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[Gemüsepizza]

I'm still puzzled as to how people actually think a company will make the mistake of again launching at $500.

1. Inflation.

2. PS3 was $599 at first.

3. Price was not the only factor which contributed to the lack of success.

4. There will probably two SKUs, one basic unit and a premium one.

So yeah, I think it is absolutely possible that we will see a premium SKU with a $500 price tag.

 

[Raistlin]

If Sony doesn't set themselves apart with hardware or software (which they have trouble doing) they are putting themselves at a disadvantage by removing their PSN catalog of games.

But who says the PSN catalog will definitely go away even without CELL?

• PSX, PSP, and probably even PS2 titles will be emulated

• Mini's and PS Suite are virtual machines ... they will have a VM developed for the new architecture

The part that gets fuzzy though are PSN (non-disc) titles. What I'm not aware of is how many use PhyreEngine. If it's most (or is it all? ... are you allowed to code to the metal for PSN-only titles) ... then I expect they'll work. The engine will get ported to PS4. That's the point of using an API. It's to avoid using HW specific calls that would force emulation or actual recoding of game code.

So the question is, what portion of the PSN-only content is using PhyreEngine or some similar API that was meant for portability? If it's most or all ... we're cool. Obviously that said, PS3 titles bought over PSN are hosed unless this system has true BC (which seems to be no).

1. Inflation.

2. PS3 was $599 at first.

3. Price was not the only factor which contributed to the lack of success.

4. There will probably two SKUs, one basic unit and a premium one.

So yeah, I think it is absolutely possible that we will see a premium SKU with a $500 price tag.

Given how PS3 sold vs 360 up until recently, I think it's pretty easy to argue that #3 (price) actually was its biggest issue early on. Instead of tracking it in sales, it would have likely leapfrogged it. It was selling as many (actually more) units with $100+ higher price for years.


Also #2 and #4 make no sense. PS3 had two launch SKU's, and the lower priced one was $499. Where you asleep during the launch period or something?

 

[Gemüsepizza]

You can't just look at the price alone. You have to look at what you are getting for that price - and the PS3 lacked good games and (really) superior graphics compared to the Xbox at that time. From a gamer's perspective, it did not seem to be a good deal. But if you fix these points, people won't complain as much about the price anymore.

PS: In Europe there was only one SKU for 599 €, that's why I got this wrong.

 

[i-Lo]

So the question, how much are you willing to pay for a next gen system at launch?

It's a new piece of hardware packing new tech and features. Personally, I have no issues putting up $500 for a console. Simply put, people love to expect big things with regards to power but then whine, moan and bitch about the price. A console like PS4 or XB3 will not be replaced for at least the next half a decade. Taking into account the inflation and a reduction in $100 at launch from previous gen seems very reasonable.

I am sick of people bitching about the price simply because some of them either can't afford to or aren't willing buy the console at launch price and yet feel a sense of entitlement of a lower price to get it. One word: Wait.

 

[Marco1]

Exactly, if you're going to charge me £425 for a console make bloody well sure that the games I purchase for it look and play like something I have not experienced before.
Sorry Sony but godfather, motorstorm and resistance didn't do that.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

Also #2 and #4 make no sense. PS3 had two launch SKU's, and the lower priced one was $499. Where you asleep during the launch period or something?

Every region was different. Japan sold the 20 gig for over a year where as Europe never saw that version and was only offered the 60 gig.

 

[phosphor112]

But who says the PSN catalog will definitely go away even without CELL?

• PSX, PSP, and probably even PS2 titles will be emulated

• Mini's and PS Suite are virtual machines ... they will have a VM developed for the new architecture

The part that gets fuzzy though are PSN (non-disc) titles. What I'm not aware of is how many use PhyreEngine. If it's most (or is it all? ... are you allowed to code to the metal for PSN-only titles) ... then I expect they'll work. The engine will get ported to PS4. That's the point of using an API. It's to avoid using HW specific calls that would force emulation or actual recoding of game code.

So the question is, what portion of the PSN-only content is using PhyreEngine or some similar API that was meant for portability? If it's most or all ... we're cool. Obviously that said, PS3 titles bought over PSN are hosed unless this system has true BC (which seems to be no).

Of course those very old titles can run...
PS Suite is something I've mentioned before.
Also, only a few games use Phyre Engine. Dark/Demon's Souls, flower, Journey and a few others.

 

[bangai-o]

If both rumours today are correct, sounds like the second half of 2013 is going to be mental.

can neogaf handle it?

 

[Valnen]

Doesn't matter if the system ends up being considerably weaker as rumors have suggested. System will still be worthless if it can't be in a similar ballpark as the xbox 720 in power.

I'm hoping the pastebin BS was just that though, BS.

