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US Ally Bahrain murdering peaceful protesters

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Samven said:
There are huge differences between Muslims and shias
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Wow. I only just saw that he made a distinction between Muslims and Shia. Not Sunnah and Shia.

You know what happens when you call another Muslim a kafir and it isn't true right?
 
OttomanScribe said:
Wow. I only just saw that he made a distinction between Muslims and Shia. Not Sunnah and Shia.

You know what happens when you call another Muslim a kafir and it isn't true right?
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Did I ever call shia kafirs?
 
OttomanScribe said:
Wow. I only just saw that he made a distinction between Muslims and Shia. Not Sunnah and Shia.

You know what happens when you call another Muslim a kafir and it isn't true right?
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Does he have to send his badge, ID card and fridge magnet back?

Is 'Kafir / Kuffar' predominantly used as a derogatory term? It always comes across that way in context.
 
SmokyDave said:
Does he have to send his badge, ID card and fridge magnet back?

Is 'Kafir / Kuffar' predominantly used as a derogatory term? It always comes across that way in context.
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It is primarily used as that. Technically though it just means someone who's not 'a person of the book' that is muslim, christian, or jewish.

Though since samven said shias aren't muslim (and they sure aren't christian or jewish) I'm not sure how the technical definition doesn't apply.

Here's another example of how vicious the interplay is between Sunnis and Shias.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110315105836AAfm4Qq

It's incredibly ridiculous and it's a big part of what's happening in Bahrain right now. There are a *ton* of people in the Arab Sunni world that are convinced of the idea that:
"All I know is that they are not the Muslims' brothers in faith, and they are not brothers in humanity. "

and

"Shias and Sufis are knowingly denying and refusing to acceept the truth; the righteous way, so in my eyes, they're far worse."

And using that kind of shit and adding in fear-mongering about Iran allows them to justify whatever the Al-Khalifa regime does to brutally repress the Bahraini people.
 
radioheadrule83 said:
This dickhead needs to resign. I'm writing to my MP.
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The EU foreign minister (some british baroness) was the only one who's ministry was rated as "Failed" by the EU itself.
 
Azih said:
It is primarily used as that. Technically though it just means someone who's not 'a person of the book' that is muslim, christian, or jewish.

Though since samven said shias aren't muslim (and they sure aren't christian or jewish) I'm not sure how the technical definition doesn't apply.

Here's another example of how vicious the interplay is between Sunnis and Shias.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110315105836AAfm4Qq

It's incredibly ridiculous and it's a big part of what's happening in Bahrain right now. There are a *ton* of people in the Arab Sunni world that are convinced of the idea that:
"All I know is that they are not the Muslims' brothers in faith, and they are not brothers in humanity. "

and

"Shias and Sufis are knowingly denying and refusing to acceept the truth; the righteous way, so in my eyes, they're far worse."

And using that kind of shit and adding in fear-mongering about Iran allows them to justify whatever the Al-Khalifa regime does to brutally repress the Bahraini people.
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are you a shia??
 
samven582 said:
just answer the question because it serious does
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How does it? Seriously in what possible way does it matter? Would my being Shia make what I say wrong as opposed to if I was Sunni? The reverse? What if I'm an not muslim at all? What then? Respond to what I'm saying and not who you think I am for God's sake.
 
I don't see what sect/religion a person is has to do with all this. Can't people just look at the situation from a humanitarian point of view?

Any ways, this might have been posted before. Not sure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSGQ8n7L9Dw An example of the Bahraini government propaganda. (Arabic with English subtitles).

As for the "Iran threat" The Guardian: WikiLeaks cables show no evidence of Iran's hand in Bahrain unrest

The United States has repeatedly dismissed claims by the Bahraini government that Shia Muslim unrest in the Gulf island state is backed by Iran.

US diplomatic cables released by WikiLeaks show that the accusation made by the Manama government – which is facing street protests demanding political reforms from an opposition inspired by the Egyptian and Tunisian uprisings – is not backed by hard evidence.

