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US Ambassador to Australia - "Please stop pirating Game of Thrones"
- Thread starter DrSlek
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Infernal Monkey
Member
Pay TV is pretty much a joke here. Three to four times the amount of money per month as America for a tiny fraction of the same content, hours/days later. It never has - and never will be - a widespread thing.
I remember when the original series of Game of Thrones was released on DVD/Blu-ray in Australia (back when the show wasn't available to watch hours later on pay TV), the set cost about $70. It struggled so badly that retailers like JB Hi-Fi and Big W reduced the price by about half that just a few weeks later. Then like magic, it started selling. From there, the price shot back up again, and managed to stay there.
Word spread about just how flippin' good the show was after that. And sure, some people just went ahead and pirated it instead, but DVD sales took off.
Then piracy became a huge thing when season 2 started airing in America, because well, holy shit, people knew about the show. When the boxset of season 2 launched a few months ago, it was treated like a massive event at retailers. We even got like three different versions of the Blu-ray release with various bits of useless trinket junk in them.
I'm not exactly making any point here, but rather, it's in my opinion that without piracy (and a taster of sensible pricing in Australia which rarely ever happens), DVD/Blu-ray sales of Game of Thrones would be in the shit.
So, hey, HBO's still making fuckloads of money from us somewhere down the line.
I remember when the original series of Game of Thrones was released on DVD/Blu-ray in Australia (back when the show wasn't available to watch hours later on pay TV), the set cost about $70. It struggled so badly that retailers like JB Hi-Fi and Big W reduced the price by about half that just a few weeks later. Then like magic, it started selling. From there, the price shot back up again, and managed to stay there.
Word spread about just how flippin' good the show was after that. And sure, some people just went ahead and pirated it instead, but DVD sales took off.
Then piracy became a huge thing when season 2 started airing in America, because well, holy shit, people knew about the show. When the boxset of season 2 launched a few months ago, it was treated like a massive event at retailers. We even got like three different versions of the Blu-ray release with various bits of useless trinket junk in them.
I'm not exactly making any point here, but rather, it's in my opinion that without piracy (and a taster of sensible pricing in Australia which rarely ever happens), DVD/Blu-ray sales of Game of Thrones would be in the shit.
So, hey, HBO's still making fuckloads of money from us somewhere down the line.
Not always, no.
Edit: You should really read and think about all the posts that have been addressed to you in the last page that you seem to have ignored or cherry picked from.
True, but piracy ain't like that.
You are considering there is a limited amount of items, owned by someone, and that obtaining one without paying will result in a loss.
Piracy is sharing copies that have no values attached to them. No one is affected by their redistribution.
Grand Funk Carwash
Banned
So depriving someone the right to control how their work is distributed and to who isn't theft?
It's unfortunate that none of the free to air channels in Australia picked it up ( or maybe they did but sold it on as they thought it would be too niche?). Anyway it's not like it can't be done as shows like Carnivale, Six Feet Under and The Sopranos which I believe we're by HBO were screened in Australia on free to air.
seems like working for the US entertainment industry is the ambassadors most important job
US ambassadors everywhere are from politely asking to threating hellfire countries to change their laws in matters important to the US entertainment industry
fuck them
US ambassadors everywhere are from politely asking to threating hellfire countries to change their laws in matters important to the US entertainment industry
fuck them
No. And anyway, piracy isn't a person committing such a crime.
No. It isn't. Words have meanings for a reason.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theft
There are lots of good references at the bottom of the page you can use if you want.
Not any more. Foxtel has exclusive rights to all HBO shows now, which is why SBS can't show Boardwalk Empire any more.
Grand Funk Carwash
Banned
You can buy a the copyright for something (as HBO did for ASOIaF). I would assume that would come under 'property'. Depriving them of the right to exercise control over the distribution of Game of Thrones sounds a lot like theft to me.
Depriving them of a right is not theft.
Grand Funk Carwash
Banned
So depriving someone of property is theft but depriving someone of the right to copy (which is property and can be traded to another party) is not theft.
I bet you're doing more than watching Game of Thrones with that service! Is that internet too? Because my internet is $100 a month already, if I had internet and 'cable' (which would actually be satellite) and Showtime (the channel that broadcasts GoT) that would put it up to $172 a month.
Yes. It's not that complicated. Producing counterfeit goods is not theft.
Also, your sentence doesn't make much sense. Depriving someone of the right to copy? Can you clarify that?
A
A More Normal Bird
Unconfirmed Member
You and other posters in this thread don't seem to understand that paying for cable/satellite TV is nowhere near as prevalent in Australia as it is in the US (<30% usage rate). Free to air television is king; there is literally a handful of channels which all air nationwide. In the case of cable, the infrastructure often isn't even present. The pricing structures are less flexible because Pay TV in general is viewed as more of a luxury product and people aren't bundling it with things like internet. Is your $135 a month package the bare minimum you could be paying for access to the regular gamut of domestic TV plus GoT?
