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[geordiemp]

Ok but at 6gb per second the SSD will burn through that in no time. I get it will use portions of the game and have instant access to them but will it need 6gb of data quickly all the time?

Thats quite funny, do you think the SSD isplaying a movie ?

How many say 32 kb data blocks do you think is loaded in how many nanoseconds in a frame ?

Think before you type.

 

[phil_t98]

Thats quite funny, do you think the SSD isplaying a movie ?

How many say 32 kb data blocks do you think is loaded in how many nanoseconds in a frame ?

Think before you type.

No but what I am saying the game is broke up into chunks, how much data is needed for each part of the game at any one point.

read befor you type

 

[Xplainin]

well I keep asking the question but seem to not get any answers, if games are similar to this gen in size as being predicted and games are around about 100gb plus for a 12 hour game will we need such a fast speed SSD. not trolling PS5 SSD its a genuine question. how much data will be needed any one time? I mean to get full use of the 6GB speed of PS5 how big with the game files be?

This is my question in a thread I posted.
Mark Carney said the PS4/pros RAM held the next 20 seconds of gameplay.
The Pro runs typically 1440P, with usable 5.5gbs of RAM. The PS5 will run double the assets to 4k, but will have 13.5gbs of RAM.
Say the RAM on the PS5 can only run the next 10 seconds of gameplay, and it would not be less, otherwise you are going to run into issues, and thats the exact reason for having RAM, then the PS5 SSD could load the RAM every 3 seconds, and the XSX every 6 seconds. That's not accounting for compressed speeds either.

I would like to hear from a real dev who can put some figures on it.

 

[Jtibh]

At this point if you are buying the xsx you are dating down.
Respect yourself. Get a ps5.

 

[Sid Of Bee]

My guess is that third parties will utilize the PS5's custom SSD as much as they utilized the PS4's touchpad.

 

[DoctaThompson]

No but what I am saying the game is broke up into chunks, how much data is needed for each part of the game at any one point.

read befor you type

Great question. Some are so confident in claiming to know the exact file sizes and bandwidth needed for next gen games, yet never explicitly state them. I'm curious to know as well.

 

[phil_t98]

Great question. Some are so confident in claiming to know the exact file sizes and bandwidth needed for next gen games, yet never explicitly state them. I'm curious to know as well.

yeah am genuinely curious to how this is going to work, don’t get me wrong the speed of the SSD is awesome but how much is needed when it’s a game of 100-200gb at a time. As fast as the SSD is no specs have been said about average game data streaming to the gpu

 

[SirTerry-T]

I absolutely do.... you need artists and time to create assets for each LOD, unless you somehow have a way around it, such as the solution in the Unreal demo.

If you have something to say that contradicts me or proves you know more, then say....

LODS are really not a time consuming tasks from a development point of view, at least on the art side. Most 3D packages will have a tool to create them with a few settings entered and a button press.
Then it's just a case of exporting them and hooking them up in code.
It's an extra process, sure, but we aren't talking weeks or months of extra dev time.

 

[jimbojim]

My guess is that third parties will utilize the PS5's custom SSD as much as they utilized the PS4's touchpad.

Thing is, touchpad wasn't mandatory for game development on PS4. If it was there, good. If wasn't, nobody complain. But SSD for game development on PS5 is. It's part of the API. And 5.5 GB/s is available immediately for devs. It's right there. And it can't be avoided.

 

[phil_t98]

Thing is, touchpad wasn't mandatory for game development on PS4. If it was there, good. If wasn't, nobody complain. But SSD for game development on PS5 is. It's part of the API. And 5.5 GB/s is available immediately for devs. It's right there. And it can't be avoided.

well if you read the quotes about the epic engine that had to engineer the mo more to utilise the fast speed so it seems that you will have to build the game for it

 

[Three]

I am just making this up – maybe there are elevators in the Xbox Series X version and not on the [PS5] version.
I don’t know yet how they’re gonna address it, but they’ll learn to address it and they will figure out ways to work around it.

WTF did he actually say this?