"Each time this claim is raised, we ask the GOB (government of Bahrain) to share its evidence," the US embassy reported in a secret dispatch in August 2008. "To date, we have seen no convincing evidence of Iranian weapons or government money here since at least the mid-1990s ... If the GOB had convincing evidence of more recent Iranian subversion, it would quickly share it with us."
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As to the recent EU foreign policy adviser Robert Cooper comments, I recommend watching The Daily Show (March 22nd 2011 episode). <3 John Stewart.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/tue-march-22-2011-t-j--english

Edit:

Actually, the episode I wanted to reference is the March 21st one.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/mon-march-21-2011-sarah-vowell

I got a good laugh watching this "police" guy (from Bahrain)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qx65QBngpuI
 
shinobi602 said:
I feel a bloodbath coming on tomorrow =(
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Seeing how they quickly cracked down on the small protest today in Manama and how the government spread out riot/police forces all over the entrances in the capital (according to reports on twitter). I really hope the protesters don't push too hard tomorrow. They had more deaths in March than February (and a lot more injured) already.

Maybe it's time for them to calm down a bit till things stabilize in other regions (Libya, Yemen, Syria). I can't really blame them though. The government has been handling the situation in a very idiotic way which is only leading to more rage.


Edit:

Latest Amnesty International report on the violence in Bahrain

Since protests started on 14 February, at least 12 protesters have been killed and another four have been found dead after they went missing in circumstances that are as yet unclear. It has been reported also that three foreign migrant workers were killed, apparently by persons other than the security forces, and that at least three policemen officers also died in clashes with protesters. Hundreds others have been injured and access to hospitals and health centres has been blocked.
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Following the attacks on 16 March, at least 10 opposition activists and six medical doctors were arrested. Two of the 15 detainees were released within hours of their arrest but the whereabouts of the 14 others are currently unknown. The Bahraini authorities have not said where they are being held or given them access to their families or lawyers, nor have they disclosed the legal basis for their arrest other than saying they are accused of calling for the downfall of the government, inciting violence and acting as agents of a foreign power – an implicit reference to Iran.

These accusations are denied by the detainees’ families. At least eight of the opposition activists are reported to have been arrested by a joint force of Bahraini and Saudi Arabian security forces who did not produce arrest warrants. Amnesty International considers them to be prisoners of conscience; four were only recently released after several months in detention during which some alleged that they were tortured or otherwise ill-treated.
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Rad Agast said:
Seeing how they quickly cracked down on the small protest today in Manama and how the government spread out riot/police forces all over the entrances in the capital (according to reports on twitter). I really hope the protesters don't push too hard tomorrow. They had more deaths in March than February (and a lot more injured) already.

Maybe it's time for them to calm down a bit till things stabilize in other regions (Libya, Yemen, Syria). I can't really blame them though. The government has been handling the situation in a very idiotic way which is only leading to more rage.
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I don't think that's a good idea. You don't let an opportunity fly you by. It's now or never.

The longer they wait or sit back until things stabilize elsewhere, the Saudi and Bahraini gestapo and military thugs will be rounding up people from their houses, torturing people, kidnapping during this lull, etc etc. (Not that that isn't happening now...)
 
shinobi602 said:
I don't think that's a good idea. You don't let an opportunity fly you by. It's now or never.

The longer they wait or sit back until things stabilize elsewhere, the Saudi and Bahraini gestapo and military thugs will be rounding up people from their houses, torturing people, kidnapping during this lull, etc etc. (Not that that isn't happening now...)
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Yep, check my late edit above your post. It's very depressing either way.

Edit:

News papers owned by members of the ruling family already fired reporters who made their own personal views public too (I read a couple of reports on that today). Not to mention reading twitter posts reporting arrests every now and then each day.
 
Samven said:
Did I ever call shia kafirs?
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I wonder what else you meant to imply by not including them in the Muslim camp? I am of ahlul-Sunnah btw.

SmokyDave said:
Does he have to send his badge, ID card and fridge magnet back?

Is 'Kafir / Kuffar' predominantly used as a derogatory term? It always comes across that way in context.
Click to expand...

I am referring to this hadith:

It is reported on the authority of Ibn `Umar that the Prophet (may peace and blessings be upon him) said: Any person who calls his brother: O Unbeliever! (then the truth of this label) would return to one of them. If it is true, (then it is) as he asserted, (but if it is not true), then it returns to him (and thus the person who made the accusation is an Unbeliever). [Muslim]

Kafir is the singular, Khufar is the plural. The term has a complex linguistic meaning in Arabic, it is generally understood to mean 'One who denies'. It is translated as anything from Infidel to non-believer to anyonenotahlul'Qitab lol. Infidel doesn't work, as the implications in it are Christian and there is a lot of weighting to it. In the sense that being Muslim is good, and not being Muslim is bad, then one could view it as 'derogatory', but I don't think that is its primary usage.

