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VICE: Legal pot in U.S. is hurting Mexican drug cartels.

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Protein

Banned
https://news.vice.com/article/legal-pot-in-the-us-is-crippling-mexican-cartels

Marijuana has accounted for nearly half of all total drug arrests in the US for the past 20 years, according to the FBI’s crime statistics. And according to the Department of Justice (DOJ), a large portion of the US illegal drug market is controlled directly by Mexican cartels. The DOJ’s National Drug Intelligence Center, which has since been shut down, found in 2011 that the top cartels controlled the majority of drug trade in marijuana, heroin, and methamphetamine in over 1,000 US cities.

Now, those cartels and their farmers complain that marijuana legalization is hurting their business. And some reports could suggest that the Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA) is more interested in helping to protect the Mexican cartels’ hold on the pot trade than in letting it dissipate.

Seven Mexican cartels have long battled for dominance of the US illegal drug market: Sinaloa, Los Zetas, Gulf, Juarez, Knights Templar, La Familia, and Tijuana. While some smaller cartels operate only along border regions in the Southwest and Southeast, giant cartels like Sinaloa have a presence on the streets of every single region.


The Washington Post reported on Tuesday that pot farmers in the Sinaloa region have stopped planting due to a massive drop in wholesale prices, from $100 per kilo down to only $25. One farmer is quoted as saying: “It’s not worth it anymore. I wish the Americans would stop with this legalization.”

VICE News talked to retired federal agent Terry Nelson, a former field level commander who worked to prevent drugs from crossing the southern border. Nelson said that before medical marijuana and state legalization in Washington and Colorado, about 10 million pounds of pot were grown in the US every year. But 40 million pounds came from Mexico.

Exact numbers on illegal drug trafficking are always hard to pin down, due to the black market nature of distribution and sales.

“Is it hurting the cartels? Yes. The cartels are criminal organizations that were making as much as 35-40 percent of their income from marijuana,” Nelson said, “They aren’t able to move as much cannabis inside the US now.”


In 2012, a study by the Mexican Competitiveness Institute found that US state legalization would cut into cartel business and take over about 30 percent of their market.

Former DEA senior intelligence specialist Sean Dunagan told VICE News that, although it’s too early to verify the numbers: “Anything to establish a regulated legal market will necessarily cut into those profits. And it won’t be a viable business for the Mexican cartels — the same way bootleggers disappeared after prohibition fell.”

DEA chief of operations James Capra told senators this January that legalization "scares us" and is "reckless and irresponsible." And the agency is continuing to crack down on marijuana.

Given the DEA’s historic relationship with the Sinaloa cartel, and the agency’s fury over legalized marijuana, it almost seems like the DEA wants to crush the legal weed market in order to protect the interests of their cartel friends. Almost.


“The DEA doesn’t want the drug war to end,” said Nelson, when asked about a possible connection between the agency’s hatred of legal pot and its buddies in Sinaloa. “If it ends, they don’t get their toys and their budgets. Once it ends, they aren’t going to have the kind of influence in foreign government. I’m not a conspiracy theorist, but where there’s smoke there’s probably fire.”



DEA and Sinaloa: A Mutually Beneficial Relationship
The Sinaloa cartel came to prominence in January when the “Fast and Furious” scandal surfaced, in which it was revealed that DEA agents ignored Sinaloa drug shipments and essentially granted immunity to cartel criminals in exchange for information.

The decade long relationship between Sinaloa and the DEA was detailed in the court testimony of Jesus Vicente Zambada-Niebla, also known as “El Mayito.” El Mayito, son of Sinaloa leader Ismael “El Mayo” Zambada, told a Chicago court that DEA agents offered him deals in exchange for ratting on rival cartels and Colombian drug lords.

In addition, the lawyer for Sinaloa cartel, Humberto Loya-Castro, told El Universal that DEA agents promised not to prosecute Joaquin “El Chapo” Guzman Loera, whose high-profile arrest earlier this year by Mexican authorities came as a shock to many.