 

[Panajev2001a]

LODS are really not a time consuming tasks from a development point of view, at least on the art side. Most 3D packages will have a tool to create them with a few settings entered and a button press.
Then it's just a case of exporting them and hooking them up in code.
It's an extra process, sure, but we aren't talking weeks or months of extra dev time.

No, but per model we are also talking about creating more texture layers to add back the detail you lost from the million polys model to the decimated one and I have heard rarely people working with these tools taking the automatically generated output as is and not cleaning it up/checking/and correcting manually afterwards, but I guess it depends on who you ask, and that is per model (hence why both the developer and the Epic artist both made a point about it when showing the demo video).

 

[eastwood333]

Loading times eh? I still think that's one of the few areas where multiplats will be a bit better on PS5. I think we're talking about mere seconds here. I can envision the average multiplate PS5 game loading an area in 2-8 seconds while XSX loads the same area in 8-15 seconds. I'm guessing something in those lines?

That is not going to be a selling point for multiplates if those same games are haveing better resolution,framerates,ray tracing etc..on the competitor's platform.


I don't think we're getting any games that would require elevator type loading on PS5/XSX or any PC that uses a modern SSD.

 

[JustP_Gaming]

I feel that developers will use very high quality assets on ps5, because they easily can, due to the extremely high speed of it's ssd, and maybe these assets will be of a lower quality on sex. But other than that I don't think that there would be much differences in games on both systems. Maybe sex will have better framerate and resolution but I don't think it would be too extreme.

Everyone fails to consider the RT cores. MS has been quiet cause when they show it off it will speak for itself.

 

[Three]

Ok but at 6gb per second the SSD will burn through that in no time. I get it will use portions of the game and have instant access to them but will it need 6gb of data quickly all the time?

The latency is more important than the bandwidth I think but that bandwidth can be used for other background things. Video recording, stream buffer, downloads.

 

[jimbojim]

well if you read the quotes about the epic engine that had to engineer the mo more to utilise the fast speed so it seems that you will have to build the game for it

Well, Epic surely started development on UE5 even before the first PS5 devkits were out. That's why they had needed to rewrite the code when they got firts PS5 devkits. I don't see any other reason.

 

[Craig of War]

All this talk from ex devs are still just all smoke and no fire i will have to see both games from the same devs running on both system for me to believe so we will have to wait at least til november december to see first hand action.

 

[eastwood333]

Everyone fails to consider the RT cores. MS has been quiet cause when they show it off it will speak for itself.

I still think MS will do a nice last minute upclock or something else in those lines.

 

[eastwood333]

Thing is, touchpad wasn't mandatory for game development on PS4. If it was there, good. If wasn't, nobody complain. But SSD for game development on PS5 is. It's part of the API. And 5.5 GB/s is available immediately for devs. It's right there. And it can't be avoided.

But they have other platforms to think about :/

 

[Bryank75]

But they have other platforms to think about :/

Nahhh hahaha

 

[eastwood333]

Everyone fails to consider the RT cores. MS has been quiet cause when they show it off it will speak for itself.

If done well, Ray Tracing is the kind of thing that will make a night and day difference. It can completely change the look of a game

 

[JustP_Gaming]

If done well, Ray Tracing is the kind of thing that will make a night and day difference. It can completely change the look of a game

Agreed 100%

 

[jimbojim]

But they have other platforms to think about :/

Naaah. Every game will be PS5 exclusive.

 

[jimbojim]

Everyone fails to consider the RT cores. MS has been quiet cause when they show it off it will speak for itself.

We saw the Minecraft demo. And yes, RT is good, but it's still really power hungry

 

[eastwood333]

We saw the Minecraft demo. And yes, RT is good, but it's still really power hungry

Most games won't be a 100% ray tracing. It will be used sparingly were it can be the most effective in combination with baked,global illumination etc... I assume

 

[Kumomeme]

maybe they can lower the asset quality for certain scene?

but this is assuming 3rd party devs utilize ps5 ssd properly...i guess they would developed as xsx's ssd as the baseline

 

[JustP_Gaming]

We saw the Minecraft demo. And yes, RT is good, but it's still really power hungry

You understand separate for XSX 12tf they have an RT core that handles equivalent to 13tf. Pure power.

