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Valve says it has sold ‘multiple millions’ of Steam Decks
apple_of_enlightenment
Member
Yeah 13.5M. Valve wouldn't be anywhere near that.
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
At least 2 million luck individuals. \o/
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
The case makes very easy to carry around.
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
.... how? The switch is literally an android tablet with 2 detachable controllers and a dock for hdmi out. It isnt that much harder to make a hybrid than it would be to make a handheld. You could even say the deck fits the description as it can connect other controllers and output to tv... You're just grasping at straws now.
Interfectum
Member
I actually use the Steam Deck like I use my Switch. Dock + PS5 controller on my 4KTV has been about 70% of my Diablo 4 time.
Mibu no ookami
Member
I came under attack and responded to everyone who attacked me or quoted me.
You have no idea what I do for a living and that's fine, but I'll again tell you that one of my key responsibilities is the purchase of hardware and that discussions with vendors would lead me to believe that the components in the original steam deck aren't nearly as expensive today as they were in 2022, but even without that experience, which you call into question, that should be obvious to everyone.
I would also add that if Steam Deck had more actually competition and not just high-margin competitors going for the niche of the niche, they would probably put out annual or bi-annual models to keep their margins and sales up.
A brand new iPhone 13 has a starting price of 599 and was released in September of 2021. Why doesn't Apple sell the iPhone 12 starting out at 499? It's because the margins aren't worth selling the product for that cheap yet they do produce the iPhone SE (2022), which they sell for 429.
Outside of the A15 bionic that they mass produce in the SE the iPhone 12 is significantly more expensive and advanced compared to the iPhone SE.
The iPhone 13 started off at 799 and can still be sold for a profit 2 years later at 599 (200 dollars cheaper). One it was already a high-margin profit, but the components are in fact cheaper today than they were in 2021. If they couldn't sell the iPhone 13 at a profit, they would have discontinued it.
Ask yourself the following questions and see if you want to keep arguing with me
- Do you think the Steam Deck launched at a loss (except for the 64 GB model)?
- Do you think the Steam Deck is the only device on the market that has maintained its cost to produce despite significant improvements in the supply chain?
- Do you think they're taking a loss on the OLED Steam Deck?
- Do you think they're taking a loss on the maintained LCD Steam Deck models?
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
Not bad for a niche item.
They nailed it and the new OLED is looking like an amazing mid gen refresh lol
They nailed it and the new OLED is looking like an amazing mid gen refresh lol
Interfectum
Member
Based on this, I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what Valve is doing with the Steam Deck.
It is a console style gateway to the Steam platform. It's for Steam fans to take their games on the go. It's not meant to compete with other consoles, other PCs or other handhelds nor is it meant to generate much, if any, income for Valve on hardware sales alone. It's another entry path to their store, nothing more.
They don't view ROG or the rest as competition as every user that buys those products will download Steam and play their games.
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Mibu no ookami
Member
Dude... you're lost in the sauce...
The difficulty for Sony and Microsoft to make a handheld version of their current platform is immense, but the difficulty to make a version that is both handheld and has the full capabilities of the current console is even more difficult.
The only reason Nintendo is able to accomplish this is because their platform is significantly behind the consoles.
Sony and Microsoft can't replicate that without concessions to their home console platform. They could however put out a a stand-alone handheld that played their games at low resolution and frame rate.
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
Define "sold well/impressive number" in a world that DS and PS2 sold 150+ millions.
FoxMcChief
Gold Member
Very cool. If I had the extra funds, I’d buy one. But I barely play on the consoles I own.
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
And made more money than PS3 and Xbox 360 and their almost 90 millions.
Mibu no ookami
Member
I know full well what they're doing.
They're trying to release hardware at a modest margin in order to push additional adoption of Steam. Increase loyalty among steam consumers to further lock them into the steam ecosystem, but there are 120 million steam users, 60 million daily active... and as few as 2 million steam decks sold? Even if it were 5 million that wouldn't be impressive.
The steam deck is profitable, since it is sold at a profit and they've almost certainly recouped R&D and manufacturing back, but that doesn't mean it'll have a great ROI.
Interfectum
Member
Steam Deck owners are a new consumer type for the platform so you can't really compare to the 120 million who most likely get on for GaaS. Let's say it's 3 million deck owners. That's 3 million people looking at the Steam store in a new light, purchasing games they may or may not have purchased on a PC. That's also 3 million people beta testing their OS and proton... their major get out of jail gambit should something happen to Windows in the next 5-10 years.
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Mibu no ookami
Member
The DS sold likely at a profit whereas the PS2 was largely sold at a loss. That's why Nintendo has the historic operating income that it has.
