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US Ally Bahrain murdering peaceful protesters

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OttomanScribe said:
I think such discussions are relevant to the topic, unless we take it to be really really specific. I am sure we are all capable of keeping the topic in mind, and there it is not impossible to have several threads of conversation running simultaneously.

Considering the way that sectarianism is used as an excuse, some understanding of the sects for those who don't know is a positive thing.
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That's just it, sectarianism is being used as an excuse, so we shouldn't focus so much on that. I just don't want people to lose sight of what's going on, you'd be surprised how fast it can happen in threads.

No one is mentioning sects or religion when it came to Egypt, or Tunisia, or now Libya and Yemen and Jordan and Oman, etc. They're just human beings who want the same rights as everyone else and don't want to live under oppression and ruling tyrants. As soon as it happens in Bahrain, all of sudden, "teh evil Shias who are devious want chaos!" etc etc.
 
That's just it, sectarianism is being used as an excuse, so we shouldn't focus so much on that. I just don't want people to lose sight of what's going on, you'd be surprised how fast it can happen in threads.

No one is mentioning sects or religion when it came to Egypt, or Tunisia, or now Libya and Yemen and Jordan and Oman, etc. They're just human beings who want the same rights as everyone else and don't want to live under oppression and ruling tyrants. As soon as it happens in Bahrain, all of sudden, "teh evil Shias who are devious want chaos!" etc etc.
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I agree that sectarianism shouldn't be an issue, in fact I've said so on numerous occasions in this thread. That said, I don't think that an explanation or answering a question will derail the thread. Though a Wahhabi argument might. So to stop that, I make the intention not to reply if anyone questions my definition of Wahhabi :D

That said I stand by the need for people to understand the basic terms that we are using. They had the decency to ask, and I don't think they should be met with no answer.
 
shinobi602 said:
No one is mentioning sects or religion when it came to Egypt, or Tunisia, or now Libya and Yemen and Jordan and Oman, etc. They're just human beings who want the same rights as everyone else and don't want to live under oppression and ruling tyrants. As soon as it happens in Bahrain, all of sudden, "teh evil Shias who are devious want chaos!" etc etc.
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In those other countries it was national revolutions, in Egypt muslims and christians were united against the regime lol.

I'm in for shias' rights and equality in bahrain, but it's not the same.
 
L0st Id3ntity said:
In those other countries it was national revolutions, in Egypt muslims and christians were united against the regime lol.

I'm in for shias' rights and equality in bahrain, but it's not the same.
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Do we have to go through this again in this thread too? It's been beaten to death in the older one. How the fuck is it not the same?

I really hope you're just pulling our legs with that post.
 
Meanwhile...

fusvp1.jpg


http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/meast/03/18/bahrain.protests/index.html

The government explained the demolition by saying it was done "out of the government's keenness to optimize services and improve the infrastructure" and that it would "boost flow of traffic in this vital area of the capital," according to the state-run Bahrain News Agency.
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Yeah, I'm going to miss Lulu Roundabout (A.K.A. GCC Roundabout). It's ironic that the Bahraini government demolished it while being supported by GCC troops.
 
lo escondido said:
Holy crap. Isn't that like tearing down the statue of liberty to "boost the flow of boat traffic of new york"?
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It's to demoralize the people. A symbol of their gatherings and movement...it won't work. The damage has already been done. What's happened in Bahrain will never be forgiven.
 
shinobi602 said:
No one is mentioning sects or religion when it came to Egypt, or Tunisia, or now Libya and Yemen and Jordan and Oman, etc. They're just human beings who want the same rights as everyone else and don't want to live under oppression and ruling tyrants. As soon as it happens in Bahrain, all of sudden, "teh evil Shias who are devious want chaos!" etc etc.
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Religion is completely central to the issues in Bahrain, though. The protests in the other countries you listed are largely motivated by economic concerns, and Bahrain doesn't have those problems. People are protesting there because of blatant pro-Sunni corruption within the government. They have a government actively trying to undermine the majority religion, and considering they do things like granting Sunnis automatic citizenship to dilute the Shiite majority, religious discrimination is at the heart of the issue. There is a lot of bad blood between the two groups, among the worst in the region.
 