Frankie Williamson
Member
Funny thing is, the HBO programming president seems pretty ok with the piracy.
Grand Funk Carwash
Banned
Counterfeit goods do not carry the same value as the original. An illegal copy of an episode of GoT is indistinguishable from an authentic one - they are of equal value. Counterfeit money is worthless.
If HBO has paid for exclusive rights to the distribution of GoT and you copy it for all your friends you are depriving HBO of something they paid for (the right to control the distribution of GoT). Copyright only has value as long as the holder is the only one who can copy the work. You've argued its not theft because you haven't deprived them of anything. Well you have.
More generally, TV in Australia is in an appalling state of affairs (as evidenced by Ch10 being broke and Ch9 and Ch7 both fighting over a shrinking market). Foxtel/Austar has a finite lifespan that can be counted in single digit years (at least with their current subscription model) and 'FreeTV' has amounted to nothing more than non-HD digital channels running 15 year-old syndicated sitcoms (ABC excepted - they've done a wonderful job with ABC24 and ABC Kids) and the dodgy shows the channels get as part of premier packages (you know, like if Ch7 wants to show the latest and greatest Big Bang Theory (or whatever) then they also have to take these other, crappy shows).
It's a joke. The day the NBN was installed in my house was the day I finalised all my trials with VPN, Netflix and Hulu and we've never looked back (partly because American ads are so novel and cute). If Netflix and Hulu was more readily available to Australians at large (like via an app on all recent Smart TVs), that'd just about be the end of Foxtel.
As for this unfortunate, circular semantic argument, there is a raft of literature out there about it.
Try this short one from the NYTimes:
If counterfeit money was worthless, people wouldn't make it and stores wouldn't accept it. If GoT is inherently valuable, people would pay for it.
Yes, you may have deprived the copyright holder of something. That does not mean your action is theft. Your argument is devolving again.\
Edit: Look, whether you like it or not, illegal copying is not theft. You will have to get used to that or go through life getting angry every time someone points it out.
Grand Funk Carwash
Banned
Stores don't accept counterfeit money.
My argument has always been 'close enough that arguing about definitions is pointless'. I'm not sure why we're arguing anyway - we both seem to think the act is wrong regardless of what you call it.
The reality is that without piracy, no one in this country would have heard about this show. Almost nobody has pay TV, nor have i even met anyone who has bought tv shows off of something like iTunes, though i'm sure they exist in very small numbers.
The DVD sales, however, are super popular. JB Hifi must have sold an absolute shit ton of the season sets, if the amount of in-store emphasis they put on it is anything to go by.
Does it excuse piracy? Well no, not really. Still doesn't change the fact that piracy is working in HBO's favor in this country.
The DVD sales, however, are super popular. JB Hifi must have sold an absolute shit ton of the season sets, if the amount of in-store emphasis they put on it is anything to go by.
Does it excuse piracy? Well no, not really. Still doesn't change the fact that piracy is working in HBO's favor in this country.
Burger
Member
Yes they do.
They do, all the time. They try not to, and don't want to, but they do. So it has value. That value may not be state sanctioned, but it is real. Otherwise no one would ever make it.
We are discussing this because you have said people use the 'its not theft' argument to diminish the illegality or moral wrongness of it. You have not even come close to proving that, nor that the acts of theft and copyright infringement are equivalent.
bodyboarder
Member
The delay is just twisting the knife. Either release it at the same time as it airs, or don't bother.
Grand Funk Carwash
Banned
Even if they know its fake?
You know currency only has value because the issuing body has something of actual value backing it. Every dollar in circulation has to have some amount of gold guaranteeing its value. A counterfeit dollar does not have anything of value backing it which makes it worthless. Hey hey we're back to fraud
Never said equivalent. Always said they were near enough to render differences pointless in terms of legitimizing piracy. Theft of a physical item and theft of an idea are the same thing.
D
Deleted member 1235
Unconfirmed Member
because you are making stupid and wrong points and it's irritating, you've also been proved wrong countless times and just change your argument like this
you've just turned the weed smoker into a dealer and acted like it's the same again....
cmon now
your whole attempt to equate copying with stealing is just silly and doesn't shake out in real life. you only need to look at how normal honest people who wouldn't dream of breaking into someones house, stealing their wallet or robbing a bank think nothing of downloading an mp3 or watching porn on whatever streaming site. The two acts are so fucking far apart it's just absurd to even claim that they are equally severe, stop acting like the removing the original bit carries less weight than it does.
Burger
Member
Everyone in the UK spends fake £1 coins all the time, with 3 in every 100 fake.
Nobody looks, nobody cares. Even though passing them on is completely illegal.
SirIgbyCeaser
Banned
I'm sorry HBO, I feel so bad that you make the best quality entertainment and my life is so voided of real interaction with drama, I am also lonely and live in a country where HBO is not available.
