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[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

There's zero chance of them over taking Sony in one season man, it doesn't seem to have done anything when the Xbox one has been cheaper than the ps4 for sometime now, the Xbox has been sub £200 with games over the past few months.

not in one season, but 2014 didnt see the same drastic reduction in lead in the UK as it did in the US. I reckon Microsoft has the potential to halve the gap in the same way his year, leading to drawing neck and neck by the time scorpio arrives.

 

[justsomeguy]

Ouch.

Share price is way way up on the figures and that's usually a good indicator for the company as a whole. Xbox news could be better eh

 

[justsomeguy]

Matt fascinating insights keep posting!

 

[SOR5]

Matt fascinating insights keep posting!

 

[Bluth54]

I think the latter is why you didn't buy it.

It'd be like someone who only buys physical disks saying "i'm not buying the game I really want as it's only for sale in Walmart and I don't like how their produce section is laid out"

It's just daft

Or maybe, just maybe some people don't trust Microsoft after they abandoned Games for Windows Live and left people unable to redownload any games bought from the Games for Windows Live store for almost 4 months.

Is it that daft to not trust buying anything from the Windows 10 store after that and the extremely poor state of the store compared to their competitors?

 

[pitchfork]

The xbox and windows store are unified now right?

Folks buying digitally from the xbox marketplace will count as a windows store sale?

Anyhoo, I don't think many people are surprised by these figures with the upcoming (and long rumoured) launch of a slim and upgraded HW are they?

Should be interesting to see how things pan out with the HW - I hope for the best : )

 

[OléGunner]

not in one season, but 2014 didnt see the same drastic reduction in lead in the UK as it did in the US. I reckon Microsoft has the potential to halve the gap in the same way his year, leading to drawing neck and neck by the time scorpio arrives.

Excuse me?

What low price and combo of market factors would make XB1 sell another 25+ million units in a year from now? That's not realistic at all.

I mean even talking only US and UK, I find that incredibly hard to believe.

 

[MilkyJoe]

Oy.

No, it won't. It's not a perfect comparison, but the simple fact remains that the Windows Store has been a complete dude, with awful sales. It is actually very difficult to launch a new digital marketplace, which is why so few succeed. There is no reason to think that that situation will change anytime soon, and certainly no reason to believe that Forza Horizon 3 will be the game to change it.

But I guess we'll see.

Then I guess the "no reason to buy an xbox one now" decree goes out the window ;o)

 

[The Maverick]

Man, to an observer, Xbox is in a really tough space. Xbox One S might be a decent bandaid, but I don't really think it's going to change the direction the ship is headed. And Scorpio is so far away that by the time it hits, it won't have a chance to be a difference maker either, definitely not with Neo potentially out a year ahead. Their current IP aren't paradigm shifting anymore and they've haven't had a new IP hit system seller level like last generation. And there ain't any Kinect-like tricks up the sleeve, it seems.

I just don't see any reason why Microsoft would continue to stick around in the console space. Not a lot of room for growth/profit margins, games aren't going to change the fortunes of the Windows 10 store or platform in general. What function does Xbox serve in the future of Microsoft?

I think folks over there are gonna be thinking long and hard on that question.

 

[wesleyshark]

Xbox Live is up by quite a bit? Sounds like they are doing just fine. People constantly forget that Microsoft is, at its core, a services company.

 

[MilkyJoe]

Man, to an observer, Xbox is in a really tough space. Xbox One S might be a decent bandaid, but I don't really think it's going to change the direction the ship is headed. And Scorpio is so far away that by the time it hits, it won't have a chance to be a difference maker either, definitely not with Neo potentially out a year ahead. Their current IP aren't paradigm shifting anymore and they've haven't had a new IP hit system seller level like last generation. And there ain't any Kinect-like tricks up the sleeve, it seems.

I just don't see any reason why Microsoft would continue to stick around in the console space. Not a lot of room for growth/profit margins, games aren't going to change the fortunes of the Windows 10 store or platform in general. What function does Xbox serve in the future of Microsoft?

I think folks over there are gonna be thinking long and hard on that question.