Bear said:
Religion is completely central to the issues in Bahrain, though. The protests in the other countries you listed are largely motivated by economic concerns, and Bahrain doesn't have those problems.
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Dude, it's not just economic concerns. That diminishes the issue so much. On top of extreme poverty, they were constantly censored, anyone who spoke out were quickly found, tortured and killed. These people want basic rights that we as human beings have, not just wealth and prosperity. They want to choose their leaders, they want to have freedom of speech, they want to have the right to express themselves, anyone who even dared question the legitimacy of these tyrants were swiftly put down. They're treated as animals, you have no idea how much they're suppressed.

Bear said:
People are protesting there because of blatant pro-Sunni corruption within the government. They have a government actively trying to undermine the majority religion, and considering they do things like granting Sunnis automatic citizenship to dilute the Shiite majority, religious discrimination is at the heart of the issue. Unlike the protests in other countries, there is a lot of bad blood between the two groups.
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Given what I said above, that's how they're similar. Economic concerns also come into play as well. Hell, the Khalifa monarchy owns 28 of the 30 islands which no one can set foot on. Out of the 65,000 jobs created in 2010, around 53, 500 of them went to foreign nationals given automatic citizenship (don't ask for the link, read it in a news article). That's not economic concerns too?
 
From twitter:

Opposition societies are now asking people to have sit-ins on rooftops while waving the Bahraini flags.
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Found a video of Pearl Square demolition by the government. It's funny that they're calling it an "upgrade operation". Sorry but it's in Arabic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjL7ssHxl5M

Edit:

Regarding the video, if you pay attention at 00:18, the bulldozer to the right of the structure actually got crushed in the process (not shown in the video). I've seen a picture earlier but can't find it right now.
 
shinobi602 said:
Dude, it's not just economic concerns. That diminishes the issue so much. On top of extreme poverty, they were constantly censored, anyone who spoke out were quickly found, tortured and killed. These people want basic rights that we as human beings have, not just wealth and prosperity. They want to choose their leaders, they want to have freedom of speech, they want to have the right to express themselves, anyone who even dared question the legitimacy of these tyrants were swiftly put down. They're treated as animals, you have no idea how much they're suppressed.



Given what I said above, that's how they're similar. Economic concerns also come into play as well. Hell, the Khalifa monarchy owns 28 of the 30 islands which no one can set foot on. Out of the 65,000 jobs created in 2010, around 53, 500 of them went to foreign nationals given automatic citizenship (don't ask for the link, read it in a news article). That's not economic concerns too?
Click to expand...

I have issues with what you've said here. I personally know a good amount of Syrians and Egyptians co-workers that have been here for quite a long time, some for over ten years, and they don't have a Bahraini citizenship. I have major doubts that a lot of people get automatic citizenship.

The law in Bahrain is that you'd need be here for 15 years if you are a non-Bahraini Arab to get citizenship, last time I checked.

As for the poverty issue, I don't see how anyone can compare poverty levels in Bahrain to what one can find in Egypt, Tunisia or Libya. The Bahraini people are given free housing. Sure, it may take years for the paper work to get done, and there is a really long line too. But, you can't compare their situation to Egyptians that don't have money for their daily bread.
 
Darackutny said:
I have issues with what you've said here. I personally know a good amount of Syrians and Egyptians co-workers that have been here for quite a long time, some for over ten years, and they don't have a Bahraini citizenship. I have major doubts that a lot of people get automatic citizenship.

The law in Bahrain is that you'd need be here for 15 years if you are a non-Bahraini Arab to get citizenship, last time I checked.

As for the poverty issue, I don't see how anyone can compare poverty levels in Bahrain to what one can find in Egypt, Tunisia or Libya. The Bahraini people are given free housing. Sure, it may take years for the paper work to get done, and there is a really long line too. But, you can't compare their situation to Egyptians that don't have money for their daily bread.
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I didn't say they're directly the same. I said they have economic concerns as well. The citizenship issue you can look up and read about. Just because you know some of them doesn't mean it doesn't happen on a wide scale though.
 
shinobi602 said:
Dude, it's not just economic concerns. That diminishes the issue so much. On top of extreme poverty, they were constantly censored, anyone who spoke out were quickly found, tortured and killed. These people want basic rights that we as human beings have, not just wealth and prosperity. They want to choose their leaders, they want to have freedom of speech, they want to have the right to express themselves, anyone who even dared question the legitimacy of these tyrants were swiftly put down. They're treated as animals, you have no idea how much they're suppressed.
Click to expand...