A 2011 letter from DEA head Michele Leonhart in response to an investigation by the federal oversight committee severely downplayed the agency’s connection to Fast and Furious, stating that it was mainly an operation by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF) that the Phoenix DEA office assisted. El Mayito’s testimony tells a far different story.

Dunagan was stationed in Mexico for two years working on DEA operations. He didn’t see an obvious connection between the Fast and Furious and the DEA’s US pot crackdown, but he did say that handling informants is “a really messy business.”

“There is a temptation sometimes to prioritize a certain cartel or informant,” Dunagan said. “And cartels know that. They exploit the relationship to provide information on their competitors. It creates these perverse incentives — you are investigating what your informant is telling you, not what they are doing.”



DEA Versus Legalized and Medical Marijuana
At a Congressional Hearing on drug policy on April 2, Leonhart and her supporters announced their opposition to both the DOJ and Obama regarding marijuana policy, promising to continue to treat medical and recreational marijuana as a Schedule I illegal drug under federal law despite state legalization in Colorado and Washington.

The fact that pot remains on the federal list of high-priority illegal drugs has complicated state legalization, to say the least. Dunagan said that from a DEA perspective, even marijuana in a state that has legalized it is still illegal under federal law.

“So there’s no such thing as a legal marijuana business,” Dunagan said. “Technically, a DEA agent could still walk into any marijuana dispensary in Colorado and seize the money, and arrest everyone.”



So why doesn’t the DEA rush into the Rocky Mountain state and bust everyone? Because the president doesn’t want them to. Sort of.

Obama has been called “schizophrenic” by Congress in regards to his waffling policy on marijuana. In January, the president told the New Yorker it was “important for [legalization] to go forward” in Washington and Colorado.

“Why, as a matter of policy, they continue to pursue it is another question. I think it’s ideological. The majority of the agency perceives it as a moral crusade: drugs are bad, and it’s my duty to stop them,” said Dunagan, who now works with Law Enforcement Against Prohibition, a non-profit association of criminal justice professionals that oppose the drug war and favor legalization.


Another way the DEA tries to shut down legal marijuana dispensaries, and medical marijuana clinics, is through the banks. While large banks like HSBC and Wachovia have gotten away with laundering billions in cartel drug money, famously referred to as “too big to jail” by Attorney General Eric Holder, banks have been meticulously instructed by the DEA not to work with any kind of marijuana facility.

Holder recanted that statement just yesterday, explaining that the DOJ is prosecuting two European banks for tax evasion. HSBC paid the government $1.9 billion to avoid criminal charges in 2012.

That’s pennies compared to what the US spends on the drug war. According to the Drug Policy Alliance, we spend $51 billion per year fighting illegal drugs. A 2010 study by Harvard economist Jeffrey Miron found that not only would the US save tremendous amounts of money were it to end drug prohibition, legalizing could bring in an additional $46.7 billion in yearly tax revenue.

“We’ve spent 1.3 trillion since 1972 on the drug war. What have we gotten for that? Drugs are cheaper and easier to get than ever before,” Nelson told VICE News.


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casmith07

Member
I wrote a policy paper on this in law school, but didn't turn it in or seek to get it published because it was laughed off as "outlandish."

Hmm.
 

casmith07

Member
They'll probably turn to violence. Not good.

No. They have already turned to money laundering and logistical racketeering in contracting/construction businesses in Mexico. Skimming money off of development and resource management.
 

Damaniel

Banned
I find it hard to believe that legalization in two states have dented the cartels all that much. Legalization across the country would absolutely cripple them, though. All the more reason to legalize it everywhere, ASAP.
 

BigDug13

Member
I find it hard to believe that legalization in two states have dented the cartels all that much. Legalization across the country would absolutely cripple them, though. All the more reason to legalize it everywhere, ASAP.

Well the states who vote to legalize are most likely the states that like it the most, so these were probably some of marijuana's biggest user states.
 