 

[FLEABttn]

Inflation as an excuse doesn't change price ceiling perceptions of consumers until dropping $500 or $600 on a console feels like dropping $200 or $300 does currently.

Doesn't matter if the system ends up being considerably weaker as rumors have suggested. System will still be worthless if it can't be in a similar ballpark as the xbox 720 in power.

I'm hoping the pastebin BS was just that though, BS.

Realistically, even if it's true, publishers can't ignore the PS4 unless the 720 sells like the PS2 did. If console sales splits are similar to this gen, the PS4 will still get all the third party games the 720 does, they'll just look nicer on the 720.

 

[Goldrusher]

What's the earliest we can expect it? Taking into account production lines and all?

Christmas 2012 an option? Or is that too soon?

Imagine Christmas 2012 with GTAV as an exclusive launch title.
Rockstar still owes Sony something big.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

What's the earliest we can expect it? Taking into account production lines and all?

Christmas 2012 an option? Or is that too soon?

Imagine Christmas 2012 with GTAV as an exclusive launch title.
Rockstar still owes Sony something big.

It won't be out this year
GTAV won't be exclusive to any platform

 

[Valnen]

Realistically, even if it's true, publishers can't ignore the PS4 unless the 720 sells like the PS2 did. If console sales splits are similar to this gen, the PS4 will still get all the third party games the 720 does, they'll just look nicer on the 720.

I'm not sure I believe this. The wii sold very well and was passed up for most multi-platform games. I don't see why the PS4 would be any different if it ends up being similarly inferior.

 

[Raistlin]

Of course those very old titles can run...
PS Suite is something I've mentioned before.
Also, only a few games use Phyre Engine. Dark/Demon's Souls, flower, Journey and a few others.

Do you know what's used for non-disc PSN titles? Are they just coded 'to the metal' or is there some sort of higher-level API they're using?

 

[BakedPigeon]

Sony exec says ps4 is not even a though process right now or in the immediate future. Then you have stories like this. Goddamn fucking liars the bunch of ya.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

I'm not sure I believe this. The wii sold very well and was passed up for most multi-platform games. I don't see why the PS4 would be any different if it ends up being similarly inferior.

The difference being that the PS4 would be in the middle just like the 360 was this gen. It will be more powerful than the Wii U but less powerful than the next Xbox. A pretty good position to be in.

 

[grumble]

Sony exec says ps4 is not even a though process right now or in the immediate future. Then you have stories like this. Goddamn fucking liars the bunch of ya.

That'd be insane. The PS4 is definitely being looked at, maybe not for 2012 or 2013 but definitely by 2014.

 

[H_Prestige]

Sony exec says ps4 is not even a though process right now or in the immediate future. Then you have stories like this. Goddamn fucking liars the bunch of ya.

Sony is never going to say they are working on ps4 until the day they reveal it, this is just basic business.

 

[BakedPigeon]

Sony is never going to say they are working on ps4 until the day they reveal it, this is just basic business.

Ya, its called "we do not comment on rumors or speculation".

 

[phosphor112]

Do you know what's used for non-disc PSN titles? Are they just coded 'to the metal' or is there some sort of higher-level API they're using?

I couldn't even tell you man.

 

[H_Prestige]

Ya, its called "we do not comment on rumors or speculation".

They can outright deny it too. PR people aren't under oath. They can say whatever they want.

 

[coldfoot]

The N64 expansion pak was a $30 accessory which simply plugged into an N64 and was bundled with Donkey Kong 64 in the USA.

Getting a second PS4 is not like getting an accessory. It does not require any selling from the console maker part, nor does it require any additional R&D and a product run, since they're already selling the consoles.

Buying a second console to SLI with is unrealistic not only due to cost to the consumer, but cost to the developer to implement such a thing, as well as the implications of space required near a TV to do this.

Many people have space near their TV for their STB, 1 or more consoles, a media streamer, a DVD/Blu-ray players, etc. This would not be a problem. Supporting it also could be made very easy by just having a checkbox in the build tool options. Hell, I'd buy it if all it did was to increase 30fps -> 60 fps in all 30 fps games.

 

[Souldriver]

All these news/rumors about next gen is making me excited.

I want to fast forward 2 years to take a peek at how everything turns out.

 

[FLEABttn]

I'm not sure I believe this. The wii sold very well and was passed up for most multi-platform games. I don't see why the PS4 would be any different if it ends up being similarly inferior.

Wii was ignored because all the build up for this gen assumed hardware power around a 360 or PS3 as a baseline. There was no good way to port down. Expectations for next gen are different.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

Wii was ignored because all the build up for this gen assumed hardware power around a 360 or PS3 as a baseline. There was no good way to port down. Expectations for next gen are different.

Not only would devs need to port down graphically but port down the controls and remove all online. Just wasn't worth it for what sales they would get.

