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[Bear Force One]

Lol you sound like a fanboy. This is videogames it ain't that serious.

And of course PS4 has the worldwide market, MS never has and never will lead outside the states it's not even worth mentioning. Still doesn't change my belief that I think Scorpio will easily match Xbone sales, probably far exceed it.

No I sound like reality. A more expensive Xbox appeals to a smaller subset of Xbox buyers. Not a larger one.

I see fanboys adding this to the save us chalkboard but it's not feasible.

 

[MilkyJoe]

And? I know this but I'm saying it needs killer exclusives and needs a major ramp up on games coming to their platform. The big reason PS4 is doing better is a bigger, more varied line up of games. They can't continue this having three or four exclusives a year piled in during the holidays. They need more and be more spread out.

Just being more powerful doesn't make up for its lack of games in regards to the competition.

Well it's a good job exclusives are entirely subjective.

 

[anothertech]

Except being the better console. Probably have the better VR too. All inconsequential, the new generation-less model does away with the head start thing every time a new console drops. Console war has gone cold, infinite (?) BC is about keeping people in the ecosystem.

This is true. The problem Is the ecosystem and install base for Xbox is dwindling.

We are about to enter the time when 360 sales eclipse the Xbone sales figures in the US year for year and they know this.

On top of that their competitor is about to release a mid gen consol AND VR a year ahead of their mid gen offering. Gaining momentum and traction for a year in the same market as Scorpio.

Being the 'best console' released a year later will be expected. But like you say, may be looked as inconsequential. They need to make some strides in growing their ecosystem, not just keeping what they have or their gaming division will just be left in the dust by their competitors on PC (steam) and console (Sony).

 

[tapedeck]

No I sound like reality. A more expensive Xbox appeals to a smaller subset of Xbox buyers. Not a larger one.

I see fanboys adding this to the save us chalkboard but it's not feasible.

Please provide me with the information you have on project Scorpio's price.

 

[The Artisan]

More like 40% more powerful or 1.4x.

The power in Scorpio/Neo won't be used in the right way because the gaming experience will be held by lower denominator PS4/Xbone.

PS4 did have nothing holding it to use the 40% more power.

And it was proved that one year head start do wonders even for week hardware... 2017 release is a big risk for Scorpio... one of 360 success was launching one year ahead competition.

If we are talking about Scorpio releasing this year then I could agree with you.

do we know for sure that scorpio is releasing significantly later than Ps4K though? i thought both were releasing in 2017, but I'm not aware of any time gaps.

yes it was proven that a year headstart does give a headstart for weaker hardware but if you're talking about 360, it was also much simpler hardware than the competition

We won't have any real idea how they compare until we see titles running on both. Raw specs are useful but not always determinative. If the GPU compute units are the bottleneck it's expected to be 43% faster. If memory bandwidth is the limiting factor it's more like 50%. If texture units or ROPs wind up being a factor we have no idea. Likewise for CPU aside from a few wild guesses. All of this assumes they deliver on the announced specs, and that the leaked Neo specs are accurate.

I thought both of the new consoles were running on the same type of hardware, but with higher specifications? In theory then if the scorpio has overall better specs then isn't it safe to assume that most shit will perform better on it? just like how now most shit performs better on the OG Ps4 vs OG xbone?

So it could be a reversal of the 8th gen launch — except with one console arriving a year later this time, and good reason to expect the price disparity will also be reversed. In short: nobody really knows how it will play out, and it's definitely not directly comparable to the PS4/Xbox One launch.

which one is supposed to release first? what are the rumored release dates of each?

I think you're wrong.

I don't care what you think.

 

[MilkyJoe]

This is true. The problem Is the ecosystem and install base for Xbox is dwindling.

We are about to enter the time when 360 sales eclipse the Xbone sales figures in the US year for year and they know this.

On top of that their competitor is about to release a mid gen consol AND VR a year ahead of their mid gen offering. Gaining momentum and traction for a year in the same market as Scorpio.

Being the 'best console' released a year later will be expected. But like you say, may be looked as inconsequential. They need to make some strides in growing their ecosystem, not just keeping what they have or their gaming division will just be left in the dust by their competitors on PC (steam) and console (Sony).

That's probably what they are doing...

 

[anothertech]

That's probably what they are doing...

