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[Biker19]

Microsoft trailing Sony has proven to be excellent for consumer choice. Falling behind is the reason why they've shed their DRM policies, dropped Kinect as pack in, done game bundles and the holiday price cut. If we had some magical sales parity, they wouldn't have. So, Sony being out ahead is actually creating a better deal for consumers to choose from as Microsoft has to try and catch up. That's how competition works.

This is what so many posters on here don't get. Competition is never about "having sales parity." Never has been, & never will be as long as I've been gaming. It didn't happen on the 3rd generation, the 4th generation, the 5th generation, the 6th generation, or this generation that's happening now.

A company isn't going to have their platforms succeed each & every time.

 

[Occam]

Lesson number 6: if someone is being nice to you, it's because they want a favor.

That's a pretty negative outlook. I am sometimes nice to others just because. You know, altruism.

 

[SparkTR]

I might be fucked up or something, but I hope Sony will keep outselling Xbox by at least 30-40%. I like underdog Microsoft much more than it being on top, I am still salty from 360 game selection after 2010 when they went full "Kinect", with horrible Xbox One reveal following that.

Now that they are behind Sony, I feel like it's more of OG Xbox/early 360 Microsoft again.

The OG/Early 360 Microsoft were under the impression that console hardware would lead them to what is essentially the smartphone/tablet market right now, that's why they willingly lost billions during that period. I don't think they have those kinds of ambitions anymore, I don't doubt a weak Xbox brand will mean the end of high-end dedicated Xbox gaming hardware. In fact I'd bet on it.

 

[GnawtyDog]

"History has shown us that the first company to reach 10 million in console sales wins the generation battle" - Don Mattrick.

Can't argue with that. Man I'd love another PS2-type domination, it'll only help push MS to keep pumping out games like SO etc. Glad to see the Wii U is still somewhat hanging in there as well.

Also keep Tomb Raider off competing platforms. Also make investors whine and dance with the idea of killing the Xbox division - however unlikely some of you might think that is (the division is bleeding money - the extent of which is unknown). Also kill the generation earlier (5 years) and pump "slightly better" hardware just to get a year ahead. If people are crying about the jump from last gen to this gen not being that noticeable - I can only imagine in a 5 year cycle - the rage. Also, VR. Also MS just needs to do what they are doing since Phil got on board without the need for a competitor/or sales to drive them - tho survival is a powerful motivator, usually the strongest.

 

[wachie]

That's a pretty negative outlook. I am sometimes nice to others just because. You know, altruism.

You are being nice because you want a favor down the road, haha.

 

[GreenFear]

Lots of sony fanboys in this thread.

 

[Manmademan]

The OG/Early 360 Microsoft were under the impression that console hardware would lead them to what is essentially the smartphone/tablet market right now, that's why they willingly lost billions during that period. I don't think they have those kinds of ambitions anymore, I don't doubt a weak Xbox brand will mean the end of high-end dedicated Xbox gaming hardware.

Good point. I can see this being the last generation of dedicated Xbox consoles by Microsoft if the xbone ends up clocking in under 50 million. It just wouldn't be worth the effort.

I can see the Xbox brand/ip sold off and continued under another company though.

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

I remember posting in one of these prediction threads that of course both will revert back to focus on the core, the same way the late PS2-era was Buzz and EyeToy and that stuff.

I would not in a thousand year have bet on that Microsoft wouldn't start the usual routine of core first and then expand later when the price points are more acceptable to the mass market.

Yeah, trying to catch that lighting in a bottle that was Wii and later the Kinect sales explosion from the onset is far to volatile since it's so unpredictable. Nintendo couldn't follow as the Wii landed in the perfect time and price before the phone/tablet revolution. Building that core and just following through and expanding like you said is the safer bet as there is always the core there to buy the systems and games in the beginning.

 

[Exquisik]

That's a pretty negative outlook. I am sometimes nice to others just because. You know, altruism.

But behind every altruism, there's an ulterior motive...

Spoiler

JK. Selflessness does exist, albeit marginally.