It's be bad for PS fans if they did back out... But I'm sure they will weather out a year, Nintendo are doing OK and they have had an absolute stinker.

 

[PackAPunchedMick]

not in one season, but 2014 didnt see the same drastic reduction in lead in the UK as it did in the US. I reckon Microsoft has the potential to halve the gap in the same way his year, leading to drawing neck and neck by the time scorpio arrives.

Oh dear. We have another MAU casualty over here.

 

[wesleyshark]

not in one season, but 2014 didnt see the same drastic reduction in lead in the UK as it did in the US. I reckon Microsoft has the potential to halve the gap in the same way his year, leading to drawing neck and neck by the time scorpio arrives.

Xbone won't catch ps4. Not happening. That being said, it's an irrelevant goal for Microsoft.

 

[wapplew]

Man, to an observer, Xbox is in a really tough space. Xbox One S might be a decent bandaid, but I don't really think it's going to change the direction the ship is headed. And Scorpio is so far away that by the time it hits, it won't have a chance to be a difference maker either, definitely not with Neo potentially out a year ahead. Their current IP aren't paradigm shifting anymore and they've haven't had a new IP hit system seller level like last generation. And there ain't any Kinect-like tricks up the sleeve, it seems.

I just don't see any reason why Microsoft would continue to stick around in the console space. Not a lot of room for growth/profit margins, games aren't going to change the fortunes of the Windows 10 store or platform in general. What function does Xbox serve in the future of Microsoft?

I think folks over there are gonna be thinking long and hard on that question.

Be the only publisher that publish games for Windows 10 store.

 

[Bioshocker]

Most of ms exclusives are stacked in the later part of this year....and have been for most years....they still have recore...gears and forza to come

Gears is big for sure, but ReCore is a big [?] at this point. FH 3 is good and all, but it won't move units. So it still doesn't measure up to fall 2015 imo.

 

[LordRaptor]

It is actually very difficult to launch a new digital marketplace, which is why so few succeed.

It's even harder when you're trying to push that storefront with additional undesirable (for consumers) strings attached to it and coming from a position of being untrustworthy to your target demographic in the first place.

 

[bigjig]

not in one season, but 2014 didnt see the same drastic reduction in lead in the UK as it did in the US. I reckon Microsoft has the potential to halve the gap in the same way his year, leading to drawing neck and neck by the time scorpio arrives.

That's not how console purchases work. As the Neo comes out the original PS4 will drop in price, drawing in more casual gamers. What console are the casuals going to go with? The one that all their friends have, the market leader. It's already over, the Xbox will never magically catch up to the PS4 no matter how "stacked" the Xbox massive believe its holiday lineup to be.

 

[Kayant]

It doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things, no. It's just that Ive now been in a few threads where people have said 'listen to what Matt is saying' and if I'm to take stock of what someone is saying then I want to at least understand the perspective they are coming from.

I'm not having a go at the guy it's just that I've seen people say he is a developer, someone have said he's an 'MS insider' and I've seen people say he's a 'Sony insider'.

When someone posts about the inner workings of a major corporation and what their internal projections and road maps are moving forward, not just what new games are getting made - it piques my interest. That's all.

Fair point I do share your curiosity

Yh it's hard to tell I guess because of the things he has hinted/said before but he's a dev [/URL and I would guess he just knows the "right" people to know what he knows or from experience. Also if you look at things like the [URL="http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1230579"]Kotaku rumor which he supported as having heard similar things it's not hard to believe to a degree once you look at things more closely.

 

[Conduit]

not in one season, but 2014 didnt see the same drastic reduction in lead in the UK as it did in the US. I reckon Microsoft has the potential to halve the gap in the same way his year, leading to drawing neck and neck by the time scorpio arrives.

Drastic reduction in lead during holidays 2014 in US? Yes. In UK? No. They won that holiday period ( Nov. and Black Friday ) in UK, but there was no drastic reduction in lead. But PS4 beat Xbone during Christmas 2014 in UK.

 

[HocusPocus]

The Kinect effect for launching with an overpriced console against the competition continues.

