Support NeoGAF

[gaming_noob]

Wasn't there an article about how Epic convinced Microsoft to upgrade from 256Mb to 512Mb and it ended up being a one billion dollar cost? How do you suppose Sony can convince management for this type of investment considering their position?

 

[AgentP]

Wasn't there an article about how Epic convinced Microsoft to upgrade from 256Mb to 512Mb and it ended up being a one billion dollar cost? How do you suppose Sony can convince management for this type of investment considering their position?

They don't? Being the most expensive console to make is not a great thing. Having the best hardware does not sell consoles.

 

[abracadaver]

And yes Kinect will be packaged in.

I don't believe this. It would be stupid to sell it with every console. Unless there is a 399$ SKU without kinect and a 499$ SKU with Kinect.

 

[DieH@rd]

Wasn't there an article about how Epic convinced Microsoft to upgrade from 256Mb to 512Mb and it ended up being a one billion dollar cost? How do you suppose Sony can convince management for this type of investment considering their position?

That additional 256mb of gddr ram costed MS average of $20 bucks over the lifetime of x360. After ~50mil sold consoles that puts it around 1 billion. [of course, there was a big initial investment of craming that additional ram into console, and fast]

Well spent money [but rushing of x360 to the market costed them another $1 billion+]

 

[Plinko]

I don't believe this. It would be stupid to sell it with every console. Unless there is a 399$ SKU without kinect and a 499$ SKU with Kinect.

No, it wouldn't.

Microsoft WANTS Kinect in every possible home.

 

[DragonSworne]

If Kinect came with my console I would buy games for it.

Right now I don't see the worth in a standalone unit. If it remains standalone, I don't see any long term success.

 

[Picobrain]

Well one thing is for sure, xbox3 will have better graphics than xbox360, thats good enough for me.

 

[abracadaver]

No, it wouldn't.

Microsoft WANTS Kinect in every possible home.

But not every home wants kinect. And by 2013 there will be 20 million kinect users. How do you explain them that the xbox3 comes with another kinect ? They already bought it and dont need another one.

 

[Raistlin]

No, it wouldn't.

Microsoft WANTS Kinect in every possible home.

Yep, it's not just about gaming ... it's about alternative revenue streams from services. They want to make a standout interface in order to get people to user their offerings more often than not.

 

[Globox_82]

He could be trolling us

most definitely

 

[i-Lo]

He could be trolling us

 

[Doffen]

But not every home wants kinect. And by 2013 there will be 20 million kinect users. How do you explain them that the xbox3 comes with another kinect ? They already bought it and dont need another one.

And those 20 million will also have an Xbox 360. And more than 20% of them bought that console in the past 6 months. Now what is your point? Do you want Microsoft to stop selling Xbox 360 a full year before they start selling the next Xbox?

 

[Mrbob]

I'd actually be happy if I could use my current 360 controller with the next Xbox. I wonder where this fits though within the tablet controller rumor.

 

[abracadaver]

And those 20 million will also have an Xbox 360. And more than 20% of them bought that console in the past 6 months. Now what is your point? Do you want Microsoft to stop selling Xbox 360 a full year before they start selling the next Xbox?

No I just don't want them to add additional cost to the console by packing in kinect. I already have kinect I don't need another one.

 

[HocusPocus]

But judging from what I've read and been told, MS are really going for it this gen. They know that if they really push it Sony can't compete (financially)

Yep.

 

[Mrbob]

No I just don't want them to add additional cost to the console by packing in kinect. I already have kinect I don't need another one.

Yup, and I flat out don't want Kinect at all. It sure won't be included for free in the new device. Let me save 100 bucks off the cost of the console without it.

 

[KageMaru]

Isn't GDDR5 bandwidth far less than the eDRAM in the 360? It's the same issue Sony has trying to emulate PS2 games. Anything that exploits theDRAM will have issues.

I'll have to check the specs again, and I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure they could be fine with GDDR5 next Gen. It's the primary reason why everyone from me to digital foundry and other knowledgeable people here have said as long as MS (and Sony) use GDDR5, eDRAM is unnecessary next Gen.

Every 360 game has to exploit the eDRAM since the back buffer resides there, so they will have to do something about the bandwidth if they want BC.