I'm Middle Eastern myself, and people there have very different perceptions and expectations when it comes to rights. The lack of open dialogue and the harsh suppression of dissent is, unfortunately, business as usual in many of the countries there. In most cases, economic concerns were the heart of the issue, and people want freedom of speech and democracy because their governments can't run the country well and and they haven't been able to do about that.

Granted, Libya is an exceptional case since they were under Gadaffi, but in the remaining countries the fact that people can't afford basic necessities was a core issue. Generally, if people feel like the government is acting in their interest and can provide them with a decent living (look at Saudi Arabia), they won't complain about their rights. I lived there for several years and it can be staggering how little people give a shit.

shinobi602 said:
Given what I said above, that's how they're similar. Economic concerns also come into play as well. Hell, the Khalifa monarchy owns 28 of the 30 islands which no one can set foot on. Out of the 65,000 jobs created in 2010, around 53, 500 of them went to foreign nationals given automatic citizenship (don't ask for the link, read it in a news article). That's not economic concerns too?
Click to expand...

Not in the same way as the other countries there. Bahrain is a pretty wealthy country and the quality of life is high. The country is safe, people can afford to send their kids to school and they don't have to worry about putting food on the table. That's nothing like Tunisia or Egypt. The "economic concerns" you listed are prime examples of the religious favouritism in the country. The Khalifa leadership, and the remaining upper class, are a rich class of Sunnis taking much more than their fair share, and the foreign nationals were granted automatic citizenship because they are Sunni and the government wants more supporters. Even regarding their economic issues, long-running sectarian disputes are at the heart of the problem. They aren't protesting because of economic concerns the same way Tunisians did.
 
Bear said:
I'm Middle Eastern myself, and people there have very different perceptions and expectations when it comes to rights. The lack of open dialogue and the harsh suppression of dissent is, unfortunately, business as usual in many of the countries there. In most cases, economic concerns were the heart of the issue, and people want freedom of speech and democracy because their governments can't run the country well and and they haven't been able to do about that.

Granted, Libya is an exceptional case since they were under Gadaffi, but in the remaining countries the fact that people can't afford basic necessities was a core issue. Generally, if people feel like the government is acting in their interest and can provide them with a decent living (look at Saudi Arabia), they won't complain about their rights. I lived there for several years and it can be staggering how little people give a shit.
Click to expand...

I'm Middle Eastern as well, and I agree that people are extremely passive when it comes to human rights there. However, with the recent turn of events, I strongly, strongly feel they are really waking up. Yes, economic stability is a huge factor and always will be, but that will still never replace fundamental rights that every human being possesses.


Bear said:
Not in the same way as the other countries there. Bahrain is a pretty wealthy country and the quality of life is high. The country is safe, people can afford to send their kids to school and they don't have to worry about putting food on the table. That's nothing like Tunisia or Egypt. The "economic concerns" you listed are prime examples of the religious favouritism in the country. The Khalifa leadership, and the remaining upper class, are a rich class of Sunnis taking much more than their fair share, and the foreign nationals were granted automatic citizenship because they are Sunni and the government wants more supporters. Even regarding their economic issues, long-running sectarian disputes are at the heart of the problem. They aren't protesting because of economic concerns the same way Tunisians did.
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Yes, I know. I was merely saying there are some economic concerns as well, and they stem from the issues you pointed out. I did also add that they weren't in the same league as the other nations. However these concerns are not the main factors.
 
Prine said:
The people have their voice, the government has tanks. Voice vs Tanks.... and you wonder why they want change??

Dicks.
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The army is generally made up of the people too. Which is generally why when there's a serious revolution, at least part of the army joins.
 
shinobi602 said:
I'm Middle Eastern as well, and I agree that people are extremely passive when it comes to human rights there. However, with the recent turn of events, I strongly, strongly feel they are really waking up. Yes, economic stability is a huge factor and always will be, but that will still never replace fundamental rights that every human being possesses.
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Yeah, I agree, things are changing quite a lot. With recent events it seems like people there are realizing the importance of rights, but it took a lot of government dissatisfaction to get people to that point. They had strong motivations to expand their rights so that they can actually do something about government incompetence.

Libya's exceptionally bloody leadership and Bahrain's religious discrimination of the majority of the population separate them from the the pack in that regard.