 

[CosmicQueso]

They would have give some serious incentives to publishers to basically end double dipping.

MS does these reviews with 3rd parties to review digital performance on XBL regularly thoughout the year. At these meetings, a PowerPoint presentation is shared that has green yellow and red coding for publisher support of various initiatives. In this presentation will be a new color box for play anywhere. Someone from MS at the meeting will say "you should support play anywhere. Right now we have you as red as you're not currently participating and we think it would help your software sales." That's going to be, I think, the entirety of the incentive package.

 

[madmackem]

Then I guess the "no reason to buy an xbox one now" decree goes out the window ;o)

To see them claw back ground in USA and uk would pretty much require Xbox to be double sales of ps4 I just can't see it at all and can if anything see ps4 getting a boost with neo and PSVR hitting this year.

 

[twobear]

Who is making the MS leaving the console business celebration OT?

 

[Steejee]

I had always sorta pegged MS as being more likely to exit the console space first between Sony, MS, and Nintendo (ever since they announced the original XBox), and news like this just reinforces that expectation.

I'd be willing to bet Scorpio is their console hardware swan song. They've thrown so much money at this industry and just haven't been able to make it stick.

 

[Z3M0G]

I'm sure the gaming division was thrilled to see MS leadership pointing at them when looking for a reason for the overall decline.

The reality is, the "choice" being offered was, "Hey, don't buy a PS4 or PS Neo when that comes out; we've got something even better coming!" I'm certain it likewise had a negative effect on their sales, but regardless of the PR of it, they weren't announcing it to save you from buying an Xbox One now, when something new is coming.

Sony NOT mentioning NEO during E3 was just their way of getting in a good jab against MS, just like they did with the DRM stuff a couple years back.

MS is totally regretting even mentioning Scorpio now, I'm sure of it.

 

[OléGunner]

They've thrown so much money at this industry and just haven't been able to make it stick.

Hmmm a bit harsh.

They've successfully cultivated a decent brand in Xbox (albeit now limited in worldwide appeal) and created some good IP for themselves in Halo, Gears and Forza.

Could always spin the division off if ever needed but that'll likely never happen.

 

[c0de]

I had always sorta pegged MS as being more likely to exit the console space first between Sony, MS, and Nintendo (ever since they announced the original XBox), and news like this just reinforces that expectation.

I'd be willing to bet Scorpio is their console hardware swan song. They've thrown so much money at this industry and just haven't been able to make it stick.

To be fair, over 80 million xbox 360 sold was mighty impressive and thus it was one of the most bought home consoles ever.

 

[Gamezone]

Announcing Scorpio so far in advance was an act of desperation.

Everything leaked anyway. It`s not like people don`t know about Sony`s upcoming Playstation 4 without an official announcement.

 

[Final Verdict]

I think it explains the OneS being released sooner than traditional slims that are usually holiday, personally.

After-all, it is the 'pre-season'.

Haven't Xbox slim revisions typically launched around this time of year?

I think the 360 s and 360 e revisions both launched in June.

 

[wapplew]

Who is making the MS leaving the console business celebration OT?

After MS leaving PC gaming business celebration OT.

 

[Welfare]

Haven't Xbox slim revisions typically launched around this time of year?

I think the 360 s and 360 e revisions both launched in June.

Yes, both right after E3 in fact (in the US at least), and both PS3 revisions were in late August/early September.

Who is making the MS leaving the console business celebration OT?

After the Nintendo goes 3rd party and Sony going bankrupt OT's.

 

[c0de]

Who is making the MS leaving the console business celebration OT?

Too many candidates to choose from, despite a lot being juniored.

 

[Dash_Riprock]

Announcing Scorpio so far in advance was an act of desperation.

So business as usual then? Cause as far as I'm concerned, everything MS has done since 2013 was an act of desperation.

 

[LegendofDragoonLives]

not in one season, but 2014 didnt see the same drastic reduction in lead in the UK as it did in the US. I reckon Microsoft has the potential to halve the gap in the same way his year, leading to drawing neck and neck by the time scorpio arrives.

What delusional world do you live in, and what else can you tell us about that other world compared to the one everyone on gaf lives in?