It's what they SHOULD be doing. But if they are just 'keeping their current ecosystem' it won't be enough.

Phil Spencer "this will be a Premium priced console for 4K display owners mainly"

If this is their messaging for Scorpio (which it is) they are targeting a subset of a subset of gamers. Not promising really for growing the ecosystem.

 

[Sqrt_minus_one]

do we know for sure that scorpio is releasing significantly later than Ps4K though? i thought both were releasing in 2017, but I'm not aware of any time gaps.

yes it was proven that a year headstart does give a headstart for weaker hardware but if you're talking about 360, it was also much simpler hardware than the competition

I thought both of the new consoles were running on the same type of hardware, but with higher specifications? In theory then if the scorpio has overall better specs then isn't it safe to assume that most shit will perform better on it? just like how now most shit performs better on the OG Ps4 vs OG xbone?

which one is supposed to release first? what are the rumored release dates of each?

I don't care what you think.

All anyone knows for sure is that Scorpio will release 2017 according to MS.

For Neo some people expect it late this year but Sony have not confirmed anything.

With MS going for 6TFlops people are speculating that Scorpio will use a bigger SoC and thus be more expensive.

 

[MilkyJoe]

It's what they SHOULD be doing. But if they are just 'keeping their current ecosystem' it won't be enough.

Phil Spencer "this will be a Premium priced console for 4K display owners mainly"

If this is their messaging for Scorpio (which it is) they are targeting a subset of a subset of gamers. Not promising really for growing the ecosystem.

Phil Spencer‏ @XboxP3
@ThatDudeizEric We'll talk more about this later but we never said we'd mandate 4K framebuffer, we won't.

 

[Moreche]

It's amazing how much MS fucked up the Xbox One launch, all of that goodwill and billions spent building the Xbox brand all wasted.

 

[Unknown?]

Well it's a good job exclusives are entirely subjective.

That's not the point. I know there are those who will never be interested in anything Sony has to offer and vice versa but having more games you can't buy on the competing platforms ensures you'll have more people likely to want your system.

So far pushing 3-4 games at the end of the year with PR even the most diehard fans can see through(best lineup in Xbox history), while having a drought for 6-10 months isn't winning people over in droves. If they want
Scorpio to make any splash it will need a killer game to launch with it that isn't available on any other system(minus PC).

 

[W.S.]

I just don't think the organisation is willing to put down the resources necessary to develop the brand on this scale, either. It's not worth it for them and you can tell that they've cared less and less throughout the last 3 years or so (they have no European conference this year at all, just a fan event which is the same as they had for TGS 2015 lol).

You would have a point if the other big 2 (Sony & Nintendo) held conferences but they don't either.

MS probably just doesn't have enough content to make a conference out of so it would make more sense not to do it. Either way fan fest is a decent inroad to make without he benefits of having a conference, it at least gives off a sense of good will and exposure to some of the European market.

 

[Bear Force One]

Please provide me with the information you have on project Scorpio's price.

Let's be more childish. It's obviously going to be more expensive than the sm current model which is doing horribly worldwide outside of the US.

"Premium priced "

 

[Shin-chan]

You would have a point if the other big 2 (Sony & Nintendo) held conferences but they don't either.

MS probably just doesn't have enough content to make a conference out of so it would make more sense not to do it. Either way fan fest is a decent inroad to make without he benefits of having a conference, it at least gives off a sense of good will and exposure to some of the European market.

Jim Ryan mentioned the possibility of a European PSX. They clearly have something in the works.

Nintendo is also much mor global and it's directs are region specific. They also put a lot of work into localisation for EFIGS languages that Microsoft don't. They're also the name that means nothing but video games no matter where you look.

You can argue all you like, but it's an absolute fact that both Sony and Nintendos regional efforts eclipse whatever resources Microsoft puts into them. And they'll continue to invest more since these markets are only growing for Sony (Europe is now the biggest it's ever been as a game market for them) whereas Microsoft is slowly withdrawing from them.

 

[MilkyJoe]

That's not the point. I know there are those who will never be interested in anything Sony has to offer and vice versa but having more games you can't buy on the competing platforms ensures you'll have more people likely to want your system.

So far pushing 3-4 games at the end of the year with PR even the most diehard fans can see through(best lineup in Xbox history), while having a drought for 6-10 months isn't winning people over in droves.

