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[BotoxAgent]

Chance of Precipitation in DC today: 40%
Chance of Resignation: 100%

Part of me suspects McChrystal intentionally took a dive since he knows his Afghanistan policy has no chance of working with Karzai in control.

I'll bet we see him running for office in a few years - maybe with Petraeus.

lol, no way, if he wants to go into politics...it will be a disaster

 

[otake]

lol, no way, if he wants to go into politics...it will be a disaster

In a world where Sarah Palin was a candidate for the vice presidency anything is possible.

 

[Averon]

I think Obama has no choice but to fire him. This is the second time this happened and it is far worse this time around. Aside from the political ramifications (the Reps and Fox News are loving this, I'm sure), his remarks undermine Obama's authority with the military. If he doesn't fire McChrystal, it just reinforces the "wimp" imagaine McChrystal was painting of him.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Always wondered about how Obama is perceived by his generals; I didn't think they had much respect for him and this seems to bolster that idea.

Obama has enough shit to deal with. It's getting harder and harder to imagine him getting re-elected

 

[Quadrangulum]

I don't believe it was just a lapse in judgment. His surge was only partially implemented and I suspect even if he got everything he wanted, we still would end up failing in Afghanistan. He probably doesn't want to be there when the administration is forced to confront the situation again next year.

 

[MassiveAttack]

Always wondered about how Obama is perceived by his generals; I didn't think they had much respect for him and this seems to bolster that idea.

Obama has enough shit to deal with. It's getting harder and harder to imagine him getting re-elected

Gulf of Mexico disaster alone is threatening to completely derail his presidency. I still don't think the enormity of it has really sunk in yet for most people... but it will.

 

[JoeBoy101]

Now for those who say he should/will be fired/resign (of which I am one)?

The President has every right to fire him and very arguably should, given this tissy he just handed to the media, but given the current situation in Afghanistan, should he be kept on until its over? Bear in mind, the plan, IIRC, is to get out of there by 2011. If he is fired/resigned, and the strategy is changed along with him, won't the WH be significantly hurt if they walkback from what was agreed upon and sold previously?

EDIT: Full Rolling Stone Article at Time. Reading through now. Article.

Sweet Jesus, not passed the first page, when talking about a dinner in Paris with a French minister to bolster support:

How’d i get screwed into going to this dinner?” demands Gen. Stanley McChrystal. It’s a Thursday night in mid-April, and the commander of all U.S. and NATO forces in Afghanistan is sitting in a four-star suite at the Hôtel Westminster in Paris. He’s in France to sell his new war strategy to our NATO allies – to keep up the fiction, in essence, that we actually have allies. Since McChrystal took over a year ago, the Afghan war has become the exclusive property of the United States. Opposition to the war has already toppled the Dutch government, forced the resignation of Germany’s president and sparked both Canada and the Netherlands to announce the withdrawal of their 4,500 troops. McChrystal is in Paris to keep the French, who have lost more than 40 soldiers in
Afghanistan, from going all wobbly on him.
“The dinner comes with the position, sir,” says his chief of staff, Col. Charlie Flynn. McChrystal turns sharply in his chair.
“Hey, Charlie,” he asks, “does this come with the position?”
McChrystal gives him the middle finger.

“I’d rather have my ass kicked by a roomful of people than go out to this dinner,”
McChrystal says. He pauses a beat. “Unfortunately,” he adds, “no one in this room could do it.” With that, he’s out the door.
“Who’s he going to dinner with?” I ask one of his aides.
“Some French minister,” the aide tells me. “It’s fucking gay.”

 

[Dude Abides]

McChrystal appears to be something of a publicity hound. I wonder if he's planning to run for office.

 

[NH Apache]

Now for those who say he should/will be fired/resign (of which I am one)?

The President has every right to fire him and very arguably should, given this tissy he just handed to the media, but given the current situation in Afghanistan, should he be kept on until its over? Bear in mind, the plan, IIRC, is to get out of there by 2011. If he is fired/resigned, and the strategy is changed along with him, won't the WH be significantly hurt if they walkback from what was agreed upon and sold previously?