 

[timlot]

Announcing Scorpio so far in advance was an act of desperation.

Damn, I wish I had Microsoft desperation.

 

[Bits N Pieces]

Fair point I do share your curiosity

Yh it's hard to tell I guess because of the things he has hinted/said before but he's a dev [/URL and I would guess he just knows the "right" people to know what he knows or from experience. Also if you look at things like the [URL="http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1230579"]Kotaku rumor which he supported as having heard similar things it's not hard to believe to a degree once you look at things more closely.

Thanks for that link, so hes a dev working with both Sony and MS? Interesting.

Will keep an eye out for his posts in the future

 

[Outrun]

Man, to an observer, Xbox is in a really tough space. Xbox One S might be a decent bandaid, but I don't really think it's going to change the direction the ship is headed. And Scorpio is so far away that by the time it hits, it won't have a chance to be a difference maker either, definitely not with Neo potentially out a year ahead. Their current IP aren't paradigm shifting anymore and they've haven't had a new IP hit system seller level like last generation. And there ain't any Kinect-like tricks up the sleeve, it seems.

I just don't see any reason why Microsoft would continue to stick around in the console space. Not a lot of room for growth/profit margins, games aren't going to change the fortunes of the Windows 10 store or platform in general. What function does Xbox serve in the future of Microsoft?

I think folks over there are gonna be thinking long and hard on that question.

They persevere perhaps because they understand that they do not need to be first, and that games as service is the future?

 

[watership]

Who is making the MS leaving the console business celebration OT?

That theme lives in the heart of every Xbox thread ever since 2001. It doesn't need an OT.

 

[Bastables]

To be fair, over 80 million xbox 360 sold was mighty impressive and thus it was one of the most bought home consoles ever.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_game_consoles
Home Console sales by company
Nintendo 282.91 million
Sony >381.29 million
Microsoft 128 million *(added another 10 million to bring Xbox one to 20 million, wiki only has it at it's last reported number of 10 million).

Top 4
PlayStation 2 >155 million
PlayStation 102.49 million
Wii Nintendo 101.63 million
Xbox 360 Microsoft 84 million

It was the only one that was impressive (360) and did the yeoman's work of bringing the brand to 1/3 or /14 of it's competitors total sales. Considering the investment, that should be disturbing.

 

[Dash_Riprock]

If Neo manages to get a one year headstart and classic PS4 sees a price drop, fight will be over before even starting imho

I'm not still not convinced either Neo or Scorpio will have the effect Sony or MS want. General consumers will have to embrace the Cell-Phone upgrade mentality...

Edit: And with Matt weighing in things got a lot more serious...

 

[Bitch Pudding]

Damn, I wish I had Microsoft desperation.

Think of it from the perspective of people working at the XBOX division, especially those involved in the hardware business. There is a lot at stake here for some people, even if MS's shareholders are doing just fine.

 

[Steejee]

Hmmm a bit harsh.

They've successfully cultivated a decent brand in Xbox (albeit now limited in worldwide appeal) and created some good IP for themselves in Halo, Gears and Forza.

Could always spin the division off if ever needed but that'll likely never happen.

I don't feel like I'm being too harsh. They had the cash to do it, and it was a decent enough gamble to make (PCXL thought otherwise though), they just haven't gotten the traction they needed. I'm not sure what other ways you could break into the console gaming market these days besides throwing buckets of cash at it...

To be fair, over 80 million xbox 360 sold was mighty impressive and thus it was one of the most bought home consoles ever.

Yeah, they certainly had some success. Jumping into a crowded market and hitting that number on your second entry is impressive, but after 15 years (good god they've been in console gaming for 15 years now!) I feel like they need to justify the effort and expenditure to investors and just haven't gotten the numbers to do that. It's impossible to know how much they've actually earned/lost overall on XBox, but clearly it hasn't been a boon for them.

For Nintendo, even though the WiiU was a commercial flop, the as a whole is a gaming company through and through, so they sorta have to make it work somehow or die. Sony is a hardware company first, so jumping into the console space (especially in the manner they did) was viable, and they've been able to do well enough every cycle to keep it going, though I wonder what would have happened if they hadn't turned the PS3 around.