 

[Occam]

You are being nice because you want a favor down the road, haha.

Nope, random strangers who I'll never meet again are included in my above statement.

 

[PoweredByHentai]

I used to really dig ars, specially their programming articles. But recently I feel like its becoming more click bait and not full blown in depth analysis of the subject on hand. Their gaming side wasn't really that great to begin with and Kyle is just bad.

I totally understand you. >_<

Nowadays, I pretty much just lurk the site and read up their explanatory features on science and whenever they have someone competent write on technology.

Looking at how Kuchera turned out after he left Ars Technica gave me the impression that they have staff who will at least clamp down on the rabid emotions of their video games journalist. Seeing Kyle post that stupid article with the whole "Pyrrhic Victory" section pretty much dissolved what ever expectations I had for their editors to clamp down on such behavior from their video games journalist.

 

[toastyToast]

Lesson number 1: do not ascribe to non-human entities (i.e. corporations) human emotions.

Lesson number 2: no one cares about you. Embrace this and you will be happier.

Lesson number 3: things you cannot change and do not like are not worth trying to change. No one is impressed that you spend energy spinning useless cycles.

Lesson number 4: if you cannot or choose not to reconcile your perspective with reality, at least keep your screaming internal so as not to wake the neighbors (and show everyone you are a loon).

Lesson number 5: losing is supposed to taste like a shit taco.

Lesson number 6: if someone is being nice to you, it's because they want a favor.

Lesson number 7: it is unlikely that things people post on twitter are well considered and/or considered at all, so perhaps you should not think too deeply about them.

Lesson number 8: if the only ways you can describe something include the words "laughable," "atrocious," or the phrase "dat XXX doe," perhaps you should not describe it.

Lesson number 9: never state your EXPECTATIONS up front unless you are 99.5% certain the expectation will develop into reality. Otherwise people will find it later and you will look dumb (this is "The Hindle Rule")

lesson number 10: no one cares about what your friends are buying. Seriously stop posting about it.

The 10 gaf commandments

 

[SparkTR]

Good point. I can see this being the last generation of dedicated Xbox consoles by Microsoft if the xbone ends up clocking in under 50 million. It just wouldn't be worth the effort.

I can see the Xbox brand/ip sold off and continued under another company though.

It probably won't be sold off (maybe spun off?). They built the brand, incorporated it in their other platforms and internally people seem to like it. Most likely it'll continue to become a Microsoft-wide comprehensive entertainment service with a heavy emphasis on streaming and multiplatform connectivity. It just won't be defined by generational high-end hardware releases like it is now, or tentpole game releases.

 

[StylesClash]

I'll say this. At least my Xbox one hasn't given me an error code at least 30 times.

 

[Firmus_Anguis]

Also keep Tomb Raider off competing platforms. Also make investors whine and dance with the idea of killing the Xbox division - however unlikely some of you might think that is. Also kill the generation earlier (5 years) and pump "slighly better" hardware. If people are crying about the jump from last gen to this gen not being that noticeable - I can only imagine in a 5 year cycle - the rage. Also, VR.

Yes, because the PS3 is only marginally better than the PS2... Oh, wait.
While I don't agree with them "buying" timed exclusivity for games intended for multiple platforms, you can't deny the fact that it backfired on them hard. Their approach with new IP's like SO and QB on the otherhand is being praised. So they'll hopefully continue on in that path.
EDIT:
And I'm not trying to defend the shitty stuff they've done and most likely won't ever completely stop doing... But they'll come to accept their loss for this gen eventually, and it seems they're at least putting up somewhat of a fight, which is undeniably good (when not fought dirty of course).
I'm mostly just happy about Sony being in the position I think they truly deserve to be.

 

[Blablurn]

I'll say this. At least my Xbox one hasn't given me an error code at least 30 times.

Damn. What a statement.

 

[Toki767]

I'll say this. At least my Xbox one hasn't given me an error code at least 30 times.

Mine has. What's your point?

 

[StylesClash]

Damn. What a statement.