I think he will have to resign. No biggie for him, he will just find a cushy civilian job. As someone stated previously, his surge was never fully implemented and whoever is put in his place will do exactly what he is told to the letter.

But, I have always been told that if you ever want to get rid of your boss and/or manager, you do exactly what they say, to the letter, and nothing more.

Edit: Respect -1. His favorite beer is Bud Light Lime. Ugh.

 

[scorcho]

Always wondered about how Obama is perceived by his generals; I didn't think they had much respect for him and this seems to bolster that idea.

Obama has enough shit to deal with. It's getting harder and harder to imagine him getting re-elected

but there's a natural friction between the civilian leadership and military. the only difference now is that it was exposed stupidly by a General who quite possibly thought he was on equal footing to the President when it came to setting our Afghanistan policy.

 

[Evlar]

EDIT: Full Rolling Stone Article at Time. Reading through now. Article.

It almost seems staged. The first few paragraphs:

How’d i get screwed into going to this dinner?” demands Gen. Stanley McChrystal. It’s a Thursday night in mid-April, and the commander of all U.S. and NATO forces in Afghanistan is sitting in a four-star suite at the Hôtel Westminster in Paris. He’s in France to sell his new war strategy to our NATO allies – to keep up the fiction, in essence, that we actually have allies. Since McChrystal took over a year ago, the Afghan war has become the exclusive property of the United States. Opposition to the war has already toppled the Dutch government, forced the resignation of Germany’s president and sparked both Canada and the Netherlands to announce the withdrawal of their 4,500 troops. McChrystal is in Paris to keep the French, who have lost more than 40 soldiers in Afghanistan, from going all wobbly on him.

“The dinner comes with the position, sir,” says his chief of staff, Col. Charlie Flynn.

McChrystal turns sharply in his chair.

“Hey, Charlie,” he asks, “does this come with the position?” McChrystal gives him the middle finger.

I'm well aware this sort of banter happens all the time, and there's nothing at all wrong with it in the privacy of a commander and his aides... But in front of a reporter? On the topic of a diplomatic function with military allies? Really?

 

[empty vessel]

Aren't these things contradictory?

No, puppets sometimes have to denounce their masters for public consumption to keep what minimal support they have. Although I do think this particular relationship is strained and is a sign of how badly things are going. The more the puppet has to denounce his master to appease the public, the further lost is the imperial enterprise.

The US "lost" Afghanistan years ago. All that happens now (and that has been happening for years) is farce. An expensive one too--one that deprives us of, e.g., health care.

 

[NH Apache]

It almost seems staged. The first few paragraphs:

I'm well aware this sort of banter happens all the time, and there's nothing at all wrong with it... But in front of a reporter? On the topic of a diplomatic function with military allies? Really?

Seriously, here is another:

“Who’s he going to dinner with?” I ask
one of his aides.
“Some French minister,” the aide tells
me. “It’s fucking gay.”

Are these aides that stupid?


But I thought this was good:

The general’s staff is a handpicked collection
of killers, spies, geniuses, patriots,
political operators and outright maniacs.
There’s a former head of British Special
Forces, two Navy Seals, an Afghan
Special Forces commando, a lawyer, two
fighter pilots and at least two dozen combat
veterans and counterinsurgency experts.
They jokingly refer to themselves
as Team America, taking the name from
the South Park-esque sendup of military
cluelessness, and they pride themselves
on their can-do attitude and their disdain
for authority.

Fuck Yeah.

 

[scorcho]

It almost seems staged. The first few paragraphs:

I'm well aware this sort of banter happens all the time, and there's nothing at all wrong with it in the privacy of a commander and his aides... But in front of a reporter? On the topic of a diplomatic function with military allies? Really?

which makes me think this was a tactical move on McChrystal's part, a la his masterful command of the press leading up to Obama's decision on Afghanistan.