Losing XBox as a console brand would suck some, if for nothing else than having three major players is nice. They could turn it around, Sony/Nintendo have turned it around in the past after all, but it's more a question of 'Is it worth it' than 'Can we do it'.

 

[Montresor]

We are going to continue to hear that Xbox will leave the console business for the next 10 or so years, huh? The group releasing two consoles (Slim + Scorpio) in short succession are going to leave?

You know Sony/PS4 can kick butt and continue to lead console sales by a significant margin without Microsoft/Xbox bowing down? This thought process does not seem to enter anyone's mind from what I can tell.

 

[Sydle]

Ouch.

The MS summary released actually cited revenue deferral of Windows 10 of around $2.0 billion as the primary reason revenue was down YoY. Xbox isn't even mentioned until the segment information. Not sure how VentureBeat concluded it was primarily due to Xbox other than journalism lol

SUMMARY

Revenue was $20.6 billion, down 7% year-over-year. The decrease in revenue was primarily driven by the net revenue deferral from Windows 10 of $2.0 billion. Windows 10 revenue is primarily recognized upfront in the More Personal Computing segment, and the deferral and subsequent recognition of revenue is reflected in Corporate and Other. Revenue included an unfavorable foreign currency impact of approximately $596 million or 3%. Non-GAAP revenue was $22.6 billion, up 2% year-over-year, including an adjustment for the net revenue deferral from Windows 10.

https://view.officeapps.live.com/op...?version=f27cab50-6938-fe56-dbe1-5d83dce7ec2a

 

[cakely]

5 million people aren't going to buy FH3 on the Windows Store. 1/100th of that would still be 5 times more than RotTR managed. And that sold well for the Windows Store.

10k units? We knew it was bad but, sweet fancy Moses!

 

[MilkyJoe]

Think of it from the perspective of people working at the XBOX division, especially those involved in the hardware business. There is a lot at stake here for some people, even if MS's shareholders are doing just fine.

Which is why I think they let it out so early.

Especially with VR about to drop.

I guess they weighed up the pros and cons and made a calculated decision.

 

[Napalm_Frank]

We are going to continue to hear that Xbox will leave the console business for the next 10 or so years, huh? The group releasing two consoles (Slim + Scorpio) in short succession are going to leave?

You know Sony/PS4 can kick butt and continue to lead console sales by a significant margin without Microsoft/Xbox bowing down? This thought process does not seem to enter anyone's mind from what I can tell.

How many phones did MS/Nokia release just a few years ago doe?

 

[Bastables]

We are going to continue to hear that Xbox will leave the console business for the next 10 or so years, huh? The group releasing two consoles (Slim + Scorpio) in short succession are going to leave?

We don't know, historically with two "consoles" in a short time you have relative successes with the n3ds and xl, and of course the utter train wreck of the 32x and Saturn.

 

[Darkstorne]

Maybe, but if they announced the S and people bought it without knowing about Scorpio coming a year later then they'd stand to lose consumer trust.

Lose, lose situation.

Yeah this whole situation confuses me. I would have thought the smarter move was to release both the S and Scorpio on the same day, having the S replace the standard Xbox One as a cheap Xbox option for families (so a low price point), and Scorpio being the enthusiast option.

Maybe they were forced to release new hardware this year in an attempt to bolster sales?

 

[Zedox]

So you don't think the price drops, bundles and removing kinect have helped?

I didn't state that nor implied that. I was responding to someone who thought a little thing (in my eyes) would make Xbox One have Wii U-level sales.

We are going to continue to hear that Xbox will leave the console business for the next 10 or so years, huh? The group releasing two consoles (Slim + Scorpio) in short succession are going to leave?

You know Sony/PS4 can kick butt and continue to lead console sales by a significant margin without Microsoft/Xbox bowing down? This thought process does not seem to enter anyone's mind from what I can tell.

You would think with some people's mindset that Apple shouldn't be in the PC market. You can still be profitable, have a business and not be #1 in that industry. But that's being reasonable.