Well neither is being the weaker console with 3rd parties going to sell consoles...

And it's totally the point.

There are far more third party games than exclusives and if you buy a console based on a series or a "killer app" then it outweighs whatever the other team brings to the table. And if it doesn't you go buy another console.

That's really all there is to it.

 

[W.S.]

That's not the point. I know there are those who will never be interested in anything Sony has to offer and vice versa but having more games you can't buy on the competing platforms ensures you'll have more people likely to want your system.

So far pushing 3-4 games at the end of the year with PR even the most diehard fans can see through(best lineup in Xbox history), while having a drought for 6-10 months isn't winning people over in droves. If they want
Scorpio to make any splash it will need a killer game to launch with it that isn't available on any other system(minus PC).

Their issue is that they don't have enough support from Japanese companies to help fill in some of those gaps that Sony has. On top of that it's well known that their owned studios are very lean these days so they still have a way to go.

MS is getting better with indy's though.

 

[W.S.]

Jim Ryan mentioned the possibility of a European PSX. They clearly have something in the works.

Nintendo is also much mor global and it's directs are region specific. They also put a lot of work into localisation for EFIGS languages that Microsoft don't. They're also the name that means nothing but video games no matter where you look.

You can argue all you like, but it's an absolute fact that both Sony and Nintendos regional efforts eclipse whatever resources Microsoft puts into them. And they'll continue to invest more since these markets are only growing for Sony (Europe is now the biggest it's ever been as a game market for them) whereas Microsoft is slowly withdrawing from them.

I'm not arguing the low amount of effort Microsoft's been putting into the European markets, in that I agree with you that they need more work.

I just didn't see any correlation between MS completely giving up the European market and not having a Gamescom conference since again none of the other 2 are having big conferences either so it's all pretty much a wash.

 

[ethomaz]

The big reason PS4 is doing better is a bigger, more varied line up of games.

This play a way more important role than stronger specs.

I remember in 2013 alone PS4 having over double releases than Xbone and the gap just growed over the years... even Metacritic shows a dominant amount of 90+ games for PS4.

 

[ethomaz]

do we know for sure that scorpio is releasing significantly later than Ps4K though? i thought both were releasing in 2017, but I'm not aware of any time gaps.

Sony confirmed Neo for this year.
MS confirmed Scorpio for holiday 2017.

Unless they change the dates... yes we know.

All anyone knows for sure is that Scorpio will release 2017 according to MS.

For Neo some people expect it late this year but Sony have not confirmed anything.

With MS going for 6TFlops people are speculating that Scorpio will use a bigger SoC and thus be more expensive.

MS was clear "holiday 2017".
Sony confirmed Neo for this year in a Famitsu interview some weeks ago.

 

[Shin-chan]

I'm not arguing the low amount of effort Microsoft's been putting into the European markets, in that I agree with you that they need more work.

I just didn't see any correlation between MS completely giving up the European market and not having a Gamescom conference since again none of the other 2 are having big conferences either so it's all pretty much a wash.

Unless you believe they are going to show up elsewhere in a meaningful way their avoidance of GC this year (after a big presence last year) is just symptomatic of their more introverted strategy going forward. It's about focusing on their strong English speaking markets now because for Xbox in Europe the juice isn't worth the squeeze.

Of course it's also a symptom of having nothing to show in a second conference this year, but that's another issue altogether.

 

[tapedeck]

Let's be more childish. It's obviously going to be more expensive than the sm current model which is doing horribly worldwide outside of the US.

"Premium priced "

Nothing childish about asking for information. Let's be clear, you don't know jack shit about what Scorpio will cost and if you claim otherwise there's no reason for me to bother responding further.

Also comparing a launch price to the price of a system out for over 3 years seems a bit odd don't you think..

But fuck it I'll play along, tell me the price you think Scorpio's gonna cost and why that will be considered 'premium' amongst all the others.

 

[Bgamer90]

No I sound like reality. A more expensive Xbox appeals to a smaller subset of Xbox buyers. Not a larger one.

Again, it's all about how a device is viewed. If the more expensive Xbox will be viewed in a similar fashion to a "generational leap" over the original Xbox One then there could possibly be more people who will want to buy it over the original model and not just the "small hardcore subset".