EDIT: Noticed an annoying typo
 
Slavik81 said:
The army is generally made up of the people too. Which is generally why when there's a serious revolution, at least part of the army joins.
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Except that in Bahrain's case the army isn't made of the people, but by foreign merc.
 
Truly sickening.

Dear brothers/sisters,
Another criminal act is going on at this moment in Salmaniya medical hospital in bahrain. The army is taking all the admitted injured citizens in the surgical wards one by one by ambulances to BDF( Bahrain defense force) hospital. They are taking their files/ notes away from the wards, deleting ......all the informations from the computers. They have given warnings to the expats nurses if they opened their mouth talking about this issue.

They have locked one of the accesses to the lifts to that building leading to the surgical/ orthopedic wards. The only access to the building is guarded by the armed personnels, not letting any access except after thorough check. The atmosphere in the hospital is frightening and unsecured as the doctors and nurses are telling me.

We all think that tomorrow some NGO's are coming to visit the Salmaniya hospital to see the injured citizens. For this reason they are hiding all the evidences, by transferring the patients to BDF hospital and hiding/ or eradicating all their notes.

Please call all the NGOs let them know about this issue. Likely that the Red crescent from Kuwait or elsewhere or red cross are coming. We are sure that they will not let any honest/ noble person join these people.
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http://www.facebook.com/OFFICAILFEB14MEDIA

Also another twitter page with updates
http://twitter.com/q8prosth
 
I can't get in touch with my friends working at Salmaniya and other clinics in Bahrain. Phones keep ringing but no one picks up. I hope they're safe.
 
shinobi602 said:
I didn't say they're directly the same. I said they have economic concerns as well. The citizenship issue you can look up and read about. Just because you know some of them doesn't mean it doesn't happen on a wide scale though.
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I don't need to look up or read anything. I've lived here for long enough to know how the country works. How long have you been in Bahrain for?
 
Was this posted? sorry if old.

The Telegraph: Bahrain police carry out drive-by shooting.

In total a convoy of eleven police 4x4s can be seen making their way through what appears to be a backstreet of the capital. Two people at the side of the road are then apparently shot by police gunmen standing up in the second and third vehicles.

The footage was posted on the video-sharing site LiveLeak on March 16 and claims that the incident occurred the same day.
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In other news, UAE forces entered Bahrain today and there is talk of forces coming from Qatar later.

And it seems that some Algerian hacking group hacked the Bahraini Parliament website:
http://www.nuwab.gov.bh/

Funeral of Ahmed Abdulla, Daih today:

13005428185.jpg


13005440333.jpg


Burial procession of Ahmed AlFarhan in Sitra today:

13004699183.jpg


13004704523.jpg
 
Yup. Pretty big problem with the Sufis and the radical Islamists in Pakistan.
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Sufis aren't a group in that kind of way. There are some people who call themselves Sufis who are into music and some who are really against it. Sheikh Nuh Ha Mim Keller, the greatest living Sheikh of the Shadhili Tariqa (a Sufi lodge) declares that all music (with a few exceptions) is haraam (impermissible). His mureeds (students) don't watch television, use computers other than when necessary and are very very orthodox.

This goes for most of the mainstream Tariqas. Sufism has however now become a word used by the opponents of such things to link individuals like Sheikh Nuh and others of his ilk, to the practices of 'Sufis' in the fringe, usually in the subcontinent. Many of the great scholars of fiqh and aqidah practiced tasawuf and were and are very much mainstream Muslim orthodoxy. Individuals like Imam Nawawi, Imam Ghazzali and even Sheikh Ibn Tamiyya were either practised tasawuf or expressed praise for it.

The idea that Sufis are all some pro-European dancing hippies is too simplistic to work. Many of the great revivalists of the religion were Sufis, individuals like Sheikh Ahmad Sirhindi. This is not to mention the many warriors and martyrs amongst their ranks.
 
Bahrain Foreign Minister Khalid Al-Khalifa responeds to CBS Journalist Toula Vlahou on being attcked by police.

http://www.twitvid.com/HFNC7

She reported this incident earlier and I posted a link to it before in this thread. Link to story again: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503543_162-20044298-503543.html

There are reports of multiple arrests over the past week. 15 deaths since February 14th (8 new ones this month). An official Kuwaiti medical aid team was refused entry.