 

[Raistlin]

I couldn't even tell you man.

I only bring it up because the answer to that question will go a long way in telling us whether there's any chance PSN titles will carry over.

 

[MuddyDonut]

Cannot wait to watch the next gen console wars, I am excited!

 

[Respawn]

Things are heating up!

Hell yes *rubs hands like a hungry fly vigorously*

wich R&D ?

just have to duct tape a couple of ps3, it should be able to overtake WiiU without much effort

Going by that last WiiU thread you can save the duct tape.

 

[Violater]

Would pay $499 if they have a great launch lineup.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

Cannot wait to watch the next gen console wars, I am excited!

Now that third party exclusives are dead and there is not a predetermined winner and loser this time around before the gen even starts. Every company is starting on equal footing and I feel less people will be multi-console owners so it should be interesting to say the least.

 

[alphaNoid]

If Sony released earlier, I could perhaps start to believe those rumors that the PS4 was severely underpowered when compared to the next Xbox. If Sony is targeting a 2012 release, the hardware they could fit in on budget wouldn't be 'bleeding edge' by definition.

Time will tell, so many rumors. I look forward to going to E3 again this year, can't wait to get my grubby hands on anything.

 

[Rhindle]

Sony was most likely assuming that Xbox720 would not be out until 2014. Until recently that's been Microsoft's timeline, but they now seem to have moved it up to holiday 2013.

So Sony was looking to get a system out as early and cheaply as possibly, and banking on the first mover advantage. As it stands now, they'll be scrambling to get even a couple of months lead on MS - and the result could very well be a half-baked launch lineup that doesn't impress anyone.

 

[HocusPocus]

If Sony released earlier, I could perhaps start to believe those rumors that the PS4 was severely underpowered when compared to the next Xbox. If Sony is targeting a 2012 release, the hardware they could fit in on budget wouldn't be 'bleeding edge' by definition.

Time will tell, so many rumors. I look forward to going to E3 again this year, can't wait to get my grubby hands on anything.

Yep I could see it. Sony always seems to play the wrong hand lately on hardware. They feel that getting a month head start is the best choice, regardless of performance. They are also bleeding debt right now so they have to have PS4 making money quickly. All the work they did on Cell out the window with the x86 chips. What a disastrous generation from the bottom line at Sony. That can't be repeated.

 

[Pinzer]

Yep I could see it. Sony always seems to play the wrong hand lately on hardware. They feel that getting a month head start is the best choice, regardless of performance. They are also bleeding debt right now so they have to have PS4 making money quickly. All the work they did on Cell out the window with the x86 chips. What a disastrous generation from the bottom line at Sony. That can't be repeated.

PS3 is making a ton of money right now and will make even more once it's dropped to $199 later this year. They aren't going to mess that up by releasing prematurely. Kaz understands the importance of the PlayStation brand and is not about to tarnish it trying to squeeze a few more dollars out by releasing early. Additionally, they are also trying to push Vita this year. PS4 is not coming out this year.

 

[SlickShoesRUCrazy]

let the 8th generation console wars begin?

 

[phosphor112]

I only bring it up because the answer to that question will go a long way in telling us whether there's any chance PSN titles will carry over.

Looking way back (05-06) you can see PSGL (playstation graphics library)...which contains CG and OpenGL ES.

http://www.research.scea.com/gdc2006/GLESTutorial07_Arnaud_Remi_PSGL.pdf

That's all I can find.

 

[Allonym]

While everyone is concerned with Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft, Apple will announce the iCon (iConsole) at E3 and it will be ready for a 2013 holiday launch sporting a AMD New Zealand GPU and retail for $600. Haha just kidding but you have to admit the double entendre of the name iCon is pretty cool and I'm it would still sell stupidly in the US. The power of Apple over here is insane! Sorry to go off-topic just thought I'd spice up the thread since this is just another avenue for speculation.

 

[bigtroyjon]

While everyone is concerned with Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft, Apple will announce the iCon (iConsole) at E3 and it will be ready for a 2013 holiday launch sporting a AMD New Zealand GPU and retail for $600. Haha just kidding but you have to admit the double entendre of the name iCon is pretty cool and I'm it would still sell stupidly in the US. The power of Apple over here is insane! Sorry to go off-topic just thought I'd spice up the thread since this is just another avenue for speculation.

Are you on drugs right now?

 

[Allonym]

Are you on drugs right now?

Lol I try to stay away from drugs sir. I just wanted to see how people would react if Apple were serious about entering the console market and if they'd have a shot of stealing significant marketshare globally and not just in the US. But please carry on with the speculation that's conflicting with other rumors and stuff Sony themselves have said

 

[rdrr gnr]

let the 8th generation console wars begin?