It's true. Call of duty. Today 8 times in a row even after deleting everything

 

[Occam]

But behind every altruism, there's an ulterior motive...

Spoiler

JK. Selflessness does exist, albeit marginally.

Well, I guess you could argue that doing good deeds makes yourself feel good and is therefore self-serving. But first and foremost it also serves those you help, so it can't be purely ulterior.

 

[GnawtyDog]

Yes, because the PS3 is only marginally better than the PS2... Oh, wait.
While I don't agree with them "buying" timed exclusivity for games intended for multiple platforms, you can't deny the fact that it backfired on them hard. Their approach with new IP's like SO and QB on the otherhand is being praised. So they'll hopefully continue on in that path.

MS bought in a way exclusivity rights for SO. Since well, the IP is owned by Insomniac - not MS. I do agree with QB but well, it's not like anyone expects MS to have 0-output. 4k gaming in 5 years on a console at $400...that's a brave bet.

 

[StylesClash]

Mine has. What's your point?

Your Xbox one has dashboarded that many times? Sorry to hear that. My point is that I've never had an issue like this with any console ever and I'm tired of it. And I see a lot of people with this error and Sony hasn't done jack to fix it and that's fucked up.

 

[NinjamicWZ]

I'll say this. At least my Xbox one hasn't given me an error code at least 30 times.

Moar like Errorstation, amirite?

 

[Apathy]

It probably won't be sold off (maybe spun off?). They built the brand, incorporated it in their other platforms and internally people seem to like it. Most likely it'll continue to become a Microsoft-wide comprehensive entertainment service with a heavy emphasis on streaming and multiplatform connectivity. It just won't be defined by generational high-end hardware releases like it is now, or tentpole game releases.

For the foreseable future it is safe regardless of how much money it hemorrhages. I mean the only reason they got rid of the Zune was because it really really failed in the market space. The Xbox has less competition in the console market than the Zune did in the portable music player market, and Sony does not have the control that Apple did in their respective markets.

 

[AmyS]

Okay so original Xbox had four years before Xbox 360 came out (2001 - 2005) right, and 360 had eight years before Xbox One came out (2005 - 2013). I don't see PS4 completely dominating the way PS2 did but I also don't see (at this point anyway) Xbox One going more than five years before Microsoft has its successor out. Xbox One is pretty successful, just not on the same level as PS4. With that said, I don't see PS4 going more than six years before Sony has PS5 out. Assuming the PlayStation business remains Sony's main bread winner over the next few years, I can't see them not having PS5 out later than 2019.

 

[boredandlazy]

Your Xbox one has dashboarded that many times? Sorry to hear that. My point is that I've never had an issue like this with any console ever and I'm tired of it. And I see a lot of people with this error and Sony hasn't done jack to fix it and that's fucked up.

If your game is crashing and your getting booted back to the home screen, wouldn't the first thought be it's an issue with the game rather than the console?

 

[SwiftDeath]

That's a pretty negative outlook. I am sometimes nice to others just because. You know, altruism.

I always knew there were dolphins posting on Gaf but now I have proof!

Spoiler

Profit-seeking companies generally are less prone to altruistic tendencies than individuals in my experience

 

[crazyprac]

Your Xbox one has dashboarded that many times? Sorry to hear that. My point is that I've never had an issue like this with any console ever and I'm tired of it. And I see a lot of people with this error and Sony hasn't done jack to fix it and that's fucked up.

Lol? Umm... Uh... The.. Lol?

 

[PoweredByHentai]

Also keep Tomb Raider off competing platforms. Also make investors whine and dance with the idea of killing the Xbox division - however unlikely some of you might think that is (the division is bleeding money - the extent of which is unknown). Also kill the generation earlier (5 years) and pump "slightly better" hardware just to get a year ahead. If people are crying about the jump from last gen to this gen not being that noticeable - I can only imagine in a 5 year cycle - the rage. Also, VR. Also MS just needs to do what they are doing since Phil got on board without the need for a competitor/or sales to drive them - tho survival is a powerful motivator, usually the strongest.