Based on your logic, the PS4 shouldn't be doing better than the PS3 did in America since the former is the better spec, more expensive iteration of the latter. Yet it is thanks to Sony making good changes to the PlayStation brand that have thus made the PS4 more attractive than the PS3 was ever viewed in the same territory.

 

[anothertech]

Phil Spencer‏ @XboxP3
@ThatDudeizEric We'll talk more about this later but we never said we'd mandate 4K framebuffer, we won't.

The former does not preclude the latter. No matter how much you wish it so. MS does not have to mandate a 4K frame buffer to make Scorpio target a 4K subset audience.

 

[anothertech]

Nothing childish about asking for information. Let's be clear, you don't know jack shit about what Scorpio will cost and if you claim otherwise there's no reason for me to bother responding further.

Phil Spencer
"premium priced console"

"Premium priced"

"Premium"

We seem to know somthing at least by the head of Xbox own mouth it seems.

 

[DriftingSpirit]

Well it's a good job exclusives are entirely subjective.

He was speaking about volume and variety. That isn't subjective.

 

[Bgamer90]

The big reason PS4 is doing better is a bigger, more varied line up of games. .

This will fall on deaf ears.

Exclusives haven't helped much this gen. People simply want to play popular games. Most of these games are multiplat. The PS4 being viewed by many as the better and/or more straightforward console to play these games, on top of the PlayStation brand simply being more popular worldwide than Xbox (before this gen even started) has played a far bigger role than game line-up comparisons.

At the end of the day, the majority of console gamers this gen are playing the same exact games regardless of what box they own.

 

[tapedeck]

Phil Spencer
"premium priced console"

"Premium priced"

"Premium"

We seem to know somthing at least by the head of Xbox own mouth it seems.

Lol and that means what exactly?

They JUST announced Xbox One S as a stop-gap option during that interview he can't say the Scorpio will be cheap kinda kills the whole message of the 1S.

I've yet to get a dollar amount of what anyone think Scorpio is gonna cost..

 

[DriftingSpirit]

Exclusives haven't helped much this gen. People simply want to play popular games. Most of these games are multiplat. The PS4 being viewed by many as the better and/or more straightforward console to play these games, on top of the PlayStation brand simply being more popular worldwide than Xbox (before this gen even started) has play a far bigger role than game line-up comparisons. At the end of the day, the majority of console gamers this gen are playing the same exact games regardless of what box they own.

I agree but I think it helps to have a big and varied lineup either way. Having games that appeal to people all around the world can only help you.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

Sony confirmed Neo for this year.
MS confirmed Scorpio for holiday 2017.

Unless they change the dates... yes we know.


MS was clear "holiday 2017".
Sony confirmed Neo for this year in a Famitsu interview some weeks ago.

No they did not.

 

[MilkyJoe]

The former does not preclude the latter. No matter how much you wish it so. MS does not have to mandate a 4K frame buffer to make Scorpio target a 4K subset audience.

You think they are going to market to the minuscule 4K audience only? Wowzers

He was speaking about volume and variety. That isn't subjective.

3rd party is far more varied and numerous.

 

[ethomaz]

No they did not.

They did.

From House mouth...

http://av.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/series/rt/1005343.html

 

[StrongBlackVine]

They did.

Nope. Post link of said confirmation. All they confirmed is that it exists.

 

[ethomaz]

Nope. Post link of said confirmation. All they confirmed is that it exists.

http://av.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/series/rt/1005343.html

House confirmed this year release... sorry... I guessed GAFers knows that because it was posted here.

Edit - if you want a new translation...

http://www.gamercenteronline.net/20...this-year-will-increase-playstations-success/

 

[W.S.]

Unless you believe they are going to show up elsewhere in a meaningful way their avoidance of GC this year (after a big presence last year) is just symptomatic of their more introverted strategy going forward. It's about focusing on their strong English speaking markets now because for Xbox in Europe the juice isn't worth the squeeze.

Of course it's also a symptom of having nothing to show in a second conference this year, but that's another issue altogether.

I doubt Microsoft's going to show much else in Europe outside of whatever they have planned at Gamescom with their fanfest but my point is that Gamescom as a whole is kind of a bust anyway.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

http://av.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/series/rt/1005343.html

House confirmed this year release... sorry... I guessed GAFers knows that because it was posted here.