 

[LQX]

I wonder if this was maybe strategic on McChrystal part in hope he does get replaced to cover himself as he sees nothing working in Afghanistan even after asking for the additional troops (not sure if he has them all yet) and getting them.

 

[leroidys]

No, puppets sometimes have to denounce their masters for public consumption to keep what minimal support they have. Although I do think this particular relationship is strained and is a sign of how badly things are going. The more the puppet has to denounce his master to appease the public, the further lost is the imperial enterprise.

The US "lost" Afghanistan years ago. All that happens now (and that has been happening for years) is farce. An expensive one too--one that deprives us of, e.g., health care.

Well the U.S. obviously wanted Karzai out, and he definitely does not cooperate very well. I don't think he's really a classic "puppet", but obviously he wouldn't be in power if the U.S. wasn't there.

I don't really see Afghanistan as having anything to do with depriving us of Health Care. Iraq and Afghanistan have largely been funded by debt, so it's not like we're spending money we would just be spending elswehere. There simply isn't the political will, and the Corporate/Republican propoganda machine is too effective.

 

[bill0527]

Generals always want more troops.

Not always.

Tommy Franks wanted to go into Iraq with low numbers so that they could be more mobile and stop the possible sabotage of the oil fields and much of the rest of the infrastructure.

That didn't turn out all too well.

 

[MassiveAttack]

No, puppets sometimes have to denounce their masters for public consumption to keep what minimal support they have. Although I do think this particular relationship is strained and is a sign of how badly things are going. The more the puppet has to denounce his master to appease the public, the further lost is the imperial enterprise.

The US "lost" Afghanistan years ago. All that happens now (and that has been happening for years) is farce. An expensive one too--one that deprives us of, e.g., health care.

This is pretty much summarizes the entirety of the current situation. It's akin to an enormously expensive Broadway stage production that plays night after night in front of an empty theater and disastrous reviews.

 

[JoeBoy101]

Edit: Respect -1. His favorite beer is Bud Light Lime. Ugh.

He likes Talladega Nights though.

The article is quite an indictment of the current strategy though, pointing out in detail how its affecting the rank-and-file enlisted troops and how the reliance on Karzai is ruining credibility all around.

 

[Hari Seldon]

I agree with Biden. Shitcan this general.

 

[Jackson50]

Well, this only corroborates the numerous claims that Obama's administration has poor military relations. Furthermore, this will only exacerbate the uncertainty and instability in Afghanistan. If Gen. McChrystal resigns, this will be the second commander (first was Gen. McKiernan) sacked in a little over a year in Afghanistan. McChrystal will almost certainly resign by the end of the week. ADM Fallon was forced to resign as Commander of CENTCOM for less pointed remarks.

 

[LM4sure]

He could easily be found guilty under Article 134 of the UCMJ.

However, he won't. He'll be asked to resign and he's already positioned himself to be a GOP darling, so we'll see him on Fox News for a while before he runs for office.

Hopefully. I like this guy already. Really spoke his mind. I would vote for him.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

Hopefully. I like this guy already. Really spoke his mind. I would vote for him.

:lol :lol :lol

 

[scorcho]

:lol :lol :lol

says quite a bit about the idiocy of the voting public, doesn't it?

 

[ALeperMessiah]

Rolling Stone editor said they ran the story by him before print and he okay'd it. Sounds like he just wanted to go out in style...

 

[LM4sure]

says quite a bit about the idiocy of the voting public, doesn't it?

thank god for the electoral college!

 

[cartoon_soldier]

Sorry, but Obama basically gave this guy everything he asked for to handle Afghanistan.

He can go fuck himself after all that.

I mean this is all just schoolboy insults and other garbage against the administration. The guys here won their argument, they got their 30k additional troops, they got 18 months to do what they want to do, Obama gave the CENTCOM commander the authority to deploy forces as he needed. He did all that despite Biden being opposed to it, despite the diplomats deployed to Afghanistan being opposed to it, despite the liberal base being against it.