Human Rights Watch:Bahrain, New Arrests Target Doctors, Rights Activists

"Nighttime raids by masked men accompanied by uniformed security personnel have become disturbingly familiar in Bahrain," said Joe Stork, deputy Middle East director at Human Rights Watch. "The state is now unabashedly terrorizing anyone including doctors who dared to support pro-democracy protesters during the past several weeks."
Click to expand...
 
Darackutny said:
I have issues with what you've said here. I personally know a good amount of Syrians and Egyptians co-workers that have been here for quite a long time, some for over ten years, and they don't have a Bahraini citizenship. I have major doubts that a lot of people get automatic citizenship.

The law in Bahrain is that you'd need be here for 15 years if you are a non-Bahraini Arab to get citizenship, last time I checked.

As for the poverty issue, I don't see how anyone can compare poverty levels in Bahrain to what one can find in Egypt, Tunisia or Libya. The Bahraini people are given free housing. Sure, it may take years for the paper work to get done, and there is a really long line too. But, you can't compare their situation to Egyptians that don't have money for their daily bread.
Click to expand...


I'd like to know what the views of those demanding "freedom" are towards foreign workers from south asian countries like Pakistan, India and Bangladesh. I don't think you can ever become a citizen if you're not an Arab, is that correct?
 
Non-Pashtuns in Pakistan belong to the Barelvi movement, which implements many of the practices of Sufism. The Taliban calls it hearsay.

What really ignited the fuse was the bombing of the Lahore’s Data Darbar Shrine.
 
Very graphic photo album showing some of the injuries in Bahrain. (facebook link)

http://www.fidh.org/FIDH-Deputy-Secretary-General-abused-by-the

The International Federation for Human Rights (FIDH) is extremely worried at the security condition of its deputy Secretary General, Nabeel Rajab, President of the Bahrain Center for Human Rights.
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For more than one hour, the police kept him in the car and started to insult him and to force him to praise the Bahraini highest authorities, by saying « Long live the Prime Minister, I love the Prime Minister ». As he refused to obey the orders, Rajab was insulted once more and kicked in the face by one of the policemen, while another one was threatening to rape him.

After more than one hour of physical and psychological abuse, Nabeel Rajab was transferred to another car, taken to some premices belonging to the Ministry of Interior for interrogation.
There, he was told by an officer that the police were following what he was saying on Twitter and troublemakers like him should leave the country.
He was finally sent back home at 4 am.
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yellow submarine said:
I'd like to know what the views of those demanding "freedom" are towards foreign workers from south asian countries like Pakistan, India and Bangladesh. I don't think you can ever become a citizen if you're not an Arab, is that correct?
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Eh? There are South Asians in both the police and the military forces in Bahrain. I personally know a couple of guys who are of Indian roots and are Bahraini.
 
Rad Agast said:
Bahrain Foreign Minister Khalid Al-Khalifa responeds to CBS Journalist Toula Vlahou on being attcked by police.

http://www.twitvid.com/HFNC7

She reported this incident earlier and I posted a link to it before in this thread. Link to story again: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503543_162-20044298-503543.html
Click to expand...
this should be investigated

this should be investigated

this should be investigated

this should be investigated

this should be investigated

this should be investigated

this should be investigated
 
"investigated" eh? yeah I know, it's pretty funny seeing how she actually contacted the U.S. Embassy in Bahrain who in turn contacted the Bahraini security police:

Vlahou contacted the American Embassy and CBS. After several calls, American Embassy contacted the Bahraini security police, and the commander of the riot police and explained the situation and asked them to call off the police. After about 20 minutes the police left the house.
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You would thing think the Foreign Minister would have heard some thing about it seeing how it involved the U.S. Embassy and a U.S. citizen.

Never mind that, guess what I just found looking up "Bahrain minister of interior"?

Bahrain’s Ministry of Interior to Hire 20,000 New Staff

Edit:
thing/think ;/
 
Al-Wefaq also announced on its Facebook page that a Shiite woman, Bahiya al-Aradi, was pronounced dead on Monday after being shot in the head.

Aradi, 51, went missing on Wednesday evening, and a car that she drove was found the day after in al-Qadam village, west of Manama, with bloodstains on the driver's seat, Al-Wefaq said.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/af...cId=CNG.a807bd69f3debaa7a6b4ca2383f9500b.1161
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Why would anyone shoot a 51 year old lady? =(

Candle light vigil in Sitra, which was in defiance of the curfew, that took place tonight.

2cusq.jpg
 
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