I wish that Microsoft had been more transparent or honest about Tomb Raider 2 being a timed exclusive instead of being all coy and whatnot. Nothing generates ill will faster than being toyed with for a non-critical concern.

The DRM fear going into E3 2013 was a critical concern and that could have terribly wrong if it wasn't handled properly. We all know what happened: Microsoft screwed that up and Sony absolutely cashed in on it with the smug look of a World Series of Poker championship winner.

In this age of instant access to information, being transparent is essential for nipping damaging rumors before they get out of hand.

 

[StylesClash]

If your game is crashing and your getting booted back to the home screen, wouldn't the first thought be it's an issue with the game rather than the console?

If it's one game yes. If it's multiple games no.

 

[TrojanBlade]

Amazing run for Sony. They did a great job winning back the players they lost last gen.

Now release a GTAV bundle for November and see them sell even more. Do it Sony!

 

[crazyprac]

Spoiler

Profit-seeking companies generally are less prone to altruistic tendencies than individuals in my experience

I pretend google gives me all this stuff for free.

 

[PoweredByHentai]

I always knew there were dolphins posting on Gaf but now I have proof!

Spoiler

Profit-seeking companies generally are less prone to altruistic tendencies than individuals in my experience

I think that depends on whether companies can write off their charity donations off for enough tax credits for it to be worthwhile.

 

[Occam]

Spoiler

Profit-seeking companies generally are less prone to altruistic tendencies than individuals in my experience

They often resemble psychopaths. Some more than others.

 

[GnawtyDog]

I wish that Microsoft had been more transparent or honest about Tomb Raider 2 being a timed exclusive instead of being all coy and whatnot. Nothing generates ill will faster than being toyed with for a non-critical concern.

The DRM fear going into E3 2013 was a critical concern and that could have terribly wrong if it wasn't handled properly. We all know what happened: Microsoft screwed that up and Sony absolutely cashed in on it with the smug look of a World Series of Poker championship winner.

In this age of instant access to information, being transparent is essential for nipping damaging rumors before they get out of hand.

Consumers absolutely love transparency. Same way voters ask for transparency from lawmakers etc....people are not stupid and have obviously shown throughout the history of human kind that shit smells like shit. I mean the smell...

DRM wasn't a rumour tho...it was a policy MS was going to implement and thank god they scrapped that. The Tomb Raider deal, well, the obfuscating of the fact that the game is allowed to come/not come to the PS4 is what bothers people. Not that it's timed per say (tho problematic all the same)....

 

[gribbles]

That's a pretty negative outlook. I am sometimes nice to others just because. You know, altruism.

It's more cynical than negative. If you've been fucked over enough times by people in life, you tend to develop such a cynical view.

 

[Firmus_Anguis]

MS bought in a way exclusivity rights for SO. Since well, the IP is owned by Insomniac - not MS. I do agree with QB but well, it's not like anyone expects MS to have 0-output. 4k gaming in 5 years on a console at $400...that's a brave bet.

What makes you so sure Sony won't invest in hardware? I'd argue the opposite. Their PlayStation division is doing extremely well, so I'd assume they'd invest even more than this gen.
And MS was totally caught off-guard with everything really; Sony came out swinging right from the get-go. If MS is in it for another round, I bet you they'll be more prepared.
It's going to be fun!

 

[Apathy]

Consumers absolutely love transparency. Same way voters ask for transparency from lawmakers etc....people are not stupid and have obviously shown throughout the history of human kind that shit smells like shit.

DRM wasn't a rumour tho...it was a policy MS was going to implement and thank god they scrapped. The Tomb Raider deal, well, the obfuscating of the fact that the game is allowed to come/not come to the PS4 is what bothers people. Not that it's timed per say (tho problematic all the same)....

I'll disagree on a small point. While individual humans might not be stupid, as a collective we are. We get lied to by politicians/companies all the time and as long as we like the lie or as long as we can't tell it's a lie we don't care. What we hate is when someone lies to us in a way where we know it's a lie and we can call them out for it. That's when we get vindictive, and we know how to do vindictive well.