I'm sorry. I really am.
I'm sorry. I really am.
Grand Funk Carwash
Banned
Whatever helps you sleep at night buddy.
Grand Funk Carwash
Banned
Doesn't matter if they're in circulation. They have no value. People may think they have value but they don't.
D
Deleted member 1235
Unconfirmed Member
GOD DAMN you're obviously trolling.
weird that you can get stuff with them then...
This is a pretty weak argument since it can be just as well explained with opportunity and the perceived sanction risk.
Grand Funk Carwash
Banned
So there is nothing wrong with taking something you have no right to?...and im the one trolling?
So you expect your government to honour fake currency?
Poetic.Injustice
Member
Why is this the job of the US ambassador? Pathetic stuff.
D
Deleted member 1235
Unconfirmed Member
I don't agree. I don't think anyone presented with the choice of doing one or the other win no consequences would EVER take robbery/theft from a person over making a digital copy illegally. (except for a sociopath). You'd have to be a real shit 'yes I want the stranger on the street to be missing his wallet' vs 'an episode of game of thrones on telly for no money'
Can you honestly tell me the stats would even be close? People taking the hardline 'PIRACY is THEFT' are both wrong by definition and wrong by the seriousness of the events. It's like saying 'well, if you're going to get in a fistfight, might as well just be hitler and murder ALL THE JEWS'
it's stupid.
NO YOU IDIOT NOBODY SAID ANY OF THOSE THINGS. You just think stupid shit and then make up other people opinions to fit your wrong definition of theft so you can feel awesome about being wrong.
I expect the shops to honor fake currency, which they do, because they can't tell the difference. The VALUE of said fake currency is the ability to exchange it for goods and services. If you take it to a bank and tell them it's worth shit. Doesn't stop me buying a bunch of coke n hookers with it now does it?
Burger
Member
I exchanged one for goods and services the other day equal to £1, therefore you are wrong.
They have the same value as a genuine £1 coin. Remember, currency survives on perceived value.
They have a much value as people put on them. That is the nature of value.
Grand Funk Carwash
Banned
They only honour it because they can't tell the difference. That fake money is going to cost someone eventually anyway. That shop is going to take it to the bank and the bank will discover its not authentic meaning that shop is out whatever the value of that money is, or the treasury is going to notify the bank and the bank will be out of pocket. Counterfeit money has no value regardless of how many owners its had.
Dude we pay almost $200 a month for cable TV, Internet, phone with HBO and Starz. Actually it's $155 plus additional fees for each cable box/adapter so it comes to about $200 a month.
I'm not saying that, but there are better ways to make the argument. Just saying copyright infringement is de facto seen as more morally acceptable than traditional property crimes. Not that I'm not a fan of justifying crime based on public moral standards; there are many activities that people have only fairly recently come to consider criminally culpable: environmental pollution, insider trading and even marital rape (!). I'm obviously not comparing copyright infringement to any of these, just suggesting that people not considering it a crime isn't a particularly good argument by itself.
Burger
Member
Impeccable
Member
Roses? Roses?
Burger
Member
Wrong.... Wrong.
Counterfeit money has no value?
Well, "real money" doesn't either. There is no such thing as "intrinsic value".
Perhaps people wouldn't use, or accept counterfeit money if they can recognize it... or perhaps they do use it regardless. I don't doubt there are inviduals who are such law-abiding people they wouldn't use it (and maybe even report it) but a lot of people sure as hell don't care either. Daily concerns are much more important.
Equating piracy with counterfeit money does not work.
Well, "real money" doesn't either. There is no such thing as "intrinsic value".
Perhaps people wouldn't use, or accept counterfeit money if they can recognize it... or perhaps they do use it regardless. I don't doubt there are inviduals who are such law-abiding people they wouldn't use it (and maybe even report it) but a lot of people sure as hell don't care either. Daily concerns are much more important.
Equating piracy with counterfeit money does not work.
Hmm, are you suggesting that all of those copyright infringers would happily rob a bank if there was no risk involved?
well i disagree. At least where i live, people can admit copyright infringement at the lunch table at work, with zero risk of meeting disapproval. People would not react with the same indifference if you admitted that you robbed banks on fridays.
edit: read your later post. I still disagree. But of course public perception is important when judging the seriousness of a crime. Or if it should even be a crime.
All the figures people are quoting here don't include ANY other service than pay-TV.
I pay $100 for internet
~$50 for phone (line rental is $35 + calls)
According to the pay-TV page, in my area the package for HBO shows is $72
Then we'd pay more for the extra boxes if we'd want them, not to mention whatever you pay for the satellite dish.
D
Deleted member 1235
Unconfirmed Member
I don't think you know what value means. You don't think value = theft do you? because you think quite a lot of things that are not theft are theft.
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