CommonSense
Banned
I meant in general in any classroom. Regardless if I agree with the view presented or not. It is my job to raise my child..not theirs. In fact i would pull my kids from this school if this teacher was not disciplined.
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US Teacher Stomps on Flag; Causes anguish...
- Thread starter YoungHav
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I meant in general in any classroom. Regardless if I agree with the view presented or not. It is my job to raise my child..not theirs. In fact i would pull my kids from this school if this teacher was not disciplined.
We are. Imprinting is powerful.
The standard for our culture is for the first 18-22 years of our life, we will be in school. It takes 20-25 years for the frontal lobe of the brain to develop fully. This is where all your cognitive functions are. It stands to reaosn that you'd have this big footprint/indentation of schooling there since your brain was always focussed on schooling while these functions were developing.
The only reason I can understand you being outraged because of this is because you want to be outraged and thus you're making assumptions that aren't true. Instead of just taking it a lesson in the power of symbols you are inferring that it must be because of a political agenda, which seems really out of touch with reality.
Valkyr Junkie
Member
He should have stomped on a Malaysian flag since his students probably wouldn't have known the difference. Then the story when it made it to the news would have had a whole additional layer of hilarity.
I'm not even trying to criticize your decision to deny any views you do not agree with to be described to your children in public schools. I'm asking you what view you believe is being presented by this teacher.
mugurumakensei
Member
Except he's not presenting any view. He was doing a lesson on symbols.
ElectricBlue187
Member
CommonSense
CommonSense
Banned
Huh? I am simply saying a teacher is not being paid to show my kid it's okay to stomp on the American flag. Wherever you're trying to go with this...you're flying solo.
Sir_Crocodile
Member
Oh man, I thought I was the only one. It's like a slowly building chill of fear until I wake up and remember I graduated almost a decade ago.
malingenie
Member
Don't know about the mental health of the teacher, but the concept that these things only have value because we ascribe it seems very powerful and useful.
Not too long ago I realized we've all had this. Ask around, most college, masters or phd students have had this dream. Speaks of how stressful those times really were even if we didnt feel like it back then.
Great example of mystification.
CommonSense
Banned
Well except for the fact it clearly offended a lot of people...sure.
shoplifter
Member
Pardon me while I eat this cookie
and wipe my mouth
and wipe my mouth
Well, then you should have said that to begin with, not that he should keep his political views out of the school. That is an entirely different thing, and had nothing to do with what the teacher did.
You're not answering the question I asked nor did you respond to what ksan was pointing out (that this lesson what completely apolitical).
Again, I want to hear what you think the teacher's personal view that was being promoted was.
CommonSense
Banned
More like simplification...do you have any children or are you simply telling me what is okay to show mine?
The entire point was to show how powerful symbols can be. By stomping on the flag, he provoked an involuntary response out of the students. The whole point was to show them the power of symbols in general, to explain their importance and use in literature.
It was a good lesson.
It was a good lesson.
I have to say you are making an enormously convincing case for putting your own children in private school.
The Lamonster
Member
How is this a big deal? It's not like he took a shit on it or did anything illegal. I can't imagine the "outrage" had it been a bible.
Dude Abides
Banned
Clearly the lesson was far too subtle, as self-proclaimed adults still fail to understand it even though others have explained it repeatedly.
ElectricBlue187
Member
The fact that you don't like the teacher doing this in school only proves that you don't understand the lesson he was attempting to convey.
malingenie
Member
That's how I took it based on the little information I have. It's a really good lesson.
CommonSense
Banned
Again....don't show my kid it's okay to stomp the flag..no matter what justification you have for it. I would draw you a picture but I'm on my phone. I'm not here to debate the lesson..or to get into some high level debate about his motivation. I, again, am here to say don't putyour theories in my kid's head.
Hopefully your children would have actually understood the lesson.
The lesson isn't that it is "ok" to stomp on an American flag, the lesson is that doing so is a powerful act because of what the symbol represents
When did the teacher tell the kids it was okay to stomp the flag?
CommonSense
Banned
Perfect...next time he should stomp a picture of his mother...problem solved.
I'm telling you what's ok to show yours. Interesting how you employ language that implies ownership.
Dude Abides
Banned
Stop putting your anti-American theories of non-Euclidean geometry in my kid's head!
A Bible isn't a good analogue; the equivalent symbol representing Christian faith is the cross, and the teacher did apparently mention it. I can definitely understand not stomping on that as that would be singling out a symbol that carried varying levels of importance to the students present based on their religious convictions, whereas we can assume that every student in the classroom was at least American.
A good analogue to the Bible would be the Constitution. I'd find stomping on that many times more offensive than stomping on the flag.
What is the theory.
I don't think you're trying to be coy or obtuse. Just answer the question. "it's okay to stomp the flag" isn't even close to the teacher's point in this lesson, and it can't be what you think the teacher was trying to communicate- I mean you must suspect there's a reason the teacher wants to show students it's okay to stomp the flag. What do you believe that is?