 

[Renekton]

If MS is in it for another round, I bet you they'll be more prepared.

Not sure if Karma Nutella feels the same way about the Xbox division.

I feel he's just paying lip service because Gates (with his OG Xbox living room goal) is still influential in MS.

 

[PoweredByHentai]

Consumers absolutely love transparency. Same way voters ask for transparency from lawmakers etc....people are not stupid and have obviously shown throughout the history of human kind that shit smells like shit.

DRM wasn't a rumour tho...it was a policy MS was going to implement and thank god they scrapped. The Tomb Raider deal, well, the obfuscating of the fact that the game is allowed to come/not come to the PS4 is what bothers people. Not that it's timed per say (tho problematic all the same)....

Before E3 2013, no one had any firm evidence that it was MS policy to force DRM aside from "supposed Xbox One devkits" that were somehow made available to the public from the Australian hacker SuperDaE (sp?). All we had was a question with confusing and contradictory answers from multiple Microsoft executives.

None of this was made clear to anyone until the Thursday before E3 2013.

This was a critical concern and consumers have every right to understand what Microsoft's policies and visions were before consumers would part with their money.

This is in contrast to Sony saying that the PS4 would not have such an abusive DRM system back in February of 2013:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...gamer-playstation-4-will-not-block-used-games

The fact that people were disturbed by Microsoft's refusal to give a straight answer and were essentially panicking to Sony gave Sony a reason to shout louder at a more convenient event: E3 2013. Also, everyone LOVES this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWSIFh8ICaA

 

[RamzaIsCool]

Your Xbox one has dashboarded that many times? Sorry to hear that. My point is that I've never had an issue like this with any console ever and I'm tired of it. And I see a lot of people with this error and Sony hasn't done jack to fix it and that's fucked up.

I think what he meant is why are you telling us this in a thread about PS4 sales. It's random, offtopic and adds nothing to the conversation.

 

[quetz67]

"History has shown us that the first company to reach 10 million in console sales wins the generation battle" - Don Mattrick.

Can't argue with that. Man I'd love another PS2-type domination, it'll only help push MS to keep pumping out games like SO etc.

I will NEVER EVER understand this reasoning. Do you think Sunset Overdrive wouln't have been developed if XB1 was more successful. Or that Sony just puts their studios in idle mode just because they are winning anyway?

 

[GnawtyDog]

I'll disagree on a small point. While individual humans might not be stupid, as a collective we are. We get lied to by politicians/companies all the time and as long as we like the lie or as long as we can't tell it's a lie we don't care. What we hate is when someone lies to us in a way where we know it's a lie and we can call them out for it. That's when we get vindictive, and we know how to do vindictive well.

People care. The complexity of how to address matters is another thing entirely. I mean no one is going to do a coup d'état for every lie a politician gives. Just not how it works....rule of law and all that. I do get your point - we all been there...

 

[Firmus_Anguis]

Not sure if Karma Nutella feels the same way about the Xbox division.

I feel he's just paying lip service because Gates (with his OG Xbox living room goal) is still influential in MS.

That might very well be the case, but I'm hoping it's not. As much as I've loathed a lot of the stuff they've tried to pull - Without them, we'd still have arrogant Sony. Sony changed for the better because of MS and that's undeniable. So hopefully Sony will have the same effect on MS.

 

[SparkTR]

For the foreseable future it is safe regardless of how much money it hemorrhages. I mean the only reason they got rid of the Zune was because it really really failed in the market space. The Xbox has less competition in the console market than the Zune did in the portable music player market, and Sony does not have the control that Apple did in their respective markets.

The Zune indeed was a failure, and the portable music player market was drying up significantly after it's peak in 2008, I'm guessing they didn't really need that hardware when everything was consolidating to smartphones regardless. But yeah they just put out a $500 machine so they're not going drop support or create doubt over it's future overnight. I just have my doubts whether the console hardware market is worth all that much to Microsoft anymore, and whether there'll be another round for them after this.