Abounder

Banned
When it comes to the idea of legalization increasing violence I wonder if that coincides with Mexican citizens taking up arms against the cartel (like those articles posted on neogaf a few months back).

Anyway smoke 'em if you got 'em
 
Yeah fuck the DEA. Motherfuckers are just like the CIA in fucking over countries and siding with and creating dictators and the scum of the earth.
 

Kettch

Member
The problem with the cartels is the vast amount of funding they have. Allowing them to purchase weaponry, manpower and bribes. Cutting that off, which legalizing marijuana would go a long way toward achieving, is the first step toward a solution.
 
Another way the DEA tries to shut down legal marijuana dispensaries, and medical marijuana clinics, is through the banks. While large banks like HSBC and Wachovia have gotten away with laundering billions in cartel drug money, famously referred to as “too big to jail” by Attorney General Eric Holder, banks have been meticulously instructed by the DEA not to work with any kind of marijuana facility.

What a fucking joke.
 

G.ZZZ

Member
But now they'll kidnap ppl guise! They'll kill! Not like they buy weapons and got power because of drug trafficking in the first place, and it's unlikely that decreasing that economical power would decrease in any way their political power over the region.


/sarcasm

Fuck all the anti-legalization guys, scum of the earth that only want mafia cartels to prosper in the name of brainwashing by politicians who themselves were "blessed" by said cartels.
 

ezrarh

Member
But now they'll kidnap ppl guise! They'll kill! Not like they buy weapons and got power because of drug trafficking in the first place, and it's unlikely that decreasing that economical power would decrease in any way their political power over the region.


/sarcasm

Fuck all the anti-legalization guys, scum of the earth that only want mafia cartels to prosper in the name of brainwashing by politicians who themselves were "blessed" by said cartels.


I had an argument with a former coworker who also happened to be my boss of sorts. Some people think that if you legalize drugs, that the net benefit is 0 because the cartels will continue on with other crimes. People don't realize how profitable the marijuana business is for these guys and money is a big source of their power. Without money, less guns, less bribes, less manpower and less influence.
 

zma1013

Member
I just don't see any reason why a drug like marijuana, that seemingly isn't any worse than alcohol or cigarettes, isn't allowed throughout the entire country. As long as it's regulated like any other food or drug and the health warnings are clearly spelled out to everyone, I just can't see why one thing is allowed when another similar thing isn't. The whole illegal stance on marijuana is hypocritical.
 

Protein

Banned
But now they'll kidnap ppl guise! They'll kill! Not like they buy weapons and got power because of drug trafficking in the first place, and it's unlikely that decreasing that economical power would decrease in any way their political power over the region.


/sarcasm

Fuck all the anti-legalization guys, scum of the earth that only want mafia cartels to prosper in the name of brainwashing by politicians who themselves were "blessed" by said cartels.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-henry-sterry/mexican-drug-lord-officia_b_179596.html

Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman Loera reported head of the Sinaloa cartel in Mexico, ranked 701st on Forbes' yearly report of the wealthiest men alive, and worth an estimated $1 billion, today officially thanked United States politicians for making sure that drugs remain illegal. According to one of his closest confidants, he said, "I couldn't have gotten so stinking rich without George Bush, George Bush Jr., Ronald Reagan, even El Presidente Obama, none of them have the cajones to stand up to all the big money that wants to keep this stuff illegal. From the bottom of my heart, I want to say, Gracias amigos, I owe my whole empire to you."

"Whoever came up with this whole War on Drugs," one of his lieutenants reports he said, "I would like to kiss him on the lips and shake his hand and buy him dinner with caviar and champagne. The War on Drugs is the greatest thing that ever happened to me, and the day they decide to end that war, will be a sad one for me and all of my closest friends. And if you don't believe me, ask those guys whose heads showed up in the ice chests."
 

explodet

Member
They could always diversify, like one cartel has:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/03/17/cartel-dealing-iron-ore/6512167/
LAZARO CARDENAS, Mexico (AP) — Forget crystal meth. The pseudo-religious Knights Templar drug cartel in western Mexico has diversified to the point that drug trafficking doesn't even rank among its top sources of income.

