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Update on the search for the Higgs boson at CERN
- Thread starter CiSTM
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That's a compliment among my circles.
Ok now I feel dumb, I followed the development of the higgs boson research lightly, but now reading more carefully the discovery is based on its weight (among other things), which makes me wonder, doesn't weight implies mass? I know they are not the same, but this is the particle that gives "mass", and was discovered by its "weight", do the other particles have weight? if so then why scientist were compelled to find a particle that gives mass, wouldn't the electrons, protons, etc be giving stuff "mass" already?
and now I don't know if that was clear...
and now I don't know if that was clear...
you shouldnt feel so sorry for yourself
The Higgs Boson is produced by the Higgs Field. This field is what gives particles mass.
Your rather unhelpful answer made me read more and I think I now understand.
Most subatomic particles don't have mass, some of them do, if you add up and "do the math", it actually doesn't add up, something else is giving stuff mass because the mass of protons, neutrons etc is tiny and almost irrelevant. People then proposed models, and the Higgs model seemed the most "agreeable", the model proposes a field, and this is what gives stuff mass, it implies a "particle" but thats not the important thing, the field is whats important. The interaction with this field was proven already, we knew it happened, we just didn't know how. So we needed the particle to really cement this idea as an actual understanding of the universe. What the LHC did was prove that this field exists because the particle is a proof of it existing, more or less. To see this particle you need this almost ridiculous giant accelerators because you can't just "disrupt" this field, you need to really charge it with high levels of energy.
If I got that right, then this moniker of "god particle" is the most terrible moniker ever given in the history of science. Not only the "god" part, but the fact that the particle is not really whats important here, this is telling us we live in a universe of fields, something that relativity already mentioned, but this is just more and more proof, which is really cool if you think about it. It sucks this isn't basic, common knowledge with everyone, most people probably read about this and all they are thinking is about a universe made of spheres colliding.
krameriffic
Member
When you examine general relativity through the lens of quantum field theory, gravitons are predicted as the quanta of the fields appropriate to classical GR. When you attempt to actually turn the crank of quantizing those classical fields to obtain a true quantum gravitation field theory, you run into problems that, despite the persistent efforts of the world's most brilliant physicists in the last 40 or so years, we cannot solve. We don't discard the idea of the graviton though because the notion of quantized fields with force carrying bosonic quanta has worked so well for every other force.
Be careful here. The difference in mass between 2 up quarks and 1 down quark and the proton they form when bound together is not the result of the Higgs field. This is the result of the binding energy of the strong force holding that color triplet of quarks together. The Higgs field in the standard model Lagrangian gives rise to the quark masses themselves. Protons and neutrons are not fundamental, but rather they are combinations of quarks bound together.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
The way you're describing this sounds like a reactionless drive, which certainly does violate CoM. If you're describing a gun setup, complete with recoil, then we already have ways to accelerate things slowly over large distances, even without resorting to fancy physics.
I'm sure knowledge of the Higgs-Boson will lead to neat science stuff, but I doubt it's any of the applications people are dreaming up in this thread.
a Master Ninja
Member
This news is hard to follow, so tell me what I need to know: Is it time for me to throw out my Stephen Hawking books?
Buddha Beam
Banned
Does anyone know what kind of advances in technology this can lead to? I've been following this thing pretty closely for a few years now, but I've never understood what kind of tangible benefits it could produce someday. Are we talking about stuff like anti gravity or something?
Nobody knows. There are plenty of ideas of where it can lead, but you aren't going to find out about anything for a while.
Buddha Beam
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krameriffic
Member
So I went from this video to an interview of Tyson by Stephen Colbert, and I found his wonderfully poignant retort to all the "what good is it" folks in this thread (at this time in the video):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXh9RQCvxmg&feature=player_detailpage#t=2860s
I remember this being posted a couple of months ago, and it shot up to one of my favorite interviews ever.