 

[Avatar1]

I'll say this. At least my Xbox one hasn't given me an error code at least 30 times.

No the shit straight up crashes without a code. I've had software and apps crash all the time. I also have to power cycle to get out of freezes.

Your right tho ... no error codes... lol.

 

[wapplew]

The Zune indeed was a failure, and the portable music player market was drying up significantly after it's peak in 2008, I'm guessing they didn't really need that hardware when everything was consolidating to smartphones regardless. But yeah they just put out a $500 machine so they're not going drop support or create doubt over it's future overnight. I just have my doubts whether the console hardware market is worth all that much to Microsoft anymore, and whether there'll be another round for them after this.

Surface cost MS a lot more at first, didn't stop them keep pumping out new iteration.
That's what MS good at, they have the resource and they will outlast their competition if they want.

 

[Biker19]

That might very well be the case, but I'm hoping it's not. As much as I've loathed a lot of the stuff they've tried to pull - Without them, we'd still have arrogant Sony. Sony changed for the better because of MS and that's undeniable. So hopefully Sony will have the same effect on MS.

There can easily be another competitor that can replace MS if they go away. Heck, Nintendo will go toe to toe with Sony being on par with each other.

Gaming will still go on, whatever MS sticks around or not.

 

[Withnail]

Before E3 2013, no one had any firm evidence that it was MS policy to force DRM aside from "supposed Xbox One devkits" that were somehow made available to the public from the Australian hacker SuperDaE (sp?). All we had was a question with confusing and contradictory answers from multiple Microsoft executives.

None of this was made clear to anyone until the Thursday before E3 2013.

This was a critical concern and consumers have every right to understand what Microsoft's policies and visions were before consumers would part with their money.

This is in contrast to Sony saying that the PS4 would not have such an abusive DRM system back in February of 2013:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...gamer-playstation-4-will-not-block-used-games

The fact that people were disturbed by Microsoft's refusal to give a straight answer and were essentially panicking to Sony gave Sony a reason to shout louder at a more convenient event: E3 2013. Also, every LOVES this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWSIFh8ICaA

I'm not really sure what you're trying to say, but it's a fact that under the original plans

XB1 would stop working if it couldn't phone home every 24 hours
Microsoft were going to take complete control of the used game market
it would become impossible to rent games or lend your own games to friends

Yes this stuff leaked a long time before it was confirmed, but these policies were never going to be popular even if Microsoft had been open about it from the start.

 

[Firmus_Anguis]

I will NEVER EVER understand this reasoning. Do you think Sunset Overdrive wouln't have been developed if XB1 was more successful. Or that Sony just puts their studios in idle mode just because they are winning anyway?

Of course it might've been. But it might not have been exclusive. The fact that Sony has the upperhand, means they don't have to prove anything to consumers. MS on the other hand needs to prove their system's worth.
Sony is comfortably delaying games left and right, because there is no pressure to release unfinished games. Look at last gen as an example - I remember reading an article about how Sony demanded ND make a game to directly compete with Gears, they needed something to stay afloat, because brand loyalty wasn't cutting it. That game turned out to be Uncharted. So yes, your competition can have a direct influence on your decision making.
MS went from tv, tv, tv to games, games, games. Are you telling me they just did that on a whim?

 

[Apathy]

I'm not really sure what you're trying to say, but it's a fact that under the original plans

XB1 would stop working if it couldn't phone home every 24 hours
Microsoft were going to take complete control of the used game market
it would become impossible to rent games or lend your own games to friends

Yes this stuff leaked a long time before it was confirmed, but these policies were never going to be popular even if Microsoft had been open about it from the start.

Not that I want it to happen, nor is it that I want MS to fail, but just out of morbid curiosity, could you imagine a world where they did go through with their plans and seeing the magnificent failure that could be (for any company to have done something that asinine). Would have been like a car crash you just can't look away from with how they could have ruined a brand in one single swoop.