The cartel counts illegal mining, logging and extortion as its biggest moneymakers, said Alfredo Castillo, the Mexican government's special envoy sent to restore the rule of law in Michoacan, the state controlled by the Knights Templar the last several years.

Iron ore "is their principle source of income," Castillo told the Associated Press. "They're charging $15 (a metric ton) for the process, from extraction to transport, processing, storage, permits and finally export." While it's long been known that Mexican cartels engage in other types of criminal activity, including trafficking of people and pirated goods, this is the government's first official acknowledgement that a major organized crime group has moved beyond drugs. The Knights Templar and its predecessor, La Familia, started out as major producers and transporters of methamphetamine.

The implications are enormous that organized crime in general in Mexico stands to diversify and become even more entrenched.
 

Protein

Banned
lol at cartels getting into commodities markets.

I know this is anecdotal evidence, but I've seen a huge surge of DVD piracy in my area (near the border) lately that local law enforcement have been cracking down on. It has been linked to organized crime.


Edit: I think there was even a story similar to this:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...iracy-business/2011/05/28/AG93GLEH_story.html


Will pirate 480p quality Game of Thrones boxsets for food. - Cartel
 

Somnid

Member
This article would have more worth without the DEA conspiracy theories. Anyway, the war on drugs is the entire reason the DEA exists, if the DEA was for legalization it wouldn't exist.
 

mantidor

Member
They'll probably turn to violence. Not good.

Nice. Too bad Kidnapping in Mexico are gonna sky rocket.

Their bottom line is being affected, they will simply not be as effective as before without such massive resources. Robbery, kidnappings and overall crime requires resources: arms, hiring people, location, transportation, etc. Trust me violence will scale down.

This is a very good thing, legalize it all. Cocaine next.
 
I know this is anecdotal evidence, but I've seen a huge surge of DVD piracy in my area (near the border) lately that local law enforcement have been cracking down on. It has been linked to organized crime.


Edit: I think there was even a story similar to this:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...iracy-business/2011/05/28/AG93GLEH_story.html


Will pirate 480p quality Game of Thrones boxsets for food. - Cartel


I want my game of thrones in HD assholes!!!

On the real, my company deals with the metals commodities markets. A large portion of our customer base are federal contractors. We've recently had to prove that our metals are sourced from legal means for our manufacturing. I'm curious where they're selling these metals too.
 

f0lken

Member
Maybe you meant limes? because limes are stupidly expensive now.

Yes, those.

And people who say thay they are going to be more violent or starting to kidnap people, is not like they are not doing it right now, cartels don't leave any money on the table thatthey can get, they have control of legal bussiness because they scared the shit out of their previous owners and now their bussiness are cartel controlled. So any thing that makes them lose power is a good thing
 

VoxPop

Member
I remember reading about the Sinaloa's insane underground drug trafficking tunnels. Costs about 2M to make and gets shut down quicker than a GAFer at a Victoria's Secret Fashion Show. But a couple of hours of it working nets them hundreds of millions of dollars so they could risk making as many as they want.
 

Protein

Banned
Their bottom line is being affected, they will simply not be as effective as before without such massive resources. Robbery, kidnappings and overall crime requires resources: arms, hiring people, location, transportation, etc. Trust me violence will scale down.

This is a very good thing, legalize it all. Cocaine next.
I've been saying it for years like some senile old man waving his cane, legal marijuana will eat into organized crime profits. Besides, it's not like anything bad can come from legal weed. For one we can stop feeding the private prison monster and turning non-violent criminals into actual criminals.

That and I prefer corporations distribute it and the government regulate it rather than a bunch of psychos that behead people regularly.
 

kirblar

Member
I wrote a policy paper on this in law school, but didn't turn it in or seek to get it published because it was laughed off as "outlandish."

Hmm.
You should have submitted it to the economics department. They would have immediately said you were right.
 
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