CommonSense
Banned
Last time I checked I own them until they are 18.
Bullshit.
malingenie
Member
Wow that's a weird way of looking at it. You are probably right... I don't have any kids / don't know the legalese, but I've never heard it put this way in the 21st century United States.
CommonSense
Banned
Well then write a letter to the goverment and tell that to them...thanks.
Flipping off a policeman - OK
Walking in the street with an AR-15 for no reason - OK
Calling police because you saw people with AR-15s in the street - not OK
Stomping a flag to teach a lesson about symbols - not OK
Am I learning cultures now, GAF?
In all seriousness though. Is there any country which has the great sense of patriotism towards the flag? Because I can't recall any off the top of my head.
Walking in the street with an AR-15 for no reason - OK
Calling police because you saw people with AR-15s in the street - not OK
Stomping a flag to teach a lesson about symbols - not OK
Am I learning cultures now, GAF?
In all seriousness though. Is there any country which has the great sense of patriotism towards the flag? Because I can't recall any off the top of my head.
Glad my parents weren't like you.
He isn't right. Legal guardianship is nothing like ownership, nor does something you own have the legal right to seek an overturning of the arrangement if it is not in their best interest to continue.
Regardless, this is completely tangential to the discussion. He's well within his rights to homeschool or send his children to private school of course.
Regardless, this is completely tangential to the discussion. He's well within his rights to homeschool or send his children to private school of course.
The Lamonster
Member
Good point, those are apt comparisons. I wouldn't be much offended over the guy stomping on anything (other than my face or a loved one's face
) because everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I would just think the dude is an asshole but I wouldn't cry about it and call it an outrage. Not much 'symbolism' offends me.Your kids are human beings, not property. Love them for who they are, empower them with the knowledge and experiences that time has given you, and watch them blossom into unique individuals with their own views, their own talents, their own interests, their own friendships and relationships.
I hope you treat your children better than mere property.
CommonSense
Banned
By own I don't mean it literally. I mean it is my duty to care for my children until they are 18. If I fail to do so then I am responsible unless they are...now get this...emancipated..which implies.ownership. Their words, not mine. And how would you know what kind of parent I am? Being a bit short sighted aren't you?
Dude Abides
Banned
It's true. When I was seven my parents were in danger of missing a mortgage payment, so they sold me to a mining conglomerate. It treated me well enough but it's still kind of strange sending Father's Day cards to the Phelps-Dodge Corporation.
It is okay to stomp on the flag, and what 'theories'? The first amendment?
And that attitude is why so many kids are abused.
I'm just going on what you've posted in this thread.
You sound like the kind of parent who wants to shelter their kid from anything you consider to be taboo or damaging to your precious innocent view of how the real world operates, and your "I own them" comment gives me a strong impression as to how you view the parent-child relationship.
I think "emancipation" is actually an apt term for children escaping from abusive parental relationships, because it implies slavery. Not many kids seek to be emancipated from parents who help them to flourish.
You'd be doing your child/children a far better service by teaching them how to consider, analyze, and accept/reject new ideas, not insulating them from ideas you consider to be harmful.
Al-ibn Kermit
Junior Member
You have input in how they are raised but a big part of how they develop socially has left up to the schools where it is standardized and they can interact in a group setting. The lesson the teacher was trying to teach was that feeling an instinctive emotional response is universal, and that's a lesson that makes sense in a country that values protesting since you'll see flags of several countries getting stomped and burned at protests.
The lesson was important and it was very effective. Using a flag is better than using a religious symbol or a picture of a family member since it is less likely to cause offense. The only problem I can see is that it would be a bit shocking since he was probably the first person to do it in that district.
It's just a stupid flag. If someone stomped on my country's flag, i wouldn't give a shit. It's just a flag representing my country, nothing else.
People are really being outraged by something like this? He didn't stomped on a picture of their parents. NOW, that's something that would deserve to be outraged about.
Anyway, americans always had some very strong patriotism that is almost hard to understand for us "outsiders". I just had to roll my eyes when i watched Spiderman 3 this weekend and Spiderman ran in front of a giant american flag just in time to save the day! Did some people actually cheer during that ridiculous moment when the movie was in american theaters? I'm curious.
People are really being outraged by something like this? He didn't stomped on a picture of their parents. NOW, that's something that would deserve to be outraged about.
Anyway, americans always had some very strong patriotism that is almost hard to understand for us "outsiders". I just had to roll my eyes when i watched Spiderman 3 this weekend and Spiderman ran in front of a giant american flag just in time to save the day! Did some people actually cheer during that ridiculous moment when the movie was in american theaters? I'm curious.
CommonSense
Banned
Abuse? You can go straight to hell.
The idea that nobody should ever intellectually interact with your children in a way you disapprove of is disrespectful to your children as human beings, and frankly speaking, child abuse.
Doesn't matter. They'll discover 4chan sooner or later, with or without your help.
Dude Abides
Banned
I think it's because getting outraged over shit like this is a really cheap and easy way to show your "patriotism." Much more so than actually serving your country.
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