I couldn't tell you. You can read some science blogs or reddit science, but all I ever heard is 'I don't know'. sorry!
bean breath
Member
I stumbled on this local news broadcast about it, while channel surfing, that made me laugh. Skip to 1:30 -
http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/video/7465645-scientists-find-evidence-of-elusive-god-particle/
krameriffic
Member
Tyson articulates it better, and couches it better in both the historical context as well as the notion of hegemonic power. He also does a good job of conveying his obvious passion and philosophical reasoning for wanting to do it.
But damn, people piss me off when they ask me what good some branch of science is. If we knew that, we wouldn't need to do it would we?
Random thought. Is this in line with our knowledge of gravity? We don't really know what causes gravity, much like we couldn't really explain what gave particles mass. The Higgs Boson is the quantum of the Higgs field, correct? Every quantum field must have a quantum/fundamental particle associated with it. We have now found the Higgs Boson, thus explaining this mass thing. If we were to find the quantum of the gravity field, would we be able to confirm its existence?
Don't take this in a literal sense, more of a hypothetical sense. ie find quantum of a field -> prove existence of said field -> rejoice about our knowledge of the universe.
Don't take this in a literal sense, more of a hypothetical sense. ie find quantum of a field -> prove existence of said field -> rejoice about our knowledge of the universe.
Awesome stuff.
I always fail to comprehend stuff of this magnitude, but documentaries like this always help to comprehend.
I always fail to comprehend stuff of this magnitude, but documentaries like this always help to comprehend.
Net_Wrecker
Member
So this is, like, gonna give me teleportation technology in my sneakers right? Cause I need some summer kicks, nah'mean. What science really gon do for me, yo.
But really, this is exciting. Looking forward to what comes of it in the next few years.
But really, this is exciting. Looking forward to what comes of it in the next few years.
SnakeswithLasers
Member
I saw this analogy this morning to the Higgs field and am wondering how 'accurate' it is, because I still don't really understand:
Without the Higgs field, since all particles are actually very light, they shouldn't have as much mass as they do, but the Higgs field acts kind of like friction and makes them seem heavier. It's like trying to move a piece of furniture across a hardwood floor--it's really easy because your couch isn't actually all that heavy. However, the Higgs field essentially covers your floor with carpet, making the couch feel a lot heavier and more difficult to push.
Without the Higgs field, since all particles are actually very light, they shouldn't have as much mass as they do, but the Higgs field acts kind of like friction and makes them seem heavier. It's like trying to move a piece of furniture across a hardwood floor--it's really easy because your couch isn't actually all that heavy. However, the Higgs field essentially covers your floor with carpet, making the couch feel a lot heavier and more difficult to push.
Xenon
Member
So following that analogy and taking some liberty with the term "god particle", one could say that Jesus laid or even installed the foundation of the universe.
I watched two videos today which helped me understand it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIg1Vh7uPyw&feature=player_embedded
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/video/2012/jul/03/what-is-a-higgs-boson-video
I think you are under the impression that if the Higgs field wasn't there, these particles would still have some mass. I don't think that is correct. If the Higgs field wasn't there, the particles would have any mass at all and would travel at light speed. At least, that is how I understand it from the videos. Correct me if I'm wrong.
There are more videos here: http://www.theverge.com/2012/7/5/3138469/what-is-higgs-boson-videos
Or this.
Yup. The Higgs field, unlike other fields, is everywhere all the time in the universe. And the quanta of this field (what it is made up out of) is the Higgs Boson.
So subatomic particles are interacting with the Higgs field at all times. Well, some of them at least. Photons don't which is why they 1)have no rest mass 2)travel at the speed of light. If the other subatomic particles didn't interact with the Higgs in some way, they too would be zipping around the universe at the speed of light, and we wouldn't have matter.
Here's another pretty good 5 minute video on it
Particular quote from the video:
"The Higgs particle[Higgs-boson] acts like 'sticky bits' that puts a drag on particles. And it is this drag that we detect as rest mass" [for that particular particle].
I don't know if these have been posted, but just some lol's surrounding the Higgs Boson Announcement:
Apple to Sue CERN over Higgs Boson
DerpParticle Twitter Account
Apple to Sue CERN over Higgs Boson
DerpParticle Twitter Account
Ratzinger is writing his resignation letter as we speak.
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