And what do we get, stupid fucking schoolbuy level insults and snipes from the guy.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Outside of the disagreement with Biden's counter-insurgency plan (which Obama decided against), it really doesn't sound like McChrystal or his aides made any specific gripe about policy - it's all high school bullshit griping and tough guy bravado. Especially in his comment about being disappointed with his Obama meeting. The aide focuses on Obama not knowing much about the general - doesn't say anything about Obama having a poor grasp of foreign policy.

Obama took awhile to decide, but eventually gave the dude what he wanted.

 

[PantherLotus]

Yeah, like watching basketball games and playing golf

What the hell is this? Seriously?

 

[JoeBoy101]

Rolling Stone editor said they ran the story by him before print and he okay'd it. Sounds like he just wanted to go out flipping the bird...

Fixed. Whatever happens to McChrystal, this creates a huge headache for the President.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

And even after he got everything, the truth his, the macho-man's strategy is failing.

And it is not because of Biden or Eikenberry or Holbrooke.

 

[ALeperMessiah]

And even after he got everything, the truth his, the macho-man's strategy is failing.

And it is not because of Biden or Eikenberry or Holbrooke.

Although it does raise the question, if Eikenberry and McChrystal were really on such bad terms since 2005, why were they both put together in Afghanistan?

 

[PhoenixDark]

Although it does raise the question, if Eikenberry and McChrystal were really on such bad terms since 2005, why were they both put together in Afghanistan?

yea, because government and military officials who don't agree are never forced to work together

...

 

[JoeBoy101]

Foregone Conclusion, but for the sake of completeness:

Afghan President Hamid Karzai fully supports the U.S. commander of foreign forces in the country despite his recall to Washington to answer questions about unflattering remarks aides made about the administration, a spokesman said on Tuesday

"The President strongly supports General McChrystal and his strategy in Afghanistan and believes he is the best commander the United States has sent to Afghanistan over the last nine years," said Waheed Omer.

 

[DrFunk]

What the hell is this? Seriously?

Don't entertain the morons

 

[cartoon_soldier]

As Andrew Sullivan puts it,

It doesn't take a genius to see this contempt as rooted in the growing recognition among many and the growing fear among the McChrystal clique that Biden has been right all along, that the McChrystal strategy was a product of hope over experience, and that the arrogance that drove it was part of what had long been wrong with the conduct of both tragically flawed wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. You see the same fear in McChrystal's contempt for Eikenberry, who took the Biden position

McChrystal is a man afraid now that he was wrong and people like Biden were right.

 

[BotoxAgent]

yeah, i really like how Sullivan summed it up...can always count on him in explaining it to me, lol

 

[Diablos]

McChrystal is a dick.

 

[Milabrega]

Only a matter of time before he's a paid Fox News contributor.

 

[PantherLotus]

Is it too early to say this looks like he sabotaged himself on purpose?

+conspiracy

...in order to make Obama look bad, derail growing Democrat authority over the military (and foreign relations), ingratiate himself with the Rush-wing of the Republican media, and eventually run for office?

 

[Joel Was Right]

Is it too early to say this looks like he sabotaged himself on purpose?

+conspiracy

...in order to make Obama look bad, derail growing Democrat authority over the military (and foreign relations), ingratiate himself with the Rush-wing of the Republican media, and eventually run for office?

American politics, fuck yeah

 

[Hitokage]

http://www.newsweek.com/2010/05/15/secrets-from-inside-the-obama-war-room.html

Apparently the Obama Administration gave McChrystal the benefit of the doubt the first time and believed him to just be naive as they clamped down on military command.

 

[Evlar]

The damage to Obama, in my view, is not that a four-star general doesn't respect him. It's that President Obama hand picked General McChrystal for the job of leading NATO forces in Afghanistan with a view of setting the conflict on the right course, and it is now abundantly clear that was a lousy choice. McChrystal may be a successful black-ops guy but he is not equipped to command a war effort of this kind.