Lets put it this way, though in a legal sense, a lot of my friends are not Muslim, I would never in a million years dream of calling them a Kafir, or referring to them as such. I don't know their hearts, and it could be true of me and not of them.
 
At least one death today on the protesters' side. Government forces closed off access to all medical centers and there are reports of one center being set on fire by the "security forces" can't confirm the last bit yet.
 
El Sloth, thanks for your contribution to this issue. Here is a good link containing information which debunks the stuff you linked to. If you can't understand Arabic then please link to the entry you'd like some clarification on and I'll try to translate (don't have a lot of free time to do them all). Some entries do have English translation too.

http://www.freewebtown.com/mojahd91/index.html

Sitra, Bahrain yesterday:

199234_134785913260439_129105763828454_230453_5491874_n.jpg


Youth demonstrators used a fierce sandstorm which hit Bahrain yesterday as cover to try and gather at the site of what used to be Lulu/Pearl Roundabout but couldn't make it there. The death of a 71 years old male was reported by Al Wifaq society (suffocation by tear gas) but the government reports it as a death by natural causes.
 
This is why I said- and people got mad at me before for it- that our mission in Libya is not a humanitarian one. Just good ol' fashioned Western imperialism. Hate away, capitalist-GAF.
 
Funeral of Isa Mohammed in Sitra today. If I'm not mistaken, he's the 71 years old who died yesterday.

image00010np.jpg


image00007v.jpg


Edit:

Yesterday in Karzakan, at the start you can hear a protester shouting "Death to Al Khalifa and to Al Saud (Saudi ruling family)". Watch closely at 1:40 - 1:50 for the guy in civilian clothes and the shotgun in his hand. At roughly 2:20 you hear shouts against the government.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lerjtyNLXIo
 
Reuters: Bahrain opposition says 250 detained, 44 missing

military prosecutors banned media from reporting about suspects and cases linked to the martial law, state news agency BNA reported on Monday.
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"We have around 250 confirmed arrested and 44 who are missing, though that number fluctuates when people reappear after hiding from police," said Mattar, a parliamentarian before Wefaq resigned over the use of force against protesters.

"Just today and yesterday, we got calls from 35 families saying they lost contact with their relatives when they passed through a checkpoint," Mattar said. "We don't know what's happened to them, authorities won't say. In these conditions, we actually have to hope they were arrested."

Bahraini officials were not immediately available to comment on Wefaq's estimated number of those missing or arrested.
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A few of those who went missing turned up dead last week.
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Sorry for the bump but didn't want to start a new thread.

Al Jazeera English: Bahrain's hospital of ghosts.


Salmaniya Medical Complex, once one of the most renowned medical facilities in the Gulf and a jewel in the crown of Bahrain's public healthcare system, has been transformed into a virtual ghost town.

Its gates and front entrance are barricaded with checkpoints and masked military officers, armed with rifles. Its emergency room, once the busiest in the country, is empty.

And, according to eyewitness reports collected by Human Rights Watch, hospital staff say security and military forces have sought out and threatened, beaten and detained patients with protest-related injuries.

These patients are then systematically segregated from the rest of the patient population and transferred to the sixth floor, where they are virtually inaccessible to anyone, including family.

"There are more military officers in the hospital than patients," says Faraz Sanei, a Human Rights Watch observer who has recently been inside Salmaniya. "It is not a normal environment or safe haven for patients. Patients and staff have told us there's a security lockdown and doctors from there are very frightened to speak.

"The fact that it's empty means there's not much of an inflow of patients going in. People don't want to go there because they're afraid," he adds.
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Military forces are still out on the streets. Especially at the smaller villages/towns in Bahrain and the violence continues.
 
Disgusting...Bahraini police brutally beating protesters

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106347.jpg

Meanwhile, the Human Rights Watch (HRW) said that government forces are targeting patients shot with rubber bullets, tear gas and live ammunition during anti-government protests and are denying them crucial medical care.

“There is absolutely no justification for arresting someone solely because the person might have been wounded in a protest-related incident,” said Joe Stork, Middle East deputy director at HRW, in a statement.

“It is against every tenet of humanity to deprive patients of critical and sometimes life-saving medical treatment, causing them grave suffering and perhaps irreparable harm,” he said.
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Obama: "Some nations may be able to turn a blind eye to atrocities in other countries. The United States of America is different."

*ba-dum-tish*
 
Zenith said:
Obama: "Some nations may be able to turn a blind eye to atrocities in other countries. The United States of America is different."