Personally I'm not fully convinced the next Xbox will have BC, so who knows how it'll turn out.

 

[Cth]

I'm pretty sure back in 2010, Kinect only cost $55 to produce. Saying it's adding $100 to the price is hyperbole.

Given how much money they've made with the first version, it's easy to see why its a pack in.

 

[AlStrong]

I'll have to check the specs again, and I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure they could be fine with GDDR5 next Gen. It's the primary reason why everyone from me to digital foundry and other knowledgeable people here have said as long as MS (and Sony) use GDDR5, eDRAM is unnecessary next Gen.

Well, a 256-bit bus will give 192GB/s with 6.0Gb/s (highest manufacturer rated/power consuming at this time) RAM. Getting that high clock rates will impose a certain complexity to the physical I/O though, as we've seen on Tahiti/Kepler.

 

[BoobPhysics101]

I'll have to check the specs again, and I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure they could be fine with GDDR5 next Gen. It's the primary reason why everyone from me to digital foundry and other knowledgeable people here have said as long as MS (and Sony) use GDDR5, eDRAM is unnecessary next Gen.

Every 360 game has to exploit the eDRAM since the back buffer resides there, so they will have to do something about the bandwidth if they want BC.

Personally I'm not fully convinced the next Xbox will have BC, so who knows how it'll turn out.

Depends on the bus bandwidth. EDRAM had bandwidth of 240 GB/s. With a 384-bit memory bus like on the 7970, GDDR5 @ 7 Ghz would be hitting well over 320-340 GB/s bandwidth. EDRAM is completely unnecessary.

 

[specialguy]

Considering bandwidth isn't crippling gk104 (from smoking Tahiti), even usually at 5760X1080 eyefinity res, I expect they could make do with somewhat less.

 

[AlStrong]

Considering bandwidth isn't crippling gk104 (from smoking Tahiti), even usually at 5760X1080 eyefinity res, I expect they could make do with somewhat less.

Well, keep in mind that current games are... current.

edit: bottlenecks aren't always clear.

 

[AgentP]

I'll have to check the specs again, and I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure they could be fine with GDDR5 next Gen. It's the primary reason why everyone from me to digital foundry and other knowledgeable people here have said as long as MS (and Sony) use GDDR5, eDRAM is unnecessary next Gen.

Every 360 game has to exploit the eDRAM since the back buffer resides there, so they will have to do something about the bandwidth if they want BC.

Personally I'm not fully convinced the next Xbox will have BC, so who knows how it'll turn out.

I see 256-bit GDDR5 at around 130GB/s on some PC cards while the eDRAM is 256GB/s. But I assume it is not simple 1:1 math to emulate it.

 

[DarkChild]

Another pastebin post. Not the same guy, interestingly, pastebin "rumors" have been flying around lately. Probably bull...

That believe thing at the end really leads me to believe he is a troll.

 

[bigtroyjon]

http://pastebin.com/0cGdu4gP

Another pastebin post. Is this same guy with Durango and Orbis thing or?



That believe thing at the end really leads me to believe he is a troll.

already posted and discussed up above

 

[KageMaru]

Well, a 256-bit bus will give 192GB/s with 6.0Gb/s (highest manufacturer rated/power consuming at this time) RAM. Getting that high clock rates will impose a certain complexity to the physical I/O though, as we've seen on Tahiti/Kepler.

Hey thanks Al, now I wonder where I got ~220+GB/s bandwidth for GDDR5, maybe I just misread some figures somewhere.

Also I thought I read they reached 7Gb/s, no? Thought I saw some article when I was looking at memory months ago. I guess it doesn't really matter if complexity becomes an issue. =p

I guess that supports my assumption that we'll probably not see BC on the next xbox either.

I see 256-bit GDDR5 at around 130GB/s on some PC cards while the eDRAM is 256GB/s. But I assume it is not simple 1:1 math to emulate it.

I always thought that if you matched the bandwidth, that's all they needed on that end. You could be right though that it isn't that straight forward.

From what I understand, DX11 allows for more bandwidth efficient techniques, so developer can take better advantage at the bandwidth they do have.