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VICE Journalist Simon Ostrovsky Held Captive in Ukraine - Update: Released
- Thread starter Dr.Acula
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Gemüsepizza
Member
Any links/sources for that?
Now I'm imagining a Russian KGB agent a-la Archer with a comical accent trying to pass off as Simon.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Vice has been around for a looooong time. They got really bullish about internet and world news a few years back and they've been killing it with their gonzo-style docs.
IIRC somebody valued them over a billion dollars, which is absolutely insane for an outfit that pretty began as a crusty artsy zine.
XANDER CAGE
Member
Vice has existed for a long time. They used to be a zine I think. Their output is pretty hit or miss (they have a streak of real trash-ass "first-world person goes and marvels at how ~crazy~ some countries are" bullshit) but when they're on, they're on. Their Syria doc was great and they've done some really interesting reports on underworld figures like a famous Japanese cannibal, and an Indonesian hitman.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
I think those days are largely gone. Back in Vice's past they were pretty much a straight up Mondo-genre zine, so that was to be expected.
These days are too busy outright embarrassing mainstream media with their on-site reports. I hope they remain independent forever. Their combination of huge brass balls and the lack of shady/compromised backers is bringing some incredible journalism.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
I'm sure that Vice will get right on that...
As others have said, Vice has been around forever. It's just that they've become pretty respectable, hard hitting journalists in a world where traditional journalists are often too comfortable to go ask the hard questions. While the occasional story of theirs makes me roll my eyes, some of their recent documentaries are pretty much required viewing, and their coverage of the happenings in Ukraine are better than what most of the rest of the world media is managing.
Glad to hear that Simon is safe and unharmed.
MaritalWheat
Member
The main Vice site is still pretty shit sadly, lots of Buzzfeed quality trash articles. I became a recent fan thanks to their really fucking great world coverage, but that aspect of the site really diminishes the great doc/news work they do. IMO, news.vice.com should really just become their main image/landing page. The work they're doing there with things like the Ukraine coverage needs the most eyes possible. Love the HBO series as well.
Why should they be? They are getting paid to report "news" and the same handful of people own all main media. Ashamed all the way to the bank, I can't imagine that.
Vice/others like vice are the only sources of actual news in the world. They aren't driven by clicks or political agendas.
Kudos.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Motherboard is better than The Verge.
OH YES, I WENT THERE.
Vice co-founder Shane Smith has a net worth over $400 million and still goes to veritable hellholes like Afghanistan and Liberia to tell the news other outlets are too scared to report. That's all I need to know about what moves him.
Hari Seldon
Member
Agreed, it seems like there are two different divisions running things. One is great and one is trash.
Exactly, the proof is in their coverage. They are actual journalists. Not reporting the wrong news from the same AP source for 4 days.
BUNTING1243
Banned
You mean the Vice News site is embarrassing everyone else. 90% of what is on the main Vice.com site is still absolute trash.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
I not so secretly enjoy Vice.com, but then again, I like trashy zines.
I do agree that mixing both aspects of Vice is doing a huge disservice to their news coverage and other good properties like Motherboard, their tech site.
Vice was one of the original hipster magazines, with glasses wearing girls in leotards posing provocatively in pastel washed out Polaroid photos. And I remember them doing this around the year 2000. They were founded in Montreal in the 90s, so they were available free in a lot of places in Toronto as well. Sort of a thick glossy with lots and lots of ads, some tasteful nudity to generate circulation, and laddish articles about one night stands and drug binges to provide the minimum of content.
For all that, they actually created a remarkably good journalism department.
For all that, they actually created a remarkably good journalism department.
Can we take a step back, guys? Yeah, Vice is a lot edgier than mainstream news, and they report on a lot of stuff that goes under reported. But, it is a far cry from hard hitting journalism. In their series, they rarely ever show interviews where the reporter truly questions the subject or disagrees with him.
With that said, some of these guys do have balls. Especially the ones that went into the Mogadishu arms bazaar.
With that said, some of these guys do have balls. Especially the ones that went into the Mogadishu arms bazaar.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Sometimes is better to let the interviewee speak his mind. Otherwise you never get the truth. There is value in immersion journalism.
I'm on my phone so I didn't explain myself properly. Every time I watch Vice or read their site, I feel like a voyeur. I just sit and watch the show. With other documentaries and shows, I feel like more context is provided. I feel as though I'm being taught something rather than being shown something.
Edit: I still get a lot of enjoyment out of Vice, but it's annoying to see them praised like some sort of media revolutionaries
They're clearly doing something different. You've got every media outlet in the world interviewing the people in power in Ukraine, and it's nice seeing one outlet interviewing foot soldiers and old ladies for some context. I get a real sense of how confusing the situation is because the people Simon interviews largely have no idea what's going on themselves, and contradict people down the road.
Like when he went to that one city where separatists had taken over the local govt. building. He went to one of their meetings and they just filmed it. It was 50 people in a room just yelling at each other. Or when he was inside a police station as it was being raided. Watching the mob search for an officer they blamed for killing a demonstrator. Some calling for his execution, others trying to escort him out. Then showing the negotiations that led to allowing his ambulance to leave. Hearing the description of it is nothing like watching it unfold live.
As far as I know VICE is the only outlet doing this stuff and showing the "out takes" and not just packaging the sound bites. At least they're the only English speaking media doing it this way.
I wouldn't want to watch VICE's coverage of say, the US Mid-terms, but in Ukraine in this situation, the reporting is interesting.
And it's not just they style, full credit to Simon and the crew/editors. There was so much CNN Fox NBC ABC imbedded reporting in Afghanistan that was useless.
MaritalWheat
Member
I enjoy that style of reporting more to be honest. I don't want to be fed an interpretation of things - give me the raw source, make me aware about an issue on the ground, and let me draw my own conclusions and give me the motivation to seek out more information. Plus, they don't have to disagree with a subject openly - they definitely ask questions that put individuals on the spot though, where either a) they're exposed as being ridiculous or evil bastards or b) you can obviously tell they're lying through their teeth. They don't deal through PR channels or "official" press statements, they deal with the actual people on ground zero in the areas they cover, usually on both sides of the conflict - and that gives me way more of a sense of just what the hell is going on in these places than other coverage.
Edit: Also, basically what Dr. Acula said above.
ComputerMKII
Banned
I don't like how fucking slow the Vice website is. Otherwise, they provide amazing content/reports.
Also, the HBO series is funny - it's always the skinny, hipster-looking guy (Edit: Thomas Morton) who does the most hardcore/disgusting/dangerous stuff.
Also, the HBO series is funny - it's always the skinny, hipster-looking guy (Edit: Thomas Morton) who does the most hardcore/disgusting/dangerous stuff.
Its funny that VICE got an investment from Rupert Murdoc's 21st Century Fox. It was a business decision, but VICE is as far removed from FOX news as possible.
The founder has already been looking to make the company public. Rupert Murdoch is whispering all kinds of promises into Shane Smith's ear.
I agree and I think people also need to keep in mind that these aren't the "safe" interviews alot of major new outlets do I mean some of the places they go into are extremely dangerous. I mean I certainly wouldn't wanna travel into these areas and tell the person who may be a war lord or leader of a dangerous group they are full of shit.
I think that's the one thing I like the most about Vice they go just that bit deeper into a story. Its abit more dangerous and it steps over that line that most journalists won't pass. Glad he is safe though and I hope he keeps reporting there it is a good series so far.
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