The Steam Deck isn't sold at a loss, so it doesn't need to recoup the sales via software sales and likely does nothing to increase software sales, though I guess there is a chance that someone may decide to buy a Steam version over a PS5 or XBS version because they can take the game on the road.
That may be why Sony is releasing the PS Portal (though, you're not going to be able to play that on a plane or a train).
To me the Steam Deck to really get sufficient ROI would need to sell 5 million units a year and should be close to 10 million units after 2 years.
My guess is multiple millions isn't 10 million.
WitchHunter
Banned
Let's wait and see how will they turn into monsters when they reach critical mass.
Zathalus
Member
So a price difference of $529 vs $549, a price increase of 4% but in return you get the following upgrades:
Improved 6nm SoC
Larger OLED HDR screen with 90hz refresh rate and double polling rate
Double SSD capacity
Faster LPDDR memory
Better Wi-fi module, upgrading to 6E standard
Better Bluetooth module, upgrade to 5.3
Additional antenna for better connectivity
25% larger battery, faster charging
Improved cooling
Better audio processor (dedicated DSP)
Some other internal and assembly improvements
Better thumbsticks and touch pads
Most of the cost saving would come from cheaper LPDDR5 and the 6nm SoC. The display would certainly be more expensive, while the larger battery and SSD offset any cost decreases there. The other improvements will also offset some potential savings from cheaper components.
The new OLED model seems to not offer a massive difference in profit for Valve.
Mibu no ookami
Member
Everyone I know who owns a Steam deck already had a steam library and still plays on their PC. Anecdotal for sure, but I don't see any evidence that they created a new consumer type.
FearlessBelgian
Member
That amazing to know.
Interfectum
Member
Either new consumers or even existing Steam users are most likely using Steam Deck differently than their PC. There are games that lend themselves very well to portable play and those games will be uplifted on Steam thanks to Steam Deck. Think Vampire Survivors or Dave the Diver. All users, new or old will be viewing the Steam Deck store in a different light. That's good diversifying sales, encouraging even more developers to put their games on the Steam platform.
October 2023:
No Dota, no TF2, barely any GaaS compared to what you see in the top 10 most played games on Steam overall.
Also, between Steam, Battle.net and EGS... as a Steam Deck and PC owner, should a game be available across all stores which one are you most likely to buy it on? The one that easily allows you to play across all your hardware. Another incentive to keep your library all on Steam.
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Bry0
Member
Gabe said back at launch “we hope to sell millions” and they did. Also spawned a market for handhelds. Seems successful to me. Gabe said in that same ign interview on the launch of deck that they like testing the waters, and can afford to do so thanks to being private. Decision making doesn’t have to be centered around the next quarter.
They dropped steam machines like a hot potato but are already talking about deck 2, so they clearly have some motivation to keep doing this type of hardware.
They dropped steam machines like a hot potato but are already talking about deck 2, so they clearly have some motivation to keep doing this type of hardware.
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64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
The switch being the all in one Nintendo platform wouldn't have dissuaded Sony or Microsoft from simply making a scaled down hybrid system as a companion to their larger systems. MS is already ahead on this aspect since they have the Xbox series s. they don't have to go full nuclear and turn their entire ecosystem into a hybrid.
If the switch with their 120 million sales didn't make MS or Playstation budge a steam deck is not going to so it. Again, competitional response does not automatically mean success.
Mibu no ookami
Member
The purchase of the older components at this point might have cost them more than they're worth. We'll see how long they continue to support the LCD models.
The long overdue price cut for the LCD models should tell you exactly that they were largely overpriced at this point in their life.
The price point for the OLED model would not have come at a cost of margins and the LCD models even with their cut price are still above margin...
Somehow you're focused on the previous price while ignoring that the original components were already cheaper.
AREYOUOKAY?
Member
Yeah I bet they did with their recent scam sales without telling anyone there was about to be an upgrade.:format(webp)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/25070059/DSCF9169.jpg)
/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/25070059/DSCF9169.jpg)
Valve says it has sold “multiple millions” of Steam Decks
The handheld gaming PC has proven to be a big hit for Valve.www.theverge.com
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64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
Valve is a private company, free from investors who owns the most popular digital gaming storefront in the world. They should have turned into monsters years ago.
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
To you? You are a Valve owner/employee?
Mibu no ookami
Member
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
On top of all this how do you even know how much the deck cost to make? 2 million 400 dollar sales would be 800 million bucks, and we both know people bought more expensive models than just the 400 dollar model. If the deck was so overpriced as you claim it is valve would have broke even by now, if not soon
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Mibu no ookami
Member
It's not that simple.
Look at the XSS which is essentially a scaled-down verison of the XSX and it isn't even a hybrid and it's had a massive impact (negative) on the Xbox.
Sleepwalker
Member
I did not have a steam library prior to getting a deck, I didn't care how I got my PC games, now I try to favor steam as much as possible for deck compatibility.