 

[PhoenixDark]

How Much Did McChrystal Know

As a general matter, I think it's naive to indulge any sense that Gen. McChrystal didn't know just what he was doing and getting into with this Rolling Stone profile. He's a pro. He knows how to play this game. And to think otherwise just doesn't do him justice. However, there are a few points about what he knew specifically that I think should be addressed.

Rolling Stone Executive Editor Eric Bates went on TV this morning to defend the piece and noted that it had been fact-checked thoroughly. But that got picked up by Politico (in a now-revised) as him saying that McChrystal "saw the piece prior to its publication as part of Rolling Stone's standard fact-checking process."

Now, for those of you who aren't working journalists, allowing the subject of a piece to read the piece in advance of publication is a big no-no. That's not to say it never happens. Because the big glossies especially are always super hungry for the big celebrity exclusives and sometimes that's something that a celeb's publicity person will demand. But it's not supposed to happen. So we followed up with Rolling Stone Managing Editor Will Dana who confirmed that McChrystal definitely was not given the article to read in advance but was rather dealt with as a fact-checking normally would -- which is to say that McChrystal would have had the substance of his own quotes read back to him and be asked about specific factual assertions in the piece.

Again, I don't think you can buy the idea that McChrystal just stumbled into this. But it's not true that he actually read the piece and didn't object.

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2010/06/how_much_did_mcchrystal_know.php#more?ref=fpblg

 

[MaddenNFL64]

Is it too early to say this looks like he sabotaged himself on purpose?

+conspiracy

...in order to make Obama look bad, derail growing Democrat authority over the military (and foreign relations), ingratiate himself with the Rush-wing of the Republican media, and eventually run for office?

But he voted democrat... Rush will never forgive that :lol:

 

[speculawyer]

I tend to side with high ranking military officials..... If the Commander says he needs more troops, I tend to believe him. Something about many years of military training and experience...

Yeah, generals always want more troops.


Why are we even sticking around there? If we had infinite money, I'd have no problem with it. But we don't have infinite money.

 

[Y2Kev]

I think he needs to be replaced.

 

[PantherLotus]

Yeah, generals always want more troops.


Why are we even sticking around there? If we had infinite money, I'd have no problem with it. But we don't have infinite money.

I know this is even further down the conspiracy hole, but recent announcements of abundant amounts of precious minerals (uranium?) found in Afghanistan can't be overlooked.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

The damage to Obama, in my view, is not that a four-star general doesn't respect him. It's that President Obama hand picked General McChrystal for the job of leading NATO forces in Afghanistan with a view of setting the conflict on the right course, and it is now abundantly clear that was a lousy choice. McChrystal may be a successful black-ops guy but he is not equipped to command a war effort of this kind.

Yes, ultimately, Obama's success or failure will be determined by where we are in Afghanistan in 2012.

McChrystal is not the first General to have issues with the civilian leadership. In fact leading up to the Iraq invasion, Bush administraton publicly critized and rejected comments by Eric Shinseki.

Shinseki publicly clashed with Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld during the planning of the war in Iraq over how many troops the U.S. would need to keep in Iraq for the postwar occupation of that country. As Army Chief of Staff, General Shinseki testified to the U.S. Senate Armed Services Committee that "something in the order of several hundred thousand soldiers" would probably be required for postwar Iraq. This was an estimate far higher than the figure being proposed by Secretary Rumsfeld in his invasion plan, and it was rejected in strong language by both Rumsfeld and his Deputy Secretary of Defense, Paul Wolfowitz, who was another chief planner of the invasion and occupation. From then on, Shinseki's influence on the Joint Chiefs of Staff reportedly waned.

In fact, if you see videos, you can see Rumsfed and Bush officials joking and making fun of Shinseki's comments. But he didn't go out to some reporter and bring out his issues.

 

[Mr.Squirrel]

As someone who spent a lot of time around military folks, the whole chain of command/speaking ill of your CO is pretty big. He's gonna get chewed out for this.