 

[Portugeezer]

"Address"? I read "not bother".

What if they lower XSX assets so they are half the size, thereby compensating for the lack of speed.

 

[bitbydeath]

This is my question in a thread I posted.
Mark Carney said the PS4/pros RAM held the next 20 seconds of gameplay.
The Pro runs typically 1440P, with usable 5.5gbs of RAM. The PS5 will run double the assets to 4k, but will have 13.5gbs of RAM.
Say the RAM on the PS5 can only run the next 10 seconds of gameplay, and it would not be less, otherwise you are going to run into issues, and thats the exact reason for having RAM, then the PS5 SSD could load the RAM every 3 seconds, and the XSX every 6 seconds. That's not accounting for compressed speeds either.

I would like to hear from a real dev who can put some figures on it.

Every second.

 

[jakinov]

Coming from the PlayStation customer perspective... the biggest games will want to sell everywhere so I don't expect major deviations in game design.

However games that sell much more historically on PlayStation... Japanese games, Souls, some Capcom games etc etc may decide just to go to PS5 cause they are not giving up much sales, it lets them follow their vision more closely and sales are being diminished on Xbox by Gamepass.

Gamepass is basically cheap entertainment that results in people saying 'I have plenty of games to play' so they don't buy comparatively expensive new releases. Once it becomes a bigger trend on the platform, MS may compensate more to developers to keep them coming to the platform but you can't stop a flowing river, eventually they will have to decide to not pay some developers and forgo releases. That is what I believe the reality of their approach means.

I think the major Capcom games still sell well on Xbox. Japanese developers are also using a lot of western engines (more specifically Unreal) that help make cross-platform development easier and in turn less expensive. Also, I'm going to assume, that the business people at these companies are going to rather get the extra revenue then let developers follow their vision. Also, like the dev mentions, they can probably work around these scenarios that are optimal for the PS5's SSD. It can be as simple as just loading lower res or quality textures (temporarily) on the Xbox for a slightly less immersive experience. Yes there would be a tiny bit of extra work, but software development in general you might have to spend a bit of extra time on one platform over another because of different language, runtime, APIs or tools available. Some devs dropped the PS3 in favor of 360 only not because of a little extra work, but because they had to do a lot of extra work.

 

[Sid Of Bee]

The differences in these consoles are going to come down to first party experiences people....

 

[Xplainin]

Every second.

That must lack some context.
If The 13.5gb (excluding system RAM) of RAM only holds 1 second of gameplay, then the PS5 SSD won't be able to keep up and would stutter and freeze every few seconds until the RAM filled, and secondly, if the game is using 13.5gb of data every second, the PS5s entire SSD storage will be used in about 1 minute.

 

[Die Namek Ability]

You understand separate for XSX 12tf they have an RT core that handles equivalent to 13tf. Pure power.

It must be so tough for you that the weak little 10.28 TF console is being being held back by the "pure power" all mighty 25 TFlop wonder!

 

[JustP_Gaming]

It must be so tough for you that the weak little 10.28 TF console is being being held back by the "pure power" all mighty 25 TFlop wonder!

Not tough at all lol . I have a life outside of the internet

 

[Die Namek Ability]

Not tough at all lol . I have a life outside of the internet

We can tell......

 

[JustP_Gaming]

We can tell......

Im so glad.

 

[HarryKS]

The power issue is a non-issue when it comes to mass appeal games. The Xbox won't see any advantage over the PS5 for the Fifa 202x, Madden 202x and GTAs of this world.
Same on the PS5. Might have slightly faster load times though. That's about it.

 

[MarcCppDev]

They will just not use the full speed of the PS5 SSD. That's the solution that costs the least and that's how businesses work.

This ! Using full speed PS5 SSD for 3rd parties wont work as long as PCs dont have similar tech on the market

 

[MarcCppDev]

Everyone fails to consider the RT cores. MS has been quiet cause when they show it off it will speak for itself.