If that was a subtle Hunger games reference, thank you.

 

[subversus]

I'm going to throw it here because it doesn't need another rumour thread.

The guy has been working in the industry for like 10 years or more, worked for 1C and other pubs and he just wrote in his blog that one of his industry acquaitances told him that Orbis is based on Cell and Kepler.

http://galyonkin.com/2012/04/03/govoryat-chto-ps4-budet-na-cell-i-nvidia-kepler/

well, whatever. Taking the recent news into account I'm sure that next-gen twins will be beasts. Every rumour points to that.

Spoiler

also it can be a social engineering.

 

[iKeepPlaying]

I'm going to throw it here because it doesn't need another rumour thread.

The guy has been working in the industry for like 10 years or more, worked for 1C and other pubs and he just wrote in his blog that one of his industry acquaitances told him that Orbis is based on Cell and Kepler.

http://galyonkin.com/2012/04/03/govoryat-chto-ps4-budet-na-cell-i-nvidia-kepler/

well, whatever. Taking the recent news into account I'm sure that next-gen twins will be beasts. Every rumour points to that.

Spoiler

also it can be a social engineering.

Please use Cell, please use Cell, please use Cell.

Spoiler

I'm worried about BC

 

[Chuck Norris]

The sad thing is Apple could release a $600 console and people wouldn't blink, they'd call it a bargain.

 

[iKeepPlaying]

The sad thing is Apple could release a $600 console and people wouldn't blink, they'd call it a bargain.

Are you sad because of people stupidity?
Boy, you must be the most sad person in the world.

 

[SmokedMeat]

So the question, how much are you willing to pay for a next gen system at launch?

It's a new piece of hardware packing new tech and features. Personally, I have no issues putting up $500 for a console. Simply put, people love to expect big things with regards to power but then whine, moan and bitch about the price. A console like PS4 or XB3 will not be replaced for at least the next half a decade. Taking into account the inflation and a reduction in $100 at launch from previous gen seems very reasonable.

I am sick of people bitching about the price simply because some of them either can't afford to or aren't willing buy the console at launch price and yet feel a sense of entitlement of a lower price to get it. One word: Wait.

Every generation of new hardware packed new tech and features, and the price was always reasonable.

Other companies like 3DO and SNK tried to push out systems with ultra premium prices and failed. Sony struggled with $500-$600 premium price points as unsold systems collected dust. Hoping for a modestly priced console is now entitlement? Give me a fucking break. Some people live in the real world and have bills to pay. A $500 gaming console is a stupid move, and will only allow the competition to breeze by, with their cheaper priced offerings.

 

[phosphor112]

I'm going to throw it here because it doesn't need another rumour thread.

The guy has been working in the industry for like 10 years or more, worked for 1C and other pubs and he just wrote in his blog that one of his industry acquaitances told him that Orbis is based on Cell and Kepler.

http://galyonkin.com/2012/04/03/govoryat-chto-ps4-budet-na-cell-i-nvidia-kepler/

well, whatever. Taking the recent news into account I'm sure that next-gen twins will be beasts. Every rumour points to that.

Spoiler

also it can be a social engineering.

Cell and Keplar? Good God.

 

[ScrabbleBanshee]

Sony took too long and they have lost me back to the PC. That $500 PS4 money is going to GTX 680 very soon.

Also anybody saying "kepler" in PS4 does not mean GK104 or GK110... it can mean anything way down to the bottom of the barrel design and "kepler" doesn't have to mean high performance (relative to top PC hardware).

That being said, PC gaming needs to stretch its legs and it needs powerful consoles these days to do so (unfortunately).

 

[Proelite]

I'm going to throw it here because it doesn't need another rumour thread.

The guy has been working in the industry for like 10 years or more, worked for 1C and other pubs and he just wrote in his blog that one of his industry acquaitances told him that Orbis is based on Cell and Kepler.

http://galyonkin.com/2012/04/03/govoryat-chto-ps4-budet-na-cell-i-nvidia-kepler/

well, whatever. Taking the recent news into account I'm sure that next-gen twins will be beasts. Every rumour points to that.

Spoiler

also it can be a social engineering.

The past posts in his blog doesn't really lend to his credibility.

 

[phosphor112]

Sony took too long and they have lost me back to the PC. That $500 PS4 money is going to GTX 680 very soon.

Also anybody saying "kepler" in PS4 does not mean GK104 or GK110... it can mean anything way down to the bottom of the barrel design and "kepler" doesn't have to mean high performance (relative to top PC hardware).

That being said, PC gaming needs to stretch its legs and it needs powerful consoles these days to do so (unfortunately).

Wrongs wrong with wanting an efficient design? =P

 

[subversus]

The past posts in his blog doesn't really lend to his credibility.

which past posts?