrenhall was genious, but its execution was made great due to the incredible chemistry between Maisey and Charles Dance and the delivery of their lines, not because the dialogue itself was memorable in any way.
I get were you are coming from. I have readed some of the the interviews to the directors they even said that it was suppoused to "become consensual towards the end". If that's their intention, they failed, since it is clear that for a big chunk of the viewers that Cersei's willingness was not properly conveyed. If so, directors and writters failed to potray that scene properly, and Jaime's character arc has been badly damaged (and Cersei's too) due to plain sheer incompetence, no matter how much I might try to rationalize that mistake by telling myself that it was intentional or that it will pay off in the end.
A man has a thirst
I agree. I laughed out loud. And now I don't blame Dany for swooning at the man.2) That scene was freaking awesome in the best Indiana Jones type way
It was. I dare say it was stated outright. Robert repeatedly raped Cersei during their marriage, and he hit her a few times. Though, she told Ned, "never on the face" (before that one time) or anywhere visible, or Jaime would have killed him.Was this ever implied in the show or the books? I can't recall..
I have not been reading this thread actively for last few days.
1. What is the General consensus in regards to the last episode?
2. What is this Jaime/Cersei controversy about?
3. Is Jon Snow really Howland Reeds son?
4.Title of next episode?
I doubt we'll see much of the Second Sons due to time/budget constraints. Belwas was missed, but I thought they handled that scene well all things considered. I'm curious how they're going to pace out Dany's story relative to action in Westeros moving forward as it feels like they're rapidly burning through some of the plot right now.
But whenever they have tried to get their own vision of the characters, they have worsened them. They didn't made them "different", they made them outright worse: more bidimensonal, less grey, less coherent, less believable, worse written. And furthermore, they have changed them in order to obtein a short sighted cheap shock value scene, or just to validate their pre-existing prejudices about them. I think that the only people who can view Cersei's rape as "coherent" with Jaime's character are the ones who already thought that Jaime was outside of any possible redemption the moment he pushed Bran from the window.
Very well done episode, with a ton of awesome quotes and amazing direction by Alex Graves...
...except for that scene.
The controversy is kinda nuts right now but it breaks down into a few things. Basically it comes down to the question of whether Jamie raped Cersei or not. The thing is the director says that he intended it to turn consensual by the end. The evidence on screen for that assertion is limited to put it kindly. Then there are those on both sides calling the other side names (ie 'Damn those PC SJWs, and Anyone who didn't see that scene as rape is a horrible person, etc, etc.) and since rape is a touchy subject in the first place that is part of it.
The other part is if it IS rape (or at least perceived as such by many) what does that mean for Jamie's arc from here on out? In the books, Cersei is placed as the one with most of the power in their relationship, with Jamie finally breaking free. That whole arc is now in question.
Yes. If by Howland Reed you mean Rhaegar.
Oathkeeper.
It's the worst kept secret in Kings Landing.I seem to have forgotten but did Tywin know about Jaime and Cersei's relationship?
It's the worst kept secret inKings LandingWesteros.
It's the worst kept secret in Kings Landing.
I mean does he ever reference or mention it?
I seem to have forgotten but did Tywin know about Jaime and Cersei's relationship?
A lot of people liked him (myself included) because he was funny and quite badass. I thought he was pretty memorable myself, but I can understand why he was cut, and he's not that important in the grand scheme.What is the big deal about Strong Belwas? It's been a while since I read the books but I never really cared about him that much.
Yeah you do have to wonder. I suspect they are likely going to have to drum up some decent intrigues. Certainly can't see them spending more than season five in Meereen on top of this. AFFC & ADWD are going to get massively condensed for sure.
You talk about grey, but yet you hanker for a character that is seemingly one transformed wholesale by virtue of this relationship he has with Brienne. What's realistic about that? Up until he met her his entire life beyond being a Kingsguard revolved around his ongoing relationship with Cersei. That is all that matters to him. He doesn't even care that much about the children they have produced. Within the context of the narrative his sole motivation for escaping is to be reunited with Cersei, and eventually he achieves that but at a dreadful cost to himself. Instead of being overjoyed at their reunion Cersei is dismissive of him because he is no longer the fearsome capable man she was in love with. The nature of the relationship they shared has changed irrevocably, and she reduces him in stature to being merely another pawn to be played and it is that realisation that makes him act out the way that he does.
Yes. If by Howland Reed you mean Rhaegar.
It was. Assuming the series going forward treats it as a consensual encounter going forward, though, it's going to stir up a hornet's nest with people who aren't able to see it as the badly executed scene that it is.
No, what I mean is that if it's treated as a consensual encounter going forward, there are going to be a lot of really upset people as most won't be aware of the issues behind the scenes.What does this even mean. "Oh they just did a bad job that's not how it is in the text" doesn't make the thing harmless.
I hope they will play the Dornishman's wife during the creditsafter Oberyn's face gets smashed in.
The tears will be so good.
No, what I mean is that if it's treated as a consensual encounter going forward, there are going to be a lot of really upset people as most won't be aware of the issues behind the scenes.
Wonder how far they will take it. The smashed in face part I mean.
I don't understand why they said purple contacts wouldn't work.
I don't understand why they said purple contacts wouldn't work.
The TV series opted not to portray Targaryens with purples eyes, partially due to the logistical difficulty in matching up purple contact lenses for actors in every shot. The TV series actually did originally film Viserys and Daenerys wearing violet contact lenses, but showrunners David Benioff and Dan Weiss quickly abandoned their use. As they explained in the Season 1 Blu-ray episode commentaries, "actors act with their eyes, and [the lenses] really hurt the emotion."
The scene wasn't necessarily out of character, but it destroys their ability to do justice to Jaime's story going forward.
You talk about grey, but yet you hanker for a character that is seemingly one transformed wholesale by virtue of this relationship he has with Brienne. What's realistic about that? Up until he met her his entire life beyond being a Kingsguard revolved around his ongoing relationship with Cersei. That is all that matters to him. He doesn't even care that much about the children they have produced. Within the context of the narrative his sole motivation for escaping is to be reunited with Cersei, and eventually he achieves that but at a dreadful cost to himself. Instead of being overjoyed at their reunion Cersei is dismissive of him because he is no longer the fearsome capable man she was in love with. The nature of the relationship they shared has changed irrevocably, and she reduces him in stature to being merely another pawn to be played and it is that realisation that makes him act out the way that he does.
Originally Posted by Funky Papa
Just chiming in to say that I *love* Meereen. Concept artists have been doing a pretty good job with every city state, but Meereen has a very Summerian look that looks just right. It feels somewhat familiar, yet alien and incredibly ancient at the same time. Other shows would have just turned it into another moorish looking enclave and leave it at that. I also liked the details that it's not just another city state in the middle of a huge desert, but built into what looks like a somewhat fertile part of Essos, more Mediterranean than Saharian.
I agree.
When there's the shot of her on the horse in front of it [Meeren], i wished the whole show would take place there, instead of King's Landing.