*ba-dum-tish*
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Yeah it sucks. But we are over committed as is. People are angry over the intervention in Libya . . . but there is no way the USA can intervene in Bahrain, Syria, Libya, Yemen, Iran, etc. :-(
 
Zenith said:
Obama: "Some nations may be able to turn a blind eye to atrocities in other countries. The United States of America is different."

*ba-dum-tish*
Click to expand...

The US is more like a spider turning many blind eyes to many nations.
 
speculawyer said:
Yeah it sucks. But we are over committed as is. People are angry over the intervention in Libya . . . but there is no way the USA can intervene in Bahrain, Syria, Libya, Yemen, Iran, etc. :-(
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This is true, because they're our pals.
 
SolKane said:
The US is more like a spider turning many blind eyes to many nations.
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Or maybe we are just humans with two eyes and three wars already.

shinobi602 said:
This is true, because they're our pals.
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Like so many other places, we worked with the dictator in Yemen because he was willing to work with us and crack down on AQ.

Basically, he let us bomb all wanted. Now that stopped after the wiki-leaks exposed it. We trained his people and told him who to go after . . . but they didn't do it. And now those trained troops are basically being used against the dictator's political foes. So at this point, I think our support for Yemen's government has pretty much dropped to nothing. They are not our pals anymore.

But the situation sucks . . . that place is going to turn into another Afghanistan as the oil and water run out. Anyone have any good policy suggestions? I don't think there are any.
 
speculawyer said:
Yeah it sucks. But we are over committed as is. People are angry over the intervention in Libya . . . but there is no way the USA can intervene in Bahrain, Syria, Libya, Yemen, Iran, etc. :-(
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It already is "intervening" in the case of its allies. Namely, by shoring up the regimes that commit these abuses. Nobody is calling for boots on the ground or no fly zones. The US can simply do what's it has reportedly done in Yemen: withhold its billion dollar aid package and arms assistance packages. I mean, it's only following US domestic law. US weapons are not to be used for human rights violations.

A TomDispatch analysis of defence department documents indicates that, since the 1990s, the United States has transferred large quantities of military matériel, ranging from trucks and aircraft to machine-gun parts and millions of rounds of live ammunition, to Bahrain's security forces. The Defence Security Cooperation Agency did not respond to repeated requests for information and clarification.

According to data from the Defence Security Cooperation Agency, the branch of the government that coordinates sales and transfers of military equipment to allies, the US has sent Bahrain dozens of "excess" American tanks, armoured personnel carriers, and helicopter gunships.

The US has also given the Bahrain defence force thousands of .38 calibre pistols and millions of rounds of ammunition, from large-calibre cannon shells to bullets for handguns.

To take one example, the US supplied Bahrain with enough .50 calibre rounds – used in sniper rifles and machine guns – to kill every Bahraini in the kingdom four times over.

In addition to all these gifts of weaponry, ammunition, and fighting vehicles, the Pentagon in coordination with the state department oversaw Bahrain's purchase of more than $386 million in defence items and services from 2007 to 2009, the last three years on record.

These deals included the purchase of a wide range of items from vehicles to weapons systems. Just this past summer, to cite one example, the Pentagon announced a multimillion-dollar contract with Sikorsky Aircraft to customise nine Black Hawk helicopters for Bahrain's defence force.
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This requires no boots on the ground or over- commitment of resources, it requires the political will to not do what's outlined above. The reason the US doesnt do this is because it wants a warm relationship with these smaller GCC countries to keep them away from Iran.
 
SmokyDave said:
An awful lot of very graphic pictures of dead children, presumably from recent conflicts. I'm not normally squeamish but it was horrible stuff :(
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:( Argh.

I do not understand why people post such things. I mean I do (as a way to incite action) but I still think it is a disrespect.
 
OttomanScribe said:
:( Argh.

I do not understand why people post such things. I mean I do (as a way to incite action) but I still think it is a disrespect.
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Agreed. Although I see the point and purpose in using graphic or unpleasant imagery to inspire reflection (The Kevin Carter photo of the Sudanese child springs to mind), the sheer volume of images at that link made my brain skip over reflection and head straight for revulsion instead.
 
SmokyDave said:
Agreed. Although I see the point and purpose in using graphic or unpleasant imagery to inspire reflection (The Kevin Carter photo of the Sudanese child springs to mind), the sheer volume of images at that link made my brain skip over reflection and head straight for revulsion instead.
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True indeed.. they desensitise :(
 
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