I would say more like DirectMl is MSFT secret weapon

 

[PistolGrip]

No but what I am saying the game is broke up into chunks, how much data is needed for each part of the game at any one point.

read befor you type

You make logical points that are intuitive but are not quite right. There are two things to consider,

* The data on disk is compressed
* RAM is limited

Imagine loading 14GB of a world uncompressed to RAM. Now as you interact with the world you need to keep loading resources because more "things" can happen. The speed at which you load those resources can determine how dynamic your game is. I cant have you do an action in a game that will cause me to load data I don't have in RAM so I limit what can happen. However if I can get resources in a second, everything changes. I no longer have to bound you as a player to just a few pathways. It's hard to think about what is possible because game designers have never had to think in this way, but we will see some incredible innovation even at the Series X level.

 

[Naru]

All the talk about PS5 and XBSX loading but there is also PC. I don't think there will be much change in terms of game design. You will just have faster loading screens etc. or the elevators on the PS5 will just be extremely fast... Even if you make use of it on PS5 exclusives, what if you will port it to PC later? Like Horizon and Bloodborne?

 

[Naddy]

My guess is that third parties will utilize the PS5's custom SSD as much as they utilized the PS4's touchpad.

to be fair, making use of the PS5 SSD will be much more expensive than making use of the touchpad.

 

[Kagey K]

How will devs address the Sony shortcomings?

Why is everyone trying to make this a one way street?

 

[geordiemp]

Ok but at 6gb per second the SSD will burn through that in no time. I get it will use portions of the game and have instant access to them but will it need 6gb of data quickly all the time?

Your suggesting that at 6gbs the SSD will use up all the data on the disk, that is mis understanding and trying your best to suggest fast SSD is not needed.

If your character looks at a house, ps5 can load that house in time takes to turn, its about IO latency and file latency as much as te headline SSD rate.

If you charcter then turns around to look at a tank, that tank can be loaded in very high detai and the house is no longer in RAM.

Your character spins around again, house appears again. You are not burning through data, that is funny.

That is keeping less data in memory and as such you can have mega assets in game.

Other platforms would LIKELY have to preload the tank and the house and keep them in RAM.

That is the potential difference, Ps5 can go crazy with detail, others would struggle with RAM and need to reload more and more..

 

[Ar¢tos]

They can always slightly reduce movement speed to compensate for the slower ssd, but I think this falls into "lazy dev" playbook.

 

[turtlepowa]

They will just not use the full speed of the PS5 SSD. That's the solution that costs the least and that's how businesses work.

This. That's why nobody used the DS4 touchpad or internal speaker.

 

[Optimistic Gamer]

So the statement basically is "Developers are not stupid and will work within their limitations"? Great thread.

Love the idea of .5 second elevator rides every time you move to quickly on the XsX.

 

[bitbydeath]

That must lack some context.
If The 13.5gb (excluding system RAM) of RAM only holds 1 second of gameplay, then the PS5 SSD won't be able to keep up and would stutter and freeze every few seconds until the RAM filled, and secondly, if the game is using 13.5gb of data every second, the PS5s entire SSD storage will be used in about 1 minute.

Why do you think it won’t keep up?

PS5 literal streams every second of content as it happens, that’s how they’ve removed load times.

It’s all explained in the road to PS5.

 

[Fuz]

They will just not use the full speed of the PS5 SSD. That's the solution that costs the least and that's how businesses work.

Sadly, this is how it works.

 

[phil_t98]

Your suggesting that at 6gbs the SSD will use up all the data on the disk, that is mis understanding and trying your best to suggest fast SSD is not needed.

If your character looks at a house, ps5 can load that house in time takes to turn, its about IO latency and file latency as much as te headline SSD rate.

If you charcter then turns around to look at a tank, that tank can be loaded in very high detai and the house is no longer in RAM.

Your character spins around again, house appears again. You are not burning through data, that is funny.

That is keeping less data in memory and as such you can have mega assets in game.

Other platforms would LIKELY have to preload the tank and the house and keep them in RAM.

That is the potential difference, Ps5 can go crazy with detail, others would struggle with RAM and need to reload more and more..

But how much data is needed for that to exactly happen. That’s my point. In 100gb game turning around is not gonna be a lot, then turning back won’t be a lot of data. I honestly think load times will be the biggest thing the SSD does. Obvs LOD won’t be a thing any more