Edit - if you want a new translation...

http://www.gamercenteronline.net/20...this-year-will-increase-playstations-success/

Maybe I'm blind, but I still didn't see where he confirmed a release in 2016.

 

[Bgamer90]

I agree but I think it helps to have a big and varied lineup either way. Having games that appeal to people all around the world can only help you.

Oh, definitely. Much better than having droughts. I just feel that it doesn't help as much as some here say it does. People are buying consoles for shooters and sports; Not the smaller, more specific titles.

 

[ethomaz]

Maybe I'm blind, but I still didn't see where he confirmed a release in 2016.

"launching NEO is a key part of Sony’s plan for 20 million units sold in 2016." - House

It can't be more clear.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

"launching NEO is a key part of Sony’s plan for 20 million units sold in 2016."

It can't be more clear.

20 million unit forecast is for the fiscal year which ends in 2017.

 

[tapedeck]

"launching NEO is a key part of Sony’s plan for 20 million units sold in 2016." - House

It can't be more clear.

Sony's 2016 fiscal year ends March 31st 2017.

 

[ethomaz]

20 million unit forecast is for the fiscal year which ends in 2017.

If you fell better... 9 months head start lol

BTW Jan-Mar release makes no sense... Sony is going to Oct-Dec.

Sony's 2016 fiscal year ends March 31st 2017.

Minimum 9 months head start

 

[CentralScrutinizer]

It's amazing how much MS fucked up the Xbox One launch, all of that goodwill and billions spent building the Xbox brand all wasted.

Sony did the same thing though with the PS3. A lot of people jumped on the Xbox that gen and then switched to PS4 when MS flopped the message. There's a lot of flip floppers in gaming and I don't think a lot of the PS4 owners are hardcore Sony fans. They just got the PS4 because that was the system to get, much like how the 360 was the system to get ten year ago.

Microsoft might be hoping to get those floppers back with the Scorpio.

 

[anothertech]

You think they are going to market to the minuscule 4K audience only? Wowzers
.

Not what I said. I said they are targeting 4K display owners. Which they are according to all marketing and interviews thus far. That doesn't mean they have to require a 4K frame buffer, or market only to 4K audiences.

It's still a subset of a subset marketing target.

 

[CosmicQueso]

I still expect an October launch for Neo. Shrug.

 

[MilkyJoe]

Not what I said. I said they are targeting 4K display owners. Which they are according to all marketing and interviews thus far. That doesn't mean they have to require a 4K frame buffer, or market only to 4K audiences.

It's still a subset of a subset marketing target.

I said you think they are targeting 4K display owners

And you say this?

 

[anothertech]

I said you think they are targeting 4K display owners

And you say this?

"You think they are going to market to the minuscule 4K audience only?" You said market to 4K audience only. That's different from targeting 4K market.

Also I'm not saying this. Their marketing video and Phils interviews are.

 

[Peterc]

Should xbox be DoOmed?
I don't think so. They survive like they did with the first xbox. But i think xbox like we know is done. We probably see some pcxbox instead with hololens included, that will do way better. I dont think this 4k version would sell good, i think they now. But they have to react on ps4 neo to stay in the race.

 

[therealbigrich]

Sony did the same thing though with the PS3. A lot of people jumped on the Xbox that gen and then switched to PS4 when MS flopped the message. There's a lot of flip floppers in gaming and I don't think a lot of the PS4 owners are hardcore Sony fans. They just got the PS4 because that was the system to get, much like how the 360 was the system to get ten year ago.

Microsoft might be hoping to get those floppers back with the Scorpio.

Makes sense to me. Ppl make it seem like things are impossible but things change all the time.

 

[highrider]

If anyone has business sense at Microsoft they probably know this console generation is not going to be as successful as the previous one due to the horribly botched launch.

They've done all the right things to get consumers back on board, but it's hard to shake an initial bad impression. I'm hoping they do as well as they can because I like xbox and their exclusive games.

 

[Matt]

Well you have no idea what Scorpio will be priced at, assuming anything over $399 is reaching.

No, it's not.

 

[therealbigrich]

The X1 did poorly cause of multiple things at launch. I guess I don't really think it's really still on ppl minds though. If MS releases a good product that looks good and make ppl want it I think they wouldn't have a problem selling. Biggest problem I can for see is the people with a gaming PC already