Zathalus
Member
I'm pointing out that it doesn't look like Valve is intending to significantly increase margins on the Steam Deck. The original model gets a significant price cut while the newer model justifies why it got the 4% price increase. I fully agree that the devices are sold above margin just like any other PC or gaming console out there.
The Steam Deck goals are quite clear, try and expand the nascent PC handheld market, make Steam a more appealing platform, and offer a way for Valve to expand Linux gaming so as to break the shackles of Microsoft. It has clearly succeeded at all of that.
Everything Valve has done or talked about the Steam Deck clearly indicates that making a ton of money from direct sales of the device was not a primary concern.
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Mibu no ookami
Member
You're talking about revenue not income... jesus dude...
Gabe Newell suggested that the 64gb model was sold at a loss.
Let's assume a minimal loss of 25 dollars per unit. That means at a minimum the Steam deck would have cost 425 dollars to manufacture.
That means that the most they were making off the 512gb model was 225 dollars less the cost of the 512gb storage. So let's say 175 dollars...
That's a pretty good margin, but what's the breakdown of sales across 64gb, 256gb, and 512gb?
The 256 model launched for 529 which would have been 104 dollars less the cost of the 256 gb storage... so maybe 75 dollars?
Storage costs have plummeted to I'm sure their margins improved greatly there, which is why they're able to up the storage so easily.
They might have been able to make more money with a better steam controller without the need for R&D and support... At the end of the day we don't know how many units sold, because they refuse to tell us. But when a company is vague about their sales, they're generally not good.
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
Do you know what is the Valve profit target?
Mibu no ookami
Member
I don't know that they've accomplished any of that.
I don't see this huge expansion of SteamOS.
Do they have copycats? Yeah, so did tiger electronics... Their copycats are more expensive with higher specs, but probably significantly higher margins.
It just looks like a nothing burger.
Interfectum
Member
Valve is vague about everything, I wouldn't read too much into that.
When Valve loses interest in something, they drop it. Half Life 3, Steam Controller, Steam Machine, TF2, etc.
The fact they are releasing an OLED version and talking about Steam Deck 2 tells me they are satisfied with the results so far.
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Mibu no ookami
Member
It's a private company, so we'll probably never know. But everything comes at a cost and that is opportunity cost.
The money and resources put into this aren't being put into game development or expansion into more Mac support on Steam.
When you look at companies and their missed opportunities, it always comes down to opportunity costs.
Interfectum
Member
And... Valve knows exactly what metrics Steam Deck is selling at and what it's bringing to the Steam platform. So they see this as a good opportunity as they are continuing to invest in Steam Deck, Steam OS, etc. So what is your argument here?
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64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
Most people actually bought the higher tier 500 and 600 versions over the lossy 400gb model, valve probably saw more profit than they did losses.
I'm done here. Typing paragraphs on a phone is annoying and unfun.
A more interesting conversation would be asking if putting the thing in more retail stores would increase sales since all the major consoles including even vr do so.
Interfectum
Member
I think Valve wants to be careful how popular Steam Deck actually gets, tbh. I don't think they want Sony or MS to see Steam or Steam Deck as a true competitor or threat as that could change their relationship and what is put on their store.
Steam Deck is a template for others to follow on how to get PC gaming in the portable realm. Since they dominate PC gaming, they win either way.
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ThisIsMyDog
Member
I for one don't even have a clue what you guys are trying to discuss here.
Tams
Member
Eh, the clearance sales are fair enough and it's very common in many industries. If anything, it should have been a clear sign something was up.
The gaslighting over there being an upgraded version when by that point they will have had the design locked down and maybe even the devices in production... very scummy.
Mibu no ookami
Member
Putting it in retail stores might increase sales, but it would decrease income. They have a close relationship with their community and they know they can do direct sales.
Tesla could sell their cars at dealerships, but that comes at the cost of the dealer needing to take their cut.
Direct sales are becoming significantly more the model.
Mibu no ookami
Member
So your argument is they haven't discontinued it so it has to be meeting their expectations (that they won't discuss publicly)
So fortunate to be a privately held company...
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
If the deck sells more people get on steam which means a larger audience of people are exposed to sony and ms pc ports. More money for all parties involved. If anything it would be in their best interest to keep Deck sales high so more pc ports get sold.
Especially since it removes the need for either company to make their own dedicated handheld
Interfectum
Member
My argument is action speak louder than words. They said Steam Deck sold millions and they are continuing to invest it in. Clearly they are happy with the result so far and/or they see a reason to continue.
Also one of the many perks for being a private company is they don't have to disclose anything to the public. So yeah, of course they aren't going to discuss loses or wins publicly. They have literally no reason to.
Again, what is your